Epson 5010/6010 'Cinema filter Error', grinding noise, red light fix with pics - Page 3 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #61 of 148 Old 10-04-2015, 10:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CheapB View Post
I have a 5020UB with red blinks. I started to take the projector apart, Before I removed the optical part I got the idea to power the motor while it is still mounted to test if the gear would turn. I cut an USB cable and powered it from an USB power bank and connected the red and black to the terminals of the motor and the gear started to spin freely. reversed the polarity and it turned the other way.

Also I fired it up with the top off and I can see the cinema filter is moving before the red blinks are coming on. Here is a link to the video showing the movement. http://www.filedropper.com/2015-10-02151209

Can I safely assume my problem is something else?
@CheapB - you should host your videos you post online on youtube. I'm not going to download a video off a sketchy file sharing site ;-)

Check your Cinema Filter (CF) limit switches. Refer to the diagram in the post I linked to above for their location. These two switches tell the projector the CF is in position. Even if it's moving, if these switches have failed than the PJ will assume it hasn't moved. They're easy to check since the solder points are exposed. Just touch both points with a multimeter set to continuity or resistance, and they should show closed one way, and wide open the other (I forget offhand which way is which). If it's failed they'll either show constant resistance or always be open.

Otherwise, check your fans. As I describe in the posts I linked to above, dead fans can have the same symptoms. There are at 3 different fans. Make sure they are ALL running when the PJ is turned on. I have their locations labeled in my diagram.

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post #62 of 148 Old 10-04-2015, 11:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Protonus View Post
@CheapB - you should host your videos you post online on youtube. I'm not going to download a video off a sketchy file sharing site ;-)
Sorry about that - here is a YouTube link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1wH...ature=youtu.be

It looks like your posts are for the 8350 and not the 5020 or am I missing something?

Last edited by CheapB; 10-04-2015 at 11:33 AM.
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post #63 of 148 Old 10-05-2015, 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by CheapB View Post
Sorry about that - here is a YouTube link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1wH...ature=youtu.be

It looks like your posts are for the 8350 and not the 5020 or am I missing something?
From your video, yes, the CF is moving, however, I can only see one of the two limit switches in your video. It's clearly hitting one of them, but even if it's hitting the switches, if the switches are bad as I describe in my prior post, the PJ won't know that the CF is moving, as that's what these switches are for. So yes, still do what I mention, and check both your limit switches with a multimeter as described. And check ALL the fans as described as well.

Yes my posts are specifically about the 8350, however, the architecture, design, components, and so on of all these Epson 3 LCD PJ's are extremely similar to eachother. So much so that my diagram of component locations is still relevant to this older model. Advice for one model is nearly universal to all of them.

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post #64 of 148 Old 10-05-2015, 10:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Protonus View Post
From your video, yes, the CF is moving, however, I can only see one of the two limit switches in your video. It's clearly hitting one of them, but even if it's hitting the switches, if the switches are bad as I describe in my prior post, the PJ won't know that the CF is moving, as that's what these switches are for. So yes, still do what I mention, and check both your limit switches with a multimeter as described. And check ALL the fans as described as well.

Yes my posts are specifically about the 8350, however, the architecture, design, components, and so on of all these Epson 3 LCD PJ's are extremely similar to each other. So much so that my diagram of component locations is still relevant to this older model. Advice for one model is nearly universal to all of them.
Thanks for your detailed response. I checked both switches - they are open by default and close when activated. I did an extra test by taking out the switches and shorted the appropriate pins on the motherboard during boot and heard the motor reversed direction when shorting the pins of the first switch and stopped after shorting the 2nd set. The lens cover opens after.
I can feel airflow from the front grill, the lamp bay and in the back, so while I cant see the fans running I am concluding they are.

