The X1 HYPE is out of Control - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 105 Old 04-16-2003, 01:51 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
xallax's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 62
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
It doesn't have enough resolution to display a DVD without cropping, the color wheel spins at 2x, its a native 4x3, and it doesn't even have a "real" component out. Its everything you don't want in a pj for HT, so why are people still buying them? The hype surrounding this projector is out of control.
xallax is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 105 Old 04-16-2003, 02:06 PM
Advanced Member
 
mpilon's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: the waterfront
Posts: 804
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Because you're so much smarter than all of us who have bought one. But then we've seen it, have you?

rather than jabbering at all of us, why not just declare yourself Emperor For Life, call it a day and take the blue pill.

300+ hours on the lamp, still stupid and blissfully happy,

-M.

P.S. you forgot to mention the X1 is only 800x600. don't slip up any more.

Experienced Novice
mpilon is offline  
post #3 of 105 Old 04-16-2003, 02:23 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Roto's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Seattle
Posts: 1,286
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Yeah it crops a whopping 30 lines :rolleyes:

They hype on it has been out of control both ways. Only a couple months ago all the talk was rainbows, rainbows, rainbows and you should be committed to the looney bin if you bought one. Now the price has gone down to about the same as the cheapest RPTVs they are apparently selling like hotcakes. At least now you're hearing from people who have actually seen it. I don't think starting a new X1 thread was the way to stop the hype machine. :D

BTW: 303 hours on my X1 as of last night, currently being used in the conference room upstairs. I will discuss my fee with my employer later ;)

-Rob
Roto is offline  
post #4 of 105 Old 04-16-2003, 02:40 PM
Senior Member
 
CineFreak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 431
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 11
xallax,
You really have to see one before you judge it, I've (physically) looked at many PJ's in that price range, and admittedly am not a PJ professional.
But having said that I do go by my eyes,,,,,and regardless of the pitfalls that you have declared,,,,I have to say that the X1 has the best (IMO) PQ of any of the others. But remember to each their own.

Now if you want to be fair, don't forget to slam the LCD PJ's in regards to
1/ Pixelation
2/ Screen Door
3/ Vertical Banding
4/ Dust Blobs
5/ Yadda, Yadda, Yadda ;)

Whoops, all of a sudden the X1 doesn't sound as bad as one makes it out to be.
Once you've demo'd various PJ's you'll see what you can live with and what you can't, upon that, your decision will be an "Educated" purchase.

Just my 2 cents; Jessica ;)

Whats a nice guy like you doing in a place like this?
CineFreak is offline  
post #5 of 105 Old 04-16-2003, 02:44 PM
AVS Special Member
 
mbaxter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,212
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
DVD's are 720x480. The horizontal pixels are not actually square, they are rectangular if I recall correctly. You need 854 square pixels to represent the 720 rectangular pixels of a DVD's horizontal resolution. Thus the square-pixel equivalent of DVD is 854x480. The X1 converts the 720x480 to 854x480, then chops off 54 pixels on the left and right, and 30 pixels from the top & bottom, to get to a properly proportioned 800x450 image. This is not as bad as it sounds, in fact it isn't even an issue. There are virtually no movies in 1.78 aspect ratio. Most movies are 2.35, some are 1.85. Who cares if black bars are cropped off the top & bottom, and who is going to notice 27 missing pixels on each side? I mean really.

I have viewed numerous movies on the X1 using HTPC (non-cropped) playback and using a standalone DVD player (cropped). I have never been able to perceive the cropping, even on 1.78 and 1.85 material.

Thus, for DVD playback the practical difference between an 800x600 projector and an 854x480 projector is nil. You're never going to notice the missing 54 side pixels and 30 top/bottom pixels. It's simply a non-issue.

Indeed, if you ask me, the real problem is that no matter what projector you use, the DVD's themselves just aren't a high enough resolution source for the gigantic images we're getting with our front projectors, be it an X1, Z1, HS10, etc. Eight years ago, I'm sure no one expected that mainstream consumers would be having 120" screens in their living rooms! Up-scaling has its limits when the source is 720x480. In terms of resolution, even the X1 is sufficient for DVD material. Soon it's going to get to the point where even the cheapest projectors have four times the pixels as the DVD's we're playing on them. That's the real problem and I'm not sure what the solution could be.
mbaxter is offline  
post #6 of 105 Old 04-16-2003, 02:52 PM
Member
 
mpinney's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Dublin, Ohio AT&T UVerse...
Posts: 49
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
One more reason to hate the Infocus X1....

