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post #1 of 77 Old 12-10-2014, 09:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Questions Regarding Benq W1070

Hello everyone, I have been researching projectors for several months, and am pretty sure that the W1070 fits my needs. How does 3D movies/ games compare on this projector vs similar (in price) models (such as Optoma DH1009, Infocus In118HDA)?

My ceiling height is 82 inches, and with room size (12W x 15L) I can get 120in image, however I am not allowed to ceiling mount, but I have a large A/V cabinet that can put the projector at ceiling height, but since ceiling mounts all mount upside down, would this mounting be possible since the projector will be on its feet at ceiling height? If not how high off the floor would I need to mount the projector for a 120in fixed screen?

If I need to floor mount the projector, will a normal fixed screen work, or would I need a special screen?

Thank you in advance!
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post #2 of 77 Old 12-11-2014, 01:36 AM
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The w1070, like most DLPs, will need to either be upsidedown and a few inches above the screen's top, or rightsideup and a few inches below the screen's bottom. Because of it's fairly short throw, you could probably have it sitting on a low table, slightly in front if your seating..almost anything 10-24inches tall would work for that.
The other option would be mounting it upsidedown to a little shelf (even using large washers and a $5 wire shelf organizer could work) and setting that up high on a shelf. Easier to take down if you need than a ceilingmount too.
Just make sure to leave the vents plenty of breathing room.

The w1070 will look more accurate and actually have brighter colors (despite what the specs, which are allowed to fib, claim) and it'll likely have a smoother, less grainy image depending in those others' use of "brilliantcolor" which can often be pretty bad.
Both the IN118hda and the DH1009 use weaker/dimmer lamps and slower+less accurate colorwheels because they are more tuned toward being inexpensive office projectors for simple PowerPoint and short video presentations where accurate, higher-quality video isn't terribly important.

A normal fixed-screen would still work fine for a floor-set projector.

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415

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post #3 of 77 Old 12-11-2014, 04:54 AM
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What gives with Optoma making all these similar models!?!? I am not going to get into the better picture quality debate because I simply don't agree that the 1070 is that much better if at all and has been discussed ad nauseam. To answer your question, I can't speak for the INfocus but the Optoma will have better 3-d since you can use the vesa port to use better (and cheaper) glasses. Pushing aside brightness, color, claimed film grain ect ect ect, the 3-d is just better. I personally get eye aches using the dlp 3d and I switched to using a blue-tooth emitter with glasses (via vesa port) and the difference was night and day.
I was underwhelmed with dlp 3d on both the optoma and BenQ. Although I seem to be dogmatic in my opinion, I have never heard of a single person that has seen both say that the dlp 3-d is better.

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post #4 of 77 Old 12-11-2014, 10:09 AM - Thread Starter
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Thank you Ftoast & agent8, I've been browsing the forums for quite a bit the last few days and have seen posts saying that floor mounted projectors need angular reflective screens (hence asking if I need a special screen or not). I've also read way too many debates between the w1070 and optoma projectors than I can count. Which is why I stated that I'm pretty sure I've made the decision, but I can be swayed in either direction at this point. It is too bad there aren't any stores (at least in my area) that would allow you to compare projectors side by side, hell even audio stores in my area have gone the way of the do-do bird.

Would anyone know of a store that would allow me to compare projectors side by side within 3-4 hours of Scranton PA? Due to the fact that I had a horrible experience buying a home theater receiver and speakers that sounded like garbage last year (STR-DN840 & Polk Audio TsI's), I'd like to at least take even a few minutes to compare models while they are running rather than jumping the gun and potentially ending up with something I hate.
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post #5 of 77 Old 12-11-2014, 10:28 AM
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It's very unlikely you'll ever see any of these cheaper projectors set up and running let alone setup without a ton of lights, let alone BOTH of them in the same store. The best way to decide (if at all possible) is to buy them from a place with a good return policy. If you feel like you're picky, start with the w1070, if you think you probably won't see much difference, buy the cheapest 1080p DLP available with a good return-policy and see how YOU like it in YOUR room. If it's good, you saved a little money..if it's bad, return it and grab the w1070.

The angular-reflective VS retro-reflective screen isn't really anything you need to worry about. Retro-reflective screens are fairly rare in the first place and either type is going to be pretty expensive. The easiest way to get a good picture will be to simply get the room dark except for maybe a directional lamp or two that faces away from the screen (curtains closed and main-lights off). The screen will likely be a plain white or light-grey with a gain around 0.8-1.2 and it won't matter where the projector is placed in relation as long as it's centered (left/right) and enough below (or above and upsidedown) to give you a square image. If you can paint or otherwise darken your walls (and ceiling) somewhat, that's great, it'll improve contrast even more..if not, don't sweat it too bad. These projectors are made to still look good in regular rooms.
The specialty screens (angular or retro) are just band-aids for helping bad rooms a little. Keeping light from hitting the screen and possibly darkening the walls will take you farther than a fancy screen will. BUT even a plain white screen and a plain room will look pretty good with lights off.

A plain screen will also give the least artifacts and cleanest image.

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415
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post #6 of 77 Old 12-11-2014, 10:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Ftoast View Post
It's very unlikely you'll ever see any of these cheaper projectors set up and running let alone setup without a ton of lights, let alone BOTH of them in the same store. The best way to decide (if at all possible) is to buy them from a place with a good return policy. If you feel like you're picky, start with the w1070, if you think you probably won't see much difference, buy the cheapest 1080p DLP available with a good return-policy and see how YOU like it in YOUR room. If it's good, you saved a little money..if it's bad, return it and grab the w1070.

