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post #1 of 42 Old 07-29-2014, 04:35 AM - Thread Starter
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Need advice on Projector

Hello,

So, recently wife gave me a room in the basement and I have decided to use it as a dedicated movie room. Side and rear walls are dark gray and ceiling and screen wall is black . Carpet will be Black as well . Window will be blacked out.

1. What I need help is, what kind of projector should I get? The room size is pretty dam small, but I have to make it work since this is all I get. Projector will be wall mounted most likely behind the couch or rather more like on top of the couch (above the head,when sitting on couch)

2. Also, need to know what kind of screen should I get and size as well. Been reading tons of info here, and to be honest it is over whelming. So Stewart,falcon,elite,Grand view screens etc are some of the ones I have been looking up on. Things like Gain,hot spotting etc I have no clue what that means.

Btw, located in Canada BC. So, some of the products you list not sure If I can even get over here.
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post #2 of 42 Old 07-29-2014, 06:08 AM
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Since your room is small, a short throw projector is what you need. The projection angle will be steep, so you should look for a white screen with a little extra gain. (1.3 gain or so)
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post #3 of 42 Old 07-29-2014, 08:00 AM
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The Benq 1080st will serve this room well. Mounted about 6 feet from the screen will give you a 110 inch 16:9 picture with the projector in the middle of its zoom range for maximum sharpness. If you want some room on each side for speakers, 110 inches is about as big as you can get. Since your room will be a dedicated theater room, a white screen is in order. Which white screen you get is dependent on your screen budget.
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post #4 of 42 Old 07-29-2014, 10:53 AM
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That's going to be a really nice, dark room when you're done with it.
A standard-throw projector should still be able to get you a 100" screen in there.. the w1070 should be good for about 110" from the back of the room which is perfect for most and plenty big for your room.

The wall-mount will have to hold the projector upside-down and about 8"-12" above the top of the screen in most cases unless you decide to go for a projector costing over $2000 (you've already got a good room if you wanted to go higher-end).

For a screen in that dark room, you'll get the best uniformity going with a white screen with low gain..and personally I wouldn't go over 1.1gain if possible because even some pretty low-gain cheaper screens can hotspot a little and lower gain won't do that. Stay away from grey screens; there aren't any available at neutral gain so they all will cause more problems in a good room than a white screen around 1.0gain.

The only reason to go higher gain (or grey) is to get more brightness (your screen-size is modest enough that brightness will NOT be a problem) or to struggle against a lit or very bad room (your room is fantastic); so you have nothing to gain by getting a higher gain screen. Higher gain screens can also cause problems with viewing angles, uniformity and color shifting that you won't have to worry about if you get a low-gain white screen.

If your screen wall is smooth, you can first try rolling on some flat-white interior wall-paint and putting a simple frame around that. A smooth surface with flat-white paint makes a very good screen in a dark room. It's very easy to do and can simply be painted over if you change your mind.
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Simple <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room, build in a day, takedown in an hour.
Easy $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.

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post #5 of 42 Old 07-29-2014, 11:15 AM
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If you're on a tight budget, the w1070 (or short-throw w1080 if you're okay having the projector in front of you..probably on a very low table) is the projector that'll get you by far the best price/performance combination. It offers significantly better colors, contrast or BOTH than pretty much every other projector until you are looking at choices costing well over 2X as much.

If you keep your seating where it is, anything from 90-135" for screen-size would be within normal ranges so aiming for 110" should feel pretty "middle of the theater". Hang/paint your screen only 16"-24" from the floor so seated eyes are about 1/3-1/2 of the way up the screen..this keeps necks and eyes more comfortable.

Are you trying to keep within any sort of budget?
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Simple <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room, build in a day, takedown in an hour.
Easy $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.

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post #6 of 42 Old 07-29-2014, 12:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Hey thanks for these great suggestions

Having the projector in front is not what I'm really looking for. I rather wall mount it in the back wall out of the way. Or even maybe ceiling mount it as a second option.
That is good, info in regards to the screen size. I was hoping I can get at least 100" (BIGGER is better) with out seeing too many artifacts or screen pixels (not sure what the terminology is for that).

