Epson Home Cinema 2100 and 2150 HD Projectors Announced - Page 3 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #61 of 184 Old 08-30-2017, 12:19 PM
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worth buying the home cinema 3700 now

Hello long time reader first question
is it worth buying the home cinema 3700 now for the disccount or wait for the 2150 cheaper ?
Do you think that the new 2150 will perform similarly to the 3700 in terms of picture quality and black levels ?
Thank you in advance for your answers
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post #62 of 184 Old 08-30-2017, 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Dave in Green View Post
@lazyboy , I'm inclined to believe that projectorreviews.com just made a bad assumption that since the 2100/2150 has the same 1.6x zoom as the 3100/3700 that they also have the same 60% vertical lens shift. A close look at the User's Guides for both models very clearly shows this is not true. The 3100/3700 guide shows that the vertical offset range of 25.6" to 66" for a 100" screen is much greater than the -2.4" to +4.7" shown in the 2100/2150 guide. The -2.4" represents -5% and the +4.7" represents +10% of the ~47" vertical height of a 100" screen image area, so the 5 and 10 are definitely percentages and not setting steps.
No assumption, he was told that wrong info...

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post #63 of 184 Old 08-30-2017, 01:05 PM
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Originally Posted by w550 View Post
Hello long time reader first question
is it worth buying the home cinema 3700 now for the disccount or wait for the 2150 cheaper ?


Do you think that the new 2150 will perform similarly to the 3700 in terms of picture quality and black levels ?
Thank you in advance for your answers

But I hope I am wrong....

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post #64 of 184 Old 08-30-2017, 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Car67 View Post
No assumption, he was told that wrong info...
Yep, the Epson guy in the video didn't sound too convincing. My bet is on the user's guide being correct -- -5%/+10% vertical lens shift.

Note also in the video that when the Epson guy gives the much higher contrast ratio for the 2150, Art asks whether the 2100 and 2150 have different panels and the guy says no, same panels. So how do you get nearly double the contrast from the same panels, black magic?

You can count on the fact that the new 2000 series is not likely to have greatly improved panels over the older 2000 series models as they would be taking sales away from the more profitable 3000 series. As it is the 2150's claimed contrast of 65,000:1 is better than the 3100's rated 60,000:1. No way. The 2150's contrast is likely to be about the same as the 2100, which is rated at 35,000:1 -- same as the 2040/2045.

Let's just hope they didn't get the $49 replacement lamp price wrong.
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post #65 of 184 Old 08-30-2017, 08:39 PM
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The 2150's contrast is likely to be about the same as the 2100, which is rated at 35,000:1 -- same as the 2040/2045.
Which in native contrast terms, is anywhere from 350:1 to 500:1 according to the sites that measured the 2040/tw5300's native contrast. Yikes.

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post #66 of 184 Old 08-30-2017, 09:58 PM
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Yes, the 3100 and 3700 will be much better PJs.

These new models will drop to $500 within a few months, just like the 2040.
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post #67 of 184 Old 08-31-2017, 09:15 AM
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There's no question in my mind that Epson is playing to its strengths with a very smart engineering and marketing strategy. Perhaps the biggest advantage of 3LCD over DLP is that it produces equal color and white lumens in brightest mode and can produce more color lumens with lower lamp wattage. Perhaps the biggest disadvantage of lower cost LCD panels is poor native black levels even when compared with DLP, which isn't exactly great. So what do you do when handed that combination?

Epson has chosen to emphasize home video/entertainment over home theater with their lower cost models. This minimizes the inferior black level issue as home video/entertainment projectors are primarily used in ambient light as opposed to home theater models which are primarily used in the dark. Inferior black levels are less noticeable and less important in ambient light. Viewing in ambient light also maximizes 3LCD's advantage of high color lumens in brightest mode. At the high end Epson's UB models use more expensive LCD panels to achieve improved native black levels to compete in the home theater market.

Considering all the above, Epson's 3LCD models are better positioned at the low end of the market for use as a TV replacement. Of course when used like a TV day and night lamp replacements are required more frequently. The final piece of the puzzle is that since Epson designs and produces its own projector lamps it has been able to bring the cost down below all of its competitors. So lower end Epson models not only outperform DLP once above a minimum level of ambient light for TV replacement use but are also less expensive to operate due to low lamp replacement costs.

