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post #31 of 186 Old 07-14-2014, 03:43 PM
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hold on! I just saw this unit being sold in France for $500 euro and from HK for $611 USD.

That changes the ball game to me..

I can only assume the NZ numbers were a mistake.

This squarely puts this in W1070 competition territory.

However, if this optoma has the same throw ratio as the others, it won't work in my setting.

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post #32 of 186 Old 07-14-2014, 05:28 PM
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in chinese websites it is a little cheaper than Optoma HD25e and a little more expensive than W1070
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post #33 of 186 Old 07-14-2014, 06:31 PM
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OPTOMA HD50 New full hd 3D Ready entry level projector

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Originally Posted by mishari84 View Post
in chinese websites it is a little cheaper than Optoma HD25e and a little more expensive than W1070

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Originally Posted by jkirby View Post
hold on! I just saw this unit being sold in France for $500 euro and from HK for $611 USD.

I can only assume the NZ numbers were a mistake.


Australian and NZ pricing is always very high; so if that pricing you're reporting is accurate - and reflected the same locally - then I see this as potentially (and finally!) being an actual contender to the W1070/W1070+

The proper RGB/RGB color wheel (with a realistic brightness rating); the lens shift; MHL support; RF 3D - it could add up to a nice package.

I too share some optimism here... Some solid competition is an absolutely good thing. And it's long overdue, to be honest.
That is, as long as it doesn't price itself out of the local market by being too expensive to actually compete locally.

Looking forward to official US pricing - and some reviews by the respected critics in this industry.

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post #34 of 186 Old 07-14-2014, 06:35 PM
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yeah- I just wish it had a shorter throw... oh well.
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post #35 of 186 Old 07-14-2014, 06:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkirby View Post
yeah- I just wish it had a shorter throw... oh well.

Assuming the already shortish-throw W1070 doesn't work for you - one word: W1080ST.

We're not at a point in the market where a purchase now would be all-that-easily regretted in a few months. And it's PQ will still rival the upcoming models for some time to come. Consider it

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post #36 of 186 Old 07-14-2014, 09:25 PM
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post #37 of 186 Old 07-15-2014, 05:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kreeturez View Post
Assuming the already shortish-throw W1070 doesn't work for you - one word: W1080ST.

We're not at a point in the market where a purchase now would be all-that-easily regretted in a few months. And it's PQ will still rival the upcoming models for some time to come. Consider it
Hah! I meant I wish the Optoma had a shorter throw. The 1070 is perfect for my room. I need a 11' throw for a 120" screen which the 1070 does perfectly. The optoma would have to be at least 3 feet farther back to give me the same picture, which is really not feasible. So no matter how nice this new optoma is over the benq, it won't be an option for me.
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post #38 of 186 Old 07-15-2014, 05:59 AM
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OPTOMA HD50 New full hd 3D Ready entry level projector

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Originally Posted by jkirby View Post
Hah! I meant I wish the Optoma had a shorter throw. The 1070 is perfect for my room. I need a 11' throw for a 120" screen which the 1070 does perfectly. The optoma would have to be at least 3 feet farther back to give me the same picture, which is really not feasible. So no matter how nice this new optoma is over the benq, it won't be an option for me.

Then consider the W1070+ which is pretty similar to this one features-wise and is based on a proven model.
Or, be impatient and just get a W1070: which, like I said above, will still end up looking pretty similar, PQ-wise...

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post #39 of 186 Old 07-15-2014, 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by AV_Integrated View Post
Stop reading the specs! The 131 isn't close to as bright as this will be when actually calibrated and delivering decent color output. Much like the W1070, the use of a RGB/RGB color wheel ends up delivering a full color image that is far brighter and more accurate than the 131, 25e, or 25-LV models. This projector may very well be worth owning, but the price tag and image quality really need to deliver to prove itself to be better than the W1070, and perhaps even the Sony 40ES (considering the price).
I don't know, even on eco mode the HD131xe is a light cannon and the colors absolutely pop already. I wouldn't want mine to be any brighter unless I was going to use it in a fully lit room.
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post #40 of 186 Old 07-15-2014, 12:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Blindman0v0 View Post
I don't know, even on eco mode the HD131xe is a light cannon and the colors absolutely pop already. I wouldn't want mine to be any brighter unless I was going to use it in a fully lit room.
Depends on your screen size, what settings you have it at, etc. Overall, the W1070 produces a image that is more saturated with accurate colors, with lower image noise, than the HD131 is capable of delivering. This is what the reviews show, and while you may be happy with the 131, I just don't know why anyone would pick it over the W1070 considering the reviews that are out which compare them. Certainly the 131 is a solid model, and the use of RF 3D is a perk. The throw distance being quite different certainly works better for some people as well, which are all valid reasons. But, if you have to choose one or the other, then the W1070 consistently wins in head-to-head image quality evaluations.

