Epson 5010/6010 'Cinema filter Error', grinding noise, red light fix with pics - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 45 Old 07-19-2014, 04:09 AM - Thread Starter
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Epson 5010/6010 'Cinema filter Error', grinding noise, red light fix with pics

I have an Epson 5010, which had started making a grinding noise shortly after starting up or changing colour modes, this eventually led to an error on screen, "Error in the Epson cinema filter. For repairs contact your nearest Epson service provider"

However a few times I was able to continue using the PJ, but obviously something wasn't right. Shortly after this the PJ would power on, but wouldn't start up. The fan would come on very high speed for a few minutes then just shut down with the red lights blinking indicating an 'Internal error'

My PJ is out of warranty, so I decide to take matters into my own hands and see if I could find out what the problem was. I've had experience with stripping projectors down before, so here's what I did to fix the problem.


EDIT: The below mod only worked for a short while before the gear box failed again.
At the end of this post is a link to a post I made using a metal gear box.

It seems that the problem is related to the Cinema filter mechanism failing. It turns out the gearbox attached to the mechanism had developed a problem and this is what needed to be fixed.

1. First of all its best to remove the lamp. After this remove all the screws on the bottom of the PJ and at the rear.
Once this has been done the top case can be removed to reveal the motherboard and lens system. Also observe in the pic I had already removed the front panel, more on that later:



2. Next we need to remove the motherboard, firstly disconnecting all the connectors around the edges of the motherboard. Most will just pull out, but the the ones with flat ribbon cable have a special way of disconnecting. Basically The black piece needs to be carefully levered away from white part as you can see below. The same goes for the ones connected to the optical block.
Be very careful when removing the motherboard that these don't get snagged.





3. Here you can see the cinema filter assembly which we need to get to.



4. Remove the three screws circled then withdraw the Auto-Iris mechanism then remove the screws from the other parts circled and remove. Be sure to move the black wire for the temperature sensor out of the way.



5. Once these parts are removed the cinema filter can be carefully removed.



A pic of the Auto-Iris assembly:



6. With the filter removed we can see the motor and gearbox:



7. Next the front panel needs to removed, unfortunately I forgot to take a pic of this before I removed it, but basically there are a couple of screws on the top and some clips underneath. Once the screws are removed then it should just pull away with a bit of persuasion.

8. This will reveal the lens system, there are a couple of screws either side of it deep down that need to be removed.







You will notice there is a red area circled, this is a lever attached to the infared panel at the front of the PJ. This will need to be located properly when reassembling.

9. Now we need to remove the screws for the rest of the optical system so it can be withdrawn. There are 3 silver screws as circled:



10. Now we are ready to remove the optical assembly, but first we need to pull forward the door slider mechanism so it clears it. Observe the wires circled which need to be unwound to allow them to move.



11. We can now remove the whole optical assembly, just pull the whole thing up and out:

Topside:



Bottom:



As you can see the optical block is exposed so I decided to cover this to prevent dust getting in, also you can see the motor and gear box which needs to be removed:



12. Now to remove the motor unscrew the 2 black screws and pull off the motor assembly.




13. The screws to remove the gearbox are underneath, so to get to them first we need to remove the 2 screws circled then there are 2 tiny screws holding the gearbox case on.
After these are removed hold the gearbox case upside down and remove the rest of the assembly.



14. In my case the part that was causing the problem is arrowed as it was worn and had a missing tooth. I guess this was causing the gears to slip.



15. These things are tiny, I'm not surprised they fail considering how much torque the gearbox produces from the little motor.
here you can see the missing tooth:



16. Moving on now to the actual repair. Basically what I did was make a little metal gear using my dremel tool which I could attached to the damage part to not only repair it, but hopefully strenghthen it too.

To make the metal gear I cut out a piece of metal then ground it into a circle and laid this over the top of the plastic gear. I attached it to the gear using the tiny screws from the gear box.



I then proceeded to carefully and painstakingly create the teeth using the dremel attachment below. This is a wafer thing disc which I then ground the edges with a carborundum stone to a knife edge.








Sorry about the dirty fingers and nails, but I was in the middle of rebuilding an engine that week.

