Epson 5010/6010 'Cinema filter Error', grinding noise, red light fix with pics - Page 4 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #91 of 148 Old 12-15-2015, 01:57 PM
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Can you explain what you mean by "set the clutch properly"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ashyt16 View Post
Tbh I don't think it needs lube at all and you have to be very careful not to get any on the cinema filter.
I tried it with and without and it still moves perfectly freely without.
The answer is to set the clutch properly.

Also how would you propose to override the startup sequence? You would need a software hack to do this.
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post #92 of 148 Old 12-15-2015, 05:19 PM
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I picked up my projector this afternoon. I fired it up at my office and it started fine. No errors thrown :/
When I took it in for servicing, it hadn't started successfully in five or six weeks.
Im guessing it will continue to work until I get it mounted back in the ceiling

SLR-
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post #93 of 148 Old 12-15-2015, 09:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gazzagazza View Post
Can you explain what you mean by "set the clutch properly"?
The motor for the cinema filter has a clutch which is often set too tight. This clutch should be set so it slips should the cinema filter encounter any undue resistance thus protecting the gearbox from damage(in theory).

Last edited by ashyt16; 12-17-2015 at 01:18 PM.
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post #94 of 148 Old 12-18-2015, 02:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ashyt16 View Post

Also how would you propose to override the startup sequence? You would need a software hack to do this.
That would obviously be the best option and considering the amount of issues people have with CF Epson should release a version of the FW with CF deleted an a ton of projectors would come back to life.

I dont think I have the abilities to hack the firmware so I was thinking of a hardware hack. I have ordered the parts I think I need - now I just need the time. I am confident I can make it by pas the CF check - I am just not sure if it is practical/cost efficient compared to replace the CF assembly.
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post #95 of 148 Old 12-18-2015, 03:28 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CheapB View Post
That would obviously be the best option and considering the amount of issues people have with CF Epson should release a version of the FW with CF deleted an a ton of projectors would come back to life.

I dont think I have the abilities to hack the firmware so I was thinking of a hardware hack. I have ordered the parts I think I need - now I just need the time. I am confident I can make it by pas the CF check - I am just not sure if it is practical/cost efficient compared to replace the CF assembly.
I have no doubt you have the ability to bypass the check using a hardware hack, but it begs the question is that any better than actually replacing the motor and gearbox with a better one?
I have had zero issues with the CF since doing the mod.

The stupidest thing Epson did was use that crappy gearbox of which they continue to do so in newer models. Why I ask? If WE can make a simple mod to fix it why can't Epson?
The other stupid thing is the unnecessary cycling of the cinema filter at every shutdown and start.
Once cinema mode is selected that should be it and there is no need to move the filter again unless the mode is changed. I mean it even cycles at startup even when cinema mode ISN'T activated. What's the point of that?
I agree that there should be an option to shut it off.

Good luck with your mod, keep us updated.
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post #96 of 148 Old 12-18-2015, 03:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ashyt16 View Post
I have no doubt you have the ability to bypass the check using a hardware hack, but it begs the question is that any better than actually replacing the motor and gearbox with a better one?
I have had zero issues with the CF since doing the mod.

The stupidest thing Epson did was use that crappy gearbox of which they continue to do so in newer models. Why I ask? If WE can make a simple mod to fix it why can't Epson?
The other stupid thing is the unnecessary cycling of the cinema filter at every shutdown and start.
Once cinema mode is selected that should be it and there is no need to move the filter again unless the mode is changed. I mean it even cycles at startup even when cinema mode ISN'T activated. What's the point of that?
I agree that there should be an option to shut it off.

Good luck with your mod, keep us updated.
I 100% agree the best solution is to fix it the right way as you describe. the only purpose of a hardware bypass would be to avoid taking the projector apart. the hardware bypass would only require removal of the cover and no other dis-assembly. Now if we could just get a FW that completely bypassed the CF we didnt have to deal with this nonsense :-) I typically stay in Cinema mode and to me that would be a reasonable limitation to get a few years more out of a projector. Obviously that would not work if the CF is stuck halfway and neither would my hardware hack.
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post #97 of 148 Old 12-18-2015, 03:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CheapB View Post
I 100% agree the best solution is to fix it the right way as you describe. the only purpose of a hardware bypass would be to avoid taking the projector apart. the hardware bypass would only require removal of the cover and no other dis-assembly. Now if we could just get a FW that completely bypassed the CF we didnt have to deal with this nonsense :-) I typically stay in Cinema mode and to me that would be a reasonable limitation to get a few years more out of a projector. Obviously that would not work if the CF is stuck halfway and neither would my hardware hack.
Fair enough, I'm quite re interested in your mod so would like to see it. Are you documenting the steps?