The angular-reflective VS retro-reflective screen isn't really anything you need to worry about. Retro-reflective screens are fairly rare in the first place and either type is going to be pretty expensive. The easiest way to get a good picture will be to simply get the room dark except for maybe a directional lamp or two that faces away from the screen (curtains closed and main-lights off). The screen will likely be a plain white or light-grey with a gain around 0.8-1.2 and it won't matter where the projector is placed in relation as long as it's centered (left/right) and enough below (or above and upsidedown) to give you a square image. If you can paint or otherwise darken your walls (and ceiling) somewhat, that's great, it'll improve contrast even more..if not, don't sweat it too bad. These projectors are made to still look good in regular rooms.
The specialty screens (angular or retro) are just band-aids for helping bad rooms a little. Keeping light from hitting the screen and possibly darkening the walls will take you farther than a fancy screen will. BUT even a plain white screen and a plain room will look pretty good with lights off.

A plain screen will also give the least artifacts and cleanest image.
Thanks for this! My room has highly reflective wood paneling so I figured I'd have to put daark cloth over the walls in order to prevent any added reflections.
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post #7 of 77 Old 12-11-2014, 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by MarthaAnn View Post
Hello everyone, I have been researching projectors for several months, and am pretty sure that the W1070 fits my needs. How does 3D movies/ games compare on this projector vs similar (in price) models (such as Optoma DH1009, Infocus In118HDA)?

My ceiling height is 82 inches, and with room size (12W x 15L) I can get 120in image, however I am not allowed to ceiling mount, but I have a large A/V cabinet that can put the projector at ceiling height, but since ceiling mounts all mount upside down, would this mounting be possible since the projector will be on its feet at ceiling height? If not how high off the floor would I need to mount the projector for a 120in fixed screen?

If I need to floor mount the projector, will a normal fixed screen work, or would I need a special screen?

Thank you in advance!
I'm going through this same thing right now!

The 1070 gets great reviews, (as does it's newer version) - BUT at 50ms lag time it's not ideal for gaming. I've been doing a lot of research as well and am heavily leaning towards this Optoma: http://www.amazon.ca/Optoma-GT1080-G.../dp/B00M9D4CAK

The bulbs are cheaper, there's no rainbow effects - it's whisper quite and it's got low lag time.

Review: http://www.projectorcentral.com/Optoma-GT1080.htm
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post #8 of 77 Old 12-11-2014, 11:40 AM
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Questions Regarding Benq W1070

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Originally Posted by Sean Spamilton View Post
I'm going through this same thing right now!

The 1070 gets great reviews, (as does it's newer version) - BUT at 50ms lag time it's not ideal for gaming. I've been doing a lot of research as well and am heavily leaning towards this Optoma: http://www.amazon.ca/Optoma-GT1080-G.../dp/B00M9D4CAK

The bulbs are cheaper, there's no rainbow effects - it's whisper quite and it's got low lag time.

Review: http://www.projectorcentral.com/Optoma-GT1080.htm

The original W1070 produces 20-30ms of lag. The successor (HT1075/W1070+) is 50ms or so. No idea why there was a regression here; but there was.

The GT1080 is a short-throw model and has been compared to BenQ's short-throw equivalent here:
Optoma GT1080 vs BenQ W1080ST and W1085ST

There's a detailed review in that thread. Its slower color wheel means you're actually more likely to see rainbows from the GT1080 than with the W1070.

If you want even less lag, Optoma's HD131x/HD141x models are normal-throw and are both under 20ms.
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post #9 of 77 Old 12-11-2014, 11:52 AM
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The original W1070 produces 20-30ms of lag. The successor (HT1075/W1070+) is 50ms or so. No idea why there was a regression here; but there was.

The GT1080 is a short-throw model and has been compared to BenQ's short-throw equivalent here:
Optoma GT1080 vs BenQ W1080ST and W1085ST

There's a detailed review in that thread. Its slower color wheel means you're actually more likely to see rainbows from the GT1080 than with the W1070.

If you want even less lag, Optoma's HD131x/HD141x models are normal-throw and are both under 20ms.
Ugh I'm so confused now My main wants are lowish lag (<40ms), quiet, vertical lens adjustment, and no rainbows and ~ $1000 - $1200. I've heard the picture quality of the 1070 is great but there's light leakage and it can be noisy. Perhaps the Epson 2030? It's bulbs are inexpensive, it's got decent lag, there's NO raibows as it's LCD (I believe).. the only problem will be the ease of installation as I'll be ceiling mounting it with a fixed screen.

Last edited by Sean Spamilton; 12-11-2014 at 11:52 AM. Reason: quiet not quite
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post #10 of 77 Old 12-11-2014, 12:00 PM
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Ugh I'm so confused now My main wants are lowish lag (<40ms), quiet, vertical lens adjustment, and no rainbows and ~ $1000 - $1200. I've heard the picture quality of the 1070 is great but there's light leakage and it can be noisy. Perhaps the Epson 2030? It's bulbs are inexpensive, it's got decent lag, there's NO raibows as it's LCD (I believe).. the only problem will be the ease of installation as I'll be ceiling mounting it with a fixed screen.

The 2030 isn't a first-choice for gaming since to get reasonable lag times, you have to swap to 'Fast' picture mode which drops quality.
The 8345/8350 might be better options as far as LCD since it's low-lag in all picture modes. It doesn't have the light output to compete with other projectors in its price-range but has plenty of lens shift and produces a good image.