The projector W1070 or W1080 is the suggestions for the projector then?BenQ W1070/W1080ST owners: cooling issue ? Strange answer from BenQ Support ! (this however scared me a bit) I really do not have a budget, but rather do not want to spend $10,000 on a projector alone that's all.
I'll gladly buy the Ben Q as it is much cheaper lol, then some other ones I have been looking at. But, I am a stickler for video quality and do not mind spending a bit more on something with better PQ. By the way I do watch 3D.

I read in another thread Need to be pointed in right direction for $2k--$3k projector
and here some of the projectors here mentioned with the Sony 40Es and JVC RS46 (discontinued unfortunately) . What are your thoughts of these for my room?
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post #7 of 42 Old 07-29-2014, 12:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cartoys View Post
Hey thanks for these great suggestions

Having the projector in front is not what I'm really looking for. I rather wall mount it in the back wall out of the way. Or even maybe ceiling mount it as a second option.
That is good, info in regards to the screen size. I was hoping I can get at least 100" (BIGGER is better) with out seeing too many artifacts or screen pixels (not sure what the terminology is for that).

The projector W1070 or W1080 is the suggestions for the projector then?BenQ W1070/W1080ST owners: cooling issue ? Strange answer from BenQ Support ! (this however scared me a bit) I really do not have a budget, but rather do not want to spend $10,000 on a projector alone that's all.
I'll gladly buy the Ben Q as it is much cheaper lol, then some other ones I have been looking at. But, I am a stickler for video quality and do not mind spending a bit more on something with better PQ. By the way I do watch 3D.

I read in another thread Need to be pointed in right direction for $2k--$3k projector
and here some of the projectors here mentioned with the Sony 40Es and JVC RS46 (discontinued unfortunately) . What are your thoughts of these for my room?
The linked issue with the BenQ is to do with their implementation of CEC and is unlikely to affect many users (in fact, that's the first time that issue has been reported).
Both the W1070 and W1080 are, indeed, great projectors for the money which is why they get such rave reviews.

But for your room - and your budget - I think you'd get the most benefit out of going for the Sony HW40ES ($2.5k); which does significantly better than both the BenQ's in terms of black level and contrast - just the kind of thing you'll appreciate in such a nice, dark-painted, light-controlled room. It's 3D performance is good, too (although the BenQ's have a slight edge here).

From 11ft, you'll get up 110" from the Sony - which is pretty-much perfect for your room.
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post #8 of 42 Old 07-29-2014, 01:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kreeturez View Post
The linked issue with the BenQ is to do with their implementation of CEC and is unlikely to affect many users (in fact, that's the first time that issue has been reported).
Both the W1070 and W1080 are, indeed, great projectors for the money which is why they get such rave reviews.

But for your room - and your budget - I think you'd get the most benefit out of going for the Sony HW40ES ($2.5k); which does significantly better than both the BenQ's in terms of black level and contrast - just the kind of thing you'll appreciate in such a nice, dark-painted, light-controlled room. It's 3D performance is good, too (although the BenQ's have a slight edge here).

From 11ft, you'll get up 110" from the Sony - which is pretty-much perfect for your room.
I was looking at the calculator and it says that with an 11 feet throw range, at 90 inch diagonal screen, it puts it in the RED.
Do you know what that means?
I was hoping to have a 110 inch screen.

Thanks.
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post #9 of 42 Old 07-29-2014, 01:18 PM
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Need advice on Projector

It means you're towards the 'larger-image' end of the zoom range for that distance; which normally means you get a bit more brightness. (Adjust the zoom-level slider at the top-left to get to 110" at that distance).

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post #10 of 42 Old 07-29-2014, 01:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Hmm being at full zoom and at the larger portion of the image. Would there be any downsides to that? Seems a bit odd to fully max out the zoom all the time to watch movies.
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post #11 of 42 Old 07-29-2014, 01:43 PM
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Hmm being at full zoom and at the larger portion of the image. Would there be any downsides to that? Seems a bit odd to fully max out the zoom all the time to watch movies.
Zoom and focus are both mechanically controlled via dials on the projector itself, once-off, when you install it. It's purely optical - and as such, doesn't degrade the image.