What this all means is that 3LCD technology and lower cost replacement lamps make Epson better positioned in the newly growing home video/entertainment segment of TV replacements and bright room light cannons. This is especially true at the lower end where lower cost LCD panels have such poor native black levels, which is not as much of a penalty as it is in dark home theater use.

Today if I were looking to buy a <$1,000 model primarily for dark home theater use I'd probably buy DLP. But if I were looking to buy a TV replacement or bright room light cannon for <$1,000 I'd probably buy one of Epson's 3LCD models. For the future Epson would be well-served to add low-cost, ultra-short-throw models which would further strengthen their leadership in the TV replacement segment.
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post #68 of 184 Old 09-06-2017, 01:25 PM
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Good news, maybe, in the EU/AU version TW5650(HC2150) specifications...
http://www.elgigantenforetag.se/pdf/...3B5BAB110E.pdf
3LCD panels are 0.61" MLA (D10), same as TW6700/HC3700/3100.
Lcd panels of the TW5350 was D9.
A new hope for a better contrast?
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post #69 of 184 Old 09-08-2017, 04:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave in Green View Post
There's no question in my mind that Epson is playing to its strengths with a very smart engineering and marketing strategy. Perhaps the biggest advantage of 3LCD over DLP is that it produces equal color and white lumens in brightest mode and can produce more color lumens with lower lamp wattage. Perhaps the biggest disadvantage of lower cost LCD panels is poor native black levels even when compared with DLP, which isn't exactly great. So what do you do when handed that combination?

Epson has chosen to emphasize home video/entertainment over home theater with their lower cost models. This minimizes the inferior black level issue as home video/entertainment projectors are primarily used in ambient light as opposed to home theater models which are primarily used in the dark. Inferior black levels are less noticeable and less important in ambient light. Viewing in ambient light also maximizes 3LCD's advantage of high color lumens in brightest mode. At the high end Epson's UB models use more expensive LCD panels to achieve improved native black levels to compete in the home theater market.

Considering all the above, Epson's 3LCD models are better positioned at the low end of the market for use as a TV replacement. Of course when used like a TV day and night lamp replacements are required more frequently. The final piece of the puzzle is that since Epson designs and produces its own projector lamps it has been able to bring the cost down below all of its competitors. So lower end Epson models not only outperform DLP once above a minimum level of ambient light for TV replacement use but are also less expensive to operate due to low lamp replacement costs.

What this all means is that 3LCD technology and lower cost replacement lamps make Epson better positioned in the newly growing home video/entertainment segment of TV replacements and bright room light cannons. This is especially true at the lower end where lower cost LCD panels have such poor native black levels, which is not as much of a penalty as it is in dark home theater use.

Today if I were looking to buy a <$1,000 model primarily for dark home theater use I'd probably buy DLP. But if I were looking to buy a TV replacement or bright room light cannon for <$1,000 I'd probably buy one of Epson's 3LCD models. For the future Epson would be well-served to add low-cost, ultra-short-throw models which would further strengthen their leadership in the TV replacement segment.


Dave, this is super helpful, and largely answers what I came here to ask... I'm looking for a "second TV" for my media room. There is a moderate amount of light in the room. Use will be probably 50% watching HD concert videos, 20% TV watching, 20% browsing my music collection via Kodi, and 10% movie watching. I'd like to stay under $1,000. Sounds like Epson might be just the right fit for me. Thanks!


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post #70 of 184 Old 09-09-2017, 05:45 AM
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Yes, the 3100 and 3700 will be much better PJs.

These new models will drop to $500 within a few months, just like the 2040.
yes very likely
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post #71 of 184 Old 09-15-2017, 03:20 PM
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Looks like these may be shipping as they now have an "Add to Cart" status on Epson's web site......
https://epson.com/For-Home/Projector...r/p/V11H852020

Hopefully reviews will soon follow...
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post #72 of 184 Old 09-17-2017, 02:21 PM
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1:50.... , 4:00.... , 4:50.... blank/black screen light.
I'll keep waiting for the native contrast tests....

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post #73 of 184 Old 09-17-2017, 09:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Car67 View Post
https://youtu.be/K3djrXOrkxM

1:50.... , 4:00.... , 4:50.... blank/black screen light.
I'll keep waiting for the native contrast tests....
I am the creator of the YouTube video review of the Epson 2150.

I've just uploaded some additional video of the projector running some test patterns. Maybe that will be more helpful to you?

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post #74 of 184 Old 09-18-2017, 09:58 AM
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Ordered one from BestBuy to use as a "helper" projector to save bulb hours on my JVC rs400. I have been using an LG led projector but wanted something with better blacks and 3D. The $49 bulb is the clincher. I will report my impressions after I set it up.