This could be accomplished electronically with a simple timer ic circuit that is driven by the motor output. This would drive the limit switches making the pj think the CF is moving when it's not. A manual override could be incorporated by using a simple 3 position switch mounted outside of the pj that could switch the motor output either to the timer ic(CF override mode) or back to normal mode so the CF mode could be changed.
Again no disassembly would be required, however obviously to switch between modes this would require a working CF in the first place.
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post #98 of 148 Old 12-18-2015, 04:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ashyt16 View Post
Fair enough, I'm quite re interested in your mod so would like to see it. Are you documenting the steps?

This could be accomplished electronically with a simple timer ic circuit that is driven by the motor output. This would drive the limit switches making the pj think the CF is moving when it's not. A manual override could be incorporated by using a simple 3 position switch mounted outside of the pj that could switch the motor output either to the timer ic(CF override mode) or back to normal mode so the CF mode could be changed.
Again no disassembly would be required, however obviously to switch between modes this would require a working CF in the first place.
I was actually thinking about using an ATMega and some Optocouplers. I have simulated the sequence manually and was able to bypass the CF test with the assembly disconnected so I know what needs to get done and in what sequence
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post #99 of 148 Old 12-18-2015, 04:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CheapB View Post
I was actually thinking about using an ATMega and some Optocouplers. I have simulated the sequence manually and was able to bypass the CF test with the assembly disconnected so I know what needs to get done and in what sequence
Is that what you are using for your hack?
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post #100 of 148 Old 12-18-2015, 05:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ashyt16 View Post
Is that what you are using for your hack?
I have only done it manually so far. I disconnected the CF assy and then manually closed the pins for the micro switches on the main board at the right time to avoid a CF error.

So my thinking was to have the motor voltage drive an input on the ATmega - either with an optocoupler or diodes to avoid frying it with negative voltage in the process - and then have 2 output pins that will each drive optocouplers to close the CF pins at the appropriate time.

I think the main challenge would be to source the connectors that will fit in the receptacle on the main board so I dont have to cut the wires to the motor and the micro switches
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post #101 of 148 Old 12-18-2015, 06:17 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CheapB View Post
I have only done it manually so far. I disconnected the CF assy and then manually closed the pins for the micro switches on the main board at the right time to avoid a CF error.

So my thinking was to have the motor voltage drive an input on the ATmega - either with an optocoupler or diodes to avoid frying it with negative voltage in the process - and then have 2 output pins that will each drive optocouplers to close the CF pins at the appropriate time.

I think the main challenge would be to source the connectors that will fit in the receptacle on the main board so I dont have to cut the wires to the motor and the micro switches
Seems like a workable solution or just a couple of 555ic's with inputs fed from the motor output through diodes for each switch.
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post #102 of 148 Old 12-18-2015, 06:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ashyt16 View Post
Seems like a workable solution or just a couple of 555ic's with inputs fed from the motor output through diodes for each switch.
555s are likely a simpler solution. I may have a tendency to over engineer things... I was actually considering to build a "thingy" that would be used as diagnostic by connecting it to the serial port of the projector. If the projector throws a CF error a LED will light up and you know CF is the cause of the error (or at lease the first error) . Then you pop off the cover, disconnect the CF motor and switches and plug in the thingy + power it from somewhere and you should be done assuming your CF is got stuck completely on or completely off.

I am doing this for fun as my projector is running again, but it would be nice to get a sense of # of projectors out there that has this issue and the owner is uncomfortable with the work associated with replacing the CF assy. Happy to share details if I turn out to be successful in the venture :-)
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post #103 of 148 Old 12-18-2015, 06:08 PM
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The part link on Philips site seems broken, can anyone point to an updated correct one?

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post #104 of 148 Old 12-23-2015, 10:44 AM
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Bump, can anyone please post the part number and where to order it from? My PJ is down off the ceiling and waiting for my buddy to fix, can't do anything without a replacement. THANKS!

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post #105 of 148 Old 02-11-2016, 10:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ashyt16 View Post
The motor for the cinema filter has a clutch which is often set too tight. This clutch should be set so it slips should the cinema filter encounter any undue resistance thus protecting the gearbox from damage(in theory).