When I start it with the lamp in it comes on for 1/2 sec and then fans go to high and LEDs are blinking red. Fans stops after a min or so and LEDs continue to blink.
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post #65 of 148 Old 10-05-2015, 10:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CheapB View Post
Thanks for your detailed response. I checked both switches - they are open by default and close when activated. I did an extra test by taking out the switches and shorted the appropriate pins on the motherboard during boot and heard the motor reversed direction when shorting the pins of the first switch and stopped after shorting the 2nd set. The lens cover opens after.
I can feel airflow from the front grill, the lamp bay and in the back, so while I cant see the fans running I am concluding they are.

When I start it with the lamp in it comes on for 1/2 sec and then fans go to high and LEDs are blinking red. Fans stops after a min or so and LEDs continue to blink.
I would get visual confirmation on all of the fans. There are a few of them on most models there are at least 3. You can feel airflow without all of them working as the air paths are shared. You should be able to remove their covers to access them fairly easily if the motherboard is out. You can run the PJ with the motherboard loose so you can look at it running.

Also, does your model have an AutoIris issue? This might be an auto iris problem - does your auto iris move during startup? But the fans are much more likely to have failed so I would check them first.

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post #66 of 148 Old 10-05-2015, 11:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Protonus View Post
I would get visual confirmation on all of the fans. There are a few of them on most models there are at least 3. You can feel airflow without all of them working as the air paths are shared. You should be able to remove their covers to access them fairly easily if the motherboard is out. You can run the PJ with the motherboard loose so you can look at it running.

Also, does your model have an AutoIris issue? This might be an auto iris problem - does your auto iris move during startup? But the fans are much more likely to have failed so I would check them first.
Auto Iris opens and closes during boot. I found 3 fans and they are all running. One was concealed so I had to stick a finger in it to check :-). I am trying to trace back to the motherboard and there may be a 4th fan if I am reading it correctly. I have attached pics. That would be crazy difficult to get to..
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post #67 of 148 Old 10-15-2015, 09:56 PM
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Just an update:

I finally got around to doing the mod with the new motor.

Works great now. No grinding and has a different sound to it when it starts up.

For what its worth, all of my spindles had their teeth inside the motor. However, most of them were ground down, a couple were BAD.

Thanks again to this forum and OP for all the help!
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post #68 of 148 Old 10-20-2015, 04:57 PM
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Error codes via serial port

I have been working quite a bit on this issue over the last few weeks. For people who are not keen of taking their projector apart to check if the cinema filter (or some other specific part such as fans, lamp, iris) is in fact defect there is another option. This condition can be checked via the serial port. If there is interest in the process I can provide some directions - it is not complicated. I my case the cinema filter turned out to be fine on my 5020, so my issue is likely the main board :-(
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post #69 of 148 Old 10-20-2015, 07:07 PM
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If anyone else is interested in the OEM motor:


https://www.encompassparts.com/item/...or_Cf_Assy;_As


The gentleman that gave the OEM part # previously left out one digit.


Ed
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post #70 of 148 Old 10-31-2015, 12:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CheapB View Post
I have been working quite a bit on this issue over the last few weeks. For people who are not keen of taking their projector apart to check if the cinema filter (or some other specific part such as fans, lamp, iris) is in fact defect there is another option. This condition can be checked via the serial port. If there is interest in the process I can provide some directions - it is not complicated. I my case the cinema filter turned out to be fine on my 5020, so my issue is likely the main board :-(
That would be great! Can you show us how? It would be easier (and safer) than taking the projector apart, when you aren't confident that something won't get messed up. lol
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post #71 of 148 Old 10-31-2015, 01:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rasman1138 View Post
That would be great! Can you show us how? It would be easier (and safer) than taking the projector apart, when you aren't confident that something won't get messed up. lol
I would love to receive these instructions as well. I had the grinding noise, flashing red LED issue described in this thread last December (2014), and had Epson repair and return. In August I got two flashing red LEDs 4 seconds after the fan comes on (related post here in this thread), but the problem went away on its own. Last night it came back so Halloween movie tonight is cancelled
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post #72 of 148 Old 10-31-2015, 05:54 PM
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I found it difficult to buy this as the original supplier would not sell to anyone outside the USA (said it would breach the terms of their relationship with Epson).

If you Google "Epson 1452666" you will find a number of suppliers in various locations. I bought mine via Amazon and the price was good.



