Celluon PicoBit Laser projector - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 110 Old 11-23-2016, 11:00 AM - Thread Starter
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Celluon PicoBit Laser projector

Anyone springing for the new Celluon laser projector?
http://www.celluon.com/picobit/


55 lumens / 80,000:1 contrast this round and they've moved the emitter to
the short end like the sony versions. Also has android os, usb-c for charging and
the entire top side is a touchpad. No photos of the bottom but in an interview
they stated it would have a threaded mount.

I pre-ordered one today (releases Dec 15th)

I'm satisfied with the PicoPro I've had for nearly 2 years now
in a blacked out bedroom, but brighter is a welcome improvement.

Last edited by rexdigital; 11-23-2016 at 11:03 AM.
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post #2 of 110 Old 11-23-2016, 05:58 PM
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No way. Only one experienced HT enthusiast has touched one and he said the contrast was deplorable.

If it had a measured 80k:1 CR I'd play with it. Also, it's 720p signal only?
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post #3 of 110 Old 11-24-2016, 02:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Verge2 View Post
No way. Only one experienced HT enthusiast has touched one and he said the contrast was deplorable.
If it had a measured 80k:1 CR I'd play with it. Also, it's 720p signal only?
Both Art/PJR and ProjectorCentral have professionally reviewed the Celluon/Sony first-gen laser model.

In a lit room the contrast is naturally terrible. In a blacked-out room the Celluon/SonyMPCL1 measures roughly 30,000:1 native contrast with a low APL pattern (better for testing native contrast than full black/white fields). This is a far cry from its claimed 80,000:1, but still a fantastic result for any display let alone something under $3000.

I agree with wanting more brightness (along with a few other things), but contrast is something these pure laser units have always had in spades. They have higher native contrast than most <$2000 models' dynamic contrast.
Art/PJR was badly inaccurate regarding his contrast assessment of the laser model (I believe he had the Sony instead of the Celluon).
Quote:
Originally Posted by rexdigital View Post
Anyone springing for the new Celluon laser projector?
http://www.celluon.com/picobit/
55 lumens / 80,000:1 contrast this round and they've moved the emitter to
the short end like the sony versions. Also has android os, usb-c for charging and
the entire top side is a touchpad. No photos of the bottom but in an interview
they stated it would have a threaded mount.

I pre-ordered one today (releases Dec 15th)

I'm satisfied with the PicoPro I've had for nearly 2 years now
in a blacked out bedroom, but brighter is a welcome improvement.
I'm glad to hear your original Celluon is still alive and kicking (my Sony variant had issues after a month or two, but I finally sent it in for replacement under warranty).
Do you happen to know what your original was claiming for brightness and how significant this increase should be?

I want to say they were claiming either 30lm or 35lm measured along with the statement that it LOOKS more like 50-60lm to the eye..(a statement that I've confirmed at least for myself with side-by-side comparison with a 100lm-measured model filling an image-area of nearly double the square-footage).
If the 55lm model looks like 110lm+ to the eye, I think I'd like one too!



For those unaware, the laser-light from these projectors doesn't simply look brighter than it measures because of an optical illusion..it IS brighter than typical measurement devices detect because they measure light in a somewhat limited way that doesn't accurately collect the laser illumination.
Think of it as similar to how certain calibration equipment must be redesigned to properly read OLED display primaries..the current tools aren't very good at reading this specific form of light.

I understand most folks won't be too excited whether it's 100-110lm or 55lm as both are quite low, but a uniform, high-contrast, full color-brightness image of about 4ftL looks very good to me in the blackroom..so this sounds great to me personally.
For those waiting for more reasonable brightness, this could be considered at least a step in the right direction for future models.

EDIT: they finally added a cardslot/memory-device for playback! This was one of the only portable/pico projectors that previously didn't have a memory/media-player function which was really strange considering its particularly good batterylife and small size.
Will be interesting to see if anyone can confirm what its brightness truly looks like (55lm, 110, or 200lm). The previous models claimed ~2X, not 4X.

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415

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post #4 of 110 Old 11-24-2016, 04:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ftoast View Post
Art/PJR was badly inaccurate regarding his contrast assessment of the laser model (I believe he had the Sony instead of the Celluon).
.
LOL

Like I said, one HT person has reviewed one, and the contrast is pitiful. Of course you can just discredit him lol
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post #5 of 110 Old 11-24-2016, 10:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Verge2 View Post
LOL

Like I said, one HT person has reviewed one, and the contrast is pitiful. Of course you can just discredit him lol
You mean the HT reviewer who has DLPs "calibrated" with BrilliantColor/white-segments at maximum for home theater (not office) use? :P

Unless you don't count ProjectorCentral, two different professional HT reviewers have reviewed the Celluon or its twin. I don't remember PJC saying the contrast was awful.