By clutch you're referring to the small nut that compresses a spring?


I've discovered a slipping with the CF motor. I disassembled everything, including the motor. To discover the last gear inside the gearbox is what's slipping. It seems to be a friction fit to the spindle which is connected to this spring/nut/spindle. I was able to press the thing back together and tighten the nut (maybe a bad idea) to find things worked OK for about a day and now it slips again.


Before spending the money on getting a replacement, I wanted to check if anyone can tell me how exactly this should work so I can decide what I should be doing. From what I've seen the white gears shouldn't spin freely, there should be no slip. I thought I had this correct, but now it's slipping again.


FWIW the last gear (the one which is held onto the spindle holding the first white gear) is the only thing on that spindle inside the gearbox. I can't tell what keeps it from slipping on its own. I think I should try loosing the nut holding the spring and resetting the spindle. Any suggestions if anything sounds strange?




Also, is there any easy to access the motor assembly without removing the entire light system? I don't want to do that again if I can avoid it!
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post #106 of 148 Old 02-13-2016, 02:28 PM
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Anyone have knowledge of the inside of the Epson 1452666 CF motor? I'm not sure what I'm looking at is correct because I can't figure out what should be keeping the black gear, which is found inside the gearbox, from slipping down the spindle.


I've attached two pictures, the first shows the main drive spindle where the primary white gear is attached with the spring/nut tensioner. The second picture is of the interior of the gearbox. I'm not sure something isn't missing (maybe a spring) to hold the black gear from slipping off the spindle teeth and spinning freely. I think something needs to be holding that spring from moving down (or to the left in the image) and away from the fine teeth which are on the shaft near the grey assembly which the gear box attaches to.


Should there be something holding the gear on those teeth or that just be friction? If friction I may take some epoxy and try to narrow the inner diameter of the black gear to increase the grip on the spindle. Obviously if there's something missing it would be better to replace it or just find a new motor...
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post #107 of 148 Old 02-17-2016, 12:49 PM
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For anyone which has a similar issue with the black gear on the drive spindle slipping I found a fix which may work for others provided the interior of the black gear hasn't been stripped to wide.


Before the repair the black gear would fit snugly on the spindle without any slip, but when driven by the motor the gear could move slightly, become unseated and slips to causes the CF error.


I used some moldable high temp epoxy putty (JB Weld) to pack the interior of the gear then carefully seated the spindle in the gear and mounted it tight to the metal support of the gearbox. Let that cure overnight and in the morning I tried to twist the black gear to find the white gear I was holding would slip... AWESOME the fix and clutch now work!


I've tested 20 power cycles, and mode changes to confirm things will hold before going back to screw down everything. I suspect this will hold for a while. I will likely pick up a spare motor/gear box assembly but would like to go metal and find a similar gear ratio first, or may just get a spare Epson motor.


Of course things weren't perfect and I dropped a lamp lid and broke off one of the lock clips, so I need to dig up one of those somewhere.


Does anyone know if you can get spare of the clips which are used to lock down the ribbon cables for the LCDs? I think one of mine is broken and would like to replace if possible. The entire piece would be tough to remove and replace so hoping that moveable clip can be replaced. I've never tried to do something like that yet with those connectors.
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post #108 of 148 Old 04-01-2016, 11:55 PM
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Exclamation Warning! Warning! Warning!



WARNING!


As helpful and informative as this DIY is, there is one bit of incomplete/incorrect information that if followed exactly as it reads, is possible to destroy the logic board. I believe I did just that.

In step 2, the DIY reads:
Quote:
Next we need to remove the motherboard, firstly disconnecting all the connectors around the edges of the motherboard. Most will just pull out, but the the ones with flat ribbon cable have a special way of disconnecting. Basically The black piece needs to be carefully levered away from white part as you can see below. The same goes for the ones connected to the optical block.
No, it does NOT!

That is correct for the one small ribbon cable on the left side of the projector that connects to the onboard control panel. IT IS NOT CORRECT FOR THE THREE RIBBON CABLES WHICH CONNECT THE LCD PANELS TO THE LOGIC BOARD!!!


