Question About Wide Angle Lens and My Projector - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 14 Old 08-06-2014, 06:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Question Question About Wide Angle Lens and My Projector

Hi. I have an Acer H6510BD. I saw this video which was very intriguing.



Is this possible to do with my projector? I looked at the settings and my Acer does not do "vertical stretch". Are there any other suggestions? I would really like to get 2.35:1 ultra wide. It looks very nice on the wall like in the video.

Thank you.
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post #2 of 14 Old 08-06-2014, 07:00 PM
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That's not an anamorphic lens, it's a standard 'wide angle' lens which widens the image equally in all directions. It may do a decent job of providing a larger overall image from the distance he has the projector at, but it's not a 2.35 image he's projecting, as you would get with a anamorphic lens, it's still a standard 16:9 image, that's just blown up in size.

IMO, it looks silly on his wall because of all the reflections from the side walls. It's big, and that's it. If you want a nice big image, then move your projector further back and go for a nice big image. I personally have a 161" 16:9 screen, which delivers an excellent 2.35 size when movie watching. But, this guy isn't doing any vertical image stretch, or any anamorphic function at all. He's just made the image bigger.

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post #3 of 14 Old 08-06-2014, 10:00 PM
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Wow, that's still great news for many looking for an easy short-throw option without limiting their projector choices.

It also brings back something you, AV_Integrated, have questioned I believe about why in the world don't cheaper DLPs offer better zoom range. I've been told time and time again by other members that it isn't as simple as it sounds. I don't know about that..this looks pretty simple. If you can attach a zoom-in lens, you can attach a zoom-out lens. Or start with a longer throw and use last-in-line lensing for additional range. Last in line doesn't care what technology you're using so the usual "it's different for DLP" doesn't apply. With an adjustable add-on you can fix the last big issue plaguing every affordable LED projector!
This video should be brought up in a few threads.


Cpincforums, this will only help you if you're already all the way back and want a larger image. You'll suffer the typical dimming of enlarging your image BUT you won't have to use any special stretching or the rescaling that goes with it. So yes it's possible and yes it may help you (if you need a bigger image and have run out of room length), but as AV said, it isn't doing exactly what the user says it's doing.

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post #4 of 14 Old 08-07-2014, 04:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AV_Integrated View Post
That's not an anamorphic lens, it's a standard 'wide angle' lens which widens the image equally in all directions. It may do a decent job of providing a larger overall image from the distance he has the projector at, but it's not a 2.35 image he's projecting, as you would get with a anamorphic lens, it's still a standard 16:9 image, that's just blown up in size.

IMO, it looks silly on his wall because of all the reflections from the side walls. It's big, and that's it. If you want a nice big image, then move your projector further back and go for a nice big image. I personally have a 161" 16:9 screen, which delivers an excellent 2.35 size when movie watching. But, this guy isn't doing any vertical image stretch, or any anamorphic function at all. He's just made the image bigger.
Ohhhhh Ok. Thank you for clarifying this. The video I guess is misleading then because he says its 2.35:1. It looked like ultra-wide to me but I'm not a pro at this.

However this may work for me for what I am trying to achieve...Maybe you can help me figure it out? My friend has a hanger/autobody shop out in the boondocks. Its maybe like 2 or 3 stories high and 100 feet across with a bright white wall and its pitch black out there at night. We wanna bring my projector and set it up with a generator or on his truck alternator and project on the side of the building. Supposedly my Acer H6510BD can projector up to 300 inches (25 feet) diagonally. I dunno if that's true but hey its worth a shot. The thing is we want to blow up the image so its maybe like 30 or 40 or 50...heck even 70 feet diagonally. It is like pitch pitch black out there so I think its worth a shot. Will that lens help for what I'm trying to achieve? If it widens in all directions will it work? Thanks again.
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post #5 of 14 Old 08-07-2014, 04:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Ftoast View Post
Wow, that's still great news for many looking for an easy short-throw option without limiting their projector choices.

It also brings back something you, AV_Integrated, have questioned I believe about why in the world don't cheaper DLPs offer better zoom range. I've been told time and time again by other members that it isn't as simple as it sounds. I don't know about that..this looks pretty simple. If you can attach a zoom-in lens, you can attach a zoom-out lens. Or start with a longer throw and use last-in-line lensing for additional range. Last in line doesn't care what technology you're using so the usual "it's different for DLP" doesn't apply. With an adjustable add-on you can fix the last big issue plaguing every affordable LED projector!
This video should be brought up in a few threads.


