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post #1 of 81 Old 11-27-2016, 09:28 PM - Thread Starter
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epson 3100

has anyone purchased the Epson 3100 yet? can you give a review of it...
I wil l be getting one this week
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post #2 of 81 Old 12-18-2016, 12:14 PM
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I was looking for info regarding the input lag on the 3100 but wasn't able to find it.
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post #3 of 81 Old 12-18-2016, 12:49 PM
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A link to the first test of a new 3700 is now up in the 3700 thread. You will need to use Google Translate to translate it from Dutch to English. I expect performance numbers from the 3700 will be quite similar to the 3100 in most respects.
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post #4 of 81 Old 01-03-2017, 08:40 AM
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Originally Posted by yakapo View Post
I was looking for info regarding the input lag on the 3100 but wasn't able to find it.
did you ever find that info? I'm looking for it too.
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post #5 of 81 Old 01-03-2017, 09:46 AM
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As far as I can tell the 3100 is a North America only model that has no equivalent in other parts of the world. The 3700 and 3900 are marketed as the EH-TW6700 EH-TW6800 outside of North America, but I can find no 3100 equivalent listed on any Epson country sites besides the US and Canada. That would explain why there are no early reviews from outside North America to rely on and we have to wait for North American reviewers to get hold of one.

If the 3100 is a North American only model then it's likely it will have minimal differences beyond omitting the internal speakers and amplifier from the 3700 since the cost of any changes can't be spread over the global market. Since the 3100 and 3700 use the same replacement lamp, the reduced lumens of the 3100 may be simply limited by the firmware which would cost virtually nothing to implement. I see no obvious reason why input lag between the 3100 and 3700 would be any different.

All of the above is purely speculative, but speculation is all we have to go on until someone actually publishes test results.
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post #6 of 81 Old 01-08-2017, 11:35 AM
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Raymond, if you have the 3100, would you mind posting your impressions?
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post #7 of 81 Old 01-08-2017, 05:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave in Green View Post
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Originally Posted by raiser72 View Post
Did you find a resolution? I'm having the same ghosting/crosstalk problems on my 3100, no matter what I do. 4 different pairs of glasses all the same brand, not Epson. Can either get clear foreground or background, but not both.
You are apparently one of the few 3100 owners on AVS Forum. Other forum members have been asking for impressions of the 3100. I'm sure they'd appreciate it if you could post your impressions and answer questions in the thread at the following link: epson 3100
Correct, couldn't find any info on it, Hence why I'm posting in 3700 forum for help on crosstalk. I chose the 3100 because I have a small (10x12 ft), light controlled theater and no use for speakers or the additional lumens in the 3700 (plus I only paid $1099 shipped). In fact on first setup, the 3100 was too bright, and that was after jumping from a 90" to a 120" screen....

I'm coming off a 10-year old 720p Epson powerlight home cinema 400, with no 3d . This projector is so much better in almost every way, except the lens shift. My 400 allowed for my extreme placement needs and the 3100 is going to require some creative relocation, as even at full vertical shift I have to use a small amount of keystone to square the image from a position slightly above the top of the screen. Yes I tried it inverted too, neither works.

Colors are fabulous, brightness is ample, even in eco mode. 3d looks great, except for the crosstalk, but this is my first ever attempt at 3d, so I feel like maybe I'm doing something wrong. I haven't fiddled with the advanced settings much and don't have a way to test input lag... Hmm maybe rock band? But that's because it's just so damn good right out of the box... My wife said as I swapped them in real time "wow, I thought I needed to wear my glasses, but that looks amazing, it's so clear." Again, a dim ten year old 720p vs. light cannon at 1080p, it's night and day.
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post #8 of 81 Old 01-09-2017, 04:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raiser72 View Post
... This projector is so much better in almost every way, except the lens shift. My 400 allowed for my extreme placement needs and the 3100 is going to require some creative relocation, as even at full vertical shift I have to use a small amount of keystone to square the image from a position slightly above the top of the screen. Yes I tried it inverted too, neither works. ...
Right, with zero lens shift the 3000 series is designed to be centered on the screen both vertically and horizontally. So as you move it up or down from centered on the screen it would require the same amount of lens shift whether upright or inverted. The 3000 series has 60% vertical lens shift which is adequate for most installations.