The $100 Rebate check that I just got in the mail today. :)




BTW, What projector does the original poster (XALLAX)of this thread have?

Thanks,

Michael
Go Ohio State
HdColumbus.org - everything about the local HDTV scene in Columbus, Ohio
mpinney is offline  
post #7 of 105 Old 04-16-2003, 02:58 PM
Senior Member
 
Utopia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 389
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
X1=2x= RAINBOWS so buyer beware.

What ever you do don't but this projector with out seeing it first or you will probably find your self CRAZY over the rainbow. Should of gone fishing.

Other than that its like every other projector with certain pros and cons, depending on your idea on what is important and what is not. Excellent C/R, much better than LCD. I bet the blacks are real nice to.
Utopia is offline  
post #8 of 105 Old 04-16-2003, 03:00 PM
Senior Member
 
CineFreak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 431
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally posted by mpinney
One more reason to hate the Infocus X1....

The $100 Rebate check that I just got in the mail today. :)
You got yours before me,,,,:eek: what ever happened to "Ladies First", Ya beast. Heehee :p

Jessica :D

Whats a nice guy like you doing in a place like this?
CineFreak is offline  
post #9 of 105 Old 04-16-2003, 03:04 PM
Senior Member
 
patrick21's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: charlotte, NC
Posts: 302
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Now xallax, calm down. You must have gotten out of the wrong side of the bed this morning.

To me, and I bet the majority of X1 owners, all your points are worthless.

It is a $1,400 projector for crying out loud. The image from a DVD the X1 throws up is better than a $1,400 rear projection tv. AND the image is twice the size. Hmmm, same money, better picture, HUGE image, weighs 6 lbs,....No brainer. The X1 all the way.

Another thing, have you seen an X1 project a HD image? It is absolutely stunning. Compares very favorable to a $10,000 plasma I saw the other day. Factor in that the plasma costs over $8,500 more, and again, it is a no brainer. There is just not $8,500 worth of difference to someone who would consider an X1 rather than a $33,000 projector.

Maybe one day you can save up enough money so you too can buy an X1.

OR

IF you are a person that would spend over $10,000 on a 50 inch plasma, then why in the world are you badmouthing the X1?

I hope your tomorrow is better than today.

patrick
patrick21 is offline  
post #10 of 105 Old 04-16-2003, 03:15 PM
Senior Member
 
RyanJNielson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 380
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
One could just as easily post that "Rainbow Hype" is out of Control...
RyanJNielson is offline  
post #11 of 105 Old 04-16-2003, 03:16 PM
Senior Member
 
Mr Mago's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Canada's Wet Coast
Posts: 268
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I think if you do a search under Xallax you'll see he is just baiting you all. Don't bother responding and enjoy your X1's.
Mr Mago is offline  
post #12 of 105 Old 04-16-2003, 03:20 PM
Senior Member
 
piesek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 293
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Last time I checked X1 here in Canada was about $600 less than the next inexpensive projector Sanyo PLV-Z1 ( that's around $400 USD)
And the PQ is soooo much better. I think it's not the hype - X1 is simply the best thing that could've happened to "regular " people that want the "high end" image once reserved for the rich.
X1 ROX!!!
piesek
piesek is offline  
post #13 of 105 Old 04-16-2003, 03:28 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Roto's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Seattle
Posts: 1,286
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally posted by Mr Mago
I think if you do a search under Xallax you'll see he is just baiting you all. Don't bother responding and enjoy your X1's.
I happened to do just that. It appears Xallax had tried an X1, returned it and got a Sanyo PLV-Z1 instead. I guess he wants to hear more Z1 talk, which I have noticed there isn't much of lately considering it's similar in price and picture quality to the X1. I think it's probably just because the X1 is more readily available since it's being sold in online computer stores for business presentations. That's how I bought mine anyway. I was able to get it 2 days after my order was placed through my work's corporate account. Today happened to be the first day it was actually used for a presentation after 3 and a half months.

