My First Projector! HD28DSE Should be in 10/20/2015 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 23 Old 10-19-2015, 04:11 PM - Thread Starter
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My First Projector! HD28DSE Should be in 10/20/2015

I finally broke down and ordered my first projector. Should be here tomorrow. I'm going to try for 107" at 12'.
My viewing environment is very dark. All windows blacked out. Very little ambient light from various gadgets.
I've already built my frame. Going to do a DIY Fixed frame 110" with 107" viewable.
The wall behind it is painted beige however I caught a special on black felt over at Walmart and I think I have enough
to create a black backdrop for the rest of the wall. My ceilings are vaulted so I decided to go with a tripod projector stand.

Anyone else using an Optoma HD28DSE? I'd love to know your calibration settings.
Pictures to come after I have everything setup.

I'm coming from 3 wall mounted Toshiba 55" TVs - 55L6200U at a resolution of 5760x1080.
I don't do cable or Blu-ray. Mostly spend my time watching subtitled anime and gaming. My computer is my only input.
Since it's my first projector I'm not sure if I'm susceptible to the rainbow effect. I guess we'll find out.
Over all I'm really excited.

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post #2 of 23 Old 10-19-2015, 04:18 PM
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Thats cool, hopefully you dont see the rainbow effect, I hated it and went back and bought an LCD projector. Much better for me anyways I use mine for movies and gaming from my PC.
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post #3 of 23 Old 10-19-2015, 10:05 PM
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Seems like an odd choice to buy a projector with Darbee built in if your sources are just PC.

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post #4 of 23 Old 10-20-2015, 01:46 AM
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A lot of games and practically all animated content will prefer a good balance of colors and whites like an RGB-colorwheel projector offers (something like the simultaneously better and cheaper Benq w1070/1075 and Vivitek 1186), but that Optoma can also achieve a fairly good balance at the expense of some Black&White brightness and contrast.

If you prefer to stick with the Optoma, switch it into a Cinema preset and turn the control labeled Brilliantcolor down to its minimum for the most accurate colors with decently tuned balance.

If you are able/willing to return the Optoma, a $650-700 Benq w1070/1075 or Vivitek 1186 will give even more accurate and vivid color and higher full-color contrast.
They'll also give more zoom-range and lens-shift for slightly easier mounting.

Because you mentioned a tripod, you should be warned that all of these projectors should be either upsidedown and slightly above the screen's top OR rightsideup and slightly below the screen's bottom.
The bottom makes it pretty likely your body will block the image while the top makes it likely you won't be able to use a tripod.
Hanging it upsidedown from a small shelf or a rear-wall-mount is probably a better bet which will help keep a sharp 1:1 pixel-map and avoid distorting the image.

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
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post #5 of 23 Old 10-20-2015, 03:58 AM
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pot player does the same as darbee dablet 5000....
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post #6 of 23 Old 10-20-2015, 05:57 AM - Thread Starter
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So sounds like I may end up returning it. Not sure I understand the Darbee stuff. Why wouldn't you want Darbee if your source is a computer?

Wow nor sure what to do about mounting the projector. Sounds like I'll have to build a custom shelf to mount it on.

You mentioned the benq or the vivitech. I should have posted here first. After selling my 3 Toshiba tvs I only had a 22 inch tv I've been squinting at. I must have lost my mind. I tried to pick a gaming projector with a long bulb life that would be very bright so it looked as much like a regular tv as possible. My price range is around 1k. Which projector shold I buy?
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post #7 of 23 Old 10-20-2015, 07:57 AM
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It sounds like the Optoma is already headed your way, so it's definitely worth checking out while you're safely inside the return-period.
The only real drawbacks of it are the non-RGB colorwheel which permanently sacrifices colors to gain some added white/grey brightness, and the price is a little high.
The colors sacrificed for white is why the Optoma claims 3000+lumens but only outputs about 650lumens of color. The Benq and Vivitek output color that's 2X brighter because they aren't trying to cheat-up their white measurement. This means you can run the Benq or Vivitek in Eco-lamp or SmartEco all the time and have a very bright image PLUS the much longer lamp-life from Eco/SmartEco.
Win/win.

