Xiaomi Ultra Short throw laser projector - ~$1,500 USD??? - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 88 Old 06-28-2017, 10:21 AM - Thread Starter
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Xiaomi Ultra Short throw laser projector - ~$1,500 USD???

http://www.gsmarena.com/xiaomi_unvei...news-25873.php

Unfortunately looks to be China only, I would love to see how this things actually performs. 150" image (1080p) <20" from the wall with a wide color gamut, 5000 lumens, 3000:1 contrast ratio and 25,000 hour life span for ~$1,470 USD.

Xiaomi, bring this thing over stateside, thanks!
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post #2 of 88 Old 06-28-2017, 10:53 AM
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doesn't this feel like a unicorn? This can't be a real thing...
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post #3 of 88 Old 06-28-2017, 11:53 AM
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Inexpensive DLP4710 and 5-segment wheel with unknown speed
https://www.mi.com/laser-projection/
Let's wait tests
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post #4 of 88 Old 06-28-2017, 01:07 PM
 
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If this is real this could be something, a 1080p HDR projector with 3k:1 native on/off and 5k lumens + wcg + lasers for 1500k?

I'd kill to see a review on this.

If it accepts HDR10 and rec 2020 input it likely uses HDMI 2.0a input chips meaning there's a good chance it could have 1080p 120hz as well. In 1:1. To heck with 4K, seriously.

According to the specs page, it does have HDMI 2.0 inputs and 3D too. It also accepts native 4K input and downscales internally, interesting...(that could be necessary to preserve HDR for some UHD Bluray players or streamers). I believe Netflix won't give you HDR unless you have 4K too, even though there's no reason it should. 4K at 1080p results in 4:4:4 video, that should be pretty decent too (chroma res is 1080p for 2160p content)

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post #5 of 88 Old 06-28-2017, 01:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RLBURNSIDE View Post
If this is real this could be something, a 1080p HDR projector with 3k:1 native on/off and 5k lumens + wcg + lasers for 1500k?

I'd kill to see a review on this.

If it accepts HDR10 and rec 2020 input it likely uses HDMI 2.0a input chips meaning there's a good chance it could have 1080p 120hz as well. In 1:1. To heck with 4K, seriously.

According to the specs page, it does have HDMI 2.0 inputs and 3D too. It also accepts native 4K input and downscales internally, interesting...(that could be necessary to preserve HDR for some UHD Bluray players or streamers). I believe Netflix won't give you HDR unless you have 4K too, even though there's no reason it should. 4K at 1080p results in 4:4:4 video, that should be pretty decent too (chroma res is 1080p for 2160p content)
I've seen a few places mention you can get 720p hdr or 1080p hdr from netflix if you are on the 4 screen plan with compatible display (guessing this just means any hdcp 2.2 display with hdr, resolution agnostic)
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post #6 of 88 Old 06-28-2017, 01:36 PM
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Originally Posted by brendabryg View Post
I've seen a few places mention you can get 720p hdr or 1080p hdr from netflix if you are on the 4 screen plan with compatible display (guessing this just means any hdcp 2.2 display with hdr, resolution agnostic)
here's a couple links talking about Netflix HDR for 720p or 1080p
https://help.netflix.com/en/node/42384
http://www.techradar.com/news/sony-i...s-will-benefit
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post #7 of 88 Old 06-28-2017, 01:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thunderbird1100 View Post
http://www.gsmarena.com/xiaomi_unvei...news-25873.php

Unfortunately looks to be China only, I would love to see how this things actually performs. 150" image (1080p) <20" from the wall with a wide color gamut, 5000 lumens, 3000:1 contrast ratio and 25,000 hour life span for ~$1,470 USD.

Xiaomi, bring this thing over stateside, thanks!
Xiaomi is one of the biggest companies in China, they're like Sony trying to cover as many different products as possible.

Saw reports on the Mi laser projector a week ago but the interests for UST projectors in China over the past few months has risen exponentially as I predicted. Price wise it's around the same as the LG PF1000ug but with laser and probably a better OS. Here's the launch event:



Because it's Xiaomi this will definitely raise the game for other companies, but 4K is what I think most people are looking forward to.