FYI, Best Buy has it now for $100 off...
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post #75 of 184 Old 09-18-2017, 10:02 AM
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Quote:
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Ordered one from BestBuy to use as a "helper" projector to save bulb hours on my JVC rs400. I have been using an LG led projector but wanted something with better blacks and 3D. The $49 bulb is the clincher. I will report my impressions after I set it up.

FYI, Best Buy has it now for $100 off...
Now I really wished I had waiting on buying my current 2040. This is worth the extra $300 or so to get over the 2040 IMO. Oh well.

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post #76 of 184 Old 09-18-2017, 11:38 AM
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I am the creator of the YouTube video review of the Epson 2150.

I've just uploaded some additional video of the projector running some test patterns. Maybe that will be more helpful to you?
Great! Thank you very much for your tests and videos.

What we need is an on/off contrast test, (then ansi maybe) with auto iris disabled, epson super white off, default settings for all the rest (or calibrated too), in all video modes: natural, cinema, bright cinema, dynamic, but you need a light meter to measure the screen brightness with a full black/white test image.

The real question is if this new projector has the same low contrast of the past 2040/45 series, or it is closer to the more recent hc3100/3700, unfortunately videos can't give a correct impression, you have to use an instrument.

Unless you previously owned a 2040/45 and you can tell us, at least, if contrast and black level look better or not to you.

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post #77 of 184 Old 09-18-2017, 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Car67 View Post
Great! Thank you very much for your tests and videos.

What we need is an on/off contrast test, (then ansi maybe) with auto iris disabled, epson super white off, default settings for all the rest (or calibrated too), in all video modes: natural, cinema, bright cinema, dynamic, but you need a light meter to measure the screen brightness with a full black/white test image.

The real question is if this new projector has the same low contrast of the past 2040/45 series, or it is closer to the more recent hc3100/3700, unfortunately videos can't give a correct impression, you have to use an instrument.

Unless you previously owned a 2040/45 and you can tell us, at least, if contrast and black level look better or not to you.
I just received the 2150 on Friday having returned the 2045, unfortunately my wife had me busy all weekend so I had very limited time to play around. This is what I have so far, to the eye it's brighter than the 2045, maybe too bright, cinema mode with Eco enabled seemed to the best setting for movies, again limited time to fully judge. I used a copy of "The Revenant", which is my go to for judging blacks and contrast in general, I can say it's noticeably better than the 2045 based on what I saw, but I'm also coming off watching a Kuro, so I'm used to much better blacks overall. I will say that it handled the opening scenes of The Revenant much better than I expected at a 12' distance on a 120" screen, I would have happily stayed in my theater room and watched the entire film if I could have. That's a pretty good sign for me because if I'm not thinking about black levels and color saturation, it pretty much means it's doing exactly what I want. I'll post more observations as I get more time to play around with it.
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post #78 of 184 Old 09-18-2017, 03:55 PM
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Thank you shasta. Your impressions are promising, while waiting for more precise measurements.

4 you and merb, if you have an uhd source, pc or player, could you try an uhd input @24/25/30p just to verify if it is supported? With or without fi. On the 2040/45 it was, with fi, no 3d.

Btw EU Manual tw5400/5600/5650:
http://www.projectorpoint.co.uk/imag...600-manual.pdf

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post #79 of 184 Old 09-18-2017, 08:08 PM
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Picked mine up from BestBuy. A few quick impressions. I won't be comparing it to my JVC RS400 because, c'mon. Compared to my LG 1500 LED projector, and my memories of my old Epson 5030, the 2150 puts out a very bright, richly colored image. Tried a few of the presets but adjusted nothing, flipped between Cinema and Bright Cinema.
I watched Netflix streaming of Europa Report and Patton. The early scenes of Europa Report have both a small letterbox image placed in a black border and scenes of the ship against a black space background, real torture tests for both native contrast and the iris. Blacks proved decent, quite respectable. The iris was on it's fastest setting and was occasionally noticeable but did help on all black scenes which were a dark grey (not surprisingly). Contrast and blacks were quite a bit better than my LG led projector, but slightly behind my memory of the Epson 5030, but not by much. The black bars of Patton were an acceptable dark grey.
Color was probably the strongest suit of this projector really rich and saturated. Flesh tones on both Europa Report and Patton were superbly natural looking. Detail is very good, but the lens sharpness is not nearly as sharp as my JVC (duh).
The brightness was superb! I'm going to run this on high even though I have a 133" Dalite Highpower screen (2.8 gain) because $49 bulb of course! Why not?
The real negative, and the reason I sold my Epson 5030 is the very visible pixel structure on text and fine detail. It's a tiny bit distracting, but does lend a feeling of excellent sharpness. 4K youtube channels like the 4K relaxation channel looks reasonably darn close to my JVC. I can note the typical color shift from the left side of the screen to the right on all white backgrounds.
Overall, the picture quality is substantially better than my LG 1500, and not far off my old Epson 5030.
At $49 a bulb, it's a keeper...

