Epson Home Cinema 3000/3500/3600e Owners Thread - Page 6 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #151 of 1128 Old 11-16-2014, 10:45 AM
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@ben38 is absolutely right. I had been using a 10 year old sanyo z2 and I guess that hid a lot of that.
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post #152 of 1128 Old 11-16-2014, 10:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ben38 View Post
The problems Eric McEntee is experiencing is the same thing i saw last week when i did a long evaluation of the hc3000, hc3500, benq1075, and even the Sony hw40es.
So What's wrong? On the hardware side, nothing much.
The 1080p projectors making it onto the market now are so good at resolving detail that bad transfers and compressed broadcasts are so easy to see now that we start thinking something is wrong with our equipment, when in fact the opposite is true.
Our equipment is now too good for the junk that's being fed into them.
Heavily compressed sports broadcasts from cable and satellite looked fine on our 50 inch plasmas and at our local bars. But the more critical eye of a late model 1080p projector on a 100 inch plus screen brings out all the flaws and shows us what a lousy job the broadcasters are actually doing in keeping up with the rising quality of our playback equipment.
Our snazzy new equipment will even show all the flaws on poorly tranferred films on high quality bluray discs.
Let's not forget, High def broadcasts and blurays came along when we mostly had either small 50 inch tv's or 720p projectors.
Was there a big difference in image quality between the BenQ 1075 and the HC3500? I know blacks might be a little better but how was color and sharpness? I have the BenQ W1070 which is just about the same as the 1075 and just curious if its worth the upgrade?

Thanks
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post #153 of 1128 Old 11-16-2014, 11:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ben38 View Post
The problems Eric McEntee is experiencing is the same thing i saw last week when i did a long evaluation of the hc3000, hc3500, benq1075, and even the Sony hw40es.
So What's wrong? On the hardware side, nothing much.
The 1080p projectors making it onto the market now are so good at resolving detail that bad transfers and compressed broadcasts are so easy to see now that we start thinking something is wrong with our equipment, when in fact the opposite is true.
Our equipment is now too good for the junk that's being fed into them.
Heavily compressed sports broadcasts from cable and satellite looked fine on our 50 inch plasmas and at our local bars. But the more critical eye of a late model 1080p projector on a 100 inch plus screen brings out all the flaws and shows us what a lousy job the broadcasters are actually doing in keeping up with the rising quality of our playback equipment.
Our snazzy new equipment will even show all the flaws on poorly tranferred films on high quality bluray discs.
Let's not forget, High def broadcasts and blurays came along when we mostly had either small 50 inch tv's or 720p projectors.
So for the purposes of watching Directv I am better off just keeping my 720p Z4 instead of upgrading to the 3500? Would hate to purchase and find the Directv picture full of noticeable artifacts.
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post #154 of 1128 Old 11-16-2014, 12:22 PM
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So for the purposes of watching Directv I am better off just keeping my 720p Z4 instead of upgrading to the 3500? Would hate to purchase and find the Directv picture full of noticeable artifacts.
If you're happy with your Z4, stay with it. Directv isn't going to get any better on a newer projector.
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post #155 of 1128 Old 11-16-2014, 12:32 PM
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Originally Posted by dolphinc View Post
Was there a big difference in image quality between the BenQ 1075 and the HC3500? I know blacks might be a little better but how was color and sharpness? I have the BenQ W1070 which is just about the same as the 1075 and just curious if its worth the upgrade?

Thanks
If you're asking if it's worth upgrading to the 1075 from the 1070, i have to say, no. The image quality between the 1075 and 3500 is sort of a mixed bag. Can't really say one is better than the other. kind of busy now. I'll explain more in depth in a little while.
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post #156 of 1128 Old 11-16-2014, 12:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ben38 View Post
If you're asking if it's worth upgrading to the 1075 from the 1070, i have to say, no. The image quality between the 1075 and 3500 is sort of a mixed bag. Can't really say one is better than the other. kind of busy now. I'll explain more in depth in a little while.
Sorry I should have been more clear, I meant upgrading from the W1070 to the Epson 3500.
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post #157 of 1128 Old 11-16-2014, 07:10 PM
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Originally Posted by dolphinc View Post
Sorry I should have been more clear, I meant upgrading from the W1070 to the Epson 3500.
Okay, I'm back.
So. Should you upgrade to the 3500? My short answer is, No. Here's my long answer.