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post #8 of 88 Old 06-28-2017, 02:28 PM
 
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Products like this can fill the gap in the market for people who understand that contrast, lumens, and HDR matter more than 4K.

I looked up the specs of the chip, it's 0.47 and true 1080p (not e-shifted faux-1080p like some other pico DLP versions which would be awful for 1:1), but the chipset to control it has a 150Mhz max input pixel clock, which means 1080p60 max, as usual:

http://www.ti.com/product/DLPC3439?k...-EN-Everything

To get 120hz inputted to the DMD's controller, it can't be more than 720p, regardless of surrounding electronics or the manufacturer's intent. So that means my dream of owning a single chip 1080p 120hz-capable projector can only be done with the 300Mhz UHD DLP chips.

Still, it's interesting that the contrast is this good (if the number is true), it's a smaller chip compared to the older DC3 / 4s at 0.47 vs 0.66 inch, but it does have 17 degree mirrors so that's likely why.

I thought these new smaller mirrors were the cause of the UHD DLPs having worse contrast than the 1080p units, despite the fact that they're also 17 degree. But apparently not.

I think these are the same mirrors which begs the question: why aren't we seeing any 4K DLPs with 3000:1 native? We should be able to, if this marketing is actually accurate. It's definitely way more in the realm of possibility than the ridiculous dynamic contrast numbers people always try to shuck and jive us with.
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post #9 of 88 Old 06-28-2017, 02:29 PM
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Their phones are pretty good. I ordered a Redmi Note 4X from China a month ago, sadly it got "lost" as soon as it arrived at my local customs office.

This one is out of my budget, but if it's this good, I might be able to stretch it. Without official support though, it's pretty risky.
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post #10 of 88 Old 06-28-2017, 02:36 PM
 
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Another thing that's interesting for the UHD DLPs:

http://www.ti.com/product/DLPC4422/d...ct#DLPS0249177

It seems 3D is literally already implemented in the controllers. That makes me angry that companies like Optoma didn't expose it, it's like a slap in the face. TI did all the hard work and all they had to do is re-use some of their 3D input processing chips from 1080p projectors and bam, done.

Another really weird thing in the specs for the 1080p model. It seems like gamma 2.2 is hard-wired into the duty cycling. Meaning if you feed it an HDR10 input signal, PQ encoded values get converted to SDR10 in gamma 2.2 and shown as is. That is really sucky, since it would be far, far better to natively encode the HDR10 into a LUT and then the duty cycling would match it perfectly. I think the main claim to fame for this projector will be the light source, good contrast, cheap price, and high lumens. The HDR performance should be decent due to the contrast but it might have more banding than the UHD versions. SDR10 using a gamma of 2.2 is nowhere near as good as HDR10 (PQ). I'm also surprised that the gamma value itself is hardwired, that makes no sense to me. Even on my w1070 I can change my gamma value, so does that mean it's just approximating 2.2 duty cycle values via a lookup table? That sucks. That means my idea of feeing my w1070 DLP with SDR10 encoded in gamma 2.8 might not even give any less banding.

Reviews will have to be read for these projectors.

The reds do look very good / saturated in those videos though. I can't wait to own a WCG laser projector someday
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post #11 of 88 Old 06-28-2017, 02:49 PM
 
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Wait a minute, I'm confused again. If the TI chips for 4K only allow 300Mhz pixel clocks, how does that work allow 8 million pixels per frame x 60 frames per second? That would require 480mhz, no? And even 1080p120 would require 250 Mhz.

But, that's seen from the input of the DMD controller. Meaning 2.7K at 120hz is completely out of the question for a single controller to handle. Meaning they must be using two of them...and, it looks like they are!

See page 7:

http://www.ti.com/lit/wp/dlpc105/dlpc105.pdf

It makes me really sad though, the idea that we likely won't get any true 120hz at 1080p native after all these years waiting. Then again, the Dell laser model does supposedly support 120hz input (at 1080p, upscaled to 2.7K most likely), so that's ok-ish.
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post #12 of 88 Old 06-28-2017, 04:55 PM
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If the speakers are halfway decent and the audio in is assignable, this could double as a center channel. Hopefully the input lag is good.