Thanks for sharing with those interested in the 3100.
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post #9 of 81 Old 01-10-2017, 10:12 AM
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I think this thread should be merged with the 3700 (and probably 3900) thread as the projectors are essentially the same and likely to have the same issues.
I'm doing my t-shooting in the 3700 thread as I am probably the only 3100 owner on the forum at present LOL.

There is a precedent for this: Epson Home Cinema 3000/3500/3600e Owners Thread

Mods?
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post #10 of 81 Old 01-10-2017, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Dave in Green View Post
Right, with zero lens shift the 3000 series is designed to be centered on the screen both vertically and horizontally. So as you move it up or down from centered on the screen it would require the same amount of lens shift whether upright or inverted. The 3000 series has 60% vertical lens shift which is adequate for most installations.

Thanks for sharing with those interested in the 3100.
I don't follow. How does the 3000 series have "zero lens shift" but also "60% vertical lens shift." Do you mean it only shifts vertically but not horizontally? Or did you mean that the 2000 series has zero lens shift? Or am I missing something? Thanks!
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post #11 of 81 Old 01-10-2017, 12:58 PM
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No, what I meant was that when a 3000 series projector is centered both vertically and horizontally on the screen it will not be using any of its available lens shift so the lens shift settings will all be at zero. When you said "I tried it inverted too, neither works" the point I was trying to make is that it wouldn't matter if the projector is upright or inverted because it has the same amount of lens shift up or down from its neutral or zero position.
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post #12 of 81 Old 01-10-2017, 02:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Dave in Green View Post
No, what I meant was that when a 3000 series projector is centered both vertically and horizontally on the screen it will not be using any of its available lens shift so the lens shift settings will all be at zero. When you said "I tried it inverted too, neither works" the point I was trying to make is that it wouldn't matter if the projector is upright or inverted because it has the same amount of lens shift up or down from its neutral or zero position.
+1 this. It's a good amount of shift, just not quite enough for my current layout. I misread it too the first time, but then it made sense on second read. Who the heck centers a projector on the screen? That might be the dumbest thing ever... The viewer should be centered on the screen, the PJ should be above, in almost every circumstance, with the possible exception of short throw.
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post #13 of 81 Old 01-10-2017, 03:44 PM
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... Who the heck centers a projector on the screen? That might be the dumbest thing ever... The viewer should be centered on the screen, the PJ should be above, in almost every circumstance, with the possible exception of short throw.
There actually is a valid reason for a projector to be mounted near even with the vertical center of the screen if it's designed to use the least lens shift when centered. Lens shift can have an effect on image quality -- not as much as digital keystone but some. The center of any lens is normally the sweet spot with the least distortion. Lens shift shifts the image toward the edges of the lens where there is more distortion. So it's recommended to use as little lens shift as possible in order to make maximum use of the center sweet spot of the lens and get the best possible image.

It's not discussed much here in the under $3,000 section of the projector forum. But in the high end projector section where there's more obsession with fine details to squeeze the last bit of image quality out of their more expensive, higher quality projectors, avoiding lens shift as much as possible is part of the equation for the hardcore.
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post #14 of 81 Old 01-10-2017, 09:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Dave in Green View Post
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Originally Posted by raiser72 View Post
... Who the heck centers a projector on the screen? That might be the dumbest thing ever... The viewer should be centered on the screen, the PJ should be above, in almost every circumstance, with the possible exception of short throw.
There actually is a valid reason for a projector to be mounted near even with the vertical center of the screen if it's designed to use the least lens shift when centered. Lens shift can have an effect on image quality -- not as much as digital keystone but some. The center of any lens is normally the sweet spot with the least distortion. Lens shift shifts the image toward the edges of the lens where there is more distortion. So it's recommended to use as little lens shift as possible in order to make maximum use of the center sweet spot of the lens and get the best possible image.