On those three connectors, the ribbon plugs into the black housing, and a small beige lever rotates up away from the board to release the cable. I would have guessed that if the DIY hadn't led me to second-guess myself and believe otherwise. I popped all three of those bars off the connector before I realized what had gone wrong. Unfortunately, they're impossible to reinstall without ruining either the bar or the connector. One of my small bars is broken in half because I was trying flex it to get it back into the housing, and one flange that the bar inserts into is broken on two other connectors.

I'll talk to a repair tech tomorrow, but I assume the projector is essentially destroyed at this point.

These are tiny pieces. Knowing what I know now, I consider that the only very risky part of the repair, and it absolutely should have been called out as a separate caution item.

Just wanted to warn anybody who pursues this DIY to be very careful with those ribbon connectors. They're both a latch, and they compress the spring pins onto the ribbon cable.

If anybody needs the Epson 1452666 Motor Assembly, I have a spare, and will likely have any other spare parts other than a logic board.

Cheers,
SC

I'm a Home Theater Enthusiast with GAS: Gadget Acquisition Syndrome.

Last edited by ecrabb; 05-03-2016 at 03:14 PM.
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post #109 of 148 Old 04-04-2016, 11:41 AM
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Followup to my earlier post.... The projector is back together with a brand new lamp and the cinema filter error is indeed resolved. Unfortunately without the little latches on the ribbon cable sockets, the connectors don't work and the result is an unwatchable picture. I've been unable to locate an 84-position FFC/FPC connector to buy a replacement latch. A colleague assumes it's either proprietary or Chinese contract and not sold as a part on the open market.

So... If anybody would happen to have a spare main board - either operative or inoperative - I'd be interested in buying it. I'm sure it's a long-shot. Maybe the projector was dropped, or the lamp exploded and destroyed the light engine. I don't know. Just throwing it out there.

Thanks,
SC

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post #110 of 148 Old 05-03-2016, 02:38 PM
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Epson 6010 CF

If you guys know where I can get the cinema filter please let me know, it appears that the glass itself shattered causing there to be a lodge.

I removed the glass and was also wondering if it would still function without the filter.
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post #111 of 148 Old 05-03-2016, 03:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m4712ix View Post
If you guys know where I can get the cinema filter please let me know, it appears that the glass itself shattered causing there to be a lodge.
I bought the Cinema Filter motor assembly from Encompass. I don't recall running into the CF assembly itself, but you could peruse their list to see if anything looks like it might be it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by m4712ix View Post
I removed the glass and was also wondering if it would still function without the filter.
There are two microswitches that the CF assembly hits. They serve as limit switches. The CF assembly has to be in there so it can move back and forth and hit those switches. If it's not in there, the projector will just generate a Cinema Filter error on startup.

I don't recall what the assembly looks like, but if the empty "frame" (without glass) can go in there, and it'll still operate mechanically, I think you'd be fine without the glass (albeit with higher black levels). If the glass itself is part of the structure, and it won't operate mechanically without the glass, then you'll need to replace the filter, whether with the original Epson part, or as a DIY with a piece of optical glass cut to the correct size.

My projector is still sitting on the shelf dead due to my disassembly mistake. I take it you were able to get yours apart without damaging the LCD ribbon connectors on the main board?

Cheers,
SC
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post #112 of 148 Old 05-07-2016, 01:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ecrabb View Post
I bought the Cinema Filter motor assembly from Encompass. I don't recall running into the CF assembly itself, but you could peruse their list to see if anything looks like it might be it.


I don't recall what the assembly looks like, but if the empty "frame" (without glass) can go in there, and it'll still operate mechanically, I think you'd be fine without the glass (albeit with higher black levels). If the glass itself is part of the structure, and it won't operate mechanically without the glass, then you'll need to replace the filter, whether with the original Epson part, or as a DIY with a piece of optical glass cut to the correct size.

My projector is still sitting on the shelf dead due to my disassembly mistake. I take it you were able to get yours apart without damaging the LCD ribbon connectors on the main board?

Cheers,
SC
okay so it worked without the glass in the cinema filter housing but I think glass has dropped into the motor housing below because it works upright but when i flip it upside down then it errors out and crashes.

since your's is toast, you wouldn't want to sell me that filter would you?? lol!

