Epson 5040UB ($2999) - e-Shift 4K, HDR10, WCG, Powered lens position memory - Page 3 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #61 of 3508 Old 06-23-2016, 04:37 PM
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Originally Posted by BuGsArEtAsTy View Post
It should be noted that the current Xbox One doesn't even support Blu-ray completely. There is no Atmos support, because Microsoft has so far refused to properly implement bitstreaming for some reason.



So, you can get Atmos with $50 Blu-ray players, but you can't get Atmos with an Xbox One. Who knows if that will carry over to the 4K version of Xbox One. 4K without Atmos would be an abomination.





The 5040UB doesn't have 4K. It has 1080p LCD, but then shifts it around to simulate 4K.



That's what I meant by "e-Shift" in the title, although technically that is a term used by JVC.


Yep, Epson calls it "4K enhancement" instead of e-Shift.


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post #62 of 3508 Old 06-23-2016, 05:57 PM
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Originally Posted by BuGsArEtAsTy View Post
It should be noted that the current Xbox One doesn't even support Blu-ray completely. There is no Atmos support, because Microsoft has so far refused to properly implement bitstreaming for some reason.

So, you can get Atmos with $50 Blu-ray players, but you can't get Atmos with an Xbox One. Who knows if that will carry over to the 4K version of Xbox One. 4K without Atmos would be an abomination.


The 5040UB doesn't have 4K. It has 1080p LCD, but then shifts it around to simulate 4K.

That's what I meant by "e-Shift" in the title, although technically that is a term used by JVC.

But the bonus here is that the Epson can actually input a 4K signal and understand it, and convert it to their fake 4K. And it can make use of HDR too, which to me is the bigger deal.
In other words, it's a fake 4K, I suppose..
Though visibly it may not be much different than actual 4K.
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post #63 of 3508 Old 06-23-2016, 09:08 PM
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Waiting for reviews in august... while I wait, I'm already saving and be ready to buy this (or Sony 45).

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post #64 of 3508 Old 06-24-2016, 07:41 AM
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In other words, it's a fake 4K, I suppose..
Though visibly it may not be much different than actual 4K.
Just out of curiosity, is everyone ready to upgrade your complete DVD catalog to 4k if and when 4k projectors become available?

Or is the idea to try and stream 4k content from Netflix, etc.? If you try to stream, how fast does your WiFi need to be?

I know 4k is the future, but we don't even have live TV in 1080p yet so 4k broadcast content on the networks and cable seems like it will never happen.
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post #65 of 3508 Old 06-24-2016, 08:15 AM
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Just out of curiosity, is everyone ready to upgrade your complete DVD catalog to 4k if and when 4k projectors become available?

Or is the idea to try and stream 4k content from Netflix, etc.? If you try to stream, how fast does your WiFi need to be?

I know 4k is the future, but we don't even have live TV in 1080p yet so 4k broadcast content on the networks and cable seems like it will never happen.
Certain select movies - yes. Lawrence of Arabia - sure. Rom coms like Bridesmaids - no. New blockbuster action movies going forward - yes. I'm guessing many catalog titles will either not be re - released in 4K, or will take years. I've seen some Blu Ray releases that barely looked better than the DVD. So, movies in my existing collection will be replaced with 4K versions only on a case by case basis.

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post #66 of 3508 Old 06-24-2016, 08:18 AM
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Certain select movies - yes. Lawrence of Arabia - sure. Rom coms like Bridesmaids - no. New blockbuster action movies going forward - yes. I'm guessing many catalog titles will either not be re - released in 4K, or will take years. I've seen some Blu Ray releases that barely looked better than the DVD. So, movies in my existing collection will be replaced with 4K versions only on a case by case basis.
I agree! Thats why I'm not ready to invest in the new 4k projectors just yet. It feels like Blu-ray/1080 will be around for a long time so why pay so much more for a 1st gen 4k projector when I can get a high quality 1080 projector for 1/2 the price (if not lower).