I game quite a bit on the W1070 (I'm also RBE sensitive). Not that easy to pick up rainbows on it (since games all output at 60hz/50hz which has the color-wheel running at its fastest). No noticable lag. Noise in ECO mode is pretty low and it's still pretty bright in that mode. Light leakage is miles away from the screen (20 ft or so to the left in my setup) so I wouldn't let that break the deal.

Are you definitely very RBE sensitive? If so, to fulfill all your requirements, wait until the Sony HW40ES goes back on sale (tends to dip below $2k) since it offers a great image, no rainbows and low lag - and it's quiet.
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post #11 of 77 Old 12-11-2014, 12:09 PM
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Originally Posted by kreeturez View Post
The 2030 isn't a first-choice for gaming since to get reasonable lag times, you have to swap to 'Fast' picture mode which drops quality.
The 8345/8350 might be better options as far as LCD since it's low-lag in all picture modes. It doesn't have the light output to compete with other projectors in its price-range but has plenty of lens shift and produces a good image.

I game quite a bit on the W1070 (I'm also RBE sensitive). Not that easy to pick up rainbows on it (since games all output at 60hz/50hz which has the color-wheel running at its fastest). No noticable lag. Noise in ECO mode is pretty low and it's still pretty bright in that mode. Light leakage is miles away from the screen (20 ft or so to the left in my setup) so I wouldn't let that break the deal.

Are you definitely very RBE sensitive? If so, to fulfill all your requirements, wait until the Sony HW40ES goes back on sale (tends to dip below $2k) since it offers a great image, no rainbows and low lag - and it's quiet.
Hmm... The Sony's out of my price range, but the 8350 falls right into it (1200 CDN & probably cheaper on boxing day).. My room is fairly dim - it's a den with a corner window but it's covered by dark blinds. During the day there's some ambient light (but would still be considered dim I'd think) so I don't think I should be TOO worried about light output. It says it's got 2000 lumens which is how much the 1070 has anyways I believe. The bulb costs don't look to severe:
http://www.ebay.com/bhp/epson-8350-bulb

Do you think those bulbs would be sufficient? a 300 dollar bulb replacement is too much in the case of some of the projectors (and the 1070 is about 250) - but the ablove doesn't look too bad...
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post #12 of 77 Old 12-11-2014, 12:11 PM
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The 2030 isn't a first-choice for gaming since to get reasonable lag times, you have to swap to 'Fast' picture mode which drops quality.
The 8345/8350 might be better options as far as LCD since it's low-lag in all picture modes. It doesn't have the light output to compete with other projectors in its price-range but has plenty of lens shift and produces a good image.

I game quite a bit on the W1070 (I'm also RBE sensitive). Not that easy to pick up rainbows on it (since games all output at 60hz/50hz which has the color-wheel running at its fastest). No noticable lag. Noise in ECO mode is pretty low and it's still pretty bright in that mode. Light leakage is miles away from the screen (20 ft or so to the left in my setup) so I wouldn't let that break the deal.

Are you definitely very RBE sensitive? If so, to fulfill all your requirements, wait until the Sony HW40ES goes back on sale (tends to dip below $2k) since it offers a great image, no rainbows and low lag - and it's quiet.
Hmm... The Sony's out of my price range, but the 8350 falls right into it (1200 CDN & probably cheaper on boxing day).. My room is fairly dim - it's a den with a corner window but it's covered by dark blinds. During the day there's some ambient light (but would still be considered dim I'd think) so I don't think I should be TOO worried about light output. It says it's got 2000 lumens which is how much the 1070 has anyways I believe. The bulb costs don't look to severe:
http://www.ebay.com/bhp/epson-8350-bulb

Do you think those bulbs would be sufficient? a 300 dollar bulb replacement is too much in the case of some of the projectors (the 1070 coming in at 250) - but the above prices don't look too bad...
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post #13 of 77 Old 12-11-2014, 12:15 PM - Thread Starter
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I feel that for console gaming the 1070 is capable enough, but we will see I am going to try out a couple different projectors from amazon. With the 1070 does it require an emitter for the 3d glasses?


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post #14 of 77 Old 12-11-2014, 12:42 PM
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The bulb costs don't look to severe:
http://www.ebay.com/bhp/epson-8350-bulb

Do you think those bulbs would be sufficient? a 300 dollar bulb replacement is too much in the case of some of the projectors (the 1070 coming in at 250) - but the above prices don't look too bad...

Those aren't factory-original Epson lamps; they're knock-off OEM/generics. You could try your luck (research here first); but it's a gamble. The same applies to the $80 W1070 lamps (thread here: Bare Bulb replacemnet for Benq W1070 )

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I feel that for console gaming the 1070 is capable enough, but we will see I am going to try out a couple different projectors from amazon. With the 1070 does it require an emitter for the 3d glasses?

Nope no emitter: you just need regular 144Hz DLP-Link glasses. Recommended for both price and performance are the Estars.
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post #15 of 77 Old 12-11-2014, 01:34 PM
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Hmm.. Well the drop in quality on fast mode aside, 99 OEM on the 2030 sounds like the best deal going. For regular non fps gaming I don't think I'd notice the 100ms lag that much would I? (I could just switch to fast mode for COD or battlefield).. Its a trade off of course, as I can't have everything I want - but this is going to replace my TV screen as well so could easily see 2500 hours per year. I don't want to shell out 300 every year and a half ( though every two years isn't bad ) so perhaps I'll take the performance hit. Are there any that you know off that meet my criteria with bulbs in the 175 range?

