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post #1 of 12 Old 05-19-2015, 07:37 AM - Thread Starter
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Sony HW40ES - Does it support 10bit color?

I posted this in the dedicated thread but didn't get a response so I made this thread.

I can't find anything on this within the specs sheet, I see a lot of color banding right now. It could also be because my HDMI isn't 10bit capable.

Thanks
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post #2 of 12 Old 05-19-2015, 08:12 AM
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Not an answer, but possibly important:
Are you having banding problems while playing a video source with 10bit color?
I would expect a 10bit source to be very rare seeing how 8 is the standard, and I'd expect a 10bit display to mean very little when fed an 8bit source.

Unless the source is a good bluray, I'd blame a poorer quality source before blaming bitrate.
If it IS a good bluray, it might be worth making sure the projector and source are set for matching 16-235 or 0-255 as well as cinema preset with low-modest sharpness settings.

Sorry I don't know more.
It sucks when you start noticing quality issues that interrupt the enjoyment of a movie.

Simple <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room, build in a day, takedown in an hour.
Easy $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
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post #3 of 12 Old 05-19-2015, 11:10 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ftoast View Post
Not an answer, but possibly important:
Are you having banding problems while playing a video source with 10bit color?
I would expect a 10bit source to be very rare seeing how 8 is the standard, and I'd expect a 10bit display to mean very little when fed an 8bit source.

Unless the source is a good bluray, I'd blame a poorer quality source before blaming bitrate.
If it IS a good bluray, it might be worth making sure the projector and source are set for matching 16-235 or 0-255 as well as cinema preset with low-modest sharpness settings.

Sorry I don't know more.
It sucks when you start noticing quality issues that interrupt the enjoyment of a movie.
Well, that's the thing. Pre-rendered sources like blu-rays or just movies in general have their (8bit) colors encoded into them, which makes the use of 10bit color depth rather useless.

While live-rendered sources, like games, webpages rendered in browsers or other types of computer software, will go as far as your set-up can take them. The color banding is very obvious when looking at websites with a gradiant background, which is used a lot.
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post #4 of 12 Old 05-19-2015, 11:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by christoffeldg View Post
Well, that's the thing. Pre-rendered sources like blu-rays or just movies in general have their (8bit) colors encoded into them, which makes the use of 10bit color depth rather useless.

While live-rendered sources, like games, webpages rendered in browsers or other types of computer software, will go as far as your set-up can take them. The color banding is very obvious when looking at websites with a gradiant background, which is used a lot.
Can you give an example? I can look at it when I get home tonight on my 40ES. Though, as of yet, I haven't noticed any banding issues, actually, quite the opposite since I came from DLP which is known to have some banding.
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post #5 of 12 Old 05-19-2015, 12:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jarrod1937 View Post
Can you give an example? I can look at it when I get home tonight on my 40ES. Though, as of yet, I haven't noticed any banding issues, actually, quite the opposite since I came from DLP which is known to have some banding.
Try running Steam, the background of that application had banding issues.
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post #6 of 12 Old 05-19-2015, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by christoffeldg View Post
Try running Steam, the background of that application had banding issues.
Any other examples? I only have steam on my HTPC.
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post #7 of 12 Old 05-19-2015, 01:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Any other examples? I only have steam on my HTPC.
Try the steam website, pretty sure it also has gradiants in the background.
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post #8 of 12 Old 05-19-2015, 01:27 PM
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Originally Posted by christoffeldg View Post
Try the steam website, pretty sure it also has gradiants in the background.
That's the reason why I asked, at least on their website I am seeing banding, but on my photography grade IPS monitors. Both the steam application as well as their site are probably using a palettized image format like gif or 8 bit png, which inherently has banding in gradations due to the color palette limit. I'll still check when I get home though.
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post #9 of 12 Old 05-19-2015, 01:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jarrod1937 View Post
That's the reason why I asked, at least on their website I am seeing banding, but on my photography grade IPS monitors. Both the steam application as well as their site are probably using a palettized image format like gif or 8 bit png, which inherently has banding in gradations due to the color palette limit. I'll still check when I get home though.
That's even stranger, because my laptop (HP Elitebook Folio) does NOT show the banding. Or at least to a far smaller degree. If you're a graphic designer maybe try to create your own gradiant in CSS?

Here's something I generated really fast:
HTML Code:
<html><body><div id='mygradiant'></div>
<style>
#mygradiant {
width:100%;
height:100%;
background: #ff0509; /* Old browsers */
background: -moz-linear-gradient(top,  #ff0509 0%, #560001 100%); /* FF3.6+ */
background: -webkit-gradient(linear, left top, left bottom, color-stop(0%,#ff0509), color-stop(100%,#560001)); /* Chrome,Safari4+ */
background: -webkit-linear-gradient(top,  #ff0509 0%,#560001 100%); /* Chrome10+,Safari5.1+ */
background: -o-linear-gradient(top,  #ff0509 0%,#560001 100%); /* Opera 11.10+ */
background: -ms-linear-gradient(top,  #ff0509 0%,#560001 100%); /* IE10+ */
background: linear-gradient(to bottom,  #ff0509 0%,#560001 100%); /* W3C */
filter: progid:DXImageTransform.Microsoft.gradient( startColorstr='#ff0509', endColorstr='#560001',GradientType=0 ); /* IE6-9 */
}
</style>
</body></html>
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post #10 of 12 Old 05-19-2015, 03:41 PM
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The banding on steam is most definitely from its background image, not the projector. You can tell by the unevenness of it as well. Using a proper gradient I see no banding on my 40ES. I checked with both a grayscale as well are RGB gradients. I can make you some in Photoshop if you want, though you should be able to find patterns online, look for ones that are 24 bit PNG as JPEG will distort it.
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post #11 of 12 Old 05-20-2015, 09:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jarrod1937 View Post
The banding on steam is most definitely from its background image, not the projector. You can tell by the unevenness of it as well. Using a proper gradient I see no banding on my 40ES. I checked with both a grayscale as well are RGB gradients. I can make you some in Photoshop if you want, though you should be able to find patterns online, look for ones that are 24 bit PNG as JPEG will distort it.
Super, many thanks. I'll check it out once I'm back home. You're right, it might've been just the Steam background that was bothering me so much.
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post #12 of 12 Old 05-20-2015, 09:56 AM
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Originally Posted by christoffeldg View Post
Super, many thanks. I'll check it out once I'm back home. You're right, it might've been just the Steam background that was bothering me so much.
No problem. Keep in mind that in any 8 bit per channel display, you will get some banding to some degree, it depends how closely you're looking at things. 8 bits gives you 2^8 or 256 gradations, if you have a gradient stretching 8 feet on your projector, you may very well notice the gradation changes. Keep in mind too, that even your computer will probably output 8 bits per channel, as even the 32 bit color option is 8*8*8 for RGB and 8 bits for an 8 bit alpha transparency channel.
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