If 4k takes off, it wont be for at least 4-5 years so why buy a 4k PJ now?
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post #67 of 3508 Old 06-24-2016, 08:26 AM
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post #68 of 3508 Old 06-24-2016, 08:47 AM
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I think we can all agree that 4k is coming, but I guess I don't understand why I should buy the 5040 for $3k when I can get the 5030 for $1699?

The 4k picture is absolutely stunning, but I dont plan to buy 4k DVDs and streaming content is very limited.

Am I missing something?
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post #69 of 3508 Old 06-24-2016, 09:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Krob3 View Post
Just out of curiosity, is everyone ready to upgrade your complete DVD catalog to 4k if and when 4k projectors become available?

Or is the idea to try and stream 4k content from Netflix, etc.? If you try to stream, how fast does your WiFi need to be?

I know 4k is the future, but we don't even have live TV in 1080p yet so 4k broadcast content on the networks and cable seems like it will never happen.
Good points. I've spent thousands to upgrade from DVD to Blu-ray, now along comes 4K with talk of 8K on the horizon.

Everything in my system would need to be upgraded. Would need to purchase a true 4K projector, 4K capable AVR, 4K Blu-ray player and probably even the 40 foot HDMI cable I use for 1080p would need replacing. In addition if I were to stream 4K I would need to upgrade to a new streamer that handles the new format plus at least doubling my present internet speed from 15 Mbps to 30 Mbps.

There is not enough 4K material at this time to push me over to upgrading anything I own. I know the library will grow with time so there is no hurry on my part. If my 1080p projector went toes up tomorrow I would likely get another and wait for a true 4K projector.

However I do enjoy reading about the new technology coming out and look forward to seeing how the new e-shift 4K or 4K enhancement plays out.

I like that AVS has always had a plethora of first adopters, they pave the way to something better.
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post #70 of 3508 Old 06-24-2016, 09:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Krob3 View Post
I think we can all agree that 4k is coming, but I guess I don't understand why I should buy the 5040 for $3k when I can get the 5030 for $1699?

The 4k picture is absolutely stunning, but I dont plan to buy 4k DVDs and streaming content is very limited.

Am I missing something?
Yes, HDR support. Dunno how good it will be on the 5040UB, but for other projectors and for many TVs, people say it is the biggest improvement to display technology in years.
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post #71 of 3508 Old 06-24-2016, 09:30 AM
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Good points. I've spent thousands to upgrade from DVD to Blu-ray, now along comes 4K with talk of 8K on the horizon.

Everything in my system would need to be upgraded. Would need to purchase a true 4K projector, 4K capable AVR, 4K Blu-ray player and probably even the 40 foot HDMI cable I use for 1080p would need replacing. In addition if I were to stream 4K I would need to upgrade to a new streamer that handles the new format plus at least doubling my present internet speed from 15 Mbps to 30 Mbps.

There is not enough 4K material at this time to push me over to upgrading anything I own. I know the library will grow with time so there is no hurry on my part. If my 1080p projector went toes up tomorrow I would likely get another and wait for a true 4K projector.

However I do enjoy reading about the new technology coming out and look forward to seeing how the new e-shift 4K or 4K enhancement plays out.

I like that AVS has always had a plethora of first adopters, they pave the way to something better.
Agreed! I look forward to 4k in a few years and appreciate all the insights the folks on AV forums provide!
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post #72 of 3508 Old 06-24-2016, 11:07 AM
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Yes, HDR support. Dunno how good it will be on the 5040UB, but for other projectors and for many TVs, people say it is the biggest improvement to display technology in years.
This is the big one. It is something you will be able to notice regardless of screen size or seating distance (if implemented correctly.)

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I think we can all agree that 4k is coming, but I guess I don't understand why I should buy the 5040 for $3k when I can get the 5030 for $1699?

The 4k picture is absolutely stunning, but I dont plan to buy 4k DVDs and streaming content is very limited.