17. After grinding and making the teeth I made a mark on both the metal gear and the plastic gear so I knew how the 2 joined together.
To attach the metal gear I first ground down some of the plastic gear the same thickness as the metal gear, made both mating surfaces rough with sandpaper then attached it using super glue being careful to line the marks up, I also put a small watchmakers screwdriver through the middle hole of both to ensure they both aligned properly. I then left it to dry for a while.

18. Here is the finished product:





All that is left is to put it back in the gearbox and reassemble it. Before I did I put plenty of high temp grease inside the gearbox on the gears.

19. Finally just need to reassemble everything the same way it came apart. When reassembling the Cinema filter ensure that the filter goes between the 2 switches when putting this part back on. These switches are what determines the correct position of the filter at first start up when the filter is cycled:




I now have no problems and the cinema filter mechanism is as quiet as ever. Hopefully this helps others.

I know that some people may not want to or be able to repair the gearbox so I have posted links below where the part is available:

North America: http://www.buyphilipsparts.com/item/...or_Cf_Assy;_As

Europe:
http://www.gedat-spareparts.com/inde...tion=epsdetail

UK:
http://www.cxcommerce.com/pgProduct....666-Motor-Assy

Also there is a very handy exploded diagram which helps identify which part is which and goes where:
http://www.gedat-spareparts.com/ex/eh_tw9000.pdf

Hope this helps


EDIT: This mod only worked for a short while before the gear box failed again.
Below is a link to a post I made using a metal gear box.
Epson 5010/6010 'Cinema filter Error', grinding noise, red light fix with pics
jsil, Protonus, xplorar and 2 others like this.

Last edited by ashyt16; 01-02-2015 at 06:14 AM. Reason: Addition
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post #2 of 45 Old 07-19-2014, 06:40 PM
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Thanks for taking the time to document this daunting task.
If my grinding noise comes back, I'll know why.

2014
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post #3 of 45 Old 07-20-2014, 02:12 AM
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Thanks for sharing detailed repairing procedure. It seems a little difficult and complex to do this repair for average person. I don't know if I have good ability enough to do this repair or not? But, I still want to try when my pj cinema filter dead wholly.

BTW, your pics are depressed too small, not clear when zoom them out. Can you upload original or bigger size pics to somewhere cloud space and post the link? Thanks again.

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post #4 of 45 Old 07-20-2014, 11:03 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wei-wei View Post
Thanks for sharing detailed repairing procedure. It seems a little difficult and complex to do this repair for average person. I don't know if I have good ability enough to do this repair or not? But, I still want to try when my pj cinema filter dead wholly.

BTW, your pics are depressed too small, not clear when zoom them out. Can you upload original or bigger size pics to somewhere cloud space and post the link? Thanks again.
Not sure what you mean about the pics not being clear they look perfectly fine and clear enough here.
Unfortunately I can't upload them again. Took long enough to do this post as it is.
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post #5 of 45 Old 07-20-2014, 01:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ashyt16 View Post
Not sure what you mean about the pics not being clear they look perfectly fine and clear enough here.
Unfortunately I can't upload them again. Took long enough to do this post as it is.
I mean the pics size could be limited and depressed by AVSforum. The pics are displayed on this web page only 180x102 resolution size, and hard to look detailly.

Last edited by wei-wei; 07-20-2014 at 01:49 PM.
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post #6 of 45 Old 07-20-2014, 04:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wei-wei View Post
I mean the pics size could be limited and depressed by AVSforum. The pics are displayed on this web page only 180x102 resolution size, and hard to look detailly.
The pictures are all 800 pixels wide and display full size when I view the forum, so not sure why you are seeing them smaller.
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post #7 of 45 Old 11-01-2014, 03:18 AM
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@ashyt16 - This is bad-ass, Bravo man!
Picture are displaying fine.
I have bookmarked this thread for possible future reference.
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post #8 of 45 Old 11-02-2014, 01:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xplorar View Post
@ashyt16 - This is bad-ass, Bravo man!
Picture are displaying fine.
I have bookmarked this thread for possible future reference.
Thanks, however the pj failed again a few months later with the same fault. The gearboxes which Epson are using are just pants! The tiny plastic gears cannot handle the torque it produces.
This failure seems to be the root of many of the symptoms people experience with the pj shutting down with the red lights blinking.

