Epson 5030UB vs Sony VPL-HW40ES, anyone else wrestling? - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 663 Old 09-03-2014, 11:54 AM - Thread Starter
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Epson 5030UB vs Sony VPL-HW40ES, anyone else wrestling?

I have decided to move on from my good old Epson 8350 and enter the 3D era. My budget is approximately $2750 and so the best choices seem to be the Epson 5030UB and the Sony VPL-HW40ES. Now that the CEDIA 2014 news has come out and Epson seems to not be introducing a new model in this range, I guess the fight is on.

Since gaming is going to be very important to me, I am leaning towards the Sony even though it will be more expensive. It should look better than the Epson even in its fastest input mode.

If you're in the same boat, let me know what you think.

Epson Pros:
I already know and like Epsons in general, and know mounting will work
RF glasses, and allegedly better 3D than the Sony
2 glasses included
Better black levels than the Sony
I think the specs say bulb life is better than the Sony
Cheaper overall once you factor in glasses

Epson Cons:
Some screen door effect (which I do see on my 8350, though it doesn't bug me)
No gaming mode but "fast mode" is 37 ms lag at the cost of a softer picture
Louder (but not bad)

Sony Pros:
Quieter
Better color accuracy
Lower input lag at 26.5 ms
Brighter in all modes
Built in panel adjustment lets the user correct for small convergence errors
No screen door effect (which I think I will enjoy once I see it)

Sony Cons:
IR glasses, RF is extra cost via 3rd party gear
No glasses included
More expensive once you buy glasses
Blacks not as good due to no dynamic iris (but I don't much like the iris on my 8350 anyway, though maybe the 5030 is better)
Less flexible placement (but still probably OK for my existing mount)
Not as bright as the 5030 (I have seen conflicting reports on this)

Here is an article discussing the duo, and the author concludes the Sony is better.

http://thewirecutter.com/reviews/an-awesome-projector/
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post #2 of 663 Old 09-03-2014, 12:41 PM
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I am debating exactly the same thing. Looking to upgrade a nearly 4 year old 8350 with almost 10k hours (primary display). I would have already purchased the 5030 if it had a game mode or slightly less input lag. I take my racing sims and shooting games pretty seriously, lol. Dynamic Iris (always left off) and 3D are not important to me.

Still strongly considering the HW40 although the zoom lens is not flexible enough for my longish room so I would need to upgrade to a larger screen (not exactly a bad thing). I currently have a rear shelf mount with ~18ft. throw to a 92" HP 2.8 gain screen that has served me well since the days of dimmer 720p LCD units. Perhaps it is time to let go of the HP screen and get a new 120" screen to compliment the HW40. I was really hoping that Epson would announce a 5030 successor with improved input lag so I could just pop it in place of the 8350.

If I could get the HW40 to work with my current screen setup I would have pulled the trigger during the last sale. Of course, sony just announced the VW300 which checks all of the right boxes, except budget...

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post #3 of 663 Old 09-03-2014, 12:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny_H View Post
I was really hoping that Epson would announce a 5030 successor with improved input lag so I could just pop it in place of the 8350.
Yep, sounds like we are in the same boat except I do want to do PC games in 3D as well. I realize it is a big compromise on a PJ compared to a monitor, but I still expect to enjoy it.

In my case I think I can re-use my 8350 mount position... I used one of the online calculators but I will ask for second opinions in the Sony thread, if I'm getting one.