So I guess Xallax's real question is where is the Z1 Hype?

-Rob
Roto is offline  
post #14 of 105 Old 04-16-2003, 06:29 PM
AVS Special Member
 
rlindo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: ON, Canada
Posts: 4,732
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 91 Post(s)
Liked: 129
Quote:
Originally posted by piesek
Last time I checked X1 here in Canada was about $600 less than the next inexpensive projector Sanyo PLV-Z1 ( that's around $400 USD)
And the PQ is soooo much better. I think it's not the hype - X1 is simply the best thing that could've happened to "regular " people that want the "high end" image once reserved for the rich.
X1 ROX!!!
piesek
I highly doubt the x1 PQ is sooo much better than the Z1. Really, I will put my life on the line that your statement is pure BS.

ROB
rlindo is offline  
post #15 of 105 Old 04-16-2003, 06:49 PM
Senior Member
 
bholio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: USA
Posts: 450
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
The cropping issue is totally bogus. When I first got my X1, I was watching a DVD on the X1 and on my 41" Sony RPTV. When I started looking closely, I found the X1 showed more width than the Sony.

The reason was the RPTV has one of those add-on screen protectors (it's 7 years old), and the little brackets on the sides ended up cropping the image more than the X1 did.

Rainbows are there, I see them a little. So far no one else who has seen my X1 has mentioned them. Be sure you can return it if you get one without trying it out first. I've seen prices far below the $1400 (US) quoted above after rebate in the last week or so. (I don't remember where).

The hype on this is the price/performance. Not just performance. I feel it is justified, considering the picture quality, size and price as compared to RPTV.
bholio is offline  
post #16 of 105 Old 04-16-2003, 07:27 PM
AVS Special Member
 
JPinTO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Toronto
Posts: 2,383
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
The X1 is the worst projector I've never seen!

(For the humorly impaired---- :sarcasticon:)

- JP in TOronto
JPinTO is offline  
post #17 of 105 Old 04-16-2003, 08:12 PM
Senior Member
 
memobug's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Silicon Valley, CA
Posts: 315
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally posted by mpinney
One more reason to hate the Infocus X1....

The $100 Rebate check that I just got in the mail today.
My X1 rebate arrived in the mail today, too. I've got another $100 coming in exchange for some ratty LCD panel I shipped in on the Infocus Tradeup program.

Regards,

Matt
memobug is offline  
post #18 of 105 Old 04-16-2003, 09:58 PM
Member
 
trentR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Silicon Valley, CA
Posts: 118
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
let's see why i bought the X1 compared to the other projectors:

1) $1275 - $100 rebate = $1175 shipped
2) 3000 hour lamp
3) 5 year warranty
4) mandarax's excellent mount

the projector is actually cheaper than my 32" tv!!

trent
trentR is offline  
post #19 of 105 Old 04-16-2003, 10:17 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
MississippiMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Byhalia, Mississippi. Waaaay down in the Bottoms
Posts: 14,658
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 51 Post(s)
Liked: 206
My Goodness, such a hotbed!

I've almost completed a HT with a X1 that shoots a 102' diagonal image onto the wall. (painted...natch.) The original plans were for no larger than a 88" image at 800x600 native to assure "myself' that I would not be compromising "my" standards; standards acquired by installing 20-HDs, a slightly more expensive PJ that the X1. 1100 Lumens scared the heck out of me because I wanted to maintain my Painted Screen ethic. 2000:1 Contrast ratio tickeld the heck out of me, promising a much lighter hue of paint. 3000 hours on a Bulb, and guarrenteed upgradability, AND 2 extra years warrantee free, AND 100.00 rebate, well....I thought thoughts usually reserved for private moments. Warm and Fuzzy comes to mind.

But still I was skeptical enough to worry. I fired up the PJ and centered the image on my screen's perimeters. Closed the Drapes. Put a 480i signal from a lowly Sony DVD into the Component / S-Video Breakout and let the Farouda take charge.

wow. (...no hype there...)

At 13' back, the image was virtually flawless and in league with PJs costing 3X it's price. And soooooo much bigger than even a Mitsubishi 73" er For $1450.00 it was Stupendous, and a sheer delight to watch, and to start to consider all the ordinary people who now had the chance to join in on our parade. Hey! I could make some money, and make some ordinary folks estatic at the same time.