Cpincforums, this will only help you if you're already all the way back and want a larger image. You'll suffer the typical dimming of enlarging your image BUT you won't have to use any special stretching or the rescaling that goes with it. So yes it's possible and yes it may help you (if you need a bigger image and have run out of room length), but as AV said, it isn't doing exactly what the user says it's doing.
Well I'm trying to project on the side of my friends shop. He lives out where its pitch black and I think the largest I can get the image is 25' just by itself. With the lens can I go bigger? I don't want it to be super dim and unwatchable but like I said its pitch black out there.
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post #6 of 14 Old 08-07-2014, 04:43 PM
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I would just try it out without the lense first. With it being outside there is no limiting factor on the distance like the guy in the video. He was already back against the wall in his room and wanted the image bigger so that is the reason he introduced the lens into the mix. All you have to do is move the projector back further from the building to get the same results. The limiting factor will be keeping the image in focus at that distance. I have heard of many people going well beyond their projectors rated size and have been pleased with the results. Your projector is rated at 3000 lumens so it should be plenty bright to go big, maybe not 70 foot big though.

Let us know how it turns out.
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post #7 of 14 Old 08-07-2014, 05:58 PM
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I think it's a good idea to try it first.

I would ask why you would get a generator instead of just running extension cords out of the shop to where you need them.

Still, try it out right now.

I'll wait while you do so.



Seriously, at a 300" diagonal, you are talking about a 267 square foot screen. Minimum REAL brightness specifications are about 13 lumens per square foot. Even if you drop that down to 10 lumens per square foot, you are talking about needing 2,670 REAL output lumens from your projector. That's a very unrealistic expectation. According to Projector Central, you may only realize about 5 lumens per square foot at 300" diagonal, which is well under any comfortable viewing threshold.

Now, let's be clear: The projector can FOCUS at 300" diagonal. Don't confuse that with being able to create an image that you will be happy with viewing. It may even be able to focus larger, but it's a cheap home theater movie projector. Keep your expectations in line. If you are happy with a 100" diagonal, and the brightness achieved, think about how what it would be like with 1/9th the brightness at a 300" diagonal. Easy to understand it may just be terrible.

But, as I said... Try it out. (right now!)

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post #8 of 14 Old 08-07-2014, 11:16 PM
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Just to be clear, using a lens will probably not make your image any brighter or better than just making the picture the same size by taking it back farther. With built-in zoom, you DO get a brighter image by zooming as large/close as possible, but I wouldn't bet on an external lens helping as much for this (though it'd be great if someone were to put it to the test).

I had an enjoyable time using a 400 actual lumen projector on a 25ft-wide screen..and later found I could just barely stand it at 40ft-wide. Your acer puts out around 650 actual lumens (if you want colors anyway) and it should be plenty of fun if you keep expectations in check.

I also demand pictures and a story when you return. Yes, they still tell tales of the 3story 600inch screen to this day.

Simple <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room, build in a day, takedown in an hour.
Easy $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.

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post #9 of 14 Old 08-09-2014, 05:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Talking

I have fulfilled your requested and taken pictures of testing out this project. I purchased the inverter which is rater for 750 watts and it runs the laptop and the projector without any problems. I have attached here two pictures taken from a cell phone. One is with the flash on and the other is with the flash off. I will tell you that to me it looks incredibly clear and awesome! It is closer to the picture with the flash turned off. I like how big it is but I think I am going to go with the lens so I can get it bigger but also still retain the brightness/closeness of the projector. How do you think this lens will work on the image???? The image you see in the picture I did however measure it across. It is exactly 21 steps heel-to-toe from one side to the other. Disregard the two giant garage doors I was projecting on. This was just a test. I think it looks great and I would like to go with a larger image.



I did have one problem however. I tried to connect my laptop to the casette deck player in my car. I used one of those 1/8" mini to casette converter things. I got a horrible noise out of it. I don't know if it was because the inverter is a modified sine wave or maybe the cassette device is a piece of garbage. I will do more testing and will report back. Thank you for your help.