To really make the call I am going to need to see some user feedback on the Sony's 3d and specifically the expense of glasses.
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post #4 of 663 Old 09-04-2014, 09:33 PM
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I am in the same boat as you. I was looking at the Epson 5030, but the input lag really bothered me. I am paying close to $3000, and I can't get acceptable lag without diminishing the picture quality? It pisses me off a bit, especially when Panasonic uses Epson panels for very low input lag. CEDIA is here right away, I would wait to hear what the new Epson line is, and then make your decision. That is what I decided to do, only 2 weeks away.
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post #5 of 663 Old 09-05-2014, 06:14 AM
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Well their seems to be a bunch of us wanting upgrade. I also have been using a 8350 for 4 years, I just added a darbee and the pic on my 125in 2.35 screen is very good. If I did not want 3d I would be fine with the 8350' The 5030 would give better blacks and 3d but at a cost. I only use my pj for movies so my main priority are color' blacks' and lens shift' zoom range. I have also been looking at the hw40 but for me the better blacks and much better 3d with RF emitter and 2 pairs of glasses plus brighter 3d options is a huge plus over the hw40. The sony I would have to buy the xpand rf for $200 plus glasses. I was also hoping for something new from Epson to replace the 5030' but no luck. I will wait a little longer and see if Epson offers any incentives or better price on the 5030. I pretty much took the hw40 off the list. If Sony drops the price on the 55 to around $3000 I might have to grab it' but that is just dreaming. The 5030 is a killer pj that does alot right. Best blacks their are unless you go up to the JVC's line. Way better 3d than the JVC. line. Time will tell
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post #6 of 663 Old 09-05-2014, 09:05 AM
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I am also debating this but throwing the Panasonic AE 8000 into the mix due to motorized zoom for 2.35:1 screen. Anyone having that thought too?
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post #7 of 663 Old 09-05-2014, 09:52 AM - Thread Starter
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The AE8000 could be a contender, I guess--for me, it would come down to image quality in "gaming" mode vs the Epson. That's something that is hard to get from reviews.
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post #8 of 663 Old 09-05-2014, 02:17 PM
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I was settled on the HW40ES but now with the New 4K Sony VPL-VW 300 for about $7000 I think I'm gonna keep my VW40 for two more years and wait for 4K to break the $5000 barrier.

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post #9 of 663 Old 09-07-2014, 07:04 PM
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Today out of nowhere I decided to replace my 65" VT60 Panny plasma with a projector and 135" screen, so I'm in the same boat. Before finding this thread, I'd narrowed it down to the HW40, the 5030UB, a refurb 5020 for $1800 and the BenQ W1070. At about 1/4 of the cost I'm considering the BenQ so I take less of a hit when that perfect projector comes along. I figure my darby might fill in some shortcomings minus the blacks or quality 3D gaming I'm looking for.
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post #10 of 663 Old 09-08-2014, 08:10 AM - Thread Starter
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Did y'all see the other thread with the rumor the HW40ES may be discontinued? Hope that turns out to be untrue. Even if I don't buy one, competition in this segment is good.
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post #11 of 663 Old 09-08-2014, 09:22 PM
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Guys I am in same boat. Moving to a new home soon. Will be using unfinished basement as main tv room with TV and projector both. I am planning to paint ceiling beams black and have a beige carpet with darker walls. How bad is gaming on 5030. I read the Sony is much better in gaming. I will be buying ps4 later next year. Also do u guys know how I can connect DVR to both projrctor and HDTV at the same time. Thanks.
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post #12 of 663 Old 09-09-2014, 07:29 AM
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I just purchased the Epson 5030ub last weekend, and I couldn't be happier! The picture really is breathtaking and 3D is amazing. For me the dynamic iris was the deciding factor between the Epson and the sony. I really like what it does. I know the sony is great too, and I really don't think you can go wrong with either of them.


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post #13 of 663 Old 09-09-2014, 08:39 AM
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http://www.insideci.co.uk/news/ifa-2...rojectors.aspx

From looking at the new Epson projector announcements at the IFA2014 show, It looks like Epson's new midrange projector has a focus on gaming performance. In the coming weeks we'll see how it really stacks up. If the price is right, this one could be a contender.
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post #14 of 663 Old 09-09-2014, 11:42 AM
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I am not at all a fan of what a dynamic iris does to the image. So, with the DI turned off, the Sony does a better job natively with contrast levels.