In fact generally, you want to be closer to the larger end of the screen-size-from-a-given-distance spectrum due to the extra brightness it usually gives (although in the case of the Sony, there isn't much difference).

See here for a more detailed explanation.

The relevant bit is this:


Quote:
When a projector’s lens is in full wide angle mode (largest image from a given distance), more lumens make it out the lens. In full telephoto, less lumens.
...that simply means it's brighter. Definitely not a bad thing. They then continue by saying:


Quote:
The only reason this may be important, is for discussions of what is bright enough to meet your needs.

So no, you don't need to worry about losing image quality as a result. Worst-case is if you can't mount all the way back at 11ft (remember, these measurements are from the lens itself, not the back of the projector) for any reason - then you'll have to settle for 105" instead of 110"

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post #12 of 42 Old 07-29-2014, 02:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Ok, Think maybe I should just go and buy the projector mount it up, then measure? to see what image size I can max out would be the best solution to that (crosses fingers for 110")

11 feet is my viewing distance btw, and from the lens to the screen is probably more like 10 feet (throw distance) I measured the specs of the Sony. Want to confirm this still works for my room size before I go ahead and buy this.

thanks
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post #13 of 42 Old 07-29-2014, 03:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cartoys View Post
Ok, Think maybe I should just go and buy the projector mount it up, then measure? to see what image size I can max out would be the best solution to that (crosses fingers for 110")

11 feet is my viewing distance btw, and from the lens to the screen is probably more like 10 feet (throw distance) I measured the specs of the Sony. Want to confirm this still works for my room size before I go ahead and buy this.

thanks
You haven't mentioned anything about where you speakers are placed. Be sure to think about this, and even have your left-right-center speakers sitting there when deciding on a screen size.

I use full size standing speakers that are 12" wide and 36" tall. That means I lose TWO FEET off the width of my room for screen size. So you don't want to overlook speaker size.

Also, pay attention to projector offset. This means where the center of the lens sits relative to the height of the screen. With the W1070, for example, the lens will be about 3" above the top of the screen. No big deal. For the Optoma HD131xe, it would need to be 12" above the screen. Starting from an 8' ceiling, then the length of the projector mount, then the offset, you can easily end up with the screen 20" below your ceiling, which puts it almost on the floor ! And tilting the projector up makes the image a trapezoid unless you use keystone correction which degrades image quality. So ceiling HEIGHT will also dictate your projector choices.

If the 7' 4" on your drawing is ceiling height, then you REALLY need to pay attention to offsets on projectors.

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post #14 of 42 Old 07-29-2014, 05:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Cartoys View Post
Ok, Think maybe I should just go and buy the projector mount it up, then measure? to see what image size I can max out would be the best solution to that (crosses fingers for 110")

11 feet is my viewing distance btw, and from the lens to the screen is probably more like 10 feet (throw distance) I measured the specs of the Sony. Want to confirm this still works for my room size before I go ahead and buy this.

thanks
A 10ft throw will nett you just a bit above 100" with the Sony. If you could get in an extra half-foot, you could hit 105". It is somewhat tight...


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If the 7' 4" on your drawing is ceiling height, then you REALLY need to pay attention to offsets on projectors.
I think you're confusing the behind-the-seating wall-width with the ceiling height - the ceiling's listed at 8ft high.

That height will work perfectly for either projector being considered here (both the W1070 - due to it's conveniently small offset; and the Sony - due to it's large lens shift).

Speakers often go under the screen at it's edges, so the OP should be fine unless he plans on getting really big front-left and front-rights; in a small room I'm not sure such large speakers are required. Also, I'm not sure if they'd be worth sacrificing significant screen real-estate for either...

The throw is a bit more of a concern, though. The W1070 can hit 120" from 10ft; the Sony tops out at about 100".

The Sony is a really solid candidate for such a well-treated room; but the throw might not work for the desired size if we're limited to just 10ft.

@@Cartoys; is there any specific reason the Sony couldn't be mounted above the sofa? Say, using a low-profile mount that keeps it relatively flush with the ceiling? (I do this with my projector...)
Because from the 11ft seating position, you can nail a bit above 110"...