PS - I really appreciate your expertise and knowledge on this one man!
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post #16 of 77 Old 12-11-2014, 01:57 PM
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Hmm.. Well the drop in quality on fast mode aside, 99 OEM on the 2030 sounds like the best deal going. For regular non fps gaming I don't think I'd notice the 100ms lag that much would I? (I could just switch to fast mode for COD or battlefield).. Its a trade off of course, as I can't have everything I want - but this is going to replace my TV screen as well so could easily see 2500 hours per year. I don't want to shell out 300 every year and a half ( though every two years isn't bad ) so perhaps I'll take the performance hit. Are there any that you know off that meet my criteria with bulbs in the 175 range?



PS - I really appreciate your expertise and knowledge on this one man!

For bulbs, ProVantage stocks originals for most projectors: the BenQ original is $200 ( http://www.provantage.com/benq-5j-j7...1~7BEN906E.htm ). Lamp life in SmartEco on the BenQ (which runs at full brightness) is rated at 6000 hours. People around here have exceeded that figure... so don't worry too much about an item you'll only replace every two years provided (it's not exorbitant )


The 2030 is a great option at this price-point for the RBE-sensitive among us. You do lose out on some aspects of picture quality compared similarly-priced DLP's (contrast, sharpness, native black levels); but it's a good looking machine. It's also color-bright.

100ms of lag is managable for almost anything other than FPS/platformers; and, as you say, flicking to 'Fast' is not the end of the world when you need lower lag. And, of couse, original bulbs are cheap: half the price of the competition.
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post #17 of 77 Old 12-11-2014, 02:24 PM
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Originally Posted by kreeturez View Post
For bulbs, ProVantage stocks originals for most projectors: the BenQ original is $200 ( <a href="http://www.provantage.com/benq-5j-j7l05-001~7BEN906E.htm" target="_blank">http://www.provantage.com/benq-5j-j7l05-001~7BEN906E.htm</a> ). Lamp life in SmartEco on the BenQ (which runs at full brightness) is rated at 6000 hours. People around here have exceeded that figure... so don't worry too much about an item you'll only replace every two years provided (it's not exorbitant <img src="/forum/images/smilies/wink.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Wink" smilieid="7" class="inlineimg" /> )<br />
<br />
<br />
The 2030 is a great option at this price-point for the RBE-sensitive among us. You do lose out on some aspects of picture quality compared similarly-priced DLP's (contrast, sharpness, native black levels); but it's a good looking machine. It's also color-bright.<br />
<br />
100ms of lag is managable for almost anything other than FPS/platformers; and, as you say, flicking to 'Fast' is not the end of the world when you need lower lag. And, of couse, original bulbs are cheap: half the price of the competition.
<br />
<br />
Great - you've provided me with some valuable info here. 300 every two years isn't too bad (I'm in Canada so closer to 3 than 2)... Tough choice! One last question (I promise) With a fixed screen and a ceiling mount would the 1070 be way easier to position / would the 2030 be really tricky (no vertical shift) - Or would it still be doable without wanting to stab my eyes out in frustration?

Last edited by Sean Spamilton; 12-11-2014 at 02:30 PM.
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post #18 of 77 Old 12-11-2014, 04:12 PM
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Great - you've provided me with some valuable info here. 300 every two years isn't too bad (I'm in Canada so closer to 3 than 2)... Tough choice! One last question (I promise) With a fixed screen and a ceiling mount would the 1070 be way easier to position / would the 2030 be really tricky (no vertical shift) - Or would it still be doable without wanting to stab my eyes out in frustration?
Vertical lens shift does help. But getting a projector perfectly square to the screen is always a pain, so you may find yourself stabbing your eyes out in either case.
Also, both projectors need to have their lenses in the exact horizontal-center of the screen. That requires some measuring no matter what.

In the case of the W1070, the top of the image begins (when ceiling mounting) a few inches below the center of the lens. Vertical shift then lets you push it down further a few more inches.
In the case of the 2030, the top of the image begins (when ceiling mounting) quite a bit above the top of the lens. Practically speaking, this means you'd need to mount it lower. If your ceilings were really low (making your screen-top close to said ceilings), this might even be an advantage since you wouldn't be limited by the distance between the projector and the ceiling. On the flip-side, it might put the projector a little more in-the-way due to its lower position. I don't think this is a deal-breaker in either case. Use the projection calculators at ProjectorCentral to make sure that the projector you decide to go with can produce the image size you're after from the distance you'd want to position it at.
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post #19 of 77 Old 12-11-2014, 09:46 PM
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Vertical lens shift does help. But getting a projector perfectly square to the screen is always a pain, so you may find yourself stabbing your eyes out in either case.
Also, both projectors need to have their lenses in the exact horizontal-center of the screen. That requires some measuring no matter what.

In the case of the W1070, the top of the image begins (when ceiling mounting) a few inches below the center of the lens. Vertical shift then lets you push it down further a few more inches.
In the case of the 2030, the top of the image begins (when ceiling mounting) quite a bit above the top of the lens. Practically speaking, this means you'd need to mount it lower. If your ceilings were really low (making your screen-top close to said ceilings), this might even be an advantage since you wouldn't be limited by the distance between the projector and the ceiling. On the flip-side, it might put the projector a little more in-the-way due to its lower position. I don't think this is a deal-breaker in either case. Use the projection calculators at ProjectorCentral to make sure that the projector you decide to go with can produce the image size you're after from the distance you'd want to position it at.
First off - I feel like I should buy you a beer for all the solid pro advice, if you PM me your email I'll send you an email money transfer
(enough to buy a pint ).