I'm really not sure how Art managed to mess that bit up, but I'd bet it's brightness/room related. It's not a small difference..it's easily a 5X higher native contrast than anything else under $2500-$3000!

I realize I'm going total fanatic about this, but native-contrast is seriously and obviously this tech's forte.

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415
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post #6 of 110 Old 11-24-2016, 02:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ftoast View Post
You mean the HT reviewer who has DLPs "calibrated" with BrilliantColor/white-segments at maximum for home theater (not office) use? :P

Unless you don't count ProjectorCentral, two different professional HT reviewers have reviewed the Celluon or its twin. I don't remember PJC saying the contrast was awful.

I'm really not sure how Art managed to mess that bit up, but I'd bet it's brightness/room related. It's not a small difference..it's easily a 5X higher native contrast than anything else under $2500-$3000!

I realize I'm going total fanatic about this, but native-contrast is seriously and obviously this tech's forte.
I can't argue this one very well, as I haven't seen one. I was somewhat intrigued about these, if they were actually pushing 80k native with laser scanning, it would be like one of my old crts 1/100th the size. Wifi has for novelty sake, worth it. You can see the sonys going on eBay for very cheap.
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post #7 of 110 Old 11-25-2016, 06:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Verge2 View Post
I can't argue this one very well, as I haven't seen one. I was somewhat intrigued about these, if they were actually pushing 80k native with laser scanning, it would be like one of my old crts 1/100th the size. Wifi has for novelty sake, worth it. You can see the sonys going on eBay for very cheap.
They can get about half way to 80,000:1, but there were a lot of other issues and dumb design choices holding them back..many of which (possible threaded stand, full-size HDMI, internal media handling, fuller wireless support, supposely 4X brightness increase) look like they're being addressed to some extent..I hope.

The screen-mirroring/wireless that they advertised didn't originally work with a lot of devices (didn't originally work with apple at all and only worked with a limited amount of android and PC devices).
The manual was comically bad and forgot to mention an important troubleshoot that had several buyers thinking their device was DeadOnArrival or died after a period of non-use (a "safety" feature for preserving the battery during storage practically bricks the PJ until you press'n'hold the power button and plug it in, out, and back in again after the power-light flashes).
And if mine was anything to judge by, I'm betting a good number of the little things simply go crazy from time to time to watch their owner-monkeys pull out some hair.
Oh, and there's that strange-looking color glitching that happened with darker gradient areas in certain content..it's weird but easily repeatable, so I'm hoping Sony or Celluon figures out a good way to deal with that.

I'm not holding my breath that we'll see one of these hitting 800lm+ at 10%APL within the next few years, but I'd be super excited to see all of the stuff mentioned above taken care of.

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415
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post #8 of 110 Old 11-28-2016, 09:37 AM - Thread Starter
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"Do you happen to know what your original was claiming for brightness and how significant this increase should be?"

32 lumens on the picopro (Microvision claiming the perceived brightness is roughly equivalent to a 50- to 60-lumen measured brightness with standard projectors) and I could swear the original advertised spec was 100,000:1 contrast on the picopro, but their site is now showing it as 80,000:1. Maybe that was a goal prior to actual release.

55 lumens for the new picobit (The perceived brightness is about 200 lamp-based projector (DLP) lumen) according to Celluon. So a more than a 3x improvement if what they imply is actually accurate.


In my experience the Miracast was totally unusable. It would glitch with green blocky artifacts
and my samsung tablet was less than 3 feet away, but I never relied on that preferring the HDMI
input only which is rock solid reliable.

Speaking of which I don't know if they did it, but I told their techs it was a pain in the rump
to have to switch to hdmi every time it was powered up and and to please make it either default
to hdmi input or make a user setting where you could have it work that way. A lot of people
who bought the picopro echoed that sentiment.

It will be interesting to see if the blue issue has been addressed. That of having a bit too much
red in it. And hopefully skin tones are less yellowish....of course I'm not counting on any
of this but it would be nice to see.

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post #9 of 110 Old 11-30-2016, 10:24 AM
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Newbie here, so sorry if this question is answered elsewhere. I saw that the Sony equivalent has just come out about a couple weeks ago. Does the Sony use the same basic electronics as the Celluon? The Sony has keystone correction, and the previous Celluon does not. Is this an important item to have, and will the new Celluon this feature?


Does either the Sony or Celluon have fans? Are they at all obtrusive?


How are these little units in displaying text? I want to project PDF's on a wall (or screen).


