LCD is not dead ! - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 15 Old 10-04-2002, 11:30 PM - Thread Starter
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While my Piano's DVI input was being repaired, my retailer lent me an SVGA Proxima S540 LCD projector. I was thinking "boy, this projector is going to look like crap..". I was pleasantly surprised that there were some areas where I thought the LCD PQ was better than DLP. PQ on the LCD improved significantly after I used an FLD Daylight filter, the greenish overal tone disappeared and blacks had slightly more detail.

I felt that some colors were more natural, specifically green and red. You could make out the shades of red on the soldiers uniforms in The Last of The Mohicans.

DLP colors jump out at you but I feel that they are a bit more cartoonish. There was also an absence of motion artifacts on the LCD projector and a overall ease of viewing as many have described on this forum.

Blacks were still crap compared to my Piano's but I must admit that colors are more natural looking on an LCD. Even when I compared my NEC VT540 VS the LT150, even Russ noted that red's and skin tone was more natural on the LCD.


A DLP has more depth of field and can render detail better in the dark. In conclusion, I believe LCD projectors are better in the lower priced units when compared to similarly priced DLPs but when you get to the AUD$10K level, the likes of Sony 12HT will find it very hard to justify its higher price tag. The Sony 10HS should be a winner.
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post #2 of 15 Old 10-05-2002, 05:57 AM
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Are you driving these units with a prog. scan DVD player or HTPC and what source material are you using? Motion artifacts are a function of the scalier, not light engine. Also, Why did you bother to play with filters on the LCD unit but not the DLP? And finally, what mods did the LT150 have or was it stock?

Jon
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post #3 of 15 Old 10-05-2002, 07:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Aviman,

I used the filter on both the DLP and LCD. They both benefited noticeably from the use of filters. The LCD is driven by a normal interlaced DVD player whilst the DLP was driven by a HTPC via the DVI connection. The DVI connection did reduce the motion artifacts significantly, however it is still there if you look hard enough. You won't see it on an LCD.

I believe motion artifacts are strongly related to the DLP wheel and light engine. The LT150 was Russ Brook's modified with the W painted with white paint, FL-D filter, and I believe the internal case was also painted black to reduce light reflecting back onto the panel. In a nutshell, it was well modified by expert hands.

I believe LCD does red and even skin tones slightly better than most DLPs. This is a pretty unbiased opinion because I currently own a Piano which I had changed over from a NEC VT540.

Any regrets ? No. Because I value improved depth of field, deeper blacks and less screen door more. Not that skin tones are horrible on DLP, I am just in the opinion that they are better on LCD....colors are less rich but more realistic because in real life you don't get colors jumping right at you.
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post #4 of 15 Old 10-05-2002, 08:27 AM
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I agree with your conclusion concerning color, but I have my doubts with respect to motion artifacts.

Jon
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post #5 of 15 Old 10-05-2002, 09:07 PM
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You're right - LCD is definetely not dead, especially with the excellent early reports on the Panny 200 and 300. It;s all good, competition from LCD will keep TI's DLP panel pricing in line :D :D

I see dead pixels.......
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post #6 of 15 Old 10-05-2002, 09:49 PM
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Wait until you try LCOS...:D

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Technical Director, Home Theater Products
Datacolor, Inc.
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post #7 of 15 Old 10-06-2002, 09:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by milori
Wait until you try LCOS...:D
True, but is LCOS going to trickle down into the "poor man's" (sub-$5000.00) range anytime soon, or do we keep drooling from the cheap seats? :D

I see dead pixels.......
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post #8 of 15 Old 10-06-2002, 03:07 PM
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Hi Krillin,

The Hitachi is $4995 new. There hasn't been a new D-ILA for under $5K yet, but there is a strong used market in that price area...

Mark Hunter
Technical Director, Home Theater Products
Datacolor, Inc.
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post #9 of 15 Old 10-07-2002, 10:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by milori
There hasn't been a new D-ILA for under $5K yet...
What about the JVC DLA-M15? It's on the ********** web page for $3,900. Isn't that a D-ILA projector, too? (By the way, anyone know the difference between the M15 and the G15?)
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post #10 of 15 Old 10-07-2002, 11:14 AM
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Lyndonlim is 100% correct on the artifacting with DLP. I've stood in front of severel DLPs and noticed some freaky stuff coming off the DLP engines not evident on LCD.
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post #11 of 15 Old 10-07-2002, 05:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by videoman
Lyndonlim is 100% correct on the artifacting with DLP. I've stood in front of severel DLPs and noticed some freaky stuff coming off the DLP engines not evident on LCD.
I found DLP to be quite a bit fussier with the quality of the video signal which you can send through. Outside of the Marantz VPS12, Sharp 9000 and the Sim2 HT300, HT200. All the other DLPs below these mentioned range cannot handle video signal properly. When I say cannot handle, I mean distracting to the point of being unwatchable. The most cost effective solution is either to get a HTPC or an external scaler.

After my second day with the Proxima LCD, I found it quite unwatchable. The extra brightness and muted color novelty wore out very quickly. On the second day of viewing, I was reminded of why I switched from LCD to DLP. Its that damn grey mist that hovers over the image, its the mist that stuffs up perceived depth of field and clarity in background images. I am confident that some of the higher end LCDs will alleviate some of these vices to a large extent, the PLV70 and the Sony HS10 (800:1) may be okay.
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post #12 of 15 Old 10-07-2002, 06:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by lyndonlim
On the second day of viewing, I was reminded of why I switched from LCD to DLP. Its that damn grey mist that hovers over the image, its the mist that stuffs up perceived depth of field and clarity in background images.
Glad to hear somebody else mention this. Seems like nobody ever really talks about it. A borrowed Proxima projector is what I'm actually using now. It's an XGA and the pixel grid is almost invisible at 1.5x seating distance but there's always a grey mist that just destroys the over all picture quality. Back when I was a little newer at this it actually took me awhile to realize that this was in fact a screen door issue since I wasn't being all that much distracted by what everybody on this board seems to talk about in regard to screen door. This is why I want to go DLP as well.

Brent

...... There is no spoon
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post #13 of 15 Old 10-07-2002, 07:06 PM
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Brent,

It will be interesting to see if the AE300 gets rid of that grey mist. I'm thinking that I'll probably order one, so you can check it out if you want. I'm going to wait until closer to the day that they are released to decide.

--Darin
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post #14 of 15 Old 10-07-2002, 07:37 PM
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wait a minute... you guys are pullin' my leg... Grey Mist?

Yer not watching this in a steamy bathroom are you?

So as a person completely new to this diversion I am to watch for "screen door", "rainbows", "streaking", "chroma bugs", "flashing" and now ... "grey mist"...???

no wonder some folks say that front projection gives them headaches:D
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post #15 of 15 Old 10-07-2002, 08:02 PM
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I know what they are talking about when they are describing 'grey mist'. Its easily fixed by calibrating the projector and using a grey screen (very light grey is best imho). It then completely disappears.
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