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post #15 of 42 Old 07-29-2014, 06:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks everyone for your input.

I re did the media picture to help change some details.

To clarify, I was planning on putting the projector above the sofa and the sofa would be against the back wall.
I don't think my drawing was too clear there. Sorry guys for the confusion.

And the ceiling height is 8 feet. The 7 feet 4 inches is just the wall space that I have available (for my sofa).

How high should the Sony projector be mounted?
I was planning on putting it above the sofa.
Will it be loud if it's above my head?

Also, any of you guys have experience this issue?

I have track lights that are black that are in the center of the room, dropping about... 5-6 inches from the ceiling.

Will that cast a shadow on to the screen?

Thanks!
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post #16 of 42 Old 07-29-2014, 06:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cartoys View Post

How high should the Sony projector be mounted?
I was planning on putting it above the sofa.
Will it be loud if it's above my head?
There's no specific height required for the Sony because of its lens shift, any height will do in practice.

The W1070 would need to be just a few inches above the top of your screen.

Neither is particularly loud: the Sony is very quiet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cartoys View Post
Also, any of you guys have experience this issue?

I have track lights that are black that are in the center of the room, dropping about... 5-6 inches from the ceiling.

Will that cast a shadow on to the screen?

Thanks!

As long as they're not in the straight-line-path between the projector's lens and the top of the screen, no problem with those.
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post #17 of 42 Old 07-29-2014, 06:33 PM - Thread Starter
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So is the Sony 40ES still a viable option for me? and what would be the screen size can that project for my room? 100,105,or 110? with out compromising something.
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post #18 of 42 Old 07-29-2014, 06:44 PM
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Need advice on Projector

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Originally Posted by Cartoys View Post
So is the Sony 40ES still a viable option for me? and what would be the screen size can that project for my room? 100,105,or 110? with out compromising something.

They're both viable.

But I really want you to get the Sony . I say this (despite being an incredibly happy BenQ W1070 owner) because your perfect, high-contrast-allowing room would be a perfect match for its excellent black levels and high contrast.

Were your room lousy (light-grey/white/beige ceilings and walls), I'd automatically say W1070 because the contrast and black level gains of the Sony are a waste of money in an average room.

But your room isn't average. It's awesome. And you're budget allows. So Sony is first choice.

The only decision factor then is screen size. Your 10ft throw distance means you're limited to 100". That might be sufficient for you. If it is, then order.

If it isn't, then (assuming you have no way of moving the projector further back), you'll need to do the W1070. Which is a great projector (I've loved every minute of the 2200 hours I've put on mine); so you wouldn't necessarily be sorry. And you'd save a lot of cash. It'd just be a little wasted in your fantastic room since it doesn't have the black level or contrast to take full advantage of it.

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post #19 of 42 Old 07-29-2014, 06:56 PM - Thread Starter
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oh boy, So the Sony 40ES will only get me 100" of goodness? lol , my heart just sank!

Now, Is this assuming I use a 16:9 screen only? I was talking to a salesman (yeah i know) and he said, you should consider get 2.35 screen instead since it is dedicated for only movie watching.
How, does this play into the projector now? Am I able to get more real estate?
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Need advice on Projector

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Originally Posted by Cartoys View Post
oh boy, So the Sony 40ES will only get me 100" of goodness? lol , my heart just sank!

Now, Is this assuming I use a 16:9 screen only? I was talking to a salesman (yeah i know) and he said, you should consider get 2.35 screen instead since it is dedicated for only movie watching.
How, does this play into the projector now? Am I able to get more real estate?
Yes, we're talking 16:9.

2.35 means a screen of smaller height at the same width. So that's even less real-estate. Sorry

Also some films (especially those that get IMAX releases or animated films) are shot in 16:9 anyway; as is all TV content (if you ever wish to watch your favorite series on the big screen).

So in your case, yeah, I'd recommend sticking to 16:9.

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post #21 of 42 Old 07-29-2014, 07:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cartoys View Post
Hey thanks for these great suggestions

Having the projector in front is not what I'm really looking for. I rather wall mount it in the back wall out of the way. Or even maybe ceiling mount it as a second option.
That is good, info in regards to the screen size. I was hoping I can get at least 100" (BIGGER is better) with out seeing too many artifacts or screen pixels (not sure what the terminology is for that).

