Recommendations for bright PJ to throw 150" @ 17ft - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 29 Old 08-11-2014, 06:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Recommendations for bright PJ to throw 150" @ 17ft

Hi folks, used to be active here, but got my new place sorted and kind of wandered off and lost track of the PJ world. (For a long time I was waiting/hoping for laser PJs to become mainstream but I kind of suspect that still hasn't happened.)

Right now I'm running an Epson HomeCinema 400 which was selected because it was considered a "light cannon" with good contrast back in the day, and it can throw a big picture. I have a 150" Elite screen and the PJ is mounted overhead upside down, more or less even with the top of the screen (so significant vertical shift is needed), at a throw distance of about 17.5 feet, which means it just barely fills the screen. High brightness is a must, it's a large open-plan entertainment area and we often have lights on while we watch. We use our PJ daily as our television.

We've decided to retire this PJ to the bedroom, so I'm hoping a few of you who spend a lot of time in the PJ world will give me a good shopping list for replacements to consider. I'd like to stay under $2K. Oh and the wife got the 3D bug -- I hate the glasses but 3D support would be nice. I strongly prefer LCD to DLP and HDMI is my only input (I finally gave up the component-only fight). 1080p is plenty for me, I'm not too worried about 2K or 4K at this point in time (though I wouldn't kick it out of bed for the right price).

Thanks in advance!
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post #2 of 29 Old 08-11-2014, 07:06 AM
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If you could reeeeally stretch your budget up to $3000, Sony has a laser LCD that puts out around 4000lumens and will make that throw/size. Way out of budget, but sounds like a neat collection of things you'd like.
Edit: doublechecked the price..I was way off, it's around $4500. Sorry crap, that would've been really cool.

The Epson 3020 is around $1600-1700, full HD with 3D and brighter than your old Epson. Sometimes the Panasonic ae8000 comes down to $1900 and is also fullHD, 3D, bright, and has very solid contrast for nighttime viewing as well.

There's also the cheaper Epson 2030/2000, but that would have to be mounted slightly below the top of your screen and its contrast is poorer than everything else listed. It is still a fullHD 3D LCD, and it can be found around or below $1000.

Simple <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room, build in a day, takedown in an hour.
Easy $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.

Last edited by Ftoast; 08-11-2014 at 07:26 AM.
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post #3 of 29 Old 08-11-2014, 07:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ftoast View Post
If you could reeeeally stretch your budget up to $3000, Sony has a laser LCD that puts out around 4000lumens and will make that throw/size. Way out of budget, but sounds like a neat collection of things you'd like.
Edit: doublechecked the price..I was way off, it's around $4500. Sorry crap, that would've been really cool.
Thanks for the thought, sounds like laser might finally become an option on the next upgrade cycle. Not a fan of Sony, though, so that's two strikes!
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post #4 of 29 Old 08-12-2014, 05:07 PM - Thread Starter
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That Epson 2030 is looking pretty nice...
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post #5 of 29 Old 08-12-2014, 05:50 PM
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Originally Posted by McGuireV10 View Post
That Epson 2030 is looking pretty nice...
I'm not a fan of its lower contrast but many users like it all the same and it is a very bright projector.
If you're looking at the 2030 (not to be confused with the 3020), look instead at the 2000. The 2000 and 2030 is the same projector but the 2000 is usually about $200 cheaper.

Simple <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room, build in a day, takedown in an hour.
Easy $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
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post #6 of 29 Old 08-13-2014, 03:57 AM - Thread Starter
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Interesting, thanks, but coming from the 400, the 2000 has worse specs (dimmer, worse contrast) whereas the 2030 is better.

However, the lack of vertical lens shift is a big (and surprising) concern.

My PJ sits on a shelf about 9' off the floor, flipped upside down (annoying since the Epson HC400 has a rounded topside). This is nearly even with the top of the screen but it requires the maximum vertical offset.

It sounds like the odd default shift of the 2030 *might* be pretty close to what I need but it would be a big gamble, even with a good return policy.