The bad thing (not really bad) about using the darkbee projector with a computer is that the computer is already capable of adding the darbee effect but for $0 where the Optoma is basically a $600 hd141 which costs a couple hundred extra because they added the darbee software built-in.
So you're essentially paying $200+ for something that you could do for free.

The Vivitek 1186 and Benq w1070/1075 are also excellent gamers but they cost a little less and offer a bit better performance in a few picture-quality areas.
The Benq has particularly good color-accuracy right out-of-the-box while the Vivitek boasts a 3year warranty.
Both can fill your 107"/110" screen from just under 12ft back, but the Benq also has the option to mount a ways closer while the Vivitek has the ability to mount a ways farther back.
The Benq also has about 5inches total of up/down screen-shift which can help if you accidentally mount the screen or projector a couple inches too high/low..though a small shelf used for handing the projector from should be pretty easy to adjust.
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Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415
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post #8 of 23 Old 10-20-2015, 09:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ftoast View Post
It sounds like the Optoma is already headed your way, so it's definitely worth checking out while you're safely inside the return-period.
The only real drawbacks of it are the non-RGB colorwheel which permanently sacrifices colors to gain some added white/grey brightness, and the price is a little high.
The colors sacrificed for white is why the Optoma claims 3000+lumens but only outputs about 650lumens of color. The Benq and Vivitek output color that's 2X brighter because they aren't trying to cheat-up their white measurement. This means you can run the Benq or Vivitek in Eco-lamp or SmartEco all the time and have a very bright image PLUS the much longer lamp-life from Eco/SmartEco.
Win/win.
.
The BenQ draws full power at 353 watts and the Optoma 262 watts, is another way to look at it. A good deal of the extra 91 watts I would guess are going in to producing the extra light needed to produce RGB white light and high RGB lumen output, along with more waste heat. From a power point of view running the BenQ in eco it will still draw more current than the Optoma in bright mode. How that effects lamp life is a different thing as you have to assume the BenQ’s lamp is designed larger or better to produce more light and when going to lesser light the life will improve.

I just bought a RGBCWY DLP projector coming from a RGBW projector. I looked at the color lumen numbers for one that higher outputs and in a 3000 overall brightness I found one that had color lumens measured around 800. My intent was to view for myself how bad or good this newer method of making color light is. In a very unscientific way I have had a month now watching a variety of sources with different lighting levels in the room and experimenting with all the brilliant color modes and such. The only tool I used in evaluating the images were my eyes.

I personally don’t feel RGBCWY is a total gimmick as I feel it works and works well IMO. On the other hand it is a gimmick as it allows them to print an unrealistic home theater lumen output number for that projector. It’s a number that sometimes under some types of viewing to be a real number you would actually use. In my case they tell you it’s 3000 lumens and in reality with perfect color reproduction its 800 at best. Having had the time to get a real feel for how much I feel they could reasonably claim where I would say it might not be perfect but to my eyes it’s perfect enough I would call it a 1500/1800 projector and I might even go as high as saying 2000. After 2000 it basically turns into a business projector. That shouldn’t undermine the fact that down around 1200 as far as I can tell its every bit a great home theater projector.

I don’t know if there is a formula that would hold true for all the non RGB projectors but based around my trial sample of one I would say take the rated true color lumens and multiply by 1.5 at least and assume the average guy would be pretty happy viewing that content. It is in no way just diluting it with 50% white IMO.

As to the OP I agree with Ftoast he may be buying features not needed or could get more for the same cost going another direction. Or maybe get the same for less in yet another direction, that I don’t know for sure.

Bud
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post #9 of 23 Old 10-20-2015, 09:18 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ftoast View Post
It sounds like the Optoma is already headed your way, so it's definitely worth checking out while you're safely inside the return-period.
The only real drawbacks of it are the non-RGB colorwheel which permanently sacrifices colors to gain some added white/grey brightness, and the price is a little high.
The colors sacrificed for white is why the Optoma claims 3000+lumens but only outputs about 650lumens of color. The Benq and Vivitek output color that's 2X brighter because they aren't trying to cheat-up their white measurement. This means you can run the Benq or Vivitek in Eco-lamp or SmartEco all the time and have a very bright image PLUS the much longer lamp-life from Eco/SmartEco.
Win/win.

The bad thing (not really bad) about using the darkbee projector with a computer is that the computer is already capable of adding the darbee effect but for $0 where the Optoma is basically a $600 hd141 which costs a couple hundred extra because they added the darbee software built-in.
So you're essentially paying $200+ for something that you could do for free.