The projector W1070 or W1080 is the suggestions for the projector then?BenQ W1070/W1080ST owners: cooling issue ? Strange answer from BenQ Support ! (this however scared me a bit) I really do not have a budget, but rather do not want to spend $10,000 on a projector alone that's all.
I'll gladly buy the Ben Q as it is much cheaper lol, then some other ones I have been looking at. But, I am a stickler for video quality and do not mind spending a bit more on something with better PQ. By the way I do watch 3D.

I read in another thread Need to be pointed in right direction for $2k--$3k projector
and here some of the projectors here mentioned with the Sony 40Es and JVC RS46 (discontinued unfortunately) . What are your thoughts of these for my room?
If I were you I would see if I could find a JVC X35 or the JVC RS46. I have the X35. I did a demo in my buddy's theater because I haven't finished mine and that is a really nice projector. I am sure you can get one on Ebay from a retailer at a good price with warranty.
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post #22 of 42 Old 07-29-2014, 09:27 PM
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Ditto. In a dark room JVC wins most every time.
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post #23 of 42 Old 07-29-2014, 11:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by P007 View Post
If I were you I would see if I could find a JVC X35 or the JVC RS46. I have the X35. I did a demo in my buddy's theater because I haven't finished mine and that is a really nice projector. I am sure you can get one on Ebay from a retailer at a good price with warranty.
Never really thought about the JVC X35 is this the newer version of rs46?
Also, same problem I'm having with the Sony is that my throw distance is pretty maxed out and not sure if it can be usable in my situation. Playing with the calculator at projector central it seems to be stretching it.

This is dropping it down to 100", from what I originally wanted of 110" screen
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post #24 of 42 Old 07-30-2014, 12:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cartoys View Post
Never really thought about the JVC X35 is this the newer version of rs46?
Also, same problem I'm having with the Sony is that my throw distance is pretty maxed out and not sure if it can be usable in my situation. Playing with the calculator at projector central it seems to be stretching it.

This is dropping it down to 100", from what I originally wanted of 110" screen
Silly question, but what is on other side of the rear wall ? Some people have been known to mount the projector outside the room with a hole to project through. It keeps projector noise outside the theatre and only requires an IR repeater to allow the remote to function. You could gain an extra two feet of throw distance, and larger screen size, if there was something like a closet behind the sofa wall.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cartoys View Post
Never really thought about the JVC X35 is this the newer version of rs46?
Also, same problem I'm having with the Sony is that my throw distance is pretty maxed out and not sure if it can be usable in my situation. Playing with the calculator at projector central it seems to be stretching it.

This is dropping it down to 100", from what I originally wanted of 110" screen
This is why i originally suggested a short throw projector like the benq1080st. You'll definitely give up some contrast compared to the Sony an JVC units, but you'll get the size you want. Everything is compromise.
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post #26 of 42 Old 07-30-2014, 12:31 AM
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kreeturez, you newbies are hilarious.

"Speakers often go under the screen at it's edges, so the OP should be fine unless he plans on getting really big front-left and front-rights; in a small room I'm not sure such large speakers are required. Also, I'm not sure if they'd be worth sacrificing significant screen real-estate for either..."

All of which is immaterial if he has already purchased big floor standing speakers.

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Last edited by dreamer; 07-30-2014 at 12:39 AM.
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post #27 of 42 Old 07-30-2014, 02:21 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by dreamer View Post
kreeturez, you newbies are hilarious.

"Speakers often go under the screen at it's edges, so the OP should be fine unless he plans on getting really big front-left and front-rights; in a small room I'm not sure such large speakers are required. Also, I'm not sure if they'd be worth sacrificing significant screen real-estate for either..."

All of which is immaterial if he has already purchased big floor standing speakers.
Yup already got big speakers already but the width size of wall really is not that important since It would fit 110" easily with my towers. Question is just the projector and throw distance is the problem. The wall behind the sofa is a load bearing wall. I have thought of ripping a hole in it, and extending it out with a platform. Also, a big ass water tank is directly behind it as well. Which I would also have to move. Just too much work unfortunately.