This is why there is a HD50, and if the price is in the $1,000 range, then it will definitely offer up a serious piece of competition for the W1070, which is long overdue, and hopefully will help propel BenQ to make some solid improvements to the W1070 such as adding RF 3D, and maybe a different lens option. Or perhaps getting a model with significant lens shift and more zoom range out on the market for closer to Epson 8345 pricing.

But, 2x color wheels should not be put out by these manufacturers. They look good, but there is better looking out there for the same money.

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post #41 of 186 Old 07-16-2014, 07:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AV_Integrated View Post
Depends on your screen size, what settings you have it at, etc. Overall, the W1070 produces a image that is more saturated with accurate colors, with lower image noise, than the HD131 is capable of delivering. This is what the reviews show, and while you may be happy with the 131, I just don't know why anyone would pick it over the W1070 considering the reviews that are out which compare them. Certainly the 131 is a solid model, and the use of RF 3D is a perk. The throw distance being quite different certainly works better for some people as well, which are all valid reasons. But, if you have to choose one or the other, then the W1070 consistently wins in head-to-head image quality evaluations.

This is why there is a HD50, and if the price is in the $1,000 range, then it will definitely offer up a serious piece of competition for the W1070, which is long overdue, and hopefully will help propel BenQ to make some solid improvements to the W1070 such as adding RF 3D, and maybe a different lens option. Or perhaps getting a model with significant lens shift and more zoom range out on the market for closer to Epson 8345 pricing.

But, 2x color wheels should not be put out by these manufacturers. They look good, but there is better looking out there for the same money.
AV_Integrated, what reviews? The ProjectorReviews.com review, IIRC, was done with relatively high BrilliantColor settings (5 to 10), which would lead to rather distorted colors. Lower BrilliantColor settings are not bad color-wise, and I haven't seen anyone review with those. Yes, it gives up brightness, but I have a very bright image on a HD25e on a 120 inch 1.1 gain screen with BrilliantColor set between 1 and 3 (brighter than the Epson 3010 it replaced). Since I haven't calibrated it, I won't go too far defending color accuracy, but I don't see anything that I've found to be unnatural looking.

Don't get me wrong, I recently recommended a W1070 to a friend looking for a <1,000 projector, and didn't even mention an Optoma, but I'm not sure I've seen a good review that tests the HD25e or the HD131X where a meter was put on it with BrilliantColor set off or low. I'm not quite sure it's the dog it's made out to be sometimes. I'd like to see a review or a good calibration done with BrilliantColor turned down. If you know of one, could you please direct me to it?

BTW, the reason I went with an Optoma was both because it matched my Epson 3010 projector mounting distance - not insurmountable, but it saved a step and a little hardware in mounting - and the brightness uniformity issues that were being reported for the W1070 when I was in the market. I myself probably would have gone with the W1070 if I knew those were resolved.

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post #42 of 186 Old 07-16-2014, 08:23 AM
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The 25e, even at lowest brilliantcolor settings, never totally stops using BC, testing has shown this much.
There are a couple calibration threads on avs using low/lowest BC settings that still bemoan the trouble of accuracy (I'd imagine in large because BC can't be fully disengaged on this model).

While turning BC low dims peak white to half its maximum, it can't lower black-level so it cuts contrast in half.

The w1070 with brilliantcolor on is still more color-balanced than the 25e at its lowest and the added brightness can be taken down with a $15 ND filter which retains the better contrast AND lowers black-level..which means the w1070 can have a lower black floor with higher contrast, less video noise, more uniform focus and better colors.