It's not discussed much here in the under $3,000 section of the projector forum. But in the high end projector section where there's more obsession with fine details to squeeze the last bit of image quality out of their more expensive, higher quality projectors, avoiding lens shift as much as possible is part of the equation for the hardcore.
Tell me any movie theater you've ever been to where the images were not projected from above and behind the viewers. People are the problem. Sticking a projector behind the viewing position means viewers block the projection, sticking it in front means they have to look at the PJ (unless it's short throw). To the best of my knowledge there are PJs with lenses that's are designed to mount above or below the screen and not centered, I believe the Epson 2040/45 are like that, unfortunately the pricier 3xxx series are not.
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post #15 of 81 Old 01-11-2017, 09:29 AM
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^ Commercial cinemas use professional projection equipment designed to work in a specific environment optimized exclusively for showing movies. Home video must work in a variety of different environments, from dedicated home theaters to mixed use rooms with a wide range of restrictions.

Most home projectors without lens shift are designed with vertical offset such that their optimum mounting position is upright near the bottom of the screen when table mounted or inverted near the top of the screen when ceiling or rear wall mounted. They have no mounting location flexibility without using digital keystone, which projector manufacturers recommend avoiding unless absolutely necessary.

Most home projectors with substantial vertical and horizontal lens shift (including the Epson 3000 series) are designed with no vertical offset such that their optimum mounting position using none of their available lens shift is centered on the screen both vertically and horizontally. Lens shift then provides them with much greater mounting flexibility than those without lens shift.

From years of reading AVS Forum I know of many cases where locating a projector near even with the center of the screen is the best or only option. I'm a good example of the many home users that have little mounting flexibility due to the nature of a mixed use room. In my case our mixed use family room is open at the rear into the kitchen. The only place I can reasonably have my Sony HW45ES is on a small table sitting between the two recliners my wife and I use to view movies. It ends up just slightly lower than the center of the screen, so requires only using minimal vertical lens shift.

Just because one location doesn't work for you don't think it doesn't work quite well for others with different circumstances.
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post #16 of 81 Old 01-26-2017, 04:48 PM
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Excellent review of the 3100 on projectorcentral.com:

http://www.projectorcentral.com/epson-3100-review.htm


My comments from the 3700 thread where the 3100 review was first mentioned:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave in Green View Post
As far as I know the 3700 is not going to be any different from the 3100 except for more lumens. Note that although the 3100 is rated by Epson at 2,600 lumens that projectorcentral.com actually measured it at a max of 2,882. That's more than enough for most people, so there's no reason to spend the extra $200 on the 3700 unless you have special requirements. I'll bet the 3700 will not be independently measured at 11% over its rated 3,000 lumens as the 3100 was over its rated 2,600. Aside from its better than advertised lumens the 3100 review also revealed another piece of good news for those who want to mount at its longest throw:

Zoom Lens Effect. The 1.6x zoom lens curtails only about 9% of the brightness at its full telephoto setting compared with its wide angle setting, which is better than most 1.6x zoom lenses offer. The difference is so negligible that you can all but ignore it when deciding where to position the projector. As a side note, this means that the 3100 meets its official lumen spec even with the lens at the full telephoto position -- that is something we rarely see especially on projectors with long zoom ranges.