I was able to get by the ribbons no problem. I am always hesitant to mess with stuff like that but it wasn't a big deal. I did pull out the plastic black fasteners (not completely) before pulling the ribbon out which worked fine. Putting them back in is usually a slight challenge but nothing to sweat over. I actually had a harder time resetting the mainboard and getting the connectors to come through.
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post #113 of 148 Old 05-07-2016, 02:28 PM
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@ashyt16 - This is bad-ass, Bravo man!
Picture are displaying fine.
I have bookmarked this thread for possible future reference.
I agree thanks!
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post #114 of 148 Old 05-07-2016, 02:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WynsWrld98 View Post
My 6010 had cinema filter failure grinding at startup with flashing lughts specifically asked to have my unit repaired not get a refurb. They did it and so fast I had it back in exactly 1 week and they even put new lamp in it which it didn't even need. I compared serial number to verify it was my unit all good.
Did you ever have an issue with broken glass?
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post #115 of 148 Old 05-07-2016, 02:30 PM
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Parts Vendor

Sup dudes,

I just thought I would share this bit of awesomeness with you. Not sure if it was listed before. http://www.compassmicro.com/files/Po...ded%20diag.pdf
Is the full out exploded diagram of the 6010 with part numbers. If you call them and tell them the part # you need they should be able to get it for you. Its obviously compassmicro.com. I got this directly from Epson today. I'll let you know if I was able to order the part I needed.
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post #116 of 148 Old 05-09-2016, 08:18 AM
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Originally Posted by m4712ix View Post
Sup dudes,

I just thought I would share this bit of awesomeness with you. Not sure if it was listed before. http://www.compassmicro.com/files/Po...ded%20diag.pdf
Is the full out exploded diagram of the 6010 with part numbers. If you call them and tell them the part # you need they should be able to get it for you. Its obviously compassmicro.com. I got this directly from Epson today. I'll let you know if I was able to order the part I needed.
This ended up being a lost cause. They don't replace those nit gritty parts. They would require you to purchase the whole assembly that houses this part which in my case is $1899 ie...to much. Oh well, it was worth a shot.
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post #117 of 148 Old 01-04-2017, 03:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m4712ix View Post
This ended up being a lost cause. They don't replace those nit gritty parts. They would require you to purchase the whole assembly that houses this part which in my case is $1899 ie...to much. Oh well, it was worth a shot.
So, I found the cinema filter glass, but there are multiple available, not sure which one is correct for the 5010 / 6010:

1 - go to https://www.encompassparts.com

2 - search for 1508426, 1505568, 1452667, 1413710


I want to bite the bullet and buy the 1508426, not sure why the 145 ones are $10 more...
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post #118 of 148 Old 01-15-2017, 04:15 AM
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Glad to see this thread is still alive. My 6010 just went belly up. Most likely the CF filter gearbox but my failure "seems" a little different. When powered on I get a squeaky noise instead of the grinding noise of the dust cover opening (and the dust cover doesn't open). I then get the two red flashing lights. I'm going to try and read an error code via serial port as described in an earlier thread to see if it throws a CF error or a dust cover error.
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post #119 of 148 Old 01-15-2017, 10:24 AM
 
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Originally Posted by cfelicio View Post
So, I found the cinema filter glass, but there are multiple available, not sure which one is correct for the 5010 / 6010:

1 - go to https://www.encompassparts.com

2 - search for 1508426, 1505568, 1452667, 1413710


I want to bite the bullet and buy the 1508426, not sure why the 145 ones are $10 more...
Thank you! It's been hard finding that because they condensed "cinema filter" into "cf assembly" as a search term.

And please, tell us if 1508426 is indeed the correct part# for the cinema filter glass. The other models there seem to not have a projector associated with them in the description, so maybe it's a good idea to verify the actual part with Epson for your actual projector before ordering.

Last edited by RLBURNSIDE; 01-15-2017 at 11:11 AM.
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post #120 of 148 Old 01-16-2017, 10:44 AM
 
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Originally Posted by m4712ix View Post
Sup dudes,

I just thought I would share this bit of awesomeness with you. Not sure if it was listed before. http://www.compassmicro.com/files/Po...ded%20diag.pdf
Is the full out exploded diagram of the 6010 with part numbers. If you call them and tell them the part # you need they should be able to get it for you. Its obviously compassmicro.com. I got this directly from Epson today. I'll let you know if I was able to order the part I needed.
Thanks for this, but I'm trying to verify if part number 1508426 is actually the cinema filter glass itself, and looking at the exploded parts doesn't offer any clue because the part numbers are all different from expected. I can't find 1508426 in either the tw5200 (8350) nor the 6010 nor the 6040. All the parts in this exploded view start with B00...something and that's not right.
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