That all said, the 25e/131xe doesn't look bad. Without the NDF, the 25e/131xe has darker blacks (dimmer lamp) and quieter fans (dimmer lamp). It still beats the CR of the LCDs anywhere near its price and its throw worked well for your existing mount. Though the estar DLP link glasses have gotten very good results for the w1070, the ability to purchase and use RF with the Optoma is still mentioned as a wish on the Benq at times for those who enjoy a lot of 3D.
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post #43 of 186 Old 07-16-2014, 09:35 AM
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Definitely be clear on this... The 2x Optoma projectors don't look like garbage - they look very good. Without a side-by-side comparison, you may not ever know of any image or color issues. But, there is a reason that all the pricey ($3,000+) dedicated home theater DLP projectors use 6x RGB/RGB color wheels. Those wheels produce more accurate, and better colors with lower image noise.

There is a thread in this section which compares the 131 to the W1070 (I believe) and the person said that right away the quality jump to the W1070 was crystal clear when side-by-side. It's also the 'home theater' projector of choice (at that price range) for Projector Central and Projector Reviews.

Which doesn't at all take away from the Optoma models looking very good, just that there is a slightly better image for almost the exact same money. There are several very justifiable reasons not to go with the W1070, but 'brightness' is certainly not one of those reasons. At the end of the day, not having RBE issues, and wanting the throw distance is more than enough reason to go with Optoma IMO.
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post #44 of 186 Old 07-16-2014, 04:32 PM
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I'm not a big fan of colors getting so brilliant. I bought a new led tv last year and the color is so bright that I almost need sunglasses on to watch it and thats with it on eco mode.lol
I don't think I would want colors any brighter than what I have on my HD131xe. Everyone that sees it is just amazed at the colors. And I haven't had a color balancing issue like it seems some people have. When paying attention to colors, particularly skin color you have to pay attention to what kind of lights the scene is being filmed with. If outdoors the color should be very accurate but if its shot under flourescent lights the color will be off because fluorescent lights all have a color spectrum that the y operate in and the bright fluorescents always have more blue and the dimmer ones have more red. Mine seems to be pretty accurate most of the time.
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post #45 of 186 Old 07-16-2014, 06:57 PM
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OPTOMA HD50 New full hd 3D Ready entry level projector

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Originally Posted by Blindman0v0 View Post
I'm not a big fan of colors getting so brilliant. I bought a new led tv last year and the color is so bright that I almost need sunglasses on to watch it and thats with it on eco mode.lol

I don't think I would want colors any brighter than what I have on my HD131xe. Everyone that sees it is just amazed at the colors.


In that case, you'd probably be satisfied with a 1000 lumen projector.

Here's why: mating a low-powered (190W) lamp (which is dim by DLP standards) with a white/clear-segment-inclusive color-wheel results in a massive loss in effective brightness when color is displayed.



I'm an absolute non-fan of the Color Light Output standard (it's questionable marketing fanfare generated by Epson's 3LCD subsidiary), but if anything, it does demonstrate a point: if a DLP projector skimps on lamp power and substitutes it with a white segment, you're going to end up with lots of extra 'pure-white' brightness at the expense of every other color. Attempting to correct it (via BC) simply knocks the image's color palette off-balance by artificially boosting the image's brightness with extra 'white'.

Take a look at the Color Light Output (CLO) Buyer's Guide, which measures each projector that doesn't have a manufacturer-specified CLO. (Yes, a manufacturer could specify any CLO measurement and it'd make it's way into the guide. And yes, that does render it mighty questionable).

But the kicker is in the measurements themselves for various DLP projectors: the W1070, for example, measures 1,570 lumens of color brightness. The HD131xe? Barely a third of that. The HD25e's lamp and color wheel configuration are the same; so the results would be similar.



Since budget home-theater projectors have historically been fairly dim (1000 lumens or so) and perception of brightness is relative to the surroundings, a lot of people won't notice the difference unless they're compared side-by-side. And with BC set to low, you'll still get a decent image.



But if the room's throw-distance supports it - as stated in the posts above - rather pick an accurate, bright projector and dim it via Eco mode (or an ND filter) than pick a projector that doesn't have the capability of delivering true brightness on a color image to begin with. Surplus brightness can be reduced - but a lack thereof can't be created.



This is one of the reasons this new Optoma HD50 is appealing: they've finally gone with a color-accurate configuration (RGB/RGB color wheel; just like the W1070) at what will hopefully be an attractive price point.