Ahhhh...., but there are those out there who are resentful that such joy could come so easy to so many, and so affordably, after their own sacrifices. (..spent too much...) Come on, we all know that's a big reason for all the venom. Others cannot fathom the mysteries that lay at the root cause of why a company would market such a product with broad appeal. So they must trash it, and condem it for it's few flaws instead of examining it's virtues also.

Rainbows.

Some of the most stanchest distractors of affordable Video say that 1 in 3 people will see rainbow effect.
Even with a 2 speed color wheel, I take serious issue with the 1 in 3 statistic. Many variables go into making Rainbows become visable. Color wheel speed, program content, Luminosity, Picture size, the quality and frequency of the scanning used. Take the current install for instance. I see the effect because I'm a little defective myself.....vision wise. But with one eye closed, it's gone completely. Yeah, I know you can't ask a guest to make like Popeye, but so far, even with my having made issue about rainbows with the Client both before and after their current size image installation, neither he or any of the over 10 people or so that have watched a DVD presentation has remarked about it. There goes that 1 in 3 statistic. To quote a recent Post on this Thread..."Wadday want fer nuthin'? Apparently to some, no chance of seeing a Rainbow, period. The Z1 (SE Matinee HD) can deliver that desire. But only at 700 Lumens & 900:1 contrast ratio, it's " Kiss you Sister" time in my book, and I sell the darn things.

The Rainbow issue chafes some people so much they feel compelled to press thier disgruntlement on everybody. But hey, SDE (screen door effect) creates the same, if not an even worse reaction. It's almost funny, 'cept is really kinda sad that some folks can only focus (...a pun?) on a specific PJ's weaknesses instead of it's strong points. You'll find just as many people out there who state that having NO SDE is much better than seeing an occasional band of color flash before them, and a bunch that will say they don't mind a dimmer image as long as they have deep contrast levels. These are the DLP advocates, and they are Legion. But try telling that to a Panny 400Q owner and he'll spit in your one good eye.

Straight talk....ya can't pay pennies for a PJ and get the same performance out of it as one that cost dollars. Expectations must come into line with budgetary restraints. Yes, I know that's not in keeping with the idea of getting something for almost nothing, but lemme tell you, paying $1500.00 for a 90" diagonal picture comes pretty darn close.

So what to do, all you fence sitters? First, decide just how "entry level" you want to be, and dismiss the naysayers. Be happy with the choice you make based on your own knowledge of what you expect and don't expect, and your budget restraints. And give every guest a Eye Patch.

Back to the SDE issue, and the Z1. Guess what? If you push an image by a LCD, even a pricey one, any bigger than 92" and sit closer than 8' to 10', you'll have some ingrate remark about the grid of little squares he can see. Why? because some people have eyes (...and brains)that are just better wired than others. Or are more deficent than others. The Moral? Please yourself, not others. If someone critizises your Theater's set up, don't invite them back. Buy what you can afford, or spend more than you planned to get the security of knowing you won't suffer the barbs coming from "friends" that probably don't even have a system 1/10th as nice as yours.

The X1 can deliver great results for less. period. Maybe not the best results, but with 1080i it's breathtaking. Why do I degress? Because when the Client first saw my raw 800X600 Native resolution image, he asked me oh, so sweetly , to keep it a Native but move the Ceiling mount back another 3' to 15' from the wall Screen. Oh boy. Now what. I reluctantly complied and BAM! A near perfect 88' Native image. No Zoom.
I just had to do it. I brought the Zoom to full out. Big Badda Boom!!!
A 102" diagonal image that at 14' sitting distance was EVERY BIT AS GOOD AS A 20-HD....with far better contrast. Ulp. And for $3K+ less

Heresy! Blasphemy! Witch craft! Naw...just a great deal of entertainment value for the money spent. Nothing like it. I'll never build in another huge RPTV to create a "flat wall screen" look if light can be controlled.

Yes, without 2200 lumens, some of the splended detail I was used to at 100+" was missing. Yes, to get a truely good image, ambient light had to be down to - 90%. And YES.....If i moved my head side to side, glanced sideways, and stood up and walked around, the old rainbows came dancing along. But no one, I mean no one else has commented about them, and the Client thinks I'm an a miracle worker.