Quote:
Originally Posted by old corps View Post
If anyone else is interested in the OEM motor:


https://www.encompassparts.com/item/...or_Cf_Assy;_As


The gentleman that gave the OEM part # previously left out one digit.


Ed
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post #73 of 148 Old 10-31-2015, 09:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rasman1138 View Post
That would be great! Can you show us how? It would be easier (and safer) than taking the projector apart, when you aren't confident that something won't get messed up. lol
My 3010 has both red light blinking too (after fans run at very high speed during boot). If I can get diagnosis through the RS-232C port I would love to.

From a quick glance at the ESC/VP21 manual, it looks like diagnosis (well, the projector's view of diagnosis) is as simple as sending the ERR? command to the projector?

If so, for others, here are the answers to that command and what they mean:

00 :There is no error or the error is recovered
01 : Fan error
03 : Lamp failure at power on
04 : High internal temperature error
06 : Lamp error
07 : Open Lamp cover door error
08 : Cinema filter error
09 : Electric dual-layered capacitor is disconnected
0A : Auto iris error
0B : Subsystem Error
0C : Low air flow error
0D : Air filter air flow sensor error
0E : Power supply unit error (Ballast)
0F : Shutter error
10 : Cooling system error (peltiert element)
11 : Cooling system error (Pump)

As a reminder, communication is 9,600 bps, 8 bits, no parity, 1 stop bit. You'll need a null modem cable, or if you have a Global Caché device connected to your projector you can just telnet to it and issue commands.

Last edited by Dr. Crash; 10-31-2015 at 09:24 PM.
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post #74 of 148 Old 11-01-2015, 07:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Dr. Crash View Post
My 3010 has both red light blinking too (after fans run at very high speed during boot). If I can get diagnosis through the RS-232C port I would love to.

From a quick glance at the ESC/VP21 manual, it looks like diagnosis (well, the projector's view of diagnosis) is as simple as sending the ERR? command to the projector?

If so, for others, here are the answers to that command and what they mean:

00 :There is no error or the error is recovered
01 : Fan error
03 : Lamp failure at power on
04 : High internal temperature error
06 : Lamp error
07 : Open Lamp cover door error
08 : Cinema filter error
09 : Electric dual-layered capacitor is disconnected
0A : Auto iris error
0B : Subsystem Error
0C : Low air flow error
0D : Air filter air flow sensor error
0E : Power supply unit error (Ballast)
0F : Shutter error
10 : Cooling system error (peltiert element)
11 : Cooling system error (Pump)

As a reminder, communication is 9,600 bps, 8 bits, no parity, 1 stop bit. You'll need a null modem cable, or if you have a Global Caché device connected to your projector you can just telnet to it and issue commands.
That is pretty much it. I was going to make a video of the setup i am using the pull the errors at some point. There list is not complete. I have one projector throwing error FF
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post #75 of 148 Old 11-08-2015, 12:42 PM
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I just got my repair estimate

I got my results from the repair depot today. Apparently, it's the Main Board / Optical Engine Set after all. To replace it would cost a little shy of $3000 canadian to fix. %$^#! For a projector with under 2000 hours on it (3.5 years old), I basically have an expensive paperweight now.
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post #76 of 148 Old 11-08-2015, 01:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rasman1138 View Post
I got my results from the repair depot today. Apparently, it's the Main Board / Optical Engine Set after all. To replace it would cost a little shy of $3000 canadian to fix. %$^#! For a projector with under 2000 hours on it (3.5 years old), I basically have an expensive paperweight now.
I just bought a Newly Refurbished 5020 from Epson for $999.

I don't need it but I figured it was a Cheap ZERO hour spare.



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post #77 of 148 Old 11-23-2015, 08:49 AM
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Bypass CF check

My 2nd Epson just came down with RED led and I checked via serial it is throwing error code 08 which is the CF. I am not sure i am man enough to take everything apart, but I may be able to build a bypass of the check. This brings me the the question: If you had to chose between the CF filter being permanent on or permanent off - what would you do and why?
Thanks!