I'm kind of a fool in that I did not measure how far away the image was from the projector. But

Quote:
Originally Posted by action_jackson View Post
I would just try it out without the lense first. With it being outside there is no limiting factor on the distance like the guy in the video. He was already back against the wall in his room and wanted the image bigger so that is the reason he introduced the lens into the mix. All you have to do is move the projector back further from the building to get the same results. The limiting factor will be keeping the image in focus at that distance. I have heard of many people going well beyond their projectors rated size and have been pleased with the results. Your projector is rated at 3000 lumens so it should be plenty bright to go big, maybe not 70 foot big though.

Let us know how it turns out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ftoast View Post
Just to be clear, using a lens will probably not make your image any brighter or better than just making the picture the same size by taking it back farther. With built-in zoom, you DO get a brighter image by zooming as large/close as possible, but I wouldn't bet on an external lens helping as much for this (though it'd be great if someone were to put it to the test).

I had an enjoyable time using a 400 actual lumen projector on a 25ft-wide screen..and later found I could just barely stand it at 40ft-wide. Your acer puts out around 650 actual lumens (if you want colors anyway) and it should be plenty of fun if you keep expectations in check.

I also demand pictures and a story when you return. Yes, they still tell tales of the 3story 600inch screen to this day.
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It turned out pretty cool. Check out the images.


Quote:
Originally Posted by action_jackson View Post
I would just try it out without the lense first. With it being outside there is no limiting factor on the distance like the guy in the video. He was already back against the wall in his room and wanted the image bigger so that is the reason he introduced the lens into the mix. All you have to do is move the projector back further from the building to get the same results. The limiting factor will be keeping the image in focus at that distance. I have heard of many people going well beyond their projectors rated size and have been pleased with the results. Your projector is rated at 3000 lumens so it should be plenty bright to go big, maybe not 70 foot big though.

Let us know how it turns out.
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post #11 of 14 Old 08-09-2014, 06:19 PM
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If you've got a phone with a headphone output, try that into your radio..you might've accidentally plugged the computer's 1/8" mic-input into the stereo instead of its headphone out. Easy enough to do in the dark if it has one (they're always side-by-side it seems).

You'll keep getting dimmer as you get bigger no matter what, but until you reach the point that you don't like how it looks there's no reason to stop. Thanks for the pictures. The human shadow next to it looks like a toy with it that huge.

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post #12 of 14 Old 08-09-2014, 09:51 PM
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Originally Posted by cpincforums View Post
It turned out pretty cool. Check out the images.
Cool! I always wanted to try that with mine but have not had a chance to yet. That image looks huge!
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post #13 of 14 Old 08-17-2014, 08:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Cool! I always wanted to try that with mine but have not had a chance to yet. That image looks huge!
UPDATE:


Yeah it is a big image. I am hoping to buy the lens in a couple of weeks. I am going to try to post more photos as I progress with this project. I've been busy though.
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post #14 of 14 Old 08-17-2014, 11:37 AM
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An add-on lens will never increase brightness, but will ALWAYS decrease brightness at the same image size. If the image is made larger by the lens, it will decrease in brightness by even more.

The reason projectors are brighter as you move them closer (keeping the image size the same) is because the aperture inside the lens opens up, allowing more light through the lens system. Every layer of glass beyond that reduces brightness and image quality. This is part of the photographic standard which has over 100 years of science behind it. ANY lens added to a series of lenses will reduce brightness, and the worst piece of glass in the system is the one which will impact image quality the most.

Hence, why photographers strive for the best lenses they can get their hands on and pay well more than we are paying for entire projection setups for just a single lens.

That said, I have used cheap wide-angle lenses when shooting video and have been happy with the results I've gotten, and I would expect with projection you can get a larger image from the same distance without problem. Still, any increase in size will reduce brightness appropriately and the addition of the lens will reduce brightness a bit as well.

Still, it looks like a fun setup, and if you think there is room to make it bigger, than do so.

BUT: Why buy the lens?

If you want the image size bigger, what happens if you move the projector back further? This may not be ideal for your final setup, but certainly for testing purposes you could move the projector back some can't you? (maybe you can't) But, if you can, do so, and see how large you can go. Move it back 20 or 30 feet or more, and see what the results are.

If you think the image gets too dim, then this is exactly what will happen when using an add-on lens. You could buy it and find out for yourself, but it will happen no matter what I promise you.

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