Everything in the review points to the fact that Epson made significant improvements to the 3000 series. One disappointment in the review is the lack of data about contrast and black levels. All the review said was that they were visibly better than the 2040/2045. Duh!
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post #17 of 81 Old 01-27-2017, 09:21 AM
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The 3700 review is now also up on projectorcentral.com, and it also measures much higher in lumens than Epson's claimed 3,000. It's nice to have a direct comparison between these two models from the same reviewer.
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post #18 of 81 Old 01-31-2017, 11:20 PM
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For those who might be interested, I picked up the Expand 3D RF rechargable glasses from Best Buy, and they are a marked improvement on the edimensional ones from Amazon, which I will be returning.

Not perfect, but at least 3D is now watchable! Really loving the 3100, just taking a bit of tinkering to get it right. If you're on the fence and $1000-$1200 is in your budget, I'd say do not hesitate. There are far more pros than cons with this or the 3700. You could spend a lot of time analyzing, testing and comparing, but you'd be hard pressed to find anything better at this price.
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post #19 of 81 Old 03-07-2017, 09:52 AM
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EPSON HOME CINEMA (In Europe EH-TW6700) is now online and it's an amazing projector for his little price. :

http://www.projection-homecinema.fr/...son-eh-tw6700/

Google translation :

https://translate.google.fr/translat...%2F&edit-text=
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post #20 of 81 Old 03-07-2017, 10:07 AM
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Originally Posted by kraine View Post
EPSON HOME CINEMA (In Europe EH-TW6700) is now online and it's an amazing projector for his little price. :

http://www.projection-homecinema.fr/...son-eh-tw6700/

Google translation :

https://translate.google.fr/translat...%2F&edit-text=
Perhaps this TW6700 review should be posted in the 3700 thread as those two models are identical. This thread is about the 3100, which has fewer lumens than the 3700/TW6700 and no internal speakers.

Last edited by Dave in Green; 03-07-2017 at 10:11 AM.
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post #21 of 81 Old 03-07-2017, 01:16 PM
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Ok so this may be in the wrong place, but I've been researching projectors a bunch and I think I've narrowed it down. I was originally looking at the Epson HC3000 (which is $900 in a few places) but now I see the 3100 is $1,100 at a few places. Probably worth the couple hundred extra, right?

For info, I have a 16' deep x 14' wide x 8' tall room. I estimate probably 12' from projector lens to screen (I will have a pull down screen in front of a tv). I am trying for a 120" screen, which should fit between my front speakers. I will most likely ceiling mount the projector. The room is subject to some ambient light during morning/early afternoon, however the windows all face east so the sun doesn't shine in the evening. I definitely want 3d. I will not need internal speakers as I have a 5.1.2 setup

I liked Epson for the brightness, 3LCD system, and 2 year warranty. Thoughts? Should I post this elsewhere? Thanks!
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post #22 of 81 Old 03-07-2017, 01:45 PM
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Ok so this may be in the wrong place ...
You're in the right place. In addition to more lumens the 3100 is improved over the 3000 in many different ways and is easily worth a couple hundred dollars more.

The projector calculator at projectorcentral.com shows that the closest a 3100 can be to fill a 120" diagonal 16:9 screen is 11' 7" as measured from the front of the lens to the screen. Allowing a few inches fudge factor if you have a full 12' from lens to screen you should be fine. The 3100 will have more than enough lumens to overcome moderate ambient light on a 120" screen. The 3100's extensive horizontal and vertical lens shift will make mounting extremely easy.
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post #23 of 81 Old 03-07-2017, 01:55 PM
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You're in the right place. In addition to more lumens the 3100 is improved over the 3000 in many different ways and is easily worth a couple hundred dollars more.