I have now repaired it again, but this time I have completely replaced the gearbox and motor with a much better all metal one.
I will post pics up soon. It was easy enough to do if you are handy with tools.
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post #9 of 45 Old 11-13-2014, 08:58 PM
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Question

Does this same design flaw exist on the 5030/6030? I think my 6010 is having this problem. It has worked fine but tonight when I try and power it up I hear a grinding sound then lamp/temp lights blink red then no lights (lamp never came on and cover for lamp never opened).

P.S. what is the purpose of a "cinema filter", what is it doing?
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post #10 of 45 Old 11-14-2014, 11:17 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WynsWrld98 View Post
Does this same design flaw exist on the 5030/6030? I think my 6010 is having this problem. It has worked fine but tonight when I try and power it up I hear a grinding sound then lamp/temp lights blink red then no lights (lamp never came on and cover for lamp never opened).

P.S. what is the purpose of a "cinema filter", what is it doing?
I would say it's highly likely. Why Epson continue to use the same part that fails is beyond me as I have now replaced it with a much better part. It wouldn't be hard for Epson to do the same.
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post #11 of 45 Old 11-14-2014, 11:20 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tuayupyite View Post
agree, the pics size could be limited and depressed by AVSforum. The pics are displayed on this web page only 180x102 resolution size, and hard to look detailly. [IMG]http://******/5p8[/IMG]
This is either down to your browser or something else. I assure you the pictures are perfectly viewable. I have tried on various devices.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ashyt16 View Post
Thanks, however the pj failed again a few months later with the same fault. The gearboxes which Epson are using are just pants! The tiny plastic gears cannot handle the torque it produces.
This failure seems to be the root of many of the symptoms people experience with the pj shutting down with the red lights blinking.

I have now repaired it again, but this time I have completely replaced the gearbox and motor with a much better all metal one.
I will post pics up soon. It was easy enough to do if you are handy with tools.
Hi ashyt16, did you purchase new parts for the gear box or did you make them yourself? I am referring to the new metal ones you spoke of above? My Epson 5010 is also having the same issue and is also out of warranty. When I took it to the Epson recommended repair shop in Calgary they said it was my main board and to fix it was $2000. I like the $50 repair instead for obvious reasons.
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post #13 of 45 Old 12-03-2014, 12:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kosmocgy View Post
Hi ashyt16, did you purchase new parts for the gear box or did you make them yourself? I am referring to the new metal ones you spoke of above? My Epson 5010 is also having the same issue and is also out of warranty. When I took it to the Epson recommended repair shop in Calgary they said it was my main board and to fix it was $2000. I like the $50 repair instead for obvious reasons.
I bought a complete motor and gearbox. Didn't cost much and it is far superior to the crap plastic Epson one. Give me a day or so and I'll post it up for you.
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post #14 of 45 Old 12-03-2014, 12:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kosmocgy View Post
Hi ashyt16, did you purchase new parts for the gear box or did you make them yourself? I am referring to the new metal ones you spoke of above? My Epson 5010 is also having the same issue and is also out of warranty. When I took it to the Epson recommended repair shop in Calgary they said it was my main board and to fix it was $2000. I like the $50 repair instead for obvious reasons.

$2000???


Sounds to me like they either didn't want the job or were trying to rip you off.


Ed
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post #15 of 45 Old 12-03-2014, 01:31 PM
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$2000???


Sounds to me like they either didn't want the job or were trying to rip you off.


Ed
The $2000 quote was not for the gear box replacement but for a new main board. They gave me the part number over the phone but Epson was charging them/ me the $2000. I want to try this first before I brick this and buy a new projector in general.

I have come to the conclusion of two main points going forward.

1) I will never again purchase a Epson product of any kind
2) If I have to buy another projector to replace my 5010 it will not have a automatic lens cap. Not worth the addition of another potential failure point when I can just reach up and pull off the lens cap.
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post #16 of 45 Old 12-03-2014, 01:36 PM
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Originally Posted by ashyt16 View Post
I bought a complete motor and gearbox. Didn't cost much and it is far superior to the crap plastic Epson one. Give me a day or so and I'll post it up for you.
Thanks ashyt16. I placed an order from the US site you listed above, but they are on back order so no idea when I would get it. Plus I am in Canada so they are going to charge me freight that will almost double the cost of the part from $46 USD to about $90.