Starting to worry I may need to up my budget considerably and look at the Panny AT5000E, or even the Epson 4030 or 5030UB... which is about the max I would consider at this point in time.

I was pretty excited about $100 bulbs after years of $360 replacements!
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post #7 of 29 Old 08-13-2014, 05:55 AM
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My 2030 is actually pretty good, even with my blinds open during the day, and I haven't darkened the walls yet.
As far as mounting, with the 2030 and a ceiling mount you'll need to be about 5.25" below the top of your screen for it to line up properly, but you'll have to move in closer than 17.5'for 150", you'll need to be more around 14-16'.
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post #8 of 29 Old 08-13-2014, 06:17 AM - Thread Starter
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Ah good catch, that's definitely a deal-killer. It isn't ceiling mounted, the ceiling is 22' up -- there is a large cross-beam through the room at about 18' back and I have a small glass shelf mounted to that, wiring is channeled there, etc, so position is pretty much non-negotiable at that point.

I should probably spend some quality time with the Projector Central calculator. Pretty much everything is brighter these days but I forgot how PJ manufacturers started moving to smaller-throw setups.

I suppose the question is whether to go with the older Panny or cough up some dough for fancy and new.
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post #9 of 29 Old 08-13-2014, 09:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Ah what the heck... Epson 5030UB it is!
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post #10 of 29 Old 08-13-2014, 11:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McGuireV10 View Post
Ah what the heck... Epson 5030UB it is!
You won't be disappointed
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post #11 of 29 Old 08-13-2014, 12:33 PM
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The Sony hw40 is another good contender around or often under the 5030ub's price with a better 2D picture and also very good lens-shift and zoom. The Epson is usually stated as having better (smoother) 3D.

Simple <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room, build in a day, takedown in an hour.
Easy $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
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post #12 of 29 Old 08-13-2014, 06:28 PM
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Panasonic AE8000
Epson 5030UB
or the Sony VPL-HW40ES

The Sony gets my nod, but you've already stated your love for Sony is not where it is supposed to be.

So, the 5030UB or the AE8000 are solid choices.

AV Integrated - Theater, whole house audio, and technology installation in the Washington DC metro area.
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post #13 of 29 Old 08-13-2014, 08:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by AV_Integrated View Post
Panasonic AE8000
Epson 5030UB
or the Sony VPL-HW40ES

The Sony gets my nod, but you've already stated your love for Sony is not where it is supposed to be.

So, the 5030UB or the AE8000 are solid choices.
LOL... in the late 80s something along the lines of Hi-Fi Magazine (I forget the name, it was one of the better magazines that was all about the good stuff) did detailed tear downs of many of what we'd now call Sony's "prosumer" grade equipment, to the point of tracking down capacitor batch numbers and so on, and found it was nearly all generic Chinese junk-bin components.

Lost all respect.

Maybe they're all that way, but I see no reason to go with the proven marketing fluff. Add that to their stalwart support of copy protection and other restrictions -- the miserable cluster we call HDCP was largely their fault -- and I'm not losing any sleep not sending them my hard-earned cash.

/rant
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post #14 of 29 Old 08-14-2014, 03:03 PM - Thread Starter
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First-World Problems: When I ordered it, I was thinking, "Oh it isn't that much bigger than the 400..."
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post #15 of 29 Old 08-14-2014, 03:37 PM - Thread Starter
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You won't be disappointed
It isn't even dark yet and I'm impressed.
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post #16 of 29 Old 08-14-2014, 04:28 PM
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I am in a very similar situation and have been following this thread and was wondering why you choose the 5030 over the 3020. The seem to be the same brightness and have similar thows but the 3020 is a grand less.
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post #17 of 29 Old 08-14-2014, 04:38 PM - Thread Starter
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I am in a very similar situation and have been following this thread and was wondering why you choose the 5030 over the 3020. The seem to be the same brightness and have similar thows but the 3020 is a grand less.
My setup absolutely requires lens shift.