Am I missing something?
I agree with some of this sentiment. I've been slowly packing up my current house. I've boxed up all of my DVDs and Blu Ray discs (and most of the Xbox 360, Wii, PS3, Xbox One, and Xbox games.) One thing I noticed is that the sheer number of titles of owned DVDs was easily a large multiple of owned Blu Ray discs. The only thing I can attribute this to is the greater proliferation of streamed HD titles through Netflix, VUDU, Amazon, etc. Sometimes, I can hear audio compression artifacts through streaming, but the video is not too bad as long as my internet speed is consistent. I know the quality is not as good as an actual Blu Ray disc (and there is a complete lack of 3D availability through this medium,) but for most movies, it has been completely acceptable. There are only a few movies I repurchased from VHS to DVD or DVD to Blu Ray over the years, and I expect that as 4k streaming becomes more readily available (assuming support for latest audio codecs,) I would purchase even fewer 4k Blu Ray discs. Of course, that is also assuming 4k rental is available for those movies that deserve to be seen in all of their higher resolution glory.

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I agree! Thats why I'm not ready to invest in the new 4k projectors just yet. It feels like Blu-ray/1080 will be around for a long time so why pay so much more for a 1st gen 4k projector when I can get a high quality 1080 projector for 1/2 the price (if not lower).

If 4k takes off, it wont be for at least 4-5 years so why buy a 4k PJ now?
True 4k resolution will allow/require for shorter optimal viewing distances in order to take advantage of the higher resloution. It may allow for another row in a theater for some without sacrificing image quality. Hopefully, the epson solution works the same way. Lots of variables in that scenario though.

I don't like to upgrade every 4-5 years on pretty much anything (except my cell phone for some reason, but even that is every 3-4 years). My current main TV is 8 years old, and I had a large CRT before that. My AVR and speakers will be 6 years old at the end of the year. I try to get the best possible item for my situation in my budget at the time I want to upgrade. I haven't ruled out a 1080p projector (especially for a $700 - $1000 premium for these new Epson 4k projectors,) but I don't want to feel a need to upgrade within a couple of years. Plus, it was already hard enough to convince my wife that we needed a space for a home theater that was not an open space while looking for a new home.

This brings me to another question though. Because these display panels are native 1080p, will the upscaling of 480p (DVDs and Wii) look about the same as a current 1080p projector (5030UB?)
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post #73 of 3508 Old 06-24-2016, 11:28 AM - Thread Starter
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I don't like to upgrade every 4-5 years on pretty much anything (except my cell phone for some reason, but even that is every 3-4 years). My current main TV is 8 years old, and I had a large CRT before that. My AVR and speakers will be 6 years old at the end of the year. I try to get the best possible item for my situation in my budget at the time I want to upgrade. I haven't ruled out a 1080p projector (especially for a $700 - $1000 premium for these new Epson 4k projectors,) but I don't want to feel a need to upgrade within a couple of years. Plus, it was already hard enough to convince my wife that we needed a space for a home theater that was not an open space while looking for a new home.
Heh. All of my TVs and my projector are still only 720p... even though I have an Atmos-endowed sound system.

I FINALLY updated my decade-old receivers this year, with last year's models at a discount, after they got full 4K support and Atmos in lower end and mid-range models. If you can believe it, I didn't even have TrueHD support until this year.

And I will FINALLY be updating my 9 year-old 720p projector this year, mainly because the bulb is on its last legs and I don't want to pay $300 for another one for an old projector... but I will be going with a 1080p Sony 45ES. I'm not going to bother waiting for the Epson 4K Enhanced model with HDR, mainly because it costs 50% more. Assuming my 45ES unit actually ever arrives - it was supposed to ship June 20 - I will have paid a little over US$1800 plus tax. I'm guessing I'll get it by early July... hopefully. For the Epson 5040UB, I'm guessing it would cost me $2700, but wouldn't ship until fall. The difference of US$900 + tax is not chump change, and it's worth a bit more today than yesterday too due to Brexit. Plus I worry about the fan and the annoyance factor of the iris, and how it interacts with HDR content.