The Vivitek 1186 and Benq w1070/1075 are also excellent gamers but they cost a little less and offer a bit better performance in a few picture-quality areas.
The Benq has particularly good color-accuracy right out-of-the-box while the Vivitek boasts a 3year warranty.
Both can fill your 107"/110" screen from just under 12ft back, but the Benq also has the option to mount a ways closer while the Vivitek has the ability to mount a ways farther back.
The Benq also has about 5inches total of up/down screen-shift which can help if you accidentally mount the screen or projector a couple inches too high/low..though a small shelf used for handing the projector from should be pretty easy to adjust.
I didn't realize that the Darbee was just software processing built into the projector. After all the good advice I plan on ordering a new projector today. I will keep the HD28DSE while I wait for the new one to get in. I probably can't keep the Darbee processing while it's in game mode anyhow. Now I just have to figure out if I should go with the Benq or the Vivitek. Thanks all for the great advice.
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post #10 of 23 Old 10-21-2015, 07:25 AM - Thread Starter
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Well, I got an advanced full refund from Amazon. The HD28DSE will go back today. I took out a line of credit and pre ordered the Sony VPLVW365ES. Went up for pre order last night. Release date is Oct 26.
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post #11 of 23 Old 10-21-2015, 08:52 AM
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Hi, I don't agree with that comparisons.

Optoma also have presets for optimal colorimetry with good results in professional reviews, at least similar to BenQ equivalents in that reviews (ProjectorCentral..). As it has been said, the "bright" preset is just an extra for especial situations on daylight were you want to give priority to brightness, even at cost of color accuracy. That preset is bad for watching a movie, but it solves the problem for watching television mid day with windows open. For watching movies you will simply switch to use the Cinema preset or Reference presets.

Looking at the comments, it seems that BenQ could provide a bit more brightness at a same color accuracy, but you only want more brightness in difficult lighting conditions, were color accuracy is typically the less important thing and not achievable anyway.

The BenQ short throw is an advantage for small rooms, or for using it in a coffe table. For permanent installations I prefer long throw, as I can put it on furniture on the back and I don't need any ceiling mount (I am in a rented flat, no holes allowed..), and also because HD28DSE comes with dual keystoning and even 4 point adjust, which is a good thing for temporal usage in other places.

About Darebee, having a PC does not give you Darebee capabilities "for free". Darebee is a good as a post-process to compensate for projector limitations (a midrange fullHD projector is not enough for having superior detail and full contrast in a big screen, (a high end 4K projector would be needed) so you will want to add some "Darebee" effect to compensate for this fact. That is not as good as a high end projector, but at least something in between. Also you can not apply any post-fllter to a video game output, as it goes directly from the graphics board connector. And even less a patented process as Darebee. Still Darebee can not do magic. I don't like the idea to "improve" contrast and sharpening of a movie, as when it is left "soft" it is typically due to creative decisions and for a good reason, so changing it is not an improvement at all. But I really like the idea to compensate for projector limitations a lot. I have watched Darebee in action, and used in moderation it can really reduce the limitations of consumer projectors.

Regarding Rainbow effects, according to other reviews they are not visible in normal modes ( Echo mode), which is the logical mode to use most of the time.

Finally, HD28DSE is a bit more expensive, but it promises a much longer live for the lamp, better 3D (optional), a brighter mode for daylight, a lense with longer throw (if it is what you want), and 4 point adjustment. In any case both are good projectors, here I am talking in favour of Optoma because I felt it was too criticized, but I could do the same with BenQ if it were the opposite case.
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post #12 of 23 Old 10-21-2015, 09:50 AM
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The Benq isn't just a little brighter, its colorbrightness and full-color contrast measures 2X higher which also means it can be run in Eco/SmartEco-lamp while being simultaneously brighter, more accurate and having longer lamp-life.
That Optoma also requires fairly extensive calibration to reach the same level of accuracy the Benq gives straight out of the box.
Also, to use the optional Vesa port 3D functions requires an additional ~$99 emitter and its performance is said to still be pretty lacking, not to mention the Benq will still have twice the color-brightness and full-color contrast carrying over to 3D where extra brightness and contrast means even more.
The Benq also has similar keystone options (vertical and horizontal) like the Optoma, but all that should be avoided whenever possible for its degradation to image-quality.

