Managing Projector Bulb Flicker - Page 3 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #61 of 74 Old 03-10-2016, 08:14 PM
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Originally Posted by the1shark View Post
The flicker is not related to any mode / frame rate / or HZ..
When it happens it happens even if you don't have any source connected to the PJ.
Just hit menu and you will see the flickers, launch the projector grid and you will see it flickers.
It is definitely the bulb or the power source to the bulb.

the1shark
While it may not be related, it does however help hide it, because as i mentioned on my previous posts, on over 300h at 60hz, not single a minute i seen the flicker fest i get sometimes with 24hz and i have a very sensitive eyes, so as soon as it happens i see it.

Also mentioned by others members, even one having a dlp, have the same results.
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post #62 of 74 Old 03-11-2016, 03:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leila80 View Post
While it may not be related, it does however help hide it, because as i mentioned on my previous posts, on over 300h at 60hz, not single a minute i seen the flicker fest i get sometimes with 24hz and i have a very sensitive eyes, so as soon as it happens i see it.

Also mentioned by others members, even one having a dlp, have the same results.
Yup, never seen it when watching through the cable box at 60hz. Never see it in 3d either, But regular 24hz its hit or miss, sometimes it happens, sometimes it doesn't. Changing to 3d and back or changing to standard light output for eco seems to fix it. I'm kind of bummed that my new projector I'm planning to get soon is likely going to do the same thing. I really figured it was just something with my specific projector.
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post #63 of 74 Old 03-12-2016, 05:41 AM
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Originally Posted by robl45 View Post
Yup, never seen it when watching through the cable box at 60hz. Never see it in 3d either, But regular 24hz its hit or miss, sometimes it happens, sometimes it doesn't. Changing to 3d and back or changing to standard light output for eco seems to fix it. I'm kind of bummed that my new projector I'm planning to get soon is likely going to do the same thing. I really figured it was just something with my specific projector.
Well,
3d uses high mode lamp and that is the reason it "solves" the problem.
As I said before, the flicker happens even without any source ( just launch the menu or the pj internal grid pattern and you will se the image flickering ) So you might be talking about something else.
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post #64 of 74 Old 03-12-2016, 06:37 AM
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Originally Posted by the1shark View Post
Well,
3d uses high mode lamp and that is the reason it "solves" the problem.
As I said before, the flicker happens even without any source ( just launch the menu or the pj internal grid pattern and you will se the image flickering ) So you might be talking about something else.
Thats what people say but I'm not so sure that is the case on my projector in 3d, at any rate, my stuff doesn't flicker at 60hz so maybe you just have a really bad bulb or something else wrong.
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post #65 of 74 Old 03-12-2016, 06:40 AM
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Originally Posted by robl45 View Post
Thats what people say but I'm not so sure that is the case on my projector in 3d, at any rate, my stuff doesn't flicker at 60hz so maybe you just have a really bad bulb or something else wrong.
I hope it's a bad bulb. A replacment is on it's way.
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post #66 of 74 Old 05-10-2017, 11:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Dave in Green View Post
I will gladly switch to LED or laser when the price/performance ratio merits. In the meantime I've never met a flicker that wasn't corrected by temporarily changing the lamp power setting.
I have. My unit got to the point after about 1000 hrs that it completely ruined two lamps, even on high power. I shipped back to Sony and got a new ballast, but the trashed lamp still only ran for 50 hrs before flickering again. Sad to lose 2 bulbs.

Right now, all high contrast high PQ non-DLP home theater projectors <$7999 are bulb-based. It's a little premature to call bulb users suckers. I can't stand DLP, my eyes notice the rainbow with every flick of my eye, even on really high end ones. Sigh.

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post #67 of 74 Old 05-11-2017, 05:49 PM
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I have had my 2040 twice failed to strike in the past year or so. It would try to turn on, then give me a lamp warming and fan run full.
My solution is use full power mode occasionally and it has been fine ever since.
Running a bulb in low mode is like babying an engine, it will do more harm than good.

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post #68 of 74 Old 05-12-2017, 08:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danielrg View Post
I have. My unit got to the point after about 1000 hrs that it completely ruined two lamps, even on high power. I shipped back to Sony and got a new ballast, but the trashed lamp still only ran for 50 hrs before flickering again. Sad to lose 2 bulbs.

Right now, all high contrast high PQ non-DLP home theater projectors <$7999 are bulb-based. It's a little premature to call bulb users suckers. I can't stand DLP, my eyes notice the rainbow with every flick of my eye, even on really high end ones. Sigh.
Epson LS10000
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post #69 of 74 Old 05-13-2017, 02:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by LumensLover View Post
Epson LS10000
Can you get it, or the LS10500 for less than $7999? I guess there are some shady channels that might have lower prices.