The goal is to be able to apply the bypass fix by only have to take the cover off.
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post #78 of 148 Old 11-29-2015, 03:48 PM
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post #79 of 148 Old 11-29-2015, 04:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CheapB View Post
My 2nd Epson just came down with RED led and I checked via serial it is throwing error code 08 which is the CF. I am not sure i am man enough to take everything apart, but I may be able to build a bypass of the check. This brings me the the question: If you had to chose between the CF filter being permanent on or permanent off - what would you do and why?
Thanks!

The goal is to be able to apply the bypass fix by only have to take the cover off.
Upon further exploration I have determined the cinema filter is on in Cinema mode and off in most others - Living room, Dynamic etc. so I think it is best to keep the cinema filter on. 3D performance may suffer. Dynamic and Living room modes WILL suffer.

if you are comfortable taking your projector apart it is absolutely the best solution to replace the part and get a fully functional projector. If not - this is my thinking: Assuming the CF broke when the filter was completely on or completely off it should be possible to disconnect the motor and cheat the motherboard to think it have tested the CF. If I am right in this assumption (and able to make a fix) it should be possible to apply a fix that without dissemble anything except taking the cover off. If the CF is stuck in the middle - the motherboard need to come off to place the CF either completely on or completely off according to your preference.

Since my 5010 is up and running for the time being with a simple re-positioning and lubrication of the CF it will probably take some time, but the first parts have been ordered
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post #80 of 148 Old 12-01-2015, 04:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CheapB View Post
Upon further exploration I have determined the cinema filter is on in Cinema mode and off in most others - Living room, Dynamic etc. so I think it is best to keep the cinema filter on. 3D performance may suffer. Dynamic and Living room modes WILL suffer.

if you are comfortable taking your projector apart it is absolutely the best solution to replace the part and get a fully functional projector. If not - this is my thinking: Assuming the CF broke when the filter was completely on or completely off it should be possible to disconnect the motor and cheat the motherboard to think it have tested the CF. If I am right in this assumption (and able to make a fix) it should be possible to apply a fix that without dissemble anything except taking the cover off. If the CF is stuck in the middle - the motherboard need to come off to place the CF either completely on or completely off according to your preference.

Since my 5010 is up and running for the time being with a simple re-positioning and lubrication of the CF it will probably take some time, but the first parts have been ordered
CheapB... what lubricant did you use? Obviously you don't want something that will evaporate with the internal heat as it will risk settling in places like optics that would be a bad thing...
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post #81 of 148 Old 12-01-2015, 04:31 PM
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CheapB... what lubricant did you use? Obviously you don't want something that will evaporate with the internal heat as it will risk settling in places like optics that would be a bad thing...
I used a small amount of silicone-based lock lubricant. Didn't consider the heat aspect. I actually think the CF was stuck so I am not sure if the lubricant or the fact that I took it apart and put it back together did the trick.
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post #82 of 148 Old 12-01-2015, 05:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CheapB View Post
I used a small amount of silicone-based lock lubricant. Didn't consider the heat aspect. I actually think the CF was stuck so I am not sure if the lubricant or the fact that I took it apart and put it back together did the trick.
My guess regarding this problem is that the CF does get stuck and this causes the stripped cogs. Lubricating therefore would be very prudent preventative maintenance for everyone. Only question is what is the best lubricant?
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post #83 of 148 Old 12-01-2015, 06:31 PM
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My guess regarding this problem is that the CF does get stuck and this causes the stripped cogs. Lubricating therefore would be very prudent preventative maintenance for everyone. Only question is what is the best lubricant?
Agree. In my case I may just have been lucky that the projector shut down before stripping the cogs.
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post #84 of 148 Old 12-05-2015, 01:49 PM
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In my case (5020UB) there was no grinding associated with the projectors failure, but otherwise the symptoms are the same as described here.
I delivered it to the local (San Francisco/Bay Area) authorized Epson repair, who indicated they couldn't fix it and sent it off to Epson. I called them yesterday to check on progress, and was informed that Epson indicated, and I quote: "The cinema filter was damaged in the optical cable and therefor they would need to replace the optical cable which will be a charge of $1000 USD"

Is this just a miscommunication? The optical cable needs to be replaced?