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post #46 of 186 Old 07-16-2014, 09:20 PM
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Very interesting post, kreeturez. Your links were very useful. Gives me some things to consider. Probably will stick with the HD25e for a little while, but if 4k projectors are delayed, I may consider some RGBRGB options like the W1070 or a derivative prior to a 4k replacement.
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post #47 of 186 Old 07-16-2014, 11:36 PM
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Originally Posted by jkirby View Post
hold on! I just saw this unit being sold in France for $500 euro and from HK for $611 USD.

That changes the ball game to me..

I can only assume the NZ numbers were a mistake.

This squarely puts this in W1070 competition territory.

However, if this optoma has the same throw ratio as the others, it won't work in my setting.

where did you see for this price?
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post #48 of 186 Old 07-17-2014, 12:35 AM
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Originally Posted by kraine View Post
HDMI * 2 , for high quality digital input ( support the HDMI 1.4a Blu-ray 3Dformat)
For a moment there I though it would have an HDMI 2.0 input. It is time somebody released such a projector for 1080p60 3D gaming. But unfortunately this one will only have 1.4a HDMI.
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post #49 of 186 Old 07-17-2014, 02:29 AM
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Im testing one tomorrow, will report back with my findings.
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post #50 of 186 Old 07-17-2014, 06:36 AM
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where did you see for this price?
Not sure if we can post links to vendor sites. but here it is http://small-order.hktdc.com/small-o...8AQWY/2502861/
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post #51 of 186 Old 07-17-2014, 06:59 AM
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I'm seeing prices in countries like new Zealand that are around $3600 for the HD50, which while not exact would be closer to $3000 USD. http://www.rapalloav.co.nz/projectors/home-theatre-projectors/optoma-projectors/optoma-hd50-full-hd-3d-home-theatre-projector.html

Australian prices seem to be around $3200 which is also about $3000 USD. https://www.projectorscreens.com.au/...product_id=108

Why are so many people saying this projector might be in the $1000 USD range?

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post #52 of 186 Old 07-17-2014, 09:28 AM
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I'm seeing prices in countries like new Zealand that are around $3600 for the HD50, which while not exact would be closer to $3000 USD. http://www.rapalloav.co.nz/projectors/home-theatre-projectors/optoma-projectors/optoma-hd50-full-hd-3d-home-theatre-projector.html

Australian prices seem to be around $3200 which is also about $3000 USD. https://www.projectorscreens.com.au/...product_id=108

Why are so many people saying this projector might be in the $1000 USD range?
Because foreign pricing tends to be far higher, often twice as much, as US pricing. Australia for sure is typical of this.

By example: The Optoma HD25-LV is on that same website for about $2,800...
http://www.rapalloav.co.nz/projector...a-hd25-lv.html

In the USA, it's available for just over $1,000:
http://www.visualapex.com/Optoma/Pro...or-The=HD25-LV

With that direct type of comparison, $3,200 becomes $1,200 or less in the USA.

It's also where that model MUST land. The feature set it incorporates really lends itself as a competitor to the W1070, not to the Sony 40ES, or Epson 5030.

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post #53 of 186 Old 07-17-2014, 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by jkirby View Post
Not sure if we can post links to vendor sites. but here it is http://small-order.hktdc.com/small-o...8AQWY/2502861/

383usd a w1070??
http://small-order.hktdc.com/small-o...87DFI/2499404/

461usd a 1080st??
http://small-order.hktdc.com/small-o...87DFI/2499822/

even if it comes from hong kong, its weird.......
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post #54 of 186 Old 07-17-2014, 11:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AV_Integrated View Post
Because foreign pricing tends to be far higher, often twice as much, as US pricing. Australia for sure is typical of this.

By example: The Optoma HD25-LV is on that same website for about $2,800...
http://www.rapalloav.co.nz/projector...a-hd25-lv.html

In the USA, it's available for just over $1,000:
http://www.visualapex.com/Optoma/Pro...or-The=HD25-LV

With that direct type of comparison, $3,200 becomes $1,200 or less in the USA.

It's also where that model MUST land. The feature set it incorporates really lends itself as a competitor to the W1070, not to the Sony 40ES, or Epson 5030.
Thanks for the explanation. I assumed it was just a straight currency conversion. Well if PQ is as good as the specs and it's around $1200 then it may be the one to replace my Mitsubishi HC3800. It still looks great but I wouldn't mind replacing it later this year.