Yeah, it's a long reply but i've been absent for a spell.

Got a ticket Toronto to attend the Great Canuck PJ Shootout, (...se Mandarax's thread) and the X1 will get plenty of scrutiny. But so will about 11 other $5000.00 and under PJs as well. But wouldn't you know it, the X1 will have few peers with comparable specs at it's price point to compare with. go figure.
LL

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"
MississippiMan is offline  
post #20 of 105 Old 04-16-2003, 11:32 PM
Senior Member
 
xorbe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Mt View, CA
Posts: 235
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally posted by MississippiMan
Attachment: ht furniture & screen.jpg
This has been downloaded 9 time(s).
Is that a window? It's really bright outside! :D
xorbe is offline  
post #21 of 105 Old 04-17-2003, 03:22 AM
Senior Member
 
memobug's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Silicon Valley, CA
Posts: 315
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I'm enjoying my X1 too, but a couple questions on your review:

Quote:
Originally posted by MississippiMan
[b]1100 Lumens scared the heck out of me....2000:1 Contrast ratio tickeld the heck out of me
Aren't those specs for Presentation mode? So you'd have much less intensity ...700 lumens? and therefore less contrast in Film or video, right?? The same linked review measured actual 1200:1 contrast in Presentation, and suspected less in Video/Film
Quote:
The Z1 (SE Matinee HD)...only at 700 Lumens & 900:1 contrast ratio, it's " Kiss you Sister" time in my book, and I sell the darn things.
That seems to me to be almost exactly what I'd expect to get out of X1 in film or Video mode!

Regards,

Matt
memobug is offline  
post #22 of 105 Old 04-17-2003, 04:20 AM
AVS Club Gold
 
MississippiMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Byhalia, Mississippi. Waaaay down in the Bottoms
Posts: 14,658
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 51 Post(s)
Liked: 206
I posted that shot to show how small (83" diagional) I was going to keep the screen area to assure a decent picture. Things have changed as my next pic posted will show from the same vantage point. This time also with a image. Smoothed out the expanded perimeter yesterday, will paint in the bigger area today out to 102" Plant a seed, watch it grow.

Stay tuned, coming soon to a Theater near you. (...this PM)

(It DOES look like a window, doesn't it?)

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"
MississippiMan is offline  
post #23 of 105 Old 04-17-2003, 05:02 AM
Advanced Member
 
pcostanz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Posts: 508
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Compared to my Davis SVGA DLS8 DLP that died, the X1:

Is brighter
Much more colorful, the red's and blues really kick!
Much better contrast. the image is much more vibrant.
Black level, I think is about the same, which is pretty good. Only watched 1 movie on is so far though.
Best of all, I got it for 1249.00 shipped! I have a 100.00 rebate coming and get and extended 5yr total warranty. You can beat that with any size stick.

All Hype the X1... All Hype the X1.... All Hype the X1....

<g>

BTW, rainbows, yes they're there. As a matter of fact, when I first turned it on they were really bad, but then I set the refresh from 75hz to 60 and put the proj in film mode and things were way better.

I find rainbows in the same category as apeture grill wires found in CRT monitors. Yeah they're their, but when you actually use the monitor for more than 5 minutes, you can't hardly notice them, if ever. I have one a work and notice them when I first got the monitor, but never notice them since.

-Peter
pcostanz is offline  
post #24 of 105 Old 04-17-2003, 07:04 AM
Member
 
Jackman11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 126
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally posted by pcostanz
BTW, rainbows, yes they're there. As a matter of fact, when I first turned it on they were really bad, but then I set the refresh from 75hz to 60 and put the proj in film mode and things were way better
Where do you set the refresh rate?

ALSO, about the "hype". I agree that the image for the price is amazing. BUT if I had the money I would definitely upgrade. IT IS NOT the same as some of the more expensive pjs.

FIRST, resolution. I sent my Z1 back because of the screen door. This bugs me the most. The X1 is much better but occasionally I still see it on certain scenes and if I sit closer that 14 Feet on a 90inch wide screen. When I go see something like the Z1000 in the local store, you just don't see the grid at all!.. So since I'm very sensitive to noticing screendoor and it distracts from viewing pleasure, I will upgrade whenever prices drop for higher resolution.