Living in Bushwick, Brooklyn, (the home projector capital of the world, i think) I see lots of projector setups. (my two immediate neighbors have projectors as well as 5 other units in my 50 unit loft building) One of my third floor neighbors (i live on the 4th floor) manages the projector section in a very large Manhattan electronics store. (Don't wanna mention the name right now) Sometimes, usually right after the store has closed its doors to customers for the day, I'm allowed to help my friend with setting up and adjusting the projectors.
Last thursday i spent 3 plus hours using the projectors in side by side comparisons on the big white wall. The wall is big enough for 3 pictures side by side at 100 inches each. This night, i was focused on the newest projectors, so i used the epson hc3500 and 3000, the benq1075, and the Optoma hd26. We spent the first hour or so adjusting all the projectors for the best brightness and contrast in their default picture modes. (living room for the Epsons, Standard for benq, and User for the Optoma because we couldn't figure out the best mode. Vivid was too unbalanced and reference was too dim for our store setting.)

Right off the bat, we really couldn't figure out how to make the Optoma look good without radically throwing off one thing or another. Turn off brilliant color to tame the blown out whites , and the blacks get hammered. Turn on brilliant color and the whites look unnatural even in the lowest setting. Of course, Reference mode takes care of this problem, but the projector is noticeably dimmer than the other projectors. (The store setting is not theater mode friendly. In a home theater setting, reference mode should be plenty bright) No matter what we tried, the picture lacked shadow detail and had a lot of grain. It also had a lot of rainbows. (I'm not really bothered by rainbows, but i can see them easily.) I gave up and finally shut it down. (My friend thought it looked great and wants to put one in his bedroom.)

Damn. Got to go to work. Will get back and continue as soon as i can.
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post #158 of 1128 Old 11-16-2014, 08:07 PM
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I picked up an Epson Home Cinema 3000 a week or so ago. I finally have it hung in my basement and the picture is great. I have one question. I can't get the component video to work. Both HDMI and composite video seem to work. I've tried short and long component cables and multiple sources. I'm trying to get an old 480i/480P source to work. Is there a trick to this or did I get a bad unit? Thanks!
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post #159 of 1128 Old 11-16-2014, 09:10 PM
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So after spending a weekend with the 3000 - have to say the picture is great, Directv Sunday Ticket looked a LOT better than college football (a little bit of artifacting around players and text, but was still good).

The deal breaker for me is just how bad games look. So far a fairly big difference in Fast vs Fine (PS3 games - Little Big Planet 2, Far Cry 3 Blood Dragon. PS4 - Knack, Madden).

If it wasn't for this issue, I couldn't be happier. Unfortunately I game 50%+ of the time. I can accept that PS3 games aren't going to be great. GTAV coming Tuesday, so that's kind of the last test for me.

Is there anyone here that has gamed on an 8345/8350 or 5030ub? Wondering if the 5030ub in fast has as dramatic a change. Also wondering if since the 8345/8350's are low lag if they just look like the 3000 in fine mode.

For those that haven't seen it - I think it was slyderulz earlier in the thread that described some of the issues - jaggies, a bit of a shimmer, poor shadow crawl, etc. I'll post some photos tomorrow of Madden in fine vs. fast - it illustrates it quite well.
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post #160 of 1128 Old 11-17-2014, 12:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dolphinc View Post
Sorry I should have been more clear, I meant upgrading from the W1070 to the Epson 3500.
Ok Dolphinc, I'm back. Sorry this is taking so long.