I used the calculator for the link you provided and it spat out some interesting info. First off, at my seating distance (around 9.5 feet) my screen should be no larger than 90".. That's good to know, as I was going to get a 100" screen - but that would be outside of my ideal seating distance. I don't have a lot of room to spare in that respect as I want to leave a few feet for my rear speakers from my MLP - so it looks like a 90" is my best bet. It suits me just fine, as a 90" will be less money than a 100".

I compared the W1070, the Epson 2030, and the Optoma HD131xe. I would prefer the projector to be behind my head (as opposed to directly over it), and the calculator gave me some interesting results. With the W1070, the furthest behind my MLP I could place the projector is 5" - with the 1070 the max would be 8" behind, but with the Optoma, I could place it 2 to 3' behind me, which would be great (completely out of the line of site, no light leakage to bother me). I looked up the Optoma's bulbs, and they look like they're less than 200 CAD each - a bonus. It's very quiet (26db, "silent") and as you say it's got extremely low lag time as well. I've also read that having projectors at the extremes of their throw distances isn't great, but with the Optoma I could put it smack dab in the middle of it's zoom distance, around 11.2 feet (2' behind my head). The only thing it has going against it is it's a DLP and as such susceptible to the Rainbow effect. That being said it's gotten great reviews. Here's my calculations for the three:





Do you think having the extra couple of feet behind my LP (as opposed to just slightly behind my head) is worth taking the chance with the rainbow effects? To be honest I have no idea if I'm susceptible or not - but I'd hate to slave for hours getting it setup and find out they drive me nuts. I guess that's a risk / reward proposition I'll have to evaluate. I'd say it looks like I found my projector no?
(Unless you've heard something bad about them?)

Cheers!
Sean.

EDIT: The newer version of the Optoma (the hd141e) has even better throw range flexibility - and is 50% off right now at Amazon.ca!

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post #20 of 77 Old 12-12-2014, 04:32 AM
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It's an absolute pleasure. If you're feeling generous, I'd recommend supporting this community: either by purchasing whatever projector you go with from the AVS Shop (if they ship to your location), or signing up for a premium subscription for a year to the forums (though that's a bit pricier than a pint )


It's tough to recommend anything below 100" in terms of screen size for front projection: to put it in perspective, I sit about 10'-11' from a 127" diagonal-screen. IMAX-style. The missus sits a bit further back (maybe 12' - that's closer to 'average' from a screen this size).

Dipping to 90" or lower is already making a regular TV more attractive as an option.

Ideally, get the projector first (without a screen and without a mount), and experiment on your wall (with the projector on a table) for a few days to determine what size screen you feel most comfortable with. (A wall of consistent color does a reasonable job for this). I'm confident you'll appreciate 100" or even a bit more from 9.5ft: but it's a matter of taste.


Assuming 100" diagonal, the options look like this:

Epson 2030: 8' 11" to 10' 8"
Optoma HD131x: 10' 10" to 13'
Optoma HD141x: 10' 9" to 11' 9"
BenQ W1070: 8' 4" to 10' 10"


By far the most limited in placement in terms of throw is the 141x. Strange since the 131x was relatively flexible. If quietness is a primary concern, ensure you have a return policy in place since the 141 has been found to be noisy for some users. It may be an issue with just a few batches since it appears not to affect all units.

As far as rainbows, both those Optomas only have 2-3x color wheels (around half the speed of the W1070). Those slower wheels also have a negative effect on picture quality (once again, the W1070 wins out here) since to obtain reasonable color accuracy you have to dip brightness significantly (to only use the RGB segments of the wheel).

That said the HD141x (and HD131xe - if stock is readily available) are very competitively priced, so if you're on a tight budget, they're both good options. The 141x looks only marginally better than its predecessor and has a more-limited lens and none of its predecessor's analog inputs; though it does gain MHL. Neither has ever been anywhere near official >$1k list price, so the '50% off' you're seeing is marketing hype: the current $650 (CAD) price is quite typical for the unit.

If you're really worried about rainbows, then, once again, make sure you're covered by a return policy. If you pick up an Optoma and see rainbows, then swap out with a BenQ. If you still see rainbows, then you'll need to swap out to the 2030. (Again, the majority of viewers are not affected by rainbows at all).


Finally, whether the projector is above or behind you doesn't have a huge impact on noise: the white-noise produced by any of these units won't sound that much different if placed a bit in front, above, or behind your seating.

They've all got fan vents on their fronts, so it's possible you might get a bit of a noise advantage if they're placed a bit in front of you: once again, you can experiment with this before mounting, using a table.
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It's an absolute pleasure. If you're feeling generous, I'd recommend supporting this community: either by purchasing whatever projector you go with from the AVS Shop (if they ship to your location), or signing up for a premium subscription for a year to the forums (though that's a bit pricier than a pint )
Well I signed up for premium - I spend so much time on here and have gotten enough great advice that I feel I should indeed support the community. Luckily I've learned enough that I'm able to contribute advice to audio questions at this point, but am still a complete rookie when it comes to projectors.

As far as AVS shop is concerned, it's almost useless to try to get anything from the states when you take into consideration shipping / duties etc. It's funny, we're supposed to have free trade (the US and Canada) but I'm able to get most things shipped from the UK and Ireland for less money than across the border. Ridiculous. [/quote]

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It's tough to recommend anything below 100" in terms of screen size for front projection: to put it in perspective, I sit about 10'-11' from a 127" diagonal-screen. IMAX-style. The missus sits a bit further back (maybe 12' - that's closer to 'average' from a screen this size).