SECOND, rainbows. Yes, see them occasionally. Sometimes annoying. THE worst is in the THX Optimizer on Star Wars DVD when you get that circle on a black background. I can't even look at that screen... it hurts. AND again, the Z1000, with its 5x colorwheel, it was impossible for me to see any.

THIRD, aspect ratio. Since I'm realizing I'm only using this to watch movies, I think I'd would prefer a 16x9 panel. Not a big deal but that's what i'd get next.

LAST, inputs. ok, I HATE that there is NO COMPONENT connection. For interlaced you have to use a supplied adapter to Svideo and for progessive signal you have to get ANOTHER adapter that is neither SUPPLIED nor AVAILABLE to connect to VGA port. (infocus is out of stock on these adapters and everywhere else they are 3 times as expensive) This is most annoying to me. Next projector I get will have all inputs without having to use any adapters.

So for me, the hype is about just right. All of the above were well documented in previous threads as well as the great picture quality. EVERYONE who has come to see it has loved it, has been wowed, and several are getting there own. One guy who doesn't even own a TV (artist type) is getting one to watch films and create digital art with.

I now even watch movies I didn't like (attack of clones) because the images look SO AMAZING on my wall. I was well prepared for the previously mentioned drawbacks, I wasn't prepared for how rich the image is. It was MUCH BETTER than I expected, even with the hype.
Jackman11 is offline  
post #25 of 105 Old 04-17-2003, 08:16 AM
Senior Member
 
piesek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 293
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally posted by rlindo
I highly doubt the x1 PQ is sooo much better than the Z1. Really, I will put my life on the line that your statement is pure BS.
Let me see:
Last time I checked
-X1 had little screendoor - Z1 had lots of screendoor, and
-X1 had no vertical banding problem- Z1 had vertical banding problem and
-X1 had no motion artifacts or jagged edges- Z1 had motion artifacts and jagged edges
-X1 nadbetter blacks - Z1 had poorer blacks and
-X1 had better contrast - Z1 had less contrast and
-X1 had Faroudja chip - Z1 didn't have a Faroudja chip
And there was more to it than picture quality, but I didn't wan't to repeat the obvious, such as:
-X1 didn't have dust blobs - Z1 had dust blobs
-X1 didn't stink like burned plastic when turned on - Z1 did
-X1 was cheaper - Z1 was more expensive
-X1 came with 5 years warranty -Z1-didn't
-X1 had$100 mail in rebate - Z1 didn't
This makes X1 SOOO much better in my books.
And if you doubt it, look at them BOTH - and do it before you put your life on the line.
piesek
piesek is offline  
post #26 of 105 Old 04-17-2003, 09:12 AM
Advanced Member
 
pcostanz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Posts: 508
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Refresh Rate - this was set as part of my HTPC, sorry for the confusion. What's amazing is that so many people are using the X1 with a standard DVD/ or progressive DVD player. I haven't tried it, but previous gen's of cheap projectors mandated that you use an HTPC because of the crap quality of the other inputs and poor scaling. I hope to try standard cable on the X1 and see how good that is.

-Peter
pcostanz is offline  
post #27 of 105 Old 04-17-2003, 10:06 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
xallax's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 62
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
All these posts only tell me one thing - We need an X1 Forum, so you can all pat yourselves on the back.

Unfortunately, when the X2 comes out in 6 months with a higher rez (that doesn't crop DVD's), you are all going to be pissed you went with 800x600.

Another thing- enjoy your $100 rebates (thats to take the STING off when the X2 arrives).

For those of you who didn't drink the X1 Kool-Aid - There are other pj's (really!) of better quality at the $1500 price mark.
xallax is offline  
post #28 of 105 Old 04-17-2003, 10:13 AM
Member
 
mrad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Seattle
Posts: 149
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
piesek, have you actually SEEN an X1 and a Z1 side-by-side or are you just an armchair reviewer?

I have and, quite frankly the difference in PQ is not as big (IMHO) as you imply.

There is also a great (v. long) thread by flooper who actually bought BOTH of the projectors and came to the conclusion that their PQ was comparable.