On my old 800x600 Epson in my master bedroom (which will be replaced by my 400), I also have a shelf-mount well above the screen position, and I had to resort to propping up the back of the unit and using aggressive keystone correction. It's very watchable for the rare occasions we actually use it but the keystone "dead zones" are still faintly lit and sort of annoying.

I definitely didn't want that on my 150" screen in the main room!
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post #18 of 29 Old 08-14-2014, 04:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by randolfW View Post
I am in a very similar situation and have been following this thread and was wondering why you choose the 5030 over the 3020. The seem to be the same brightness and have similar thows but the 3020 is a grand less.
On top of all that, the 5030 has a HUGE contrast and black-level advantage over the 3020 in a dark room.

For perspective the 3020 is bested by the w1070 in contrast while the 5030ub bests the w1070 by about 3X. It's a pretty big difference in the dark.

Simple <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room, build in a day, takedown in an hour.
Easy $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
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post #19 of 29 Old 08-14-2014, 04:59 PM
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I have a 20 x 23 foot room with a vaulted ceiling running the long direction and want to project from the down slope of the vaulted ceiling across the room but above the screen. So I have a nearly identical situation, roughly a 18 foot throw with a 150" screen. Sounds like I would need to lens shift down, which is what you are describing, right?

On a side note, how is the fan noise?
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post #20 of 29 Old 08-14-2014, 09:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Yup, the lens shift down did the trick and there was probably another 50% worth of screen left had I needed it. Extremely flexible -- and unlike the 400 I didn't have to flip it upside down to make it work!

The fan on my 400 was very noticeable. The 5030 is totally silent for all intents and purposes, and we ran it on max power and max brightness. We heared the door that protects the lens on startup and shutdown but that's about it.

I loathe HDMI, that's really the only weak spot of my setup and it isn't the PJ's fault, analog is on the way out, sadly. (Did I mention I hate Sony? lol)

We watched it for hours tonight and except for HDMI issues -- very likely bandwidth shortfalls and/or line noise due to the cheap wiring my low-volt guys screwed me with during the build -- the PJ itself was simply amazing.

My only real complaint is that its HDMI processing doesn't seem very tolerant of data problems. I have a "for use in full daylight" 50" LG LCD TV on the floor under the screen and it was perfectly happy with the 1080P signal, but when the PJ had the slightest interruption, it would often get hung on the "HDMI / Not Compatible" error (whereas the LCD TV didn't even flicker, despite being fed by the same splitter) and considerable fiddling was required to get it to re-sync. It seems to be VERY sensitive to wiring quality.

For the sake of Domestic Tranqility I backed off to 1080i (which honestly looks as good at that distance) but I foresee winter re-wiring projects in my future.

Oh yeah, we watched an hour of FarScape and that "Super Resolution" thing meant to improve SD is pretty amazing, too.

Overall, I love it.
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post #21 of 29 Old 08-28-2014, 12:17 AM
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im glad your enjoying it
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post #22 of 29 Old 08-29-2014, 12:22 PM
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I'm in a very similar situation and am considering the w1070 or the hd25-lv (or the hd-50 if it ever comes out). Why did you not consider these two models for your setup and why did you choose the one you did choose?
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post #23 of 29 Old 08-29-2014, 12:28 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm in a very similar situation and am considering the w1070 or the hd25-lv (or the hd-50 if it ever comes out). Why did you not consider these two models for your setup and why did you choose the one you did choose?
Although I didn't really do a full survey of all the options, at a glance the HD25-LV doesn't have lens shift which was absolutely necessary in my setup, and the W1070 is DLP, which I dislike. Also neither of them compare in terms of contrast, and their rated brightness is lower. On top of that, I'm becoming something of an Epson loyalist at this point!
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post #24 of 29 Old 08-29-2014, 01:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McGuireV10 View Post
Although I didn't really do a full survey of all the options, at a glance the HD25-LV doesn't have lens shift which was absolutely necessary in my setup, and the W1070 is DLP, which I dislike. Also neither of them compare in terms of contrast, and their rated brightness is lower. On top of that, I'm becoming something of an Epson loyalist at this point!
Just spent two hours last night at B&H playing around with their projectors side by side on their big off white wall. The 2030 had good sharpness, detail, brightness, and color. But the 5030 had all of that plus deep blacks. At the store they have Madagascar 3 playing in a continuous loop. In the circus scenes, there are a lot of dark scenes. At this part of the movie, you can easily see the difference in Blacks between projectors. During these scenes, the Epson 5030 and the Panasonic 8000 had very deep, dark blacks. The Benq 1070 and the panasonic ar100u had blacks that were a bit lighter but still good. The Epson 2030 had the worse blacks of the all projectors (the blacks looked a tad purplish at times)
on display. Even the optoma mini projector had better blacks.(but was much dimmer) Not a perfect evaluation environment, but the situation was equal for all the projectors.
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post #25 of 29 Old 08-29-2014, 05:36 PM - Thread Starter
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This is an utterly *terrible* photo from my phone, but I wanted to get a photo of how usable it is for regular old TV in a VERY bright room.