Dipping to 90" or lower is already making a regular TV more attractive as an option.

Ideally, get the projector first (without a screen and without a mount), and experiment on your wall (with the projector on a table) for a few days to determine what size screen you feel most comfortable with. (A wall of consistent color does a reasonable job for this). I'm confident you'll appreciate 100" or even a bit more from 9.5ft: but it's a matter of taste.
Hmm.. That's interesting as I've read that too large a screen from to short a distance can make your eyes work and give people headaches. Using the calculator on Projector Central, the minimum distance from a 100" screen would be 10.2' feet from the screen (recommended between 10.2' and 16' to be precise). Sitting a full foot closer then the recommended minimum distance might be problematic no? - that's not to say I wouldn't LIKE a bigger screen - I just don't want to overdo it and pay the price for my gluttony. Having said that you certainly know your stuff so if you don't think 100" from 9.5' away will create a problem I'm inclined to believe you. As you say the best idea will be to watch some shows on my wall before I get the screen. The only problem with that is that I'm about to re-paint my living room (as in starting this weekend) a dark matte grey (charcoal / granite ) to better absorb light - so it won't work particularly well. I guess we'll find out!

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Assuming 100" diagonal, the options look like this:

Epson 2030: 8' 11" to 10' 8"
Optoma HD131x: 10' 10" to 13'
Optoma HD141x: 10' 9" to 11' 9"
BenQ W1070: 8' 4" to 10' 10"

By far the most limited in placement in terms of throw is the 141x. Strange since the 131x was relatively flexible. If quietness is a primary concern, ensure you have a return policy in place since the 141 has been found to be noisy for some users. It may be an issue with just a few batches since it appears not to affect all units.
I'm thinking it's just a batch sent out - as they certainly market it as being whisper quiet at 26 db (and the other poster in that thread had no problem). In contrast I've read numerous complaints about the noise with the 1070 - with people hoping that the new HT1075 will have fixed that. I realize I can't have everything I want at this price point - but will have to do the best with what there is available. If everything was perfect for all of them there'd be no reason for anyone to spend extra for the better models I guess.
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As far as rainbows, both those Optomas only have 2-3x color wheels (around half the speed of the W1070). Those slower wheels also have a negative effect on picture quality (once again, the W1070 wins out here) since to obtain reasonable color accuracy you have to dip brightness significantly (to only use the RGB segments of the wheel).
This is what concerns me the most about the Optomas. If the colour (Canadian spelling ) wheel is significantly slower does that automatically lend itself to more rainbow effects? - if that's the case I should probably keep looking - or revert back to the 2030 and never have to worry about it. Such a shame that the new Benq HT1075 has somehow managed to create MORE lag.

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That said the HD141x (and HD131xe - if stock is readily available) are very competitively priced, so if you're on a tight budget, they're both good options. The 141x looks only marginally better than its predecessor and has a more-limited lens and none of its predecessor's analog inputs; though it does gain MHL. Neither has ever been anywhere near official >$1k list price, so the '50% off' you're seeing is marketing hype: the current $650 (CAD) price is quite typical for the unit.
Of course you're right about the pricing. I noticed on Projector Central the street price was down around 650 CAD after I gleefully posted that message late last night. It's funny, for all the pragmatism I tout when it comes to marketing hype in audio (I'm quite aware of all the snake-oil and questionable marketing that is used by an unfortunate number of otherwise reputable companies) - I still fell for the old Mark up and slash trick. Thanks for bringing me back down to earth.


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If you're really worried about rainbows, then, once again, make sure you're covered by a return policy. If you pick up an Optoma and see rainbows, then swap out with a BenQ. If you still see rainbows, then you'll need to swap out to the 2030. (Again, the majority of viewers are not affected by rainbows at all).
It's too bad I can't demo one of these units properly as I've really no way of knowing whether I'm susceptible or not. It certainly would make my choice MUCH easier. I guess the ability to return the projector will make things easier. That's a big bonus about Amazon.ca or Newegg.ca as opposed to shipping back across the border to the states, it's relatively painless.

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Finally, whether the projector is above or behind you doesn't have a huge impact on noise: the white-noise produced by any of these units won't sound that much different if placed a bit in front, above, or behind your seating.

They've all got fan vents on their fronts, so it's possible you might get a bit of a noise advantage if they're placed a bit in front of you: once again, you can experiment with this before mounting, using a table.
Good to know. I would assume though that for light leakage purposes it would be better to have behind me - and that's kind of how I envision the projector anyways. With 8' ceilings I'd rather not have the projector hanging a in front of me to be honest - and it would make it easier and cleaner for cabling up the back wall to the projector if it was closer. It's not a deal breaker in any event.

Rainbows aside, would you say that the pq of the 2030 > 141? I'm strongly leaning towards it again at this point considering the slow colour wheel of the 141, & the cheaper bulbs. I can live with playing the odd FPS with reduced pq on it's fast setting.
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Thanks for all the help, but now I have another question. Is there a projector that has the image quality of the benq w1070, but has the short throw and low lag of the optoma GT1080? If not, does any one know of any youtube videos that show the capabilities of both projectors (obviously not in the same video) Only reason I'm asking about the youtube vids is because my internet is supplied by a crappy Tmobile hotspot that at best gets edge in my area (I live next to a cows rear end, so theres not even a landline phone carrier to even get dialup or dsl from)
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post #23 of 77 Old 12-12-2014, 10:27 PM
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The 2030 isn't a first-choice for gaming since to get reasonable lag times, you have to swap to 'Fast' picture mode which drops quality.
Repeating this over and over doesn't make it true. All I can say, is that I see no significant difference between "fast" and "fine" when gaming from my PS3 (@720p output) on a 100" screen from ~10ft.