What is the largest display for these that are decent?
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post #10 of 110 Old 11-30-2016, 11:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Hendrix View Post
Newbie here, so sorry if this question is answered elsewhere. I saw that the Sony equivalent has just come out about a couple weeks ago. Does the Sony use the same basic electronics as the Celluon? The Sony has keystone correction, and the previous Celluon does not. Is this an important item to have, and will the new Celluon this feature?


Does either the Sony or Celluon have fans? Are they at all obtrusive?


How are these little units in displaying text? I want to project PDF's on a wall (or screen).


What is the largest display for these that are decent?
Text would be great if you rotate 90 degrees.

With only 720p, prob not so great the other way.
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post #11 of 110 Old 11-30-2016, 02:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Fine text could be a problem. You can barely read fine print on tv commercials it's so crunchy /aliased looking.

Yes the Sony MPCL1 which I'm pretty sure has been out for nearly a year now has keystone correction. The new picobit also has keystone correction. But anytime someone would try it out (on the sony) there was a visual loss of clarity...becoming a softer picture. I don't see much difference spec wise for the newer sony MPCL1-A beyond blue-tooth, usb storage and wireless / miracast.

PC magazine did a review of the Sony after the PicoPro and noted the PicoPro color reproduction
seemed more accurate.

The sony has a small fan, the pico pro does not...I'm hoping the picobit doesn't either but won't know until it arrives.

That is one VERY cool feature about the picopro being fanless. I had a cheapo 60 lumen 3m lcd projector that was quite noisy during operation. The lack of fan noise alone is awesome.

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post #12 of 110 Old 11-30-2016, 04:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rexdigital View Post
The sony has a small fan, the pico pro does not...I'm hoping the picobit doesn't either but won't know until it arrives.
That is one VERY cool feature about the picopro being fanless. I had a cheapo 60 lumen 3m lcd projector that was quite noisy during operation. The lack of fan noise alone is awesome.
I heard there were problems with the original PicoPro overheating during longer use, but that might've been from folks who blocked a passive port (although I didn't think the PicoPro had any ports, did it?).

I've run my Sony for a couple really long Netflix marathons without any overheating problems, and the Sony's fan is practically silent (until you find one with a bad ball-bearing).

The new Celluon appears to have a port near the tripot mount, so I'm guessing it has a fan to keep the brighter lasers cool. It very well might still run practically silent..nothing like the overheating laptop sound of many small LED projectors.

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415
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post #13 of 110 Old 11-30-2016, 04:43 PM - Thread Starter
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I had heard of some over heating as well from just a few users...mine never has. I've had it on, up to 4 hours at a time.
But i do have it on a clamp type phone mount so it's surrounded by air at all times.

Also I've never fully discharged the battery, it's always been fully charged and only runs with a/c adapter plugged in.

There was an engineering person that took one apart and said the heat sink body was inadequate and would shorten
the life of the laser system. I have had no problems though.

Also someone posted a shot I think it was on Amazon reviews of a bulging one with a bad battery..that was scary looking.


Where did you see the photo of the picobit mounting port and fan hole? I've been trying to find one
but failed.
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post #14 of 110 Old 12-01-2016, 07:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rexdigital View Post
I had heard of some over heating as well from just a few users...mine never has. I've had it on, up to 4 hours at a time.
But i do have it on a clamp type phone mount so it's surrounded by air at all times.

Also I've never fully discharged the battery, it's always been fully charged and only runs with a/c adapter plugged in.

Where did you see the photo of the picobit mounting port and fan hole? I've been trying to find one
but failed.
That's good to hear, especially with yours being plugged-in all the time it's getting used.

I found the picture on the Celluon website I believe. I'm a little scared about it because I didn't see the 55lumen/200lumen spec listed there anymore.. At least not wherever I was.
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Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415
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post #15 of 110 Old 12-01-2016, 09:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Specs are on this page:

http://www.celluon.com/picobit/

I didn't see that photo last week, but see it there now. Glad they are doing a proper threaded mount.
Definitely looks to be fan cooled now with that breather inlet.

Interesting. There is no pin hole hard reset on the bottom as the picopro has. I wonder if that hole is now located next to the usb-c port, does look like one. It is a rare thing but mine has locked up a couple of times over the years when switching from miracast to hdmi (it freezes on the celluon logo) and they only way to reset it is that pinhole switch.
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post #16 of 110 Old 12-02-2016, 10:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Verge2 View Post
Text would be great if you rotate 90 degrees.

With only 720p, prob not so great the other way.


Thanks for the info. Yes, it would be great to turn it on it's edge. Hmmm... I wonder if that could be done, and then rotate the PDFs to show up "correctly".