They asked whether I wanted them to simply ship it back to me un-repaired.
I'm inclined to do that and simply replace the motor Cf Assy; does that sound reasonable?
I'm a little thrown off by the "need to replace the optical cable" quoted by Epson.


SLR-
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post #85 of 148 Old 12-07-2015, 06:33 AM
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Originally Posted by SuicidalLabRat View Post
In my case (5020UB) there was no grinding associated with the projectors failure, but otherwise the symptoms are the same as described here.
I delivered it to the local (San Francisco/Bay Area) authorized Epson repair, who indicated they couldn't fix it and sent it off to Epson. I called them yesterday to check on progress, and was informed that Epson indicated, and I quote: "The cinema filter was damaged in the optical cable and therefor they would need to replace the optical cable which will be a charge of $1000 USD"

Is this just a miscommunication? The optical cable needs to be replaced?

They asked whether I wanted them to simply ship it back to me un-repaired.
I'm inclined to do that and simply replace the motor Cf Assy; does that sound reasonable?
I'm a little thrown off by the "need to replace the optical cable" quoted by Epson.


SLR-
I would not spend $1000 on fixing an out of warranty projector.

To my knowledge the only connections from the CF filter is the motor and the 2 micro-switches. None of them are optical.

Are you comfortable with taking the cover off and do a few test when you get it back? if so I have a few ideas you can try out
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post #86 of 148 Old 12-07-2015, 10:57 AM
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@CheapB Ya, I'll be breaking it down when it arrives; any guidance much appreciated.
I'll likely post here once I have done a bit of diagnostics.


SLR-
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post #87 of 148 Old 12-07-2015, 01:10 PM
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@CheapB Ya, I'll be breaking it down when it arrives; any guidance much appreciated.
I'll likely post here once I have done a bit of diagnostics.


SLR-
Before you take anything apart make sure you actually have the projector throwing a CF error. you can see the list above. Please post back if you in fact get the CF code thrown on the serial port and we can check the motor and the micro switches w/o removing anything but the motherboard.
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post #88 of 148 Old 12-15-2015, 07:57 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CheapB View Post
I used a small amount of silicone-based lock lubricant. Didn't consider the heat aspect. I actually think the CF was stuck so I am not sure if the lubricant or the fact that I took it apart and put it back together did the trick.
Tbh I don't think it needs lube at all and you have to be very careful not to get any on the cinema filter.
I tried it with and without and it still moves perfectly freely without.
The answer is to set the clutch properly.

Also how would you propose to override the startup sequence? You would need a software hack to do this.
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post #89 of 148 Old 12-15-2015, 08:00 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuicidalLabRat View Post
In my case (5020UB) there was no grinding associated with the projectors failure, but otherwise the symptoms are the same as described here.
I delivered it to the local (San Francisco/Bay Area) authorized Epson repair, who indicated they couldn't fix it and sent it off to Epson. I called them yesterday to check on progress, and was informed that Epson indicated, and I quote: "The cinema filter was damaged in the optical cable and therefor they would need to replace the optical cable which will be a charge of $1000 USD"

Is this just a miscommunication? The optical cable needs to be replaced?

They asked whether I wanted them to simply ship it back to me un-repaired.
I'm inclined to do that and simply replace the motor Cf Assy; does that sound reasonable?
I'm a little thrown off by the "need to replace the optical cable" quoted by Epson.


SLR-
Are you sure they didn't say optical assembly?

Even then that's a load of bull because it isn't part of the optical assembly.
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post #90 of 148 Old 12-15-2015, 12:04 PM
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That was a direct quote. However, that is a quote of the local Epson certified repair facility "quoting" what Epson repair told them. As far as I know, its all a load of BS. There is no way for me to know if the local repair facility even shipped the device to Epson , let alone whether Epson notified them of the need for these specific repairs.

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