The projector calculator at projectorcentral.com shows that the closest a 3100 can be to fill a 120" diagonal 16:9 screen is 11' 7" as measured from the front of the lens to the screen. Allowing a few inches fudge factor if you have a full 12' from lens to screen you should be fine. The 3100 will have more than enough lumens to overcome moderate ambient light on a 120" screen. The 3100's extensive horizontal and vertical lens shift will make mounting extremely easy.
Awesome, thank you for the quick response. For $1,100, this is pretty much top of the pile, right? Any other recommendations in this range?
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post #24 of 81 Old 03-07-2017, 02:31 PM
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The next clear step up is the Sony HW45ES which is quite a price jump. Those who prefer DLP over LCD would likely opt for something like the BenQ HT2050 or HT3050 which would cost a little less than the 3100 or the BenQ HT4050 which would cost a little more. Every projector has tradeoffs, so it's a matter of comparing each projector's pros and cons and deciding which pros are most important to you and which cons you can most easily live with.
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post #25 of 81 Old 03-07-2017, 03:46 PM
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Quote:
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The next clear step up is the Sony HW45ES which is quite a price jump. Those who prefer DLP over LCD would likely opt for something like the BenQ HT2050 or HT3050 which would cost a little less than the 3100 or the BenQ HT4050 which would cost a little more. Every projector has tradeoffs, so it's a matter of comparing each projector's pros and cons and deciding which pros are most important to you and which cons you can most easily live with.
Thanks, I'll definitely be doing some more research, but that gives me some good options in the price range

I just pulled up the HT3050 and I do remember looking at this. It's quite a bit lower lumens than the 3100, and also much lower contrast ratio, which is why I was drawn to Epson. It also doesn't have horizontal lens shift, although I shouldn't need that in my setup. I think I'll be going with the 3100, but maybe a little more research first
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post #26 of 81 Old 03-07-2017, 04:02 PM
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I ended up going with the 3100. Going to use this while I wait and see what happens with Epson and JVC's next gen projectors. Epson 5050/ JVC 440??? Hope they can advance 4k HDR further in the next year.
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post #27 of 81 Old 03-07-2017, 04:05 PM
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Now that I'm looking more this is getting into the "well for just $200 more I can get..." type situation. The Epson 3700 is $1300, vs the 3100 is $1100. So for $200 there's 400 more lumens and higher contrast (due to the increase in lumens). It looks like the 400 lumens and speakers are the two main differences for $200. I will have ambient light, so maybe it's worth it for the 3,000 lumens?
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post #28 of 81 Old 03-07-2017, 04:28 PM
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Whether or not anyone needs the extra lumens of the 3700 is a complex formula based on screen size, exact amount of ambient light, personal preference for brightness, priority for watching 3D (which cuts lumens more than in half), etc. It's not easy for anyone else to tell you whether or not you need those extra lumens. For most people under most conditions the 3100 is bright enough. If $200 is not a big deal to you and you want to play it safe, the 3700 is like buying an insurance policy.
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post #29 of 81 Old 03-08-2017, 04:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave in Green View Post
Whether or not anyone needs the extra lumens of the 3700 is a complex formula based on screen size, exact amount of ambient light, personal preference for brightness, priority for watching 3D (which cuts lumens more than in half), etc. It's not easy for anyone else to tell you whether or not you need those extra lumens. For most people under most conditions the 3100 is bright enough. If $200 is not a big deal to you and you want to play it safe, the 3700 is like buying an insurance policy.
Thanks for your help, Dave! I ended up buying the 3700 today. It's about $1,300 everywhere, except ebay has a 10% coupon right now (up to $100) and I bought through Adorama's eBay store, so it ended up at $1,200 effectively. Can't wait to give it a try! Going to be a long week or so
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post #30 of 81 Old 03-15-2017, 01:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clarkkent06 View Post
Thanks for your help, Dave! I ended up buying the 3700 today. It's about $1,300 everywhere, except ebay has a 10% coupon right now (up to $100) and I bought through Adorama's eBay store, so it ended up at $1,200 effectively. Can't wait to give it a try! Going to be a long week or so
Looking to pick up this or the 3100 to replace a now ancient panasonic ae500
Tried finding that 10% coupon but can't, can you point me to this? As you just posted today hoping it is still available.
I see now that this was a week ago, for some reason I was seeing today and not the date that you posted this.
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