The Sony40ES Barely makes 100" using the calculator and if my screen is even few inches too thick I would be screwed?
The BenQ1080ST would work for my room size,but having it in front of me is odd and just doesn't have the look I'm looking for. Feels more like a data projector, and feels like I'm at work.

Of course, this would be all fixed if I just go with say a 92" Stewart screen in stead of 100" or my preference 110".
Funny thing is that earlier today, I walked into a Hifi store downtown and talking to a sales rep there. He laughs at me for considering buying a Sony on a Stewart screen

Unless, there are other projector options i do not know of, I might have to drop the screen size down to 92" and get a JVC or Sony. As PQ is very important to me as well. I want to be blown away once I have this all hooked up. Not just oooh looks not bad kinda thing.
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post #28 of 42 Old 07-30-2014, 02:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamer View Post
kreeturez, you newbies are hilarious.

"Speakers often go under the screen at it's edges, so the OP should be fine unless he plans on getting really big front-left and front-rights; in a small room I'm not sure such large speakers are required. Also, I'm not sure if they'd be worth sacrificing significant screen real-estate for either..."

All of which is immaterial if he has already purchased big floor standing speakers.
Lol, says the non-newbie (oldie? ) that couldn't read the 'Ceiling Height' off a diagram

I do see your point; but in a tiny room, I wouldn't sacrifice significant screen-size by several feet in width for very large speakers; so if that were the case, the recommendation would be to go smaller.

But it's moot, though, since the OP was wise enough to take that into account with his original screen-size target regardless.

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Originally Posted by Cartoys View Post
The Sony40ES Barely makes 100" using the calculator and if my screen is even few inches too thick I would be screwed?
The BenQ1080ST would work for my room size,but having it in front of me is odd and just doesn't have the look I'm looking for. Feels more like a data projector, and feels like I'm at work.
Don't think in terms of the W1080; rather follow the above recommendations here and do your calculations with the W1070, which would put anything from 92" all the way up to 120" from 10ft.

That means it could be mounted where you're aiming to mount it, and you could still get a wide range for screen sizes around your desired target. It certainly isn't a data projector (it's marketed squarely to the home theatre market and thus looks very, very good on-screen); and while it absolutely will still 'wow' you, your main loss against the Sony is black level (which the Sony wins hands-down on) which hurts contrast. And the Sony is quieter.

If you want to investigate other options, here is a list of all projectors that can hit 110" from 10 ft.

BenQ W1070 Projector; Xtreamer Ultra 2 (running XBMC on OpenELEC) via Sony STR-DH540 AVR with Boston Acoustics SoundWare XS SE 5.1 Audio. MediaBrowser3 for Mobile Streaming.

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Last edited by kreeturez; 07-30-2014 at 03:08 AM.
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post #29 of 42 Old 07-30-2014, 03:41 AM
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B and H is selling the BENQw1500 for 1299.
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post #30 of 42 Old 07-30-2014, 04:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kreeturez View Post
Lol, says the non-newbie (oldie? ) that couldn't read the 'Ceiling Height' off a diagram

I do see your point; but in a tiny room, I wouldn't sacrifice significant screen-size by several feet in width for very large speakers; so if that were the case, the recommendation would be to go smaller.

But it's moot, though, since the OP was wise enough to take that into account with his original screen-size target regardless.



Don't think in terms of the W1080; rather follow the above recommendations here and do your calculations with the W1070, which would put anything from 92" all the way up to 120" from 10ft.

That means it could be mounted where you're aiming to mount it, and you could still get a wide range for screen sizes around your desired target. It certainly isn't a data projector (it's marketed squarely to the home theatre market and thus looks very, very good on-screen); and while it absolutely will still 'wow' you, your main loss against the Sony is black level (which the Sony wins hands-down on) which hurts contrast. And the Sony is quieter.

If you want to investigate other options, here is a list of all projectors that can hit 110" from 10 ft.
The Epson 2030 2D/3D (2nd on that list) is at BestBuy for $850 also.

Last edited by ALtlOff; 07-30-2014 at 06:00 AM.
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