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post #13 of 88 Old 06-28-2017, 09:40 PM
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post #14 of 88 Old 06-29-2017, 01:11 AM
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More details about this projector (pretty much the same info from most early reports):



















- ALPD laser display technology
- weight about 8Kg
- size is 410mm × 291mm × 88mm
- Texas Instruments (TI) 0.47-inch DMD chip (same as XGIMI H1)
- Lens made by Ricoh, Japan
- Bluetooth remote with voice control (similar remote to the XGIMI H1)
- 3 HDMI, 1 USB3.0, 1 USB2.0, audio output, video input, optical audio output and network cable
- Amlogic T968 processor, 64-bit Cortex A53 CPU, Mali-T830 MP2 GPU, 2GB memory + 16GB flash memory
- supports HDR technology
- built-in high-power dual full-frequency + high-frequency high-fidelity speakers
- Equipped with a voice-guided tube design, support DOLBY, DTS dual decoding
- 44.3db noise level (close up)
- 224.7W power usage (much higher than H1 but still a lot less than most large TVs)

I can't find details about the speakers, it may be similar in spec to most soundbars.

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post #15 of 88 Old 06-29-2017, 03:49 AM
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Those conference room photos are encouraging. Not the way I would set it up nor would that image be acceptable to me but all things considered, the contrast seems to be holding up well in that environment. In the hands on demo it looks like they used some kind of ALR screen and it looks good considering the amount of light on the tradeshow floor. Xiaomi makes decent stuff so I'm confident this won't be white van junk. The going rate for a bulb based 1080p UST is $1300 so if this is really $1500 that's a steal.

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post #16 of 88 Old 06-29-2017, 04:35 AM
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Quote:
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If the speakers are halfway decent and the audio in is assignable, this could double as a center channel. Hopefully the input lag is good.
yikes not sure about that...
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post #17 of 88 Old 06-29-2017, 07:08 AM
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This is the same chip in hundreds of budget projectors, it's contrast is very poor.

Tack on a ust lens, don't expect it to be good.
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post #18 of 88 Old 06-29-2017, 10:06 AM
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Looks like what I've been waiting for! Does anyone know how I would go about buying one?

Looks like it's release date is July 4th!

Last edited by Thain; 06-29-2017 at 11:57 AM.
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post #19 of 88 Old 06-29-2017, 05:56 PM
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yikes not sure about that...
The teardown pics show dual tweeters + 2 full range drivers. Don't think I've ever seen that. Most projectors use a cheap single or dual driver. Also Xiaomi's earphones are excellent so I'm hoping some of their experience in the audio realm trickles down to this.

I bring this up only because UST projectors pose an obstacle with speaker placement in a surround setup since the projector goes where the center channel normally would be.

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post #20 of 88 Old 06-29-2017, 06:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aerodynamics View Post
The teardown pics show dual tweeters + 2 full range drivers. Don't think I've ever seen that. Most projectors use a cheap single or dual driver. Also Xiaomi's earphones are excellent so I'm hoping some of their experience in the audio realm trickles down to this.

I bring this up only because UST projectors pose an obstacle with speaker placement in a surround setup since the projector goes where the center channel normally would be.
The question you are asking is more of a "is it acceptable for you" type of thing. Some people are very particular about their audio. If you think it sounds fine, go for it.
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post #21 of 88 Old 06-30-2017, 03:05 AM
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man what a month for projector news...

Optoma, Epson, this...

where ya at BenQ? it's your turn...
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post #22 of 88 Old 06-30-2017, 07:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aerodynamics View Post
The teardown pics show dual tweeters + 2 full range drivers. Don't think I've ever seen that. Most projectors use a cheap single or dual driver. Also Xiaomi's earphones are excellent so I'm hoping some of their experience in the audio realm trickles down to this.

I bring this up only because UST projectors pose an obstacle with speaker placement in a surround setup since the projector goes where the center channel normally would be.
Firstly, discount the naysayers

The 0.47" TI DMD chipset had mixed results on the LG models (but still got great reviews), however XGIMI did a great job with it on the H1. I can only imagine that with laser driving the Xiaomi there should be some further improvements:

- The color reproduction is more accurate due to a higher proportion of red as well as a greater color gamut
- The brightness and contrast are improved
- The light source life is improved

I second Xiaomi on making some great products recently including TVs, phones, earphones, soundbars etc. I just ordered their Piston II earphones, apparently they're excellent at prices no one would believe.