I salivate over this projector. If only I had the money.

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post #70 of 74 Old 05-17-2017, 08:10 AM
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Originally Posted by danielrg View Post
Can you get it, or the LS10500 for less than $7999? I guess there are some shady channels that might have lower prices.

I salivate over this projector. If only I had the money.
AVS is selling them for below $4,000 new on closeout.
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post #71 of 74 Old 06-04-2017, 02:16 AM
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Count me among in the screwed by flickering issues crowd.

I've had my VPL-HW55ES for over a year now, and used it heavily every day. Sometimes often 12+ hours a day. I ran into flickering within the first 3 months of use.

The only bulb that never flickered was the very first bulb, the one that came with the projector. It was branded LMP-H202 on the bottom, and the sticker on the phillips bulb mentioned the wattage and temperature rating.

My first replacement bulb was the 'free bulb with coupon' from Sony, an official boxed and branded LMP-H202 with filter and documentation. I wanted to burn in the bulb right away, so I swapped to it after the OG bulb had about 500 hours. This new bulb started flickering within 500 hours. I had already done the '100 hours on High' conditioning with this bulb, it didn't make a difference. This bulb did not have 'LMP-H202' or whatever or sony branding on the cartridge. The bulb had a sticker with just a serial number on it. I would later discover this is identical to 3rd-party cartridges and bulbs.

I swapped back to the original bulb and left the 'free bulb' unused until the original bulb reached about 2000 hours and was starting to be noticeably dimmer (the expected wear state). I had forgotten to take advantage of the official sony bulb's warranty, so I bought a 3rd-party bulb which used the same Phillips bulb. Having examined the cartridge, it's obviously nothing special and a mock-off would perform identically, so the real potentially sensitive item is the bulb itself.

The third party bulb also started flickering within 500 hours. I RMAd this bulb, and switched back to the 'sony free bulb'... this bulb would flicker after using the projector for 10+ hours, so I had to baby it, but continued to use it until about 2000 hours at which point it would flicker immediately upon putting it in the projector.

I switched to the RMA'd (new) 3rd-party bulb... this bulb also started flickering within 500 hours.

I've now sent my projector in for repair and so far they've been unable to reproduce any issue and want to charge me over $600 for a cleaning and a new bulb.

Here's some facts:

-- 24hz makes flickering more apparent, but it's still present at 60hz just less noticeable... input signal frequency likely couples somehow to the frequency of the bulb's input power (possibly the projector uses the HDMI signal's clock as a reference and then uses that when generating the PWM power to the bulb)

-- switching between high mode and low mode serves to change the current being driven to the bulb which seems to temporarily alleviate the issues sometimes, but when the issue is bad enough it makes no difference

-- after 10+ hours of use the flickering is significantly more likely to occur, and sometimes won't go away until the PJ is turned off for 1+ hours to cool down

-- using high fan mode seems to increase the time until the flicker occurs

-- new bulbs seem to not show the issue for a while, thus the issue appears to be extremely aggressive permanent bulb degradation (likely anode\cathode wear)

This leads me to believe that the projector is not engineered correctly to deliver consistent power to the bulb under all common operating conditions. e.g. in a <80 degrees Fahrenheit room, with high fan speed on, after 10+ hours the circuitry delivering the power begins to fall out of spec. I used to do board level repair for laptops, and the high voltage inverter boards that power the CCFL backlight bulbs is very similar to how projector bulb circuitry works... if these have issues with power filtering, regulation, or delivery (noisy power, ringing transformers, etc.) you could end up with flickering.

I think these PJs are incapable of operating to spec and are aggressively destroying bulbs due to dirty or unregulated power (after the DC conversion), and insufficient cooling to the device.

Bulbs should not flicker as they age if they've been powered adequately over their lifetime. They should begin to dim, lose contrast, and shift color, and get increasingly worse, but flicker is not a guaranteed sign of bulb death. (In fact, google 'laptop backlight flicker' and tell me how many cases you find where replacing the bulb fixed it instead of replacing the inverter... it's a power delivery issue!!)
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post #72 of 74 Old 07-14-2017, 03:56 PM
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Originally Posted by doubledgedboard View Post
Count me among in the screwed by flickering issues crowd.

I've had my VPL-HW55ES for over a year now, and used it heavily every day. Sometimes often 12+ hours a day. I ran into flickering within the first 3 months of use.

The only bulb that never flickered was the very first bulb, the one that came with the projector. It was branded LMP-H202 on the bottom, and the sticker on the phillips bulb mentioned the wattage and temperature rating.