If you prefer a longer throw, the Vivitek 1186 offers much longer throw-range and all the RGB-colorwheel benefits of the Benq along with a 3year warranty and Vesa port for external 3D emitter, but it loses the vertical lens-shift and particularly good out-of-box accuracy of the Benq.

Both are also $100-200 cheaper than the Optoma..money that could go toward an actual darbee mini (Darblet) which is $150-300 and I believe offers more flexible settings than the built-in version.

Optoma DOES have a couple nice RGB models too, but they have either very expensive replacement lamps ($400+) or poor input-lag and accuracy problems, and they cost hundreds more while offering little/no performance advantage over the Benq and Vivitek.


That Sony should be a pretty sweet thing once the room is nicely dark.

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415

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post #13 of 23 Old 10-21-2015, 09:54 AM
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Whatever Projector Central has said about the Optoma HD28DSE, when they publish their test results of the new BenQ HT2050 and HT3050 in the next week or two I'm confident that the new BenQ models will score higher in the areas that matter most to most home theater enthusiasts. I believe we will see BenQ remain the standard to beat in the sub-$1,000 class for mainstream home theater with the HD28DSE becoming a niche model for a smaller group of users with different priorities.
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This is getting interesting, as I am in the process to buy an HD28SDE (but I not confirmed yet).

Why? Because all the other projectors that you mention (and others I investigated) are either short throw (like BenQ models) or they lack horizontal keystoning (Vivitek doesn't have it), which is something critical for my location (sorry, it is not that I would not like to have a central position available, but my girlfriend will not agree to move to other flat just for that reason).

Also because even if I found a couple of models covering those aspects they are not bright at all, which is my other need (this is just to watch sports and similar programs under day light were color accuracy is irrelevant for me, as I only want "good quality" (and I want it a lot) for watching movies at night.

So my only chances are either the HD28DSE or either going to a significant higher cost. The fact is that I could expend a bit more, but looking at reviews I will not get more quality expending 25% more, just some extra flexibility and secondary aspects. For truly higher quality (better lens, 4K resolution, or premium brands like Sony ) the cost difference seems to be really substantial.

BTW: The Darebee processing does not add any extra latency, so it is perfectly usable for gaming. Although my main interest is on film (I am ocassional gamer). Not that I am a fan of Darebee at all, but I recognize that it is a plus, as any small increase in perceived quality is always a primary objective. And using Darebee processing in small amounts can just do that ).

So it seems that the HD28SDE should still my primary option. Or am I missing something?

In any case, thanks for your advices. I have learned quite a few things about this market by reading your comments
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post #15 of 23 Old 10-21-2015, 03:45 PM - Thread Starter
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My little time with the HD28SE I would have to say that the colors felt a bit washed out to me. Nothing really popped. Although I did not do any custom calibration. I went through the different presets and thought that Cinema mode with a Warm color tone looked the best. The Darbee processing that is latency free is pretty cool. It seemed to me that if I turned it up to make the details pop that it introduced a very tiny amount of screen noise. I didn't get a chance to mess with much of anything. I tried turning on Dynamic Black. I'd suggest saying away from that. Causes a pretty nasty flickering of gamma when watching a movie. The fact that the Darbee processing is latency free is certainly a plus for Gaming and it defiantly feels like it's the selling point to the projector. Overall the Gamma was turned up way too high by default however if I turned it down to a reasonable level the Movie clips seemed a bit dark to me. I am a little night blind though and am not great and making out shadow detail.
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post #16 of 23 Old 10-21-2015, 05:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by javiej View Post
This is getting interesting, as I am in the process to buy an HD28SDE (but I not confirmed yet).

Why? Because all the other projectors that you mention (and others I investigated) are either short throw (like BenQ models) or they lack horizontal keystoning (Vivitek doesn't have it), which is something critical for my location (sorry, it is not that I would not like to have a central position available, but my girlfriend will not agree to move to other flat just for that reason).
The Benq 1075 can zoom out to 1.5:1 while the Optoma at 1.62:1max can only zoom a tiny bit farther back..they are pretty close with how far they can be mounted, the Benq just has a lot of zoom-range for mounting closer if needed.
And the 1075 has horizontal keystone.