Your other gear box you purchased, did you have to do something to put it in the projector? or did it fit without any changes? I am handy to a point but not sure I could do much more than following your instructions and replacing the part with a new part.
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post #17 of 45 Old 12-03-2014, 02:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Fitting it was pretty straight forward. A slight bit of modification to the motor gearbox spindle, but that was it really.

Do you get the grinding noise or does it just attempt to start up then shut down? I doubt it's the mainboard.
Also why did you mention the automatic lens door? I doubt this would fail easily as its more robust.

Last edited by ashyt16; 12-04-2014 at 04:18 AM.
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post #18 of 45 Old 12-04-2014, 07:50 AM
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Originally Posted by ashyt16 View Post
Fitting it was pretty straight forward. A slight bit of modification to the motor gearbox spindle, but that was it really.

Do you get the grinding noise or does it just attempt to start up then shut down? I doubt it's the mainboard.
Also why did you mention the automatic lens door? I doubt this would fail easily as its more robust.
Yes, I did also hear the grinding sound. My issues happened in the same order you had yours. Other than this issue I have had no issues with the projector and really like it. I am still on my first bulb as a matter of fact.

I only mention the lens door as I imagine that gears that are failing work the lens door. I could be wrong though.
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post #19 of 45 Old 12-04-2014, 09:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by kosmocgy View Post
Yes, I did also hear the grinding sound. My issues happened in the same order you had yours. Other than this issue I have had no issues with the projector and really like it. I am still on my first bulb as a matter of fact.

I only mention the lens door as I imagine that gears that are failing work the lens door. I could be wrong though.
The lens door is a totally seperate mechanism and I've never heard of anyone have one fail.

It pretty much seems like your cinema filter mechanism has failed due to the motor gearbox failure.
If the cinema filter doesn't cycle at power on then it shuts down the pj and throws up the red lights error.
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post #20 of 45 Old 12-04-2014, 12:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ashyt16 View Post
The lens door is a totally seperate mechanism and I've never heard of anyone have one fail.

It pretty much seems like your cinema filter mechanism has failed due to the motor gearbox failure.
If the cinema filter doesn't cycle at power on then it shuts down the pj and throws up the red lights error.
That's good to know. Thanks for the clarification. Now I just need to wait for the part that is on back order to replace it, unless the new one you used is available for me to order and try instead. I really do appreciate your input into this
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post #21 of 45 Old 12-05-2014, 02:31 PM
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This thread gets two thumbs up from me, just by chance did you take any pics of the inside
of the projector case, in the pic where you covered it up so dust would not get on the optics there is a foam seal in what part of the case that part was seated if this makes sense
Thanks
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post #22 of 45 Old 12-05-2014, 04:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ashyt16 View Post
I have now repaired it again, but this time I have completely replaced the gearbox and motor with a much better all metal one.
I will post pics up soon. It was easy enough to do if you are handy with tools.
I am very interested in info on the improved metal gearbox, where to buy, and how you adapted it.

My 2 year old 6010 just started failing with the exact same issue an hour ago. Unfortunately I was turning it on for my 7 year old daughter and her friends to watch Maleficent for her birthday party And my in-laws are up and we were planning to watch a movie tomorrow.

Although mine is still under warranty (for close to another year), I am very leery of letting Epson ship me refurb. From the main 5010/6010 thread, it seems that many have gone through multiple refurb units (some are on their 4th). Other than the flashing blue light issue/won't come out of warm up mode (went away after updating firmware), I have had no issues and picture quality is good. I'd hate to get a replacement with unknown history/handling and then have it break for another reason just out of warranty.

One person on the main thread told Epson he did not want a refurb under warranty, but wanted his exact unit repaired. They referred him to a local service center; his issue went away after firmware update so he did not have to use the repair center. I'm wondering if I may be able to get the metal gear box and have Epson install at no cost under warranty.