However, if the Epson 5040UB were a few hundred dollars less, I might have cancelled my Sony 45ES order and waited until fall for the Epson reviews.
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post #74 of 3508 Old 06-24-2016, 11:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Krob3 View Post
I think we can all agree that 4k is coming, but I guess I don't understand why I should buy the 5040 for $3k when I can get the 5030 for $1699?

The 4k picture is absolutely stunning, but I dont plan to buy 4k DVDs and streaming content is very limited.

Am I missing something?
I agree with you. I was going to wait for the 5040, but if I can get a 45ES for almost half the price, if I can find a deal. Why not do that and wait for a $1500 4K projector next year? I thought buying equipment was supposed to be the fun part.
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post #75 of 3508 Old 06-24-2016, 11:32 PM
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The huge thing that most people aren't realizing with the 5040 is the motorized zoom and lens shift with presets. Now you can get a 2.35 screen and easily switch between 16:9 and 2.35. That is huge for that price range! I am just getting ready to start on my theater and I was sold on the 45es until the 5040 announcement. I wasn't even going to go 2.35, but now with this plans have changed for the better
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post #76 of 3508 Old 06-25-2016, 04:35 AM
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The huge thing that most people aren't realizing with the 5040 is the motorized zoom and lens shift with presets. Now you can get a 2.35 screen and easily switch between 16:9 and 2.35. That is huge for that price range! I am just getting ready to start on my theater and I was sold on the 45es until the 5040 announcement. I wasn't even going to go 2.35, but now with this plans have changed for the better
Without a lens, it has no real advantage.


I don't think it's as big of a deal as you think.
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post #77 of 3508 Old 06-25-2016, 08:23 AM
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I'm curious about the real-world difference between the 6040UB and the 4040UB. The $4000 vs. $2700 price difference is pretty vast, and I think the only real difference is the contrast ratio (I'm not sweating -200 lumens in my dedicated theater).

Manufacturer contrast ratios seem to be getting exponentially larger. Aside from the raw number, is there a big visible difference between "up to" 160,000:1, and 1,000,000:1?
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post #78 of 3508 Old 06-25-2016, 10:27 AM
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Without a lens, it has no real advantage.


I don't think it's as big of a deal as you think.
Why not be zoomed in for 16:9 and zoom out for 2.35? No need for a lens. That would get rid of the black bars and give you a proper sized picture for both. Lens shift allows for corrections if the projector isn't perfectly perpendicular.

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post #79 of 3508 Old 06-25-2016, 10:35 AM
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I'd much rather pick up a used 55ES than the whole "45ES vs 5040" Sure you'll have HDR and "4K" but it's the same if not worse than those entry-level BMWs pumping up fake high performance engine sounds through the speakers

Pony up an extra 1K and pick up an used 365ES if you want REAL 4K and REAL HDR. The pseudo stuff is sad.

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post #80 of 3508 Old 06-25-2016, 11:18 AM
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I'd much rather pick up a used 55ES than the whole "45ES vs 5040" Sure you'll have HDR and "4K" but it's the same if not worse than those entry-level BMWs pumping up fake high performance engine sounds through the speakers

Pony up an extra 1K and pick up an used 365ES if you want REAL 4K and REAL HDR. The pseudo stuff is sad.
It is better than 1080p, which is what we are comparing it to. And how is the 5040 not going to be "real HDR"? You are sounding like a Sony fan boi who can't admit the 5040 is likely going to be better than the 45es, but it should be for 50% more cost. Now is it worth the extra 50%? That is what we will have to find out.
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post #81 of 3508 Old 06-25-2016, 11:40 AM
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It is better than 1080p, which is what we are comparing it to. And how is the 5040 not going to be "real HDR"? You are sounding like a Sony fan boi who can't admit the 5040 is likely going to be better than the 45es, but it should be for 50% more cost. Now is it worth the extra 50%? That is what we will have to find out.
Yes and I would be concerned buying a used Sony projector:
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post #82 of 3508 Old 06-25-2016, 11:50 AM
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Pretty exciting to finally have a > $3k projector with 4k and HDR. I'm really looking forward to some reviews of this but after owning a 5030 there are a few things I hope they fixed or improved.