In response:

Of the Z1's I have seen (shootout and my own Z1):

- Screendoor - Z1 yes, but a slight defocus works dandy for me
- Rainbows - Z1 no, the X1 has them to the point of distraction for me
- Eye fatigue - Z1 no (I've had 12 hour marathon sessions and no fatigue), X1 yes within 30 minutes (for me)
- Cropping - Z1 no, X1 yes - it crops a DVD in 16:9 mode
- 16:9 - Z1 yes, X1 no - this is important to me as I watch mostly 16:9
- Stink - Z1 yes, but goes away after 10 hours
- Brightness - Z1 is brighter in 16:9 than the X1 because a lot of light is lost in the X1's horizontal black bars (in its 4:3 picture) and you need to drop the X1 into Film mode.
- Contrast - X1 wins there, but the difference isn't as great as you'd imagine
- Warranty - The Z1's 3 year is more than enough for me, because that's when I'll be upgrading to a new projector (today's bargain projectors will be dinosaurs by then).
- Price - The Z1 can also be had at discount for $200 more than the X1.
- Dust blobs - Yup, the Z1 gets those occasionally (though rumors ar eflying that the latest Z1's have a gasket modification to stop this). Easy to clean if you can use a screwdriver and a can of compressed air.

Personally, I don't shop purely by "specs". I read up voraciously on this website for 2 months (including projectors all the way up to $6000) before narrowing down to 3 choices: Z1, X1 and AE-300. Then I went and saw them.

The Z1 blew me away. The AE-300 didn't. The X1 kinda blew me away. I chose the Z1.

You may choose the X1 based on specs (unless I read your post wrong and you have already seen all these projectors), but that's your perogative.

Gawd, I need to stop hanging out here and watch more movies on my Z1 (Netflix 5-disc account, here!)
mrad is offline  
post #29 of 105 Old 04-17-2003, 10:43 AM
AVS Special Member
 
mbaxter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,212
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally posted by xallax
All these posts only tell me one thing - We need an X1 Forum, so you can all pat yourselves on the back.

Unfortunately, when the X2 comes out in 6 months with a higher rez (that doesn't crop DVD's), you are all going to be pissed you went with 800x600.

Another thing- enjoy your $100 rebates (thats to take the STING off when the X2 arrives).

For those of you who didn't drink the X1 Kool-Aid - There are other pj's (really!) of better quality at the $1500 price mark.
LOL this is true! I ain't gonna lie: if Infocus releases a native widescreen version of the X1 in a few months, with no rainbows at the $1250 price point (what I paid for my X1), then yes, I'm going to be a little irritated. :)

But that could be many months away, and we have no guarantee this will even happen. Infocus may decide to keep their native widescreen models in the high end price range. They may continue to stick with 4:3 projectors for the low end HT/business presentation market. Hard to say.

For now, I'm happy. I got a fantastic bang for my buck, and was able to splurge on a great screen and sound system with the savings. And thanks to the 5-year warranty coverage, when I do feel compelled to sell my X1 on eBay, I'll be able to get a decent price for it.
mbaxter is offline  
post #30 of 105 Old 04-17-2003, 11:10 AM
Senior Member
 
piesek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 293
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally posted by mrad
piesek, have you actually SEEN an X1 and a Z1 side-by-side or are you just an armchair reviewer?

I have and, quite frankly the difference in PQ is not as big (IMHO) as you imply.
I saw them both. I have to admit though, that it wasn't a side-by -side comparison. I saw the Z1 first and I liked it very much. I think it is a great PJ but I had doubts about buying it. Than I saw the X1 and after using it for a couple of days I ordered it.
I agree 100% that you shouldn't buy a projector based on specs alone.
In fact Z1 seems to look better on paper. But to my surprise X1 looked better in real life. I guess it is relative and subjective how much better it looked, but the difference was big enough to help me part with my money.
My post is not to bash the Z1 - but to disagree that the X1 phenomena is based purely on hype. It is an excellent projector that can be had for a breaktrough price.
BTW, does any X1 owners know what the service menu code for X1 is? Not that I could find. Perhaps its because nobody really needs it. And from the posts I found on this forum it seems like Z1 owners spend more time working through their factory and service menus than watching movies.
piesek
piesek is offline  
Closed Thread Digital Projectors - Under $3,000 USD MSRP

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off