Looking for TW100 Screen Door Pics - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 20 Old 10-04-2002, 05:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Looking for someone that has screen pics examples of the TW100 so I can compare to PLV-70. Also any added comparision between the two models would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.


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post #2 of 20 Old 10-04-2002, 11:45 PM
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I will make a reference picture for the TW100 next time I run mine (probably tonight). From what distances do you want the pictures to be taken. I was thinking 4 meters, 2 meters 1 meter and 0.5 meter. Would that make sense to you non metric guys?

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post #3 of 20 Old 10-05-2002, 12:24 AM - Thread Starter
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Also please do one at 6 inches that would be 15cm for metric people. Other pics would be great to see also though at different distances.

Here is a pic of screen door from the 20HD and 13HD thanks to Jason another member of AVSFORUM. This was taken at 6 inches, have another one at 3 inches also that I can put if anyone wants it.

http://members.shaw.ca/corwins/20HDtop13HDbottom.jpg


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post #4 of 20 Old 10-05-2002, 12:29 AM
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http://www.minhembio.com/test.asp?tid=85

This is a Swedish test, from the same site that Emumannen uses to publish his "Theater".. If you look at the end of the test, there are some comparision shots between WXGA and XGA ("blowups"), which shows rather nicely the screendoor/resolution of the Epson.

BTW: Thanks Emu for making me check out your site, I've found out that prices in Sweden is actually about 20% lower than here in Norway...
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post #5 of 20 Old 10-05-2002, 03:22 PM
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My reference screen door image is up. I tried to make it easy to reproduce so I used a common DVD (Lord of the Ring) and the start of chapter 26 because it got a lot of white.

The photos where taken by a 2 mega pixel digital camera (Canon Digital IXUS V2) from the following distances; 6, 12, 50 and 100 inches. The images were not scaled in any way just compiled into one comparison picture.

The host for my images got an image size limit of 700 pixels width or height and 50k of size. I therefore cropped a 350x350 pixel image from each of the original images using the left most character from the film as the centre point. I then made a new image 700x700 and cut and pasted the cropped images into that one.

I tried to take the pictures at a square angel but 6 and 12 inch is really close so I had to tilt the camera a bit. I always tilted the camera upwards keeping the distance exactly 6 and 12 inch between the lens of the camera and the surface of the screen.

The different parts on the comparison image is not scaled so that is more or less the screen door you would see at the different distances...

Link to my TW100 pictures

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post #6 of 20 Old 10-05-2002, 04:21 PM
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Emunman - the difference in the cables you were using was interesting. So much sharper image with the ASC-3 cables (was it?). Where do you get those and what do they cost?
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post #7 of 20 Old 10-05-2002, 04:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Sorry to worry you maybe and I'm no expert but looks like the LCD panels are misaligned in screen door pics, what looks to be red is a little to the left and down of the blue and green. Maybe out of focus picture or projector out of focus. I'm I just seeing things or not. Also at 60" and 100" looks to be a little bit of red tinge to the picture and shows also that the panels are misaligned.

Anyone else have a an opinion of screen door pics?
I'm I just out to lunch or do I make a little bit of sense.


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post #8 of 20 Old 10-05-2002, 05:11 PM
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EmuMannen-
Those are some beautiful screenshots! Are you using a tripod for your camera? And the black levels look quite good, I don't know what people are complaining about.

Also, have you tried using a component video cable with progressive scan? If so, how does it compare to the S-video picture quality?

I don't know about the rest of you, but at 50" and 100", I can't see any screen door at all.

I agree with HTCrazy, the ASC-3 cable definitely gives a better picture.
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post #9 of 20 Old 10-05-2002, 06:00 PM
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EmuMannen,

Those pictures are great!.......I don't think I am going to wait for the HS10 to arrive......0% tolerance on dead pixels from EPSON TW100. I shoud be purchasing mine in a few weeks.

Thanks for all your pics and observations.

JoeB
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post #10 of 20 Old 10-05-2002, 08:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Corwin
Sorry to worry you maybe and I'm no expert but looks like the LCD panels are misaligned in screen door pics, what looks to be red is a little to the left and down of the blue and green. Maybe out of focus picture or projector out of focus. I'm I just seeing things or not. Also at 60" and 100" looks to be a little bit of red tinge to the picture and shows also that the panels are misaligned.

Anyone else have a an opinion of screen door pics?
I'm I just out to lunch or do I make a little bit of sense.
And with the sceeenshots he took from normal seating distance you can see that the red panel *might* be misaligned? Didn't think so. Why does it matter then? The shots look pretty damn good to me and I can only guess the image looks better in person.

So FWIW, I think his pics are fine as is the projected image he has.

Oh and BTW, the panels don't seem perfectly aligned in the picture you posted on the 13 & 20HD. I doubt any LCD out there has perfectly aligned panels that one can see from 6" away....but at normal viewing distances things are FINE.

ROB
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post #11 of 20 Old 10-05-2002, 10:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by HTCrazy
Emunman - the difference in the cables you were using was interesting. So much sharper image with the ASC-3 cables (was it?). Where do you get those and what do they cost?
The cable is a Supra AV3-cable (usually used to make component cables) custom made with composite and s-video connectors. The cable has been chosen as best buy by several international HiFi magazines.

You can get any cable custom made by hand, any way you want, by the Swedish manufacturer Jenving (your choice of cable and connector combination). You can't usually order directly from them but any reseller of Supra cables should be able to order what you want.