As well, almost all reports of the PS3 IR 3D glasses working spectacularly with the projector make RF a non-issue. I've used DLP-Link for a while now and don't have any issues there either, so I'm not sure why people get so hung up on the 3D technology unless they've tried it and know it's not a good one for them. My opinion is that the 40ES is a bit better overall product than the 5030. Not a ton better, but considering that you can pick up the PS3 3D glasses for not a lot of cash, and they work well, you get a good price savings on the Sony and a better overall product.
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post #15 of 663 Old 09-09-2014, 11:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ben38 View Post
From looking at the new Epson projector announcements at the IFA2014 show, It looks like Epson's new midrange projector has a focus on gaming performance...
Wow, good news. I thought we weren't getting anything interesting from Epson in the midrange this year.
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post #16 of 663 Old 09-09-2014, 03:14 PM
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I just went through this same ordeal, and decided to demo each projector in my home for a month. Thanks Best Buy Elite. I decided on the Sony. The biggest difference for me was the Sony was just so sharp with the reality creation on. I did have to employee light NR but after that is is incredible. Also the colors on the Sony blow away the Epson, with very little calibration. All that said if you are looking for a lot of 3d content I would get the Epson. The motion during 3d is far smoother on the Epson, and just a better experience. The lag difference for gaming is noticeable if you are looking for it but not really significant. And during game play you do not notice the difference in PQ, on the Epson. It all depends on your preference. Hope this helps.
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post #17 of 663 Old 09-09-2014, 03:22 PM - Thread Starter
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igotthebug -- That is very helpful, thanks!

ben38 -- I looked in to the EH-TW6600W and it seems to be an older model which has now received lens shift. Not sure it will even be available in the US, or how it compares to the 5030UB if it is.
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post #18 of 663 Old 09-09-2014, 06:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by igotthebug View Post
I just went through this same ordeal, and decided to demo each projector in my home for a month. Thanks Best Buy Elite. I decided on the Sony. The biggest difference for me was the Sony was just so sharp with the reality creation on. I did have to employee light NR but after that is is incredible. Also the colors on the Sony blow away the Epson, with very little calibration. All that said if you are looking for a lot of 3d content I would get the Epson. The motion during 3d is far smoother on the Epson, and just a better experience. The lag difference for gaming is noticeable if you are looking for it but not really significant. And during game play you do not notice the difference in PQ, on the Epson. It all depends on your preference. Hope this helps.
Have you ever actually seen 3D on both? The 3D on the Sony is incredibly smooth, almost to a fault. It's better than the 3D on my BenQ w1070, and everyone said 3D is better on DLP. Well that was not true in my experience. I fail to see how it could even be possible for the motion to be "far smoother" on the Epson when the Sony has faster response times, far faster in fact. And it looks rock solid. So yeah, dunno about that.
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post #19 of 663 Old 09-09-2014, 06:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by horseflesh View Post
igotthebug -- That is very helpful, thanks!

ben38 -- I looked in to the EH-TW6600W and it seems to be an older model which has now received lens shift. Not sure it will even be available in the US, or how it compares to the 5030UB if it is.
Design wise, it looks like Epson is going back to the look of the original 1080ub. Styles change i guess. What was once old is new again.

This is indeed a brand new projector under the hood. It's obviously meant to replace the 3020 and the very long in the tooth 8350/45 by combining the relative strengths of both projectors. The 3020 is super bright, but did not have lens shift. The 8350/45 could achieve decent black levels, but it's contrast has always been held back by its relatively weak peak whites, (a 200 watt bulb can only go so far) and it lacks newer features such as 3D. Here's a german video from youtube showing off the new projector.


The new projector has a new 250 watt lamp which Epson says can put out 2500 lumens. Since the 3020 (with a 230 watt lamp) is able to put out over 1900 real world lumens in dynamic mode, and over 1300 lumens in it's best cinema mode, I would expect the new projector to be even brighter.
Unfortunately, the big Fuji lens on the 8350/45 wont be used. The Zoom is limited to 1.6:1 and the lens shift is not as far reaching as the 8350/45, but still has a lot of room to maneuver. Can't have it all i guess.
Overall, I'm excited about this new unit, and I'm hoping Epson wont price it too high.
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post #20 of 663 Old 09-09-2014, 07:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Very interesting. Can't wait for reviews.
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post #21 of 663 Old 09-10-2014, 05:42 AM
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Here we go new projectors' yippe yi yey
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post #22 of 663 Old 09-10-2014, 07:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Here's the news on the US 3000, 3500, 3600e.

http://www.cnet.com/news/epson-sheds...00-projectors/

Nooooooo, no 5000 series update...
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post #23 of 663 Old 09-10-2014, 07:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by horseflesh View Post
Here's the news on the US 3000, 3500, 3600e.