My first replacement bulb was the 'free bulb with coupon' from Sony, an official boxed and branded LMP-H202 with filter and documentation. I wanted to burn in the bulb right away, so I swapped to it after the OG bulb had about 500 hours. This new bulb started flickering within 500 hours. I had already done the '100 hours on High' conditioning with this bulb, it didn't make a difference. This bulb did not have 'LMP-H202' or whatever or sony branding on the cartridge. The bulb had a sticker with just a serial number on it. I would later discover this is identical to 3rd-party cartridges and bulbs.

I swapped back to the original bulb and left the 'free bulb' unused until the original bulb reached about 2000 hours and was starting to be noticeably dimmer (the expected wear state). I had forgotten to take advantage of the official sony bulb's warranty, so I bought a 3rd-party bulb which used the same Phillips bulb. Having examined the cartridge, it's obviously nothing special and a mock-off would perform identically, so the real potentially sensitive item is the bulb itself.

The third party bulb also started flickering within 500 hours. I RMAd this bulb, and switched back to the 'sony free bulb'... this bulb would flicker after using the projector for 10+ hours, so I had to baby it, but continued to use it until about 2000 hours at which point it would flicker immediately upon putting it in the projector.

I switched to the RMA'd (new) 3rd-party bulb... this bulb also started flickering within 500 hours.

I've now sent my projector in for repair and so far they've been unable to reproduce any issue and want to charge me over $600 for a cleaning and a new bulb.

Here's some facts:

-- 24hz makes flickering more apparent, but it's still present at 60hz just less noticeable... input signal frequency likely couples somehow to the frequency of the bulb's input power (possibly the projector uses the HDMI signal's clock as a reference and then uses that when generating the PWM power to the bulb)

-- switching between high mode and low mode serves to change the current being driven to the bulb which seems to temporarily alleviate the issues sometimes, but when the issue is bad enough it makes no difference

-- after 10+ hours of use the flickering is significantly more likely to occur, and sometimes won't go away until the PJ is turned off for 1+ hours to cool down

-- using high fan mode seems to increase the time until the flicker occurs

-- new bulbs seem to not show the issue for a while, thus the issue appears to be extremely aggressive permanent bulb degradation (likely anode\cathode wear)

This leads me to believe that the projector is not engineered correctly to deliver consistent power to the bulb under all common operating conditions. e.g. in a <80 degrees Fahrenheit room, with high fan speed on, after 10+ hours the circuitry delivering the power begins to fall out of spec. I used to do board level repair for laptops, and the high voltage inverter boards that power the CCFL backlight bulbs is very similar to how projector bulb circuitry works... if these have issues with power filtering, regulation, or delivery (noisy power, ringing transformers, etc.) you could end up with flickering.

I think these PJs are incapable of operating to spec and are aggressively destroying bulbs due to dirty or unregulated power (after the DC conversion), and insufficient cooling to the device.

Bulbs should not flicker as they age if they've been powered adequately over their lifetime. They should begin to dim, lose contrast, and shift color, and get increasingly worse, but flicker is not a guaranteed sign of bulb death. (In fact, google 'laptop backlight flicker' and tell me how many cases you find where replacing the bulb fixed it instead of replacing the inverter... it's a power delivery issue!!)
I have about 1600 hours on my HW50ES and the flickering has become very noticeable. I haven't tried to run on high mode to see if it clears it up but with this many hours the bulb may be living on borrowed time. I still have the free bulb that came with the projector when I bought it so I may swap it out.

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post #73 of 74 Old 07-14-2017, 06:49 PM
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@satfam , you should get at least twice as many hours as 1,600 out of that lamp. Try running it on high for awhile. My previous projector developed lamp flicker after running exclusively in low lamp and all it took was about 20 hours on high lamp for the flicker to go away.
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post #74 of 74 Old 07-14-2017, 07:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave in Green View Post
@satfam , you should get at least twice as many hours as 1,600 out of that lamp. Try running it on high for awhile. My previous projector developed lamp flicker after running exclusively in low lamp and all it took was about 20 hours on high lamp for the flicker to go away.
Thanks, I'll give it a try.

H/T: Marantz 7702MK II, MM8077, MM7055, Triton 2s, SCXL, SL/SR-S50s, BL/BR-S50s, H/W-4 Sat3s, dual SB16 Ultras, Sony HW50ES, Dalite 110", Tivo PXL, PS-3, Apple TV, GIK Acoustics treatments
Gameroom: Denon AVR-X4300H, NHT S2,SC, 4 NHT ceiling speakers, 2 Velo SPL-1000R, Sony XBR65X850C, PS3, 4, Sony FMP-X10, Samsung K8500
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