Last edited by DeaconDan; 12-05-2014 at 09:39 PM.
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post #23 of 45 Old 12-05-2014, 04:52 PM
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My 6010 had cinema filter failure grinding at startup with flashing lughts specifically asked to have my unit repaired not get a refurb. They did it and so fast I had it back in exactly 1 week and they even put new lamp in it which it didn't even need. I compared serial number to verify it was my unit all good.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WynsWrld98 View Post
My 6010 had cinema filter failure grinding at startup with flashing lughts specifically asked to have my unit repaired not get a refurb. They did it and so fast I had it back in exactly 1 week and they even put new lamp in it which it didn't even need. I compared serial number to verify it was my unit all good.
Happy New Year everyone! Our 5010 is just over a year old. We woke up today expecting to watch some football, but we are getting what sounds like the same error. It looks like we'll be watching football on my 10 year old Panny 42" EDTV (which is still going strong). Upon pressing the 5010's power button:
  1. Blue light blinks 9 times
  2. I hear a short (maybe 0.5 seconds buzzing sound -- probably the gears slipping)
  3. Blue light continues to blink for ~10 more times
  4. Both red lights start flashing on lamp and temp
I both the projector and 120" screen from Visual Apex. They were fabulous during the purchase/selection process, and also helped with questions during my installation. Unfortunately it is Jan. 1st and they are understandably closed today.



Having read so many complaints on the Official Epson Thread, I'm very concerned about getting a refurbished unit back. I'll certainly talk to VA about this tomorrow, but would certainly appreciate any advise in the meantime. The kids and I are on vacation through the weekend, so this couldn't have happened at a worse time.


Thanks,
Neil
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post #25 of 45 Old 01-01-2015, 02:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neil111 View Post
Happy New Year everyone! Our 5010 is just over a year old. We woke up today expecting to watch some football, but we are getting what sounds like the same error. It looks like we'll be watching football on my 10 year old Panny 42" EDTV (which is still going strong). Upon pressing the 5010's power button:
  1. Blue light blinks 9 times
  2. I hear a short (maybe 0.5 seconds buzzing sound -- probably the gears slipping)
  3. Blue light continues to blink for ~10 more times
  4. Both red lights start flashing on lamp and temp
I both the projector and 120" screen from Visual Apex. They were fabulous during the purchase/selection process, and also helped with questions during my installation. Unfortunately it is Jan. 1st and they are understandably closed today.



Having read so many complaints on the Official Epson Thread, I'm very concerned about getting a refurbished unit back. I'll certainly talk to VA about this tomorrow, but would certainly appreciate any advise in the meantime. The kids and I are on vacation through the weekend, so this couldn't have happened at a worse time.


Thanks,
Neil
Mine was making a grinding sound (like gears grinding) not a buzzing sound so not sure if same issue based on your description. When I contacted Epson they were immediately starting to setup a swap so I would get a refurb but I didn't want that, I simply asked them if I could have MY projector repaired and they said "yes". They e-mailed me a Fedex label, I shipped it in original box, I had it back in exactly a week which shocked me how fast! They put a new lamp in it even though it didn't need it. Also a shock is projector was left on front porch w/o a signature required. They didn't send me back original box but instead put it in an Epson refurb box. I compared serial number and sure enough original projector back.

Last edited by WynsWrld98; 01-01-2015 at 02:07 PM.
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post #26 of 45 Old 01-01-2015, 04:20 PM
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Originally Posted by WynsWrld98 View Post
Mine was making a grinding sound (like gears grinding) not a buzzing sound so not sure if same issue based on your description.
Hi & thanks for the quick response. Yep, mine is more like a grinding sound too. I'll update the group following my discussions with VA and Epson tomorrow.
Neil
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post #27 of 45 Old 01-02-2015, 06:07 AM - Thread Starter
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Update to original post

Unfortunately I can't update my original post because of the stupid image restrictions of the site, so have to make this post in addition to the original post here:
Epson 5010/6010 'Cinema filter Error', grinding noise, red light fix with pics


EDIT: The original mod only worked for a short while before the gear box failed again.
Below is a permanent mod I did by replacing the whole gear box with a much better all metal gear box.
The mod was easy enough to do and only a small amount of modification was needed to make this fit.
The new gear box works great and have not had any more problems since.