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post #55 of 186 Old 07-18-2014, 12:38 AM
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Im testing one tomorrow, will report back with my findings.
Looking forward to your report!
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post #56 of 186 Old 07-18-2014, 06:58 AM
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Quote:
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For a moment there I though it would have an HDMI 2.0 input. It is time somebody released such a projector for 1080p60 3D gaming. But unfortunately this one will only have 1.4a HDMI.
Do not know whether this is any help:

Specification states:-

Resolution:
Native 1920×1080(1080P). Support Computer signal up to WUXGA(1920x1200)/60Hz.


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post #57 of 186 Old 07-18-2014, 08:00 AM
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There's no question now it will have HDMI 1.4a. Thus 1080p60 in 3D can only be achieved in a SBS format. I don't believe we will see a 1080p60 frame packing projectors in 2014.
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post #58 of 186 Old 07-18-2014, 08:21 AM
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ok.. Can't seem to find any MSRP on this thing. The few dealers outside of US that are selling this range from HK's suspect $600 to NZ $2800! One site in France 'is expecting it to be around 1500 euros' but nothing conclusive.

I think pricing will be key for this unit. Even at $1200, that makes it more expensive than the Benq W1070.

Guess we will just have to wait and see when it gets officially announced and sold here in the USA.

(it still won't work with my room, but am curious about this unit anyhow. My last projector was an Optoma and I was very happy with it)
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post #59 of 186 Old 07-18-2014, 02:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kreeturez View Post
In that case, you'd probably be satisfied with a 1000 lumen projector.

Here's why: mating a low-powered (190W) lamp (which is dim by DLP standards) with a white/clear-segment-inclusive color-wheel results in a massive loss in effective brightness when color is displayed.



I'm an absolute non-fan of the Color Light Output standard (it's questionable marketing fanfare generated by Epson's 3LCD subsidiary), but if anything, it does demonstrate a point: if a DLP projector skimps on lamp power and substitutes it with a white segment, you're going to end up with lots of extra 'pure-white' brightness at the expense of every other color. Attempting to correct it (via BC) simply knocks the image's color palette off-balance by artificially boosting the image's brightness with extra 'white'.

Take a look at the Color Light Output (CLO) Buyer's Guide, which measures each projector that doesn't have a manufacturer-specified CLO. (Yes, a manufacturer could specify any CLO measurement and it'd make it's way into the guide. And yes, that does render it mighty questionable).

But the kicker is in the measurements themselves for various DLP projectors: the W1070, for example, measures 1,570 lumens of color brightness. The HD131xe? Barely a third of that. The HD25e's lamp and color wheel configuration are the same; so the results would be similar.



Since budget home-theater projectors have historically been fairly dim (1000 lumens or so) and perception of brightness is relative to the surroundings, a lot of people won't notice the difference unless they're compared side-by-side. And with BC set to low, you'll still get a decent image.



But if the room's throw-distance supports it - as stated in the posts above - rather pick an accurate, bright projector and dim it via Eco mode (or an ND filter) than pick a projector that doesn't have the capability of delivering true brightness on a color image to begin with. Surplus brightness can be reduced - but a lack thereof can't be created.



This is one of the reasons this new Optoma HD50 is appealing: they've finally gone with a color-accurate configuration (RGB/RGB color wheel; just like the W1070) at what will hopefully be an attractive price point.
I'm kind of curious why there hasn't been a class action lawsuit over all the misrepresentation of specs on all PJ's these days. The contrast numbers are not accurate, the lumens numbers are not accurate, color rating isn't accurate, mounting distances aren't accurate. I guess its because the industry just refuses to adopt a standardized set testing procedures to accurately represent their product. It makes it difficult when trying to make a choice on which projector to buy.Thats why these blogs are so important. Everyone gets to chime in with their experiences. And we get to hear from experts like yourself instead of these talking head idiots that represent the industry.
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post #60 of 186 Old 07-18-2014, 06:11 PM
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I looks to me that the HD50 will the intended to be priced perhaps more than a BenQ W1400/W1500 and below a W7500. I appears feature wise to be a couple of steps up from the entry level BenQ W1070 and perhaps also performs better. All just speculation at this point as we must wait until we get our hands on one to find out.

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