To continue,
After moving the Optoma out of the way, we set up three 100 inch images. The first was the benq1075, next to it was the Epson hc3500, and next to the 3500 was the hc3000.
To start with, all three projectors are really bright. You can probably watch any of these in a fully lit room, though in most situations, keeping these projectors in Eco mode mode should be more than bright enough. Between the 3500 and the 3000, I don't perceive any real differences in brightness between the two. I know for sure that both projectors run at the same power in Eco mode.
In terms of black levels, all three look about equal. The Epson's will give better blacks and contrast when the dynamic iris is in use. The Benq can probably match the Epsons in SmartEco mode or at least get close enough that the differences are not worth talking about. Although it's a very subtle difference, I thought the Epsons had slightly better shadow detail.
Where these projectors really differ is in color and sharpness. Even with the Benq's brilliant color turned on, the Epsons have brighter, punchier colors. The Benq's color seemed a little dull by comparison.
On the other hand, the Benq was a little bit sharper than both projectors even with the 3500's super resolution turned all the way up. The 3000 doesn't have super resolution, but can still get very sharp. (about as sharp as Super Resolution set to 2 out of 5) All three are sharp, but the Benq is the sharpest.
The Benq also still has an advantage in motion blur. The new Epsons are an improvement over earlier models, but lack of any CFI still put them behind the Benq.
We didn't run any of these projectors in 3D, so no comment.
In terms of projector noise, the Epsons were a little quieter, but none of these projectors are what i would consider quiet projectors.
To sum up: All three projectors are excellent performers. Although they have different strengths and weaknesses, i really can't say one is a better overall performer than the other. So your buying decision comes down to weather you need lens shift or if you're sensitive to DLP rainbows.

p.s. When i saw that the Benq's colors seemed a little dull to me, i turned on the 1070 (which was nearby) to compare with the 1075. Sure enough, the 1070's colors seemed to be slightly more vibrant to me with both projectors set at the same default. I had to turn up the 1075's color saturation up a couple of notches to compensate. Since there's no big differences in bulb life, i'm thinking the 1070 has slightly stronger color. I could be wrong.

That's all. Hope this long winded explanation helps in your decision.
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post #161 of 1128 Old 11-17-2014, 12:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric McEntee View Post
So after spending a weekend with the 3000 - have to say the picture is great, Directv Sunday Ticket looked a LOT better than college football (a little bit of artifacting around players and text, but was still good).

The deal breaker for me is just how bad games look. So far a fairly big difference in Fast vs Fine (PS3 games - Little Big Planet 2, Far Cry 3 Blood Dragon. PS4 - Knack, Madden).

If it wasn't for this issue, I couldn't be happier. Unfortunately I game 50%+ of the time. I can accept that PS3 games aren't going to be great. GTAV coming Tuesday, so that's kind of the last test for me.

Is there anyone here that has gamed on an 8345/8350 or 5030ub? Wondering if the 5030ub in fast has as dramatic a change. Also wondering if since the 8345/8350's are low lag if they just look like the 3000 in fine mode.

For those that haven't seen it - I think it was slyderulz earlier in the thread that described some of the issues - jaggies, a bit of a shimmer, poor shadow crawl, etc. I'll post some photos tomorrow of Madden in fine vs. fast - it illustrates it quite well.
I have an 8350, and it performs very well with games with no changes to the picture quality.
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post #162 of 1128 Old 11-17-2014, 12:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ben38 View Post
Ok Dolphinc, I'm back. Sorry this is taking so long.