As for the much copied and pasted "evidence" photos in other threads, I now realize they come from what looks like the Win7 desktop task bar, which probably means a PC resolution, which probably means they were never in the "native" 1080p resolution of the 2030, (or even 720p,) so ... I guess, perhaps, this means the 2030 is not the best PJ to pair with a PC (or MAC) ... duh.

That being said, I did scrounge up a VGA cable with the intent of reproducing the aforementioned photos ... or at least the conditions ... because at this point, it's kind of driving me nuts that I don't see this alledged "drop in quality."
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Repeating this over and over doesn't make it true. All I can say, is that I see no significant difference between "fast" and "fine" when gaming from my PS3 @720p output) on a 100" screen from ~10ft.

As for the much copied and pasted "evidence" photos in other threads, I now realize they come from what looks like the Win7 desktop task bar, which probably means a PC resolution, which probably means they were never in the "native" 1080p resolution of the 2030, (or even 720p,) so ... I guess, perhaps, this means the 2030 is not the best PJ to pair with a PC (or MAC) ... duh.

That being said, I did scrounge up a VGA cable with the intent of reproducing the aforementioned photos ... or at least the conditions ... because at this point, it's kind of driving me nuts that I don't see this alledged "drop in quality."
In my case I'm going to be pairing it with a PC - though I always play PC in 1080p, and have done so for years. I certainly wouldn't want to play @ 720p. I'm not sure I understand what your saying - windows will adjust it's native resolution depending on your display - so if you're playing on a display with 1080p it will output in 1080p.
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In my case I'm going to be pairing it with a PC - though I always play PC in 1080p, and have done so for years. I certainly wouldn't want to play @ 720p. I'm not sure I understand what your saying - windows will adjust it's native resolution depending on your display - so if you're playing on a display with 1080p it will output in 1080p.
Yes ... but the projector won't necessarily accept 1080p or 720p (over a VGA connection.) In fact, according to the manual, the 2030 won't. HDMI may be a different thing ... none of my PC's have an HDMI output. And, BTW all of my PS3 games are rendered at 720p so there's at least some scaling going on.

But to be more clear, what I'm saying is I don't trust the "evidence" presented in several threads, particularly when I haven't (yet) been able to duplicate it. OTOH, several folks claim there's a "vast quality" difference between "fast" and "fine" modes ... yet I haven't been able to see this "vast difference." Then again, I make a point to calibrate all my displays to the fullest extent possible (without resorting to external processors) ... so ... perhaps that's a factor. For instance, the 2030 has separate memories for Component format and RGB format video ... so if one were to calibrate for BD (component format) without calibrating for RGB ...

In one of the 5030 threads, I came across a post that stated the difference between "fast" and "fine" was essentially downgrading *color* information from 32 bit to 24bit color. I don't recall the exact wording ... and I can't vouch for the truth of this ... but I can say for the limited amount of gaming I do, I can certainly live with whatever "fast" is doing. It's not like I'm watching "The Last Emperor" or the like.

In short, to me, so far, this "fast" vs. "fine" issue is vastly overstated ... YMMV
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Yes ... but the projector won't necessarily accept 1080p or 720p (over a VGA connection.) In fact, according to the manual, the 2030 won't. HDMI may be a different thing ... none of my PC's have an HDMI output. And, BTW all of my PS3 games are rendered at 720p so there's at least some scaling going on.

But to be more clear, what I'm saying is I don't trust the "evidence" presented in several threads, particularly when I haven't (yet) been able to duplicate it. OTOH, several folks claim there's a "vast quality" difference between "fast" and "fine" modes ... yet I haven't been able to see this "vast difference." Then again, I make a point to calibrate all my displays to the fullest extent possible (without resorting to external processors) ... so ... perhaps that's a factor. For instance, the 2030 has separate memories for Component format and RGB format video ... so if one were to calibrate for BD (component format) without calibrating for RGB ...

In one of the 5030 threads, I came across a post that stated the difference between "fast" and "fine" was essentially downgrading *color* information from 32 bit to 24bit color. I don't recall the exact wording ... and I can't vouch for the truth of this ... but I can say for the limited amount of gaming I do, I can certainly live with whatever "fast" is doing. It's not like I'm watching "The Last Emperor" or the like.

In short, to me, so far, this "fast" vs. "fine" issue is vastly overstated ... YMMV
I see - I couldn't understand what your were talking about with "PC resolution" . You wouldn't have a link to the article would you? I'd be surprised if anyone these days tried to run VGA to anything from PC. It's been YEARS since I used vga - it would be bizarre that someone would have a fairly new projector like the 2030, a win 7 PC and for some unexplained reason use VGA to connect the two. Here's a quote from one of the members:

"For the sake of this discussion, I tried FINE vs FAST mode again last night, first time I've tried FAST mode in a couple months actually. Demoed using XBOX ONE and FORZA 5 (now that I think about it, I should have taken pics). I have to admit, the image looked pretty bad in FAST mode vs FINE mode. Noticable degradation in picture quality and A LOT more jagged lines and aliasing that is not present in FINE mode. Even color quality seemed to suffer. I wouldn't doubt it was kicked down to 720P resolution either. Good thing I hardly ever use FAST mode since I'm usually watching movies or playing games offline where lag isn't a huge issue so I keep it in FINE mode. I am not satisfied with the quality of the FAST mode image."