Otherwise you might consider the Epson 8345r (if you can find one) because it'll often be found around $550 while having very low-lag, solid color-brightness, and it can be mounted to the side without the picture quality loss of digital keystone because its lens allows optical horizontal shift.

Both the Benq and Optoma lose resolution and brightness when using horizontal keystone which is the only way they can mount toward the side.

That's rough though, needing to mount off-center.
I wish more projectors offered horizontal keystone just in case for situations like yours..it's not like having the option hurts anything or really costs extra to add.

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415

Last edited by Ftoast; 10-21-2015 at 06:05 PM.
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post #17 of 23 Old 10-21-2015, 06:48 PM
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The Benq 1075 can zoom out to 1.5:1 while the Optoma at 1.62:1max can only zoom a tiny bit farther back..they are pretty close
The Optoma throw ratio is at the very limit of what I need, but still ok. But (according to the throw ratio calculators) the Benq would make a picture too big for my wall. That 8% difference means several centimeters at 4m distance, where it needs to be.

To be more specific, my only possible location is over a kitchen hood (it is a living room with open kitchen, and over the kitchen hood there is a place well isolated from heat, and the Optoma is only 2.6Kg so I hope it will not bring the whole thing down...). In that place I will still need some horizontal keystoning, but I can live without some pixels.

Regarding Epson 8345r I don't find it around. Epson have some other interesting models with much bigger throw ratio, which can give me more possible locations (on top of the fridge...), but they cost double the price.

Maybe it sounds weird, but there are many people like me, living in rented flats with contracts that are renewed each year, were permanent installations or making holes for ceiling mounts are not desirable at all. Installation flexibility is a big plus for nomads like me.

Anyway, thanks for your suggestions.
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post #18 of 23 Old 10-22-2015, 02:48 AM
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The Optoma throw ratio is at the very limit of what I need, but still ok. But (according to the throw ratio calculators) the Benq would make a picture too big for my wall. That 8% difference means several centimeters at 4m distance, where it needs to be.

Maybe it sounds weird, but there are many people like me, living in rented flats with contracts that are renewed each year, were permanent installations or making holes for ceiling mounts are not desirable at all. Installation flexibility is a big plus for nomads like me.

Anyway, thanks for your suggestions.
Ahh, good point. The only other option I'm seeing anywhere close is the Epson 3000 which can be found around $900-1000 that has a longer zoom as well as both horizontal lens-shift AND horizontal keystone.
Very flexible and very bright, but possibly over budget.

I can understand (I'm using a tripod instead of drilling holes), you'll likely require some kind of little portable shelf to hang the projector upsidedown beneath and be able to set the shelf on whatever surface you'll be using.

Otherwise I have to ask, would a short-throw projector set on a short table in front of the seats be an option?
There's really only one option (Benq w1080/1085) with higher color-brightness and contrast than that Optoma though and the $800-850 price isn't terribly tempting compared to $550 or $650 of the others that won't fit your space.

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415
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post #19 of 23 Old 10-22-2015, 05:24 PM
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Ahh, good point. The only other option I'm seeing anywhere close is the Epson 3000
Which model it is? I have checked some Epsons, but I don't find the "3000" model. In general, Epson reviews and specs are good but they are siginificantly more expensive, so my question about Epson is: When they cost double price for similar specs on paper, do you really get double quality or so?

I mean, forget about all other aspects, to expend double the price or more I need to see an inmediate and very noticeable jump on image quality out of the box, as soon as you look at the screen, even if you don't know nothing about projectors. Otherwise it does not worth it. Not for me.

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Originally Posted by Ftoast View Post
I can understand (I'm using a tripod instead of drilling holes), you'll likely require some kind of little portable shelf to hang the projector upsidedown beneath and be able to set the shelf on whatever surface you'll be using.
Actually I am thinking to place it hanging from the ceiling mounts of the kitchen hood with metal cords and tensors, not using any solid surface (except the vertical hood at the back). That is because I am afraid of adding too much weight, (another good point of this Optoma is that it is really light). If possible, I don't want the whole kitchen hood falling on hot oil injuring everybody. So it will be a flying projector. But if it goes wrong I could still put some furniture close to that position as a last resource.