I guess I'll wait till the product comes out, and then decide whether to take the plunge. Hopefully, I could return it if it doesn't work out the way I like.
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post #17 of 110 Old 12-13-2016, 07:45 AM
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Only a couple of days till shipping! Got my pre-order in last week. I've been looking forward to the PicoBit for months. Hopefully it lives up to expectations. Anyone else have a pre-order?
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post #18 of 110 Old 12-13-2016, 12:31 PM - Thread Starter
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I pre-ordered day after I started the thread...looking forward to a side by side, same image brightness comparison to
see if it really is 3x as bright as the PicoPro.

Will post results as soon as i get it in.
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post #19 of 110 Old 12-14-2016, 12:37 PM
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Brrrright! Old picopro image on the left,


More at https://www.reddit.com/r/MVIS/commen...u/picobit_ifa/
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post #20 of 110 Old 12-15-2016, 10:59 AM
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Not yet on Amazon. Can't wait to hear users comments about this new product.
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post #21 of 110 Old 12-15-2016, 08:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fra Diavolo View Post
Brrrright! Old picopro image on the left,


More at https://www.reddit.com/r/MVIS/commen...u/picobit_ifa/
Really? The image on the left is 2x, maybe 3x the screen size. No crap it looks brighter
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post #22 of 110 Old 12-16-2016, 01:49 AM
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Still, brrrighter than the picopro:

http://petersmvis.blogspot.nl/
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post #23 of 110 Old 12-16-2016, 11:49 AM
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Delayed shipping:

"We have expected certification process to complete by early December, but due to the year-end holiday schedules with relevant certification organizations, delay has been occurred inadvertently. For now, your order is expected to ship by Dec. 30th."



https://www.reddit.com/r/MVIS/commen...hipping_delay/
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post #24 of 110 Old 12-16-2016, 12:30 PM - Thread Starter
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I got the delay email yesterday as well.

They charged me for the pre-order the day I did...most companies don't until actual shipping day.
minor gripe.
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post #25 of 110 Old 12-16-2016, 01:56 PM
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I got the email too. It's been an interesting journey so far. Early delays, misinformation, now this curious setback. I can't help but wonder why two shipping dates (12/22 and 12/30) as their does not appear to be but maybe a couple hundred pre-orders at most judging by the reddit threads. I suspect come next Thursday, another email will be sent.
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post #26 of 110 Old 12-21-2016, 10:32 AM
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Quick Start Guide and User Manual if anyone is interested.
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post #27 of 110 Old 12-22-2016, 09:23 AM - Thread Starter
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It has display adjustments cool!
Contrast, brightness, hue, saturation.

not so cool:
"All the adjustments made will be erased and reset to the default Standard mode
when the device powers off."

Seems odd that can't be saved the same way laser adjustment does and holds when powered off.
But it does have sleep/standby as a standard android device so probably not a big deal.

puzzling, that there is no hard reset button as the picopro in case of a freeze up.
I did not see a key press sequence to soft reset in the manual either.
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post #28 of 110 Old 12-22-2016, 12:25 PM
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When the resolution hits more than 480p measured, I still won't buy it because the Picopro was very dim, sparkly, and had horrible color banding issues particularly in dark scenes. From what I read of a breakdown of the Picopro/Sony mpcl1, they sacrificed resolution to avoid giving people free lasik treatment (sarcasm). 720p is a flat out lie.
The lack of a remote is also a dealbreaker, particularly if it still doesn't have a lens offset. If i'm going to need to get up to turn it off, i'd rather not risk burning my retinas every time with the thing mounted at eye level.
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post #29 of 110 Old 12-25-2016, 12:34 PM
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https://youtu.be/6Y0WMNOGk_I

Video posted via reddit. Here's his explanation:

I am really in awe. I will report back. I literally took the PicoBit out of the box, turned it on and recorded that music video on the ceiling above my bed. Bright, sharp color. Approximately a 40" image from 4 feet away. Easy connect to internet and bluetooth. Touchpad works great. Android OS sweet. Auto keystone correction works okay, but manual keysone adjustment seems to work better. Overall....Wow just wow.

There is so much to explore.. it's loaded with settings and features. I didn't notice the voice sync setting , but will get to it.

Btw... The 55 lm makes a huge difference, especially in a moderately lit room. I was amazed at the difference between 35 lm and 55 lm in that environment. Moderately lit in this case was a bedside table lamp and floor lamp in the corner. When I turned the lamps off, the image quality was every bit as good as the LED TV in the room. Not pumping here....the image quality has improved greatly from the PicoPro. Much sharper image with perfect color.
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post #30 of 110 Old 12-25-2016, 03:50 PM
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A front page heat warning...
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