Here is a pic of the completed modification with the new metal gearbox installed:







Here it is installed:








Here is the type of motor/gear box I used, the motor is exactly the same size as the original:





I used a 50rpm motor, but a 60rpm would also be fine. If the motor is too fast then this would also throw up an error and the PJ would shut down, so faster isn't better.
The motor is available here: http://www.pololu.com/product/1095 however these motors are popular and available from many places.
In the Uk you can find the motor here: http://www.technobotsonline.com/polo...gearmotor.html


Unforunately I didn't create a tutorial for this, but I'll give quick run down of what I did:


1. First the motor assembly needs to be disassembled by first removing the nut holding the clutch gear in place as seen in the pic below:





Then the two halves of the motor/gear assembly can be separated by removing the screws as indicated in the pic:





Next the motor and gear box itself needs to be unscrewed from the frame by removing the 2 tiny screws holding the metal plate to the main frame. They are a bit stubborn, but will come.
This will leave you with just the gearbox and motor attached to the metal plate.
Then remove the plastic casing of the gearbox by removing the 2 tiny screws on the underside of it and remove the clutch gear. This should leave you with just the clutch gear spindle, brass collet and metal plate.


The next step is to remove the brass collet attached over the clutch gear spindle as this is the part we need to attach to the spindle on the metal gear motor. I did this by supporting the metal plate in a vice and knocking the spindle out . This will leave you with just the brass collet. Below you can see what I mean by spindle and metal plate, here it is with the brass collet removed:







You can discard these parts as they will not be needed.


Now the only problem is that the metal gear spindle is larger than the internal diameter of the brass collet and also has a flat edge. We need to make the brass collet fit over the metal gear box spindle, so what I did was lightly clamp the motor in a vice then powered the motor using a 5v source from a mobile phone charger.
I then proceeded to file down the spindle until it was the right size. It takes a while and some patience, but you get there eventually, just keep checking every so often for fitment.


Once the motor spindle fits inside the brass collet all that remains is to glue the 2 parts together. I used super glue and then used Quiksteel to further support the join of the parts. This is the grey blob you can see in the final assembly and makes it very secure.
Before setting everything in place you need to do a test fitment to make sure that the plastic clutch gear sits in the right place and won't foul any part of the metal frame.


Once you have that sorted it can all be reassembled. This is fairly simple as there is a hole that is just in the right place and can be used to screw one side of the gear box to the metal frame using one of the tiny screws that we took out when removing the previous plastic gear box. Just ensure that the metal screw doesn't foul the little metal gears when attaching.
For the other side of the gear box I just used super glue once I had the position right to get the plastic gears to mesh together properly.


The rest is just reassembling the clutch parts and the metal motor frame housing to leave you with the image at the beginning of this post.
NOTE: When reassembling the clutch ensure the plastic gear can slip, it shouldn't take much to make the gear slip. I just screwed the nut down level with the thread.

Finally, observing polarity, you need to solder the plug and 2 wires from the original motor to the new motor and then install the whole thing back into the projector.


That's it, seems complicated when you read it, but I have just tried to be descriptive considering the lack of pics and in practice it was fairly straight forward.


I envisage I shall have no further problems for years to come from this part of the projector and indeed to date I haven't.


Hope this helps someone else.
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Last edited by ashyt16; 01-02-2015 at 01:14 PM.
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post #28 of 45 Old 01-03-2015, 05:08 AM
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Amazing! Thanks! Thread bookmarked!
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post #29 of 45 Old 01-25-2015, 10:02 PM
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Has anybody tried to simply delete the gear assembly and live w/o the "Cinema Filter"? I looked online, I don't see any articles of anybody who has tried.
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post #30 of 45 Old 01-27-2015, 04:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erichfrazer View Post
Has anybody tried to simply delete the gear assembly and live w/o the "Cinema Filter"? I looked online, I don't see any articles of anybody who has tried.
You can't. The pj goes through a startup sequence which cycles the CF, this activates 2 micro switches. If these dont get activated in the right sequence then the pj shuts down.
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