To continue,
After moving the Optoma out of the way, we set up three 100 inch images. The first was the benq1075, next to it was the Epson hc3500, and next to the 3500 was the hc3000.
To start with, all three projectors are really bright. You can probably watch any of these in a fully lit room, though in most situations, keeping these projectors in Eco mode mode should be more than bright enough. Between the 3500 and the 3000, I don't perceive any real differences in brightness between the two. I know for sure that both projectors run at the same power in Eco mode.
In terms of black levels, all three look about equal. The Epson's will give better blacks and contrast when the dynamic iris is in use. The Benq can probably match the Epsons in SmartEco mode or at least get close enough that the differences are not worth talking about. Although it's a very subtle difference, I thought the Epsons had slightly better shadow detail.
Where these projectors really differ is in color and sharpness. Even with the Benq's brilliant color turned on, the Epsons have brighter, punchier colors. The Benq's color seemed a little dull by comparison.
On the other hand, the Benq was a little bit sharper than both projectors even with the 3500's super resolution turned all the way up. The 3000 doesn't have super resolution, but can still get very sharp. (about as sharp as Super Resolution set to 2 out of 5) All three are sharp, but the Benq is the sharpest.
The Benq also still has an advantage in motion blur. The new Epsons are an improvement over earlier models, but lack of any CFI still put them behind the Benq.
We didn't run any of these projectors in 3D, so no comment.
In terms of projector noise, the Epsons were a little quieter, but none of these projectors are what i would consider quiet projectors.
To sum up: All three projectors are excellent performers. Although they have different strengths and weaknesses, i really can't say one is a better overall performer than the other. So your buying decision comes down to weather you need lens shift or if you're sensitive to DLP rainbows.

p.s. When i saw that the Benq's colors seemed a little dull to me, i turned on the 1070 (which was nearby) to compare with the 1075. Sure enough, the 1070's colors seemed to be slightly more vibrant to me with both projectors set at the same default. I had to turn up the 1075's color saturation up a couple of notches to compensate. Since there's no big differences in bulb life, i'm thinking the 1070 has slightly stronger color. I could be wrong.

That's all. Hope this long winded explanation helps in your decision.
Wow, thanks Ben for the very detailed review. I decided I like my w1070 too much to change so I'll hold off to next year to see what shakes out.

I also have owed several projectors over the years from LCD, LCOS & DLP and to be honest I find DLP to be my favorite so I'll lean that way when ready.
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post #163 of 1128 Old 11-17-2014, 01:52 PM
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Originally Posted by dolphinc View Post
Wow, thanks Ben for the very detailed review. I decided I like my w1070 too much to change so I'll hold off to next year to see what shakes out.

I also have owed several projectors over the years from LCD, LCOS & DLP and to be honest I find DLP to be my favorite so I'll lean that way when ready.
A wise move my friend. Sometimes the best purchase is no purchase.
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post #164 of 1128 Old 11-17-2014, 02:04 PM
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A wise move my friend. Sometimes the best purchase is no purchase.
My bank account agrees with you completely!
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post #165 of 1128 Old 11-18-2014, 05:25 AM
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If you're happy with your Z4, stay with it. Directv isn't going to get any better on a newer projector.
Thanks for the input. I too have decided to keep my Z4 for now. It has over 4000 hours on it's original lamp and still has an excellent picture. Why mess with a good thing that I am satisfied with. You saved me $$$$$.
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post #166 of 1128 Old 11-18-2014, 11:51 PM
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I have a 3600e love the 3D on it watch mostly bluray movies where the pic is superb for that price. I also game alot but u haven't notice that much lag. I tried assassins creed unity all settings on max on my computer not lag at all. But when I tried my ps3 and played Cod warfare it couldn't keep up as well as my computer start to think it has more to do with the consol then the proj.
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post #167 of 1128 Old 11-19-2014, 12:47 PM
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So Im looking to purchase the 3500 for a media in a new home I bought.

Have a few questions. Im looking at around a 19ft throw distance from the wall, am I good with a 120" screen with a 1.0 gain?

Lastly, Im looking to ceiling mount this, what mounts is everyone using or can you provide a link of where I can buy a good quality mount?

Thanks,

Panny TH-50PE700U
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post #168 of 1128 Old 11-19-2014, 02:00 PM
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So Im looking to purchase the 3500 for a media in a new home I bought.

Have a few questions. Im looking at around a 19ft throw distance from the wall, am I good with a 120" screen with a 1.0 gain?

Lastly, Im looking to ceiling mount this, what mounts is everyone using or can you provide a link of where I can buy a good quality mount?