http://www.cnet.com/news/epson-sheds...00-projectors/

Nooooooo, no 5000 series update...
Epson is releasing a software update for the 5030 that adds new features. No new 5000 series.
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post #24 of 663 Old 09-10-2014, 07:58 AM - Thread Starter
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Any idea what the new features will be?
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post #25 of 663 Old 09-11-2014, 08:21 AM
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subscribing to the thread. I didn't think I cared about 3D until I had it on my 5030 and loved it, and then we moved and sold everything. When comparing these two it seems the Epson has a 3D edge. Admittedly most of my viewing is football in 2D though, so in reality very little 3D. The kids love it for their movies, but they aren't being critical viewers either.

I was really hoping for an update to the 5030. I kept all my RF glasses when we moved, not a small investment since I bought 3 extra of the Epson rechargeable ones and several cheap Samsung battery powered ones. I was about to pull the trigger on the Sony just to try something different, but then realized I'd have to get $300 worth of third party gear to use my $300 worth of glasses.

So I either go with the Sony and buy new IR glasses, get the RF emitter, or just stick with the 5030 and gain another pair of glasses for a total of 8 now, which is a known for me having owned one (and been very happy) but there's a little part that wonders if the grass is greener with a Sony. I hear it's brighter and sharper. On my 110 screen the epson wasn't exactly razor sharp, maybe nothing short of 4k will be though.

I don't care about gaming, so lag is a non-issue. I have small kids, they play WiiU on the plasma. No lag there.
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post #26 of 663 Old 09-11-2014, 01:05 PM
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rprice54 Just add a Darbee to any epson and the pic is pretty darn sharp. Did wonders on my 8350 and 125 in 2.35 screen. I guess with the Sony or these new Faux 4k fp it would not be needed. Though I do where some here still use their darbee with the hw40
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post #27 of 663 Old 09-11-2014, 02:34 PM
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Uhhg I'm going to be in the market for a PJ in the next few months and had been planning on the 5030ub all this time while building my basement. I really havn't researched this new sony much but when it comes to time to buy something I want to get the best I can for my price range wich is where the 5030 falls in. I was hoping for an update to that model since it falls in perfect timing with when I'll be in the market. too bad I can't just get the new laser! hehehe! Man what to do what to do??
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post #28 of 663 Old 09-11-2014, 02:37 PM - Thread Starter
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If you DO care about having a dynamic iris, want maximum 3D quality, and DON'T care about gaming, the 5030 seems like the winner. The Sony is also very credible from all I have read and still gets the nod in some comparisons. There is probably no bad choice, but a specific need like gaming or 3D quality can make the difference for you.
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post #29 of 663 Old 09-11-2014, 02:54 PM
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Epson 5030UB vs Sony VPL-HW40ES, anyone else wrestling?

Guess i will follow along...

Looking at the sony, epson and panasonic...

Currently running the sanyo plv z3000 on a 120" screen.... Its been a good receiver but i know a upgrade will make me smile again...


I do alot of xbox gaming and stream a bunch of movies....

3D would be nice but wondering if I would need to replace all my equipment.

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post #30 of 663 Old 09-11-2014, 06:39 PM
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Same boat here. Replacing a six year old Sanyo PLV-2000 (15,000:1 quoted contrast ratio).

It looks like Epson is holding with the 5030 until budget 4Ks appear. Personally I am thinking of getting the brand new Home Cinema 3000 ($1,300 for 60,000:1) as a stop gap. The Sony VPL-HW40ES is now below $2K shipped so I might try that and resell when an LCoS with killer black levels appear. I tried buying a HW40ES six weeks ago via one of those cheap NJ outfits and they never shipped. The HW40ES is now under $2K on Amazon who I am sure will ship.

My theory is going from 15,000:1 to 60,000:1 with six years newer electronics will be a stunning difference.

Affordable 4K is not far away and it's really easy to sell well kept tech gear via eBay or Amazon so I am leery of buying an LCD projector for $2,500 that does not even have a 480Hz refresh for 3D.

Saying all that people seem to love the 5030; it's $2,500 but compares well with more expensive JVCs so is likely worth it.

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