I payed ~ $90 for my 12 meters long custom made AV3-cable. Pre-made standard cables are a bit cheaper. Jenving is mainly known for their speaker cables and very high quality in comination with a resonable price...

Ps. You can order a AV6 cable with component, s-video and composite connectors. That will make up a high quality 3 cables in 1 solution!

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post #12 of 20 Old 10-05-2002, 10:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Corwin
Sorry to worry you maybe and I'm no expert but looks like the LCD panels are misaligned in screen door pics, what looks to be red is a little to the left and down of the blue and green. Maybe out of focus picture or projector out of focus. I'm I just seeing things or not. Also at 60" and 100" looks to be a little bit of red tinge to the picture and shows also that the panels are misaligned.

Anyone else have a an opinion of screen door pics?
I'm I just out to lunch or do I make a little bit of sense.
You are absolutly right but it is the green panel that is misaligned one pixel down at the right side of the image and 1/2 pixel to the left all over the image.

It doesent bother me from my seating distance and I havn't decided yet wat to do about it. I know that most projectors suffers from this kind of flaws and sometimes things get even worse if you turn your projector in for correction.

I have no dead pixels and I don't know what could happen to my lovely projector if I let Epson fiddle with it but I intend to find that out. I probably have to bring it in for a firmware update soon and I take that up with them there and then.

Anyone know how hard it is to align the panels? Can it be done on the unit I got or do they have to switch the panels for new ones? Can it be done by yourself?

Ps. Don't bother about the "little bit of red tinge", could be the camera because it is not a problem with the real image...

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post #13 of 20 Old 10-05-2002, 10:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by EricT43
EmuMannen-
Those are some beautiful screenshots! Are you using a tripod for your camera? And the black levels look quite good, I don't know what people are complaining about.

Also, have you tried using a component video cable with progressive scan? If so, how does it compare to the S-video picture quality?

I don't know about the rest of you, but at 50" and 100", I can't see any screen door at all.

I agree with HTCrazy, the ASC-3 cable definitely gives a better picture.
Yes I was using a tripod but I hate the bad performace of digital cameras in a dark environment like a HT. Really hard to get good images even with a tripod.

Black levels are good especially on a gray screen but it is something that you just cant get enough of isn't it?

I havn't tried component yet. I am so pleased with the s-video image right now so I am saving that for later when I feel a need for an upgrade (it is always nice with some potential)!

I can't normally see any screendoor at 100" in real life. Our seating distance is 3 to 4 meters and no one has ever complained about screen door.

Ps. The screen door images was actually shot with some ambient light in the room!

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post #14 of 20 Old 10-05-2002, 11:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Think at the prices that are paid we should not have to put with misaligned panels or dead pixels.


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post #15 of 20 Old 10-05-2002, 11:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Corwin
Think at the prices that are paid we should not have to put with misaligned panels or dead pixels.
Sure but easier said than done. I don't know how hard it is to make perfectly aligned panels or how common it is with misaligned panels in general.

I don't like the concept of misalignment or dead pixels in general, but I also don't know if it should upset me if I can't spot it from my regular seating distance? I guess that I am just a pragmatic realist too busy enjoying movies at home... :p

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post #16 of 20 Old 10-06-2002, 12:17 AM - Thread Starter
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The screen shots of LOTR are sweet I must say thats what makes me look at buying the TW100. Also have a dealer in Canada that for an extra $300.00 add an extra year warranty on. Along with there waranty is a performance warranty, so for 3 years they say any dead pixels they will get the unit fixed or replaced for me.


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post #17 of 20 Old 10-06-2002, 01:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Corwin
Here is a pic of screen door from the 20HD and 13HD thanks to Jason another member of AVSFORUM. This was taken at 6 inches, have another one at 3 inches also that I can put if anyone wants it.
How the heck is someone shooting a picture of a front projected picture from 3 inches (7.5 cm) if not shooting it from behind?

I had a really hard time shooting mine from 6 inches (15 cm). I had to tilt the tripod some 30 degrees because two of the legs was already touching the wall! I also had to use some frog perpective to bypass the shaddow of my tiny digicam...

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post #18 of 20 Old 10-08-2002, 01:17 AM
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Quote:
I can't normally see any screendoor at 100" in real life. Our seating distance is 3 to 4 meters and no one has ever complained about screen door.
EmuMannen, what is the throw distance you're using? In my house, I'll only be having it at about 7.5 to 8 feet. Until, I get a bigger place. :D It makes sense that the smaller the throw distance the less screen door there would be, no?

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post #19 of 20 Old 10-08-2002, 01:25 AM - Thread Starter
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All depends on screen size.

Same screen door if you have it at max zoom or not. So for screen of 100" you can have the Tw100 projector anywhere from 10.0 ft. - 14.2 ft.

Screen door will not change where ever you are in that range as the size of pixels remain same, as the screen is still 100".

Hope that makes sense.


Also thanks again EmuMannen for the screen door captures.


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post #20 of 20 Old 10-08-2002, 09:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Vikes4ever
EmuMannen, what is the throw distance you're using? In my house, I'll only be having it at about 7.5 to 8 feet. Until, I get a bigger place. :D It makes sense that the smaller the throw distance the less screen door there would be, no?
The screen is a 2 meters wide 16:9 screen. The projector is ceiling mounted 3.35 meters from the screen. The optical zoom is set to 0 (in the middle of min and max zoom). Our normal viewing distance is between 3 and 4 meters.

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