Thanks,
It looks like your throw is a little too far for a 120 inch screen.
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post #169 of 1128 Old 11-19-2014, 02:09 PM
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It looks like your throw is a little too far for a 120 inch screen.
Well glad I decided to ask because the projector central calculator said 19' was okay for 120". What throw distance would you recommend for a 120" screen?

Last edited by Vasichko; 11-19-2014 at 02:37 PM.
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post #170 of 1128 Old 11-19-2014, 04:51 PM
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Well glad I decided to ask because the projector central calculator said 19' was okay for 120". What throw distance would you recommend for a 120" screen?
The calculator shows you're using every last bit of your zoom to fill 120 inches at 19 feet. It might be less since the measurement is from screen to front of lens. So you might be safe. You definitely are right on the edge though.
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post #171 of 1128 Old 11-19-2014, 08:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ben38 View Post
The 1080p projectors making it onto the market now are so good at resolving detail that bad transfers and compressed broadcasts are so easy to see now that we start thinking something is wrong with our equipment, when in fact the opposite is true.
Our equipment is now too good for the junk that's being fed into them.
This has been my experience as well with the 3500. Garbage-in, garbage-out.

My main source is a fairly high-end gaming PC running games at 1080p with max settings and anti-aliasing. I feel as though my 3500 looks great in fast mode. The Xbox 360 definitely looked much worse on fast mode than the PC (see below for more details)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric McEntee View Post
As for games, tried a little Far Cry 3 Blood Dragon on PS3, and then Portal 2 on PS3. Lag is definitely an issue in Fine. Turn it on Fast, and it was fast enough for me that my actions didn't feel disjointed. Video fidelity does take a hit, but nothing unplayable at all. Will try some PS4 tomorrow.
That's a bummer that even "next-gen" consoles don't look good on the 3000.

I mis-spoke in an earlier post regarding the difference between fast/fine mode on the 3500. Earlier, I worked under the assumption that when in Fast mode, the 3500 would disable detail enhancement (DE) and super-resolution (SR).... this is incorrect. When in Fast mode, it continues to run DE/SR at the same levels they were set in Fine mode. I found that this attributes to some of the "grain" I noticed when playing xbox 360 games in Fast mode.

The solution... actually dialing back DE/SR to 10/1 respectively provided a much better balance of image quality without introducing the grain and artifacts. Don't get me wrong, it still doesn't look as good as Fine mode, but it is better.

For anyone else who console games on the 3500/3600, you may wanna try out lowering DE/SR and see if it helps with your image quality as well in Fast mode.
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post #172 of 1128 Old 11-20-2014, 07:54 AM
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The calculator shows you're using every last bit of your zoom to fill 120 inches at 19 feet. It might be less since the measurement is from screen to front of lens. So you might be safe. You definitely are right on the edge though.
So so what distance would you recommend? Im planning on running cables this weekend and purchasing the projector. Next on the list is the ceiling mount and how long of a drop to use.

Panny TH-50PE700U
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post #173 of 1128 Old 11-20-2014, 08:26 AM
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So so what distance would you recommend? Im planning on running cables this weekend and purchasing the projector. Next on the list is the ceiling mount and how long of a drop to use.
As zoom lenses go, the 3500's lens is relatively short, so it doesn't suffer a lot of light loss at it's extremes.(That's a good thing) However, any zoom lens performs it's best at the center of it's zoom range. In the case of the 3500, for a 120 inch 16:9 screen, the center of it's zoom range is about 15 feet. If 15 feet is too close for you, I would say to just stay safely below 19 feet. (say 17.5-18)

As for your ceiling mount: Wherever you decide to put your screen, you should try to get the projector to at least the top edge of the screen. That will determine how much drop you need.
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post #174 of 1128 Old 11-20-2014, 08:42 PM
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Do any of you guys have experience with wireless HDMI transmitters? IMO it doesn't make much sense to pay up for 3600 when there are standalone options for less than half the cost of the upgrade.