For sound comparison, the 45mm Hardon/Kardon speaker drivers in my H1 are only 15w total but they're plentifully loud for bluetooth speakers. The Xiaomi has better audio specs with 2 tweeters and 2 woofers. I can't read Chinese but I saw the word "Bose" floating around somewhere.

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post #23 of 88 Old 06-30-2017, 07:14 AM
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There are some specs on site https://www.mi.com/laser-projection/specs/

7 kg
250W
5000 lm is light source brightness
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post #24 of 88 Old 06-30-2017, 11:01 AM
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So who’s buying one?


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post #25 of 88 Old 06-30-2017, 02:09 PM
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Made an account just to comment on this projector. I have been waiting to retire my w1070 for quite some time. Told myself I was going to jump on the laser bandwagon first chance it came into my price range because I hate the thought of buying new bulbs (My first w1070 exploded after one of the blower fans stopped working and the bulb over heated). It looks like this is it, not to mention it's an ultra short throw that's super freaking bright. I game so I hope the input lag is reasonable but even if it's not this sucker is a winner in my book. I was really close to just saying "F it" and blowing some savings for the Optoma UHZ65 but in all honesty that's probably more than I would need. I do watch a ton of movies but I'm sure I won't notice much of a contrast loss from my w1070. I was hoping for 4k but once again at this price range I could buy another one from xiaomi if they release a model that is at some point. Like one of the guys said, this thing seems like a unicorn and I really hope it checks out. I don't speak a word of mandarin but you can bet your ass I'm ordering one of these for fun just to check out on the 4th of July. Hell, if it ends up sucking I'll just have a bigger tv in my man cave. I have extremely high hopes for this one.
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post #26 of 88 Old 06-30-2017, 02:21 PM
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Some additional info (google translated from Chinese):

- The maximum can be projected to 300 inches, but 150 inches and below is the best display
- APLD 3. 0 laser light source technology, with RGRGB frequency
- Three 12V fans
- To a movie length, for example, 3 hours of running time, only consumption of 0.573 kWh, slightly higher than the average LCD TV, but still in an acceptable range
- After 20 minutes to test the value of the maximum temperature up to 56. 2 ℃
- Audio use 2 full-range speakers and 2 high-frequency speakers, a total of 30W
- Support Dolby 7.1 surround sound decoding and output

Was very interested in the speakers. I don't know what most soundbars are rated at in terms of power output but 30W seems like a reasonable amount, and is the highest to date for projectors. I think it's going to sound very good.

My concern is how power hungry this thing is for laser technology, despite 3 fans to channel airflow it still gets very hot.

Someone has put up some numbers:



If someone can translate Chinese that would be great.

source: https://kknews.cc/digital/lpbv5xz.html

There is another laser projector that is worth looking at, the JMGO 4K UST projector, though at 4K it is also 3 times more expensive:


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post #27 of 88 Old 06-30-2017, 02:51 PM
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Input lag results:



88ms.

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post #28 of 88 Old 06-30-2017, 05:25 PM
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Input lag results:



88ms.
Wow that's pretty bad. Pretty much eliminates it from consideration for me. For a non-gamer it would still be a good choice but 88ms, man that's unfortunate.
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post #29 of 88 Old 06-30-2017, 07:17 PM
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Wow that's pretty bad. Pretty much eliminates it from consideration for me. For a non-gamer it would still be a good choice but 88ms, man that's unfortunate.
If it's standard mode then that's really not bad.

170ms is bad lol

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post #30 of 88 Old 06-30-2017, 09:58 PM
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Originally Posted by rocklee View Post
Some additional info (google translated from Chinese):

There is another laser projector that is worth looking at, the JMGO 4K UST projector, though at 4K it is also 3 times more expensive:
If you're talking about the jmGO S1 Pro then the native resolution still stands at 1080p and it's about a 1000 lumens short of the Xiaomi model. Unless you were referring to a newer model I haven't seen yet. And while 88ms of lag isn't the best It's not the worst and I don't play competitively so it's no skin off my back. Can't wait to hear more.
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