1. Better Lens, my 5030 was never as sharp as my JVC so that definitely needs to be upgraded to show off 4k.

2. Calibrated light output was way to low. For HDR that needs to be significantly higher than the 700 output the 5030 measures in at, it's soo important for HDR.

3. Measured native contrast improvement, not the artificial numbers Epson puts out or dynamic numbers because in HDR you run with that wide open anyways.

If Epson can hit 2 out of 3 I think we have a winner at this price point, too bad we have to wait for some reviews.

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post #84 of 3508 Old 06-25-2016, 12:22 PM
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It is better than 1080p, which is what we are comparing it to. And how is the 5040 not going to be "real HDR"? You are sounding like a Sony fan boi who can't admit the 5040 is likely going to be better than the 45es, but it should be for 50% more cost. Now is it worth the extra 50%? That is what we will have to find out.
HDR out of a 1080p sensor doesn't seem right to me so I called it fake. I'm not a Sony Fanboy because to my eyes the best TV out there now is an LG G6, the best projector for the money is a JVC, and I do not like Sony Audio but do like their mirrorless cameras vs a DSLR.

Having "2500 lumens" but then a calibrated picture comes down to 700-800 lumens seems rubbish to me. I'm going to follow this projector because I would love to be wrong but using words like "dramatic blacks" in their descriptions makes me think otherwise.

It better be better than the 45ES for 50% higher price. While I do like the 40/45ES for the money, I can't stand the picture without an iris.
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post #85 of 3508 Old 06-25-2016, 01:52 PM - Thread Starter
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HDR out of a 1080p sensor doesn't seem right to me so I called it fake.
HDR has nothing to do with resolution per se. While I'm not yet convinced the 5040UB will have great HDR, if such a beast existed, I'd take a high quality 1080p HDR panel over a low quality 4K HDR panel any day.

The question is if the 5040UB is a high quality HDR panel or a low quality HDR panel. I'm guessing at best middling for HDR since as mentioned the 5030UB's calibrated lumens are much lower than its paper specs, and I expect the 5040UB to be similar. But we won't know until the reviews come in.

Last edited by BuGsArEtAsTy; 06-25-2016 at 01:55 PM.
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post #86 of 3508 Old 06-25-2016, 04:56 PM
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Originally Posted by kevinlg View Post
HDR out of a 1080p sensor doesn't seem right to me so I called it fake.
How does HDR have anything at all to do with resolution? It is contrast ratio, not resolution. Please don't spread baseless "facts" around. New people might actually believe the false information.
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post #87 of 3508 Old 06-26-2016, 05:55 AM
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How does HDR have anything at all to do with resolution? It is contrast ratio, not resolution. Please don't spread baseless "facts" around. New people might actually believe the false information.
LCD contrast is crap though... How good are people expecting this to be?
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post #88 of 3508 Old 06-26-2016, 07:56 AM
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LCD contrast is crap though... How good are people expecting this to be?
I love all the speculation on this topic, but once the 5040 comes out for review, we should have a better indication of how well the HDR performs.
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post #89 of 3508 Old 06-26-2016, 08:20 PM
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My question is, my current setup runs over an HDMI extender using cat6. Will I be able to take advantage using that or am I SOL?
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post #90 of 3508 Old 06-26-2016, 08:39 PM
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So far their are no extenders capable of handling the full 18gbs. You can get 4K extenders that work now but if you want all the features like higher bit rates, wider color gamut and HDR than your Cat6 is not capable.
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