This photo is seriously bad, the photo looks far more washed-out than it does in person because my phone has trouble coping with the bright lights from the windows. Assume the contrast is about twice as good as how it looks here -- and remember that I have eight windows in that wall, three more windows behind me, and big glass doors and other windows on the other side -- it says a lot about what this thing can do.

Anybody can make a pretty picture in a dark room.
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post #26 of 29 Old 08-29-2014, 06:13 PM
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Looks at picture.
Is...is that the "onion knight"?
It IS nice that they decided to make such a good darkroom projector also impressively bright for daytime use.

To ben38; it's weird that builds like the 8345/8350 don't become more popular, though it's funny for anyone who likes DLP that a $350 obile device can easily beat the contrast of a $1000-1600 LCD

Editor is going crazy. Stupid glitches.

Simple <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room, build in a day, takedown in an hour.
Easy $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.

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post #27 of 29 Old 08-29-2014, 06:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ftoast View Post
Looks at picture.
Is...is that the "onion knight"?
No idea, my wife was catching up on some old Dr. Who...

For the sake of fair play, at night, the picture is just stunning... (again, you can't really tell from the crappy camera phone... and we *still* have lights on in the kitchen about 20 feet away directly opposite the screen).
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post #28 of 29 Old 08-29-2014, 07:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ftoast View Post
Looks at picture.
Is...is that the "onion knight"?
It IS nice that they decided to make such a good darkroom projector also impressively bright for daytime use.

To ben38; it's weird that builds like the 8345/8350 don't become more popular, though it's funny for anyone who likes DLP that a $350 obile device can easily beat the contrast of a $1000-1600 LCD

Editor is going crazy. Stupid glitches.
Yeah. When i saw the picture coming out of that little thing, (Optoma ml550) i grabbed it and picked it up to make sure it was really projecting. It wasn't very bright at 100 inches, but the color and detail was excellent, and the contrast definitely beat the Epson 2030. What a shock. Wonder what the 750 looks like?

Sorry for going off subject.
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post #29 of 29 Old 08-29-2014, 09:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ben38 View Post
Yeah. When i saw the picture coming out of that little thing, (Optoma ml550) i grabbed it and picked it up to make sure it was really projecting. It wasn't very bright at 100 inches, but the color and detail was excellent, and the contrast definitely beat the Epson 2030. What a shock. Wonder what the 750 looks like?

Sorry for going off subject.
The LED models haven't really advanced enough to get brighter than the 550 and DLP under $2000-2500 won't really beat its contrast by enough to notice, so the only things the 750 can upgrade are software (unlikely to find much software difference inside the same brand), inputs and interface (not usually adding much or anything significant), or empty promises (which are always a bummer).

To MacGuireV10; that picture just looks soooo, and the colors so golden and pleasant. It's pretty striking. Looks like it's amazing once those lights go down.

Simple <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room, build in a day, takedown in an hour.
Easy $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
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