He doesn't state that he uses VGA cables - just that it wouldn't surprise him if the resolution got kicked down. His assessment isn't a glowing one - (though I can't figure out how there would be more jagged lines and aliasing UNLESS it actually did kick him down to 720p in which case I could understand the conversion problems). OTOH it would seem strange that a company such as Epson would market fast mode for gamers that created such obvious problems beyond just a loss of resolution.

As far as downgrading the resolution goes - I would have thought you're probably right, not a huge difference for FPS gaming as the action is so quick anyways - though the difference in between 100ms and 30ms (or whatever fast mode uses) certainly is. For all other games (IE Skyrim or Dragon Age) where you're actually enjoying the scenery the fast mode wouldn't be needed anyways - you don't need an ultra-quick response time.

Perhaps the new Epson 3000 would be better suited? It's got great lens shift options as well.
EDIT: High bulb prices and poor lag make the 3000 a poor choice for me. I think I'll have to try both the 2030 and the 1070 and see which one works better for me

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post #27 of 77 Old 12-13-2014, 06:36 AM
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Thanks for all the help, but now I have another question. Is there a projector that has the image quality of the benq w1070, but has the short throw and low lag of the optoma GT1080? If not, does any one know of any youtube videos that show the capabilities of both projectors (obviously not in the same video) Only reason I'm asking about the youtube vids is because my internet is supplied by a crappy Tmobile hotspot that at best gets edge in my area (I live next to a cows rear end, so theres not even a landline phone carrier to even get dialup or dsl from)
The Benq w1080 has equally low-lag as the gamer DLPs as well as the same great color and contrast of the w1070..in a short-throw projector.

This is the w1080..NOT the w1085 (which has increased lag for some reason).

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415
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I think I'll have to try both the 2030 and the 1070 and see which one works better for me
That's usually the best way when possible.
To me, FAST mode makes it look like video has compression artifacts that aren't normally there for other PJs nor the Epson in FINE mode. It bothered me but it may not be a huge problem for you, and the best way to know is to see it for yourself in your own room with video you're familiar with.
Seeing the two side-by-side is an even better opportunity.

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415
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"[I]For the sake of this discussion, I tried FINE vs FAST mode again last night, first time I've tried FAST mode in a couple months actually. Demoed using XBOX ONE and FORZA 5 (now that I think about it, I should have taken pics). I have to admit, the image looked pretty bad in FAST mode vs FINE mode. Noticable degradation in picture quality and A LOT more jagged lines and aliasing that is not present in FINE mode. Even color quality seemed to suffer. I wouldn't doubt it was kicked down to 720P resolution either. Good thing I hardly ever use FAST mode since I'm usually watching movies or playing games offline where lag isn't a huge issue so I keep it in FINE mode. I am not satisfied with the quality of the FAST mode image."
This is my problem ... I haven't been able to reproduce *anything* remotely close to those "results." In fact, I already proven empirically, beyond any doubt, that there is no "kicking down to 720p." At this point, the only hypotheses that any makes sense would be the color bit-depth being trimmed from 32/24 to 16 ... or the "PC resolution" issue.

To be honest, I don't know what to make of all this ... Historically, I've always been able to reproduce and verify these display "flaws" or limitations quite quickly first hand. My "frustration" here is, in part, due to my inability (so far) to reproduce the issue ... and partly from the concern that a possible "non-issue" is being used to ... "bash" ... a product unfairly. Again, If I were able to verify the quoted "review" above, I might sing a different tune.

Personally, when I "bash" something, I like to be sure I'm on "solid ground." To be clear, I'm not saying that the quoted "review" above isn't possible ... I'm just saying that I haven't been able to reproduce or verify those "observations."

PS: There *are* a few verifiable and measurable flaws and limits of the 2030, but, somehow, those never seem to get mentioned in any "professional" or "owner" based reviews which in turn makes me question .... well let's just say many things about said reviews.

Last edited by HDTVChallenged; 12-13-2014 at 09:33 AM.
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post #30 of 77 Old 12-13-2014, 09:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarthaAnn View Post
Thank you Ftoast & agent8, I've been browsing the forums for quite a bit the last few days and have seen posts saying that floor mounted projectors need angular reflective screens (hence asking if I need a special screen or not). I've also read way too many debates between the w1070 and optoma projectors than I can count. Which is why I stated that I'm pretty sure I've made the decision, but I can be swayed in either direction at this point. It is too bad there aren't any stores (at least in my area) that would allow you to compare projectors side by side, hell even audio stores in my area have gone the way of the do-do bird.

Would anyone know of a store that would allow me to compare projectors side by side within 3-4 hours of Scranton PA? Due to the fact that I had a horrible experience buying a home theater receiver and speakers that sounded like garbage last year (STR-DN840 & Polk Audio TsI's), I'd like to at least take even a few minutes to compare models while they are running rather than jumping the gun and potentially ending up with something I hate.
I live about 30 minutes from you out towards hazleton, im in the middle of re modeling my basement but I have a dedicated room with the benq set up in a completely light controlled room on a 100 inch screen and plenty of 3d glasses, if I get some free time between work and working in the basement ill shoot you a message and your welcome to come check it out.
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