Any suggestions? I'm thinking that the 3000 paired with something like the ARIES Prime might be the way to go.
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post #175 of 1128 Old 11-21-2014, 10:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vasichko View Post
Well glad I decided to ask because the projector central calculator said 19' was okay for 120". What throw distance would you recommend for a 120" screen?
I just got my 3000 in, i had to go all the way to the edge of zoom. The calculator was exactly right for me, to the inch. Make sure you measure front of lens to screen.
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post #176 of 1128 Old 11-22-2014, 07:46 AM
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Hey all,

I just purchased the Epson 3000 and have to say its awesome! so far so good in the 2D world at 130 inch screen size. Its very bright and I used Behr "Silver Screen" paint which worked out well. As I said in the 2D world . Has anyone played with the 3D yet? Here is what I found so far.

DDD (Tridef) software - This does not work worth a damn. I have to manually put it in 3D and it doubles the size of your screen so you can't see half of whats on the screen. Also since its in manual you can do normal 2D stuff unless you manually turn it off. From what I read this software does not communicate with the projector so that is the issue.

3D Vision/3DTV - Since Tridef did not work I ended up purchasing 3DTV for 3D-Vision from Nvidia (39 bucks). This works but It has only two resolutions to choose from 720p@60Hz and 1080p at 24hz. I can tell you right now that the 1080p will cause you eye strain at 24hz.

So my questions:

1. I thought the projector was supposed to be 480hkz/240khz for 3D? why am I limited to only those two resolutions? I already read that it has nothing to do with the cable or speed of HDMI as it can easily carry 1080P3D@60.
2. What are the true 3D specs of the projector?
3. Is anyone using hardware based 3D like PS3 or a DVD player and if so how are the 3D movies? any eye strain?

Any help would be greatly appreciated!
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post #177 of 1128 Old 11-22-2014, 08:38 PM
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3. Is anyone using hardware based 3D like PS3 or a DVD player and if so how are the 3D movies? any eye strain?

Any help would be greatly appreciated!
I have about 130 hours on my HC3500.

3d gets watched a TON in my house by kids and myself.

A majority of my 3d content is in the form of 3d blurays that I'm playing back from a HTPC. When in a 3d movie, I pull up the projector video signal info and it is reporting 1080p@60.5 hz. When I pull up the Yamaha receiver video stream, it also reports that it is sending 1080p@60hz. XBMC reports the video frame-rate @ 24.6 fps. While playing video from the HTPC, the 3d content is in side-by-side format, which the projector then meshes into a single 3d image. This results in a loss of quality from the true bluray 3d copy. Since most of these videos are kids shows, I'm not too concerned about the slight degradation. That being said, it still looks very good.

For true demo-worthy movies, I play them off my 3d Sony bluray player. They look even better when being played from the original source. Still running at 1080p@60hz 24ish fps

As for use with 3d glasses, I am using the epson glasses as well as 8 pairs of samsung 3d glasses. I haven't had any sync issues or ghosting issues. I find that 3d content looks very good due to the bright image the 3000 series puts out. Super-resolution doesn't work in 3d mode, but the picture still looks good through shutter glasses.

I guess I'm not sure if this answers your question at all... I don't do any 3d gaming, just movie watching from bluray player and HTPC. I'm very please with the performance, especially considering the projector works great with $15 samsung glasses.
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post #178 of 1128 Old 11-23-2014, 02:38 PM
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I am having trouble getting the image to fill my 106" screen.
Regardless of what screen size I set it at, the image does not get any larger.
It is zoomed out all the way on the lens adjuster.

What am I missing?


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post #179 of 1128 Old 11-23-2014, 03:01 PM
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I am having trouble getting the image to fill my 106" screen.
Regardless of what screen size I set it at, the image does not get any larger.
It is zoomed out all the way on the lens adjuster.

What am I missing?


Move the projector closer to screen.

Improvise, adapt to the environment, Darwin, **** happens, I Ching.
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post #180 of 1128 Old 11-23-2014, 03:15 PM
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Move the projector closer to screen.
Dang. It's only at 10' away. I was thinking I wouldn't be far enough away.
The projector is mounted on the angle part of the ceiling. I would have to mount it a bit higher to get it close to the screen.
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