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Originally Posted by Ftoast View Post
Otherwise I have to ask, would a short-throw projector set on a short table in front of the seats be an option?
Would you do that? is the whole concept here to build a home theater or a powerpoint theater? having to readjust the whole thing every day? having to explain your friends that a projector is not a table for the pizzas, nor it is a footstool?

No.

Me too.

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Originally Posted by Ftoast View Post
There's really only one option (Benq w1080/1085)
I agree. In fact I like that one, a lot.

But as much as I think in the whole "coffe table" concept... more than I hate it. Maybe it can be good for others, but I am engineer, and to me it would be a fail. Just a workaround because I was not able to solve the problem. I could do something like that at work, but doing it in my home... it goes against my religion.

What is weird is that this is not a technical issue at all, short throw and long throw lenses have similar costs and they should be easily interchangeable, or at least alternative. What I think is that marketing departments of projector manufacturers are using this thing to differentiate "markets", just because they don't know how to do it properly.

If you look at the specs of projectors, they put the same components on a box, and from that point they create one hundred models by changing stupid complements that you could add yourselve very cheap, like MHL ports, Ethernet ports, wireless connections, speakers and audio ports, additional HDMI or VGA ports, and similar aspects, completely ignoring the main purpose of a projector. But they don't offer the option of something so basic like a different lense, like you can do with almost any other optical devices, from cameras to telescopes or microscopes. But here it is not offer. If you want it, buy a high end model and pay for another 50 toys that you will never use in yur life.

But I refuse to go into that game. I can expend more money, yes. But if I pay more I want to invest it in a better lense, a better lamp, or the 4K resolution, not in the same projector with more WTF toys.

This should be much easier to find, but to complicate it more each brand has 40 different models that in reality are 3 only projectors combined with 30 different toys. I am sure they are not doing more sales with this policy, they just manage to make their clients to buy the wrong one.
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post #20 of 23 Old 10-22-2015, 08:56 PM
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Though it might partly be a "misery loves company" thing, I'm always glad to hear someone else get upset about the crazy amount of clones and everyone missing something important and yet ridiculously easy to add...makes me feel less crazy.

Do you have anything similar size/weight you can test the floating projector idea with to make sure it stays put and holds still?
Sounds scary to me, but I'm no engineer.

I wonder if the Epson hc3000 is called by its European name in your region.
Actually, if I remember right the European models didn't get an hc3000 equivalent..only the much more expensive hc3500 twin-sister.

I can see your point about the short-throw. In a rowdy place it's ceiling/high or its gonna get broken.

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415
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post #21 of 23 Old 10-23-2015, 12:19 PM
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Regarding Epson I don't find the 3000, but they have a new model in similar price range to the Optoma, which is the TW5350.

It has a better lense, better throw ratio and keystoning ranges. It is also better than Optoma in most aspects. But...

The only reliable review of this model says the black levels are really bad in comparison with competitors. In fact it is very evident on photographs of the screen, not just a subtle difference. This is something expected on LCD projectors of this range, but it is a key point that I can't ignore. It is a pity as it is so good in other aspects... but very sadly I have to discard it.
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post #22 of 23 Old 10-23-2015, 08:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Well in the end I wussed out on the Sony 365ES. I just could bring myself to spend that kind of money. After another day or so of research I decided to go with the Epson 5030UB. I just ordered a Refurbished one from ApexVisual. I'm thinking it will be a very good projector until 4k becomes more mainstream.
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post #23 of 23 Old 10-24-2015, 04:47 AM
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Originally Posted by quaddragon View Post
After another day or so of research I decided to go with the Epson 5030UB. I just ordered a Refurbished one from ApexVisual. I'm thinking it will be a very good projector until 4k becomes more mainstream.
This is funny, I started buying the same Optoma model as you (I was only stopped because it was not in stock till next week) but now I am suffering the same abduction process to Epson.

Now I am fighting for an Epson TW7200 ( for the superb quality, great brightness, and non distracting black levels. But also because the lens shift and throw ratio that I really need ).

The price is crazy, so I am also looking for refurbished or ex-display units, even with scratches and half burned lamps. Not that I don't mind those things, but I want to concentrate my investment on what it is important

This is going to cost me an extra hundred pints in the pubs, but at the end, the home theatre concept is like Yoda said. Luke, do or do not, there is no "try".
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