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post #80 of 184 Old 09-18-2017, 08:50 PM
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So, I had been thinking about a 2040 (or now the 2150) but then I just race across this 1450 on the Epson website... 4200 Lumens caught my attention. I'm looking for a LCD TV replacement in a lit room. Probably 50% Bluray concerts, 25% TV, 25% movies.

Is the 1450 a better option for my needs? It's more than I planned to spend, but I might be able to go up to its $1299 price if it's significantly better for my needs.


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post #81 of 184 Old 09-19-2017, 06:46 AM
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Contrast doesn't look too promising

If you look at the first video posted by Car67 and go to the 4:52 mark, you can see very light gray because the projected image at this point in the video doesn't take up the whole 16:9 screen. Notice that even though there is ambient light the "blacks" of the projector are still brighter than the wall.

I used to own a 2040 alongside my Sony 45es and when projecting with ambient light, the Sony's blacks are dark enough to match the brightness of the wall. The 2040's blacks were brighter than the wall. I hope I'm explaining this adequately. See the video at the mark I mentioned and you'll see. While video isn't generally good at showing black levels in darkness, I think the ambient light clip is very telling. 2040 with lens shift anyone?

I can't stand rainbows, but I know most people don't mind. That's why it looks like for movies, the $499 Benq ht1070 (native contrast measured at 2100:1) should be hands down, the superior projector and $400 cheaper to boot. Not much of a choice there, really.

To be sure, all the big projector review sites will be saying "great, bright image for home entertainment!". Because the 2150 will be. No doubt. But, so were the 2040 and the 2030. But they had terrible black levels. I predict this model will as well, even if marginally better blacks than the 2040. It's all about your intended use.


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post #82 of 184 Old 09-19-2017, 06:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elee532 View Post
So, I had been thinking about a 2040 (or now the 2150) but then I just race across this 1450 on the Epson website... 4200 Lumens caught my attention. I'm looking for a LCD TV replacement in a lit room. .............
............
Hi Elee....
I've the 1440 which is even a tad brighter but unless one is hard of hearing I doubt the full brightness would ever be used because of the excessive fan noise, ECO is fine but does that make the 1450 a better solution over the new 2150.
We'd need more information as to what is "a lit room" as no projector can compete against sunlight or direct light hitting the screen, IMHO the 2150 is looking like a nice entry for those wishing to replace their flat screens and wanting to get into the big screen movie experience having descent brightness, contrast, generous zoom and lens shift to accommodate less than ideal theater rooms.
Planing on picking up a 2150 for a friends living room installation and will do a direct comparison with my 1440 but that may be another month or so.
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Quote:
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If you look at the first video posted by Car67 and go to the 4:52 mark, you can see very light gray because the projected image at this point in the video doesn't take up the whole 16:9 screen. Notice that even though there is ambient light the "blacks" of the projector are still brighter than the wall.

I used to own a 2040 alongside my Sony 45es and when projecting with ambient light, the Sony's blacks are dark enough to match the brightness of the wall. The 2040's blacks were brighter than the wall. I hope I'm explaining this adequately. See the video at the mark I mentioned and you'll see. While video isn't generally good at showing black levels in darkness, I think the ambient light clip is very telling. 2040 with lens shift anyone?

I can't stand rainbows, but I know most people don't mind. That's why it looks like the $499 Benq ht1070 (native contrast measured at 2100:1) should be hands down, the superior projector and $400 cheaper to boot. Not much of a choice really.

To be sure, all the big projector review sites will be saying "great, bright image for home entertainment!". Yes, so were the 2040 and the 2030. But they had terrible black levels. I predict this will as well, even if marginally better than the 2040. Sorry to be a downer, but it's probably going to be the case.
I had a Sony 40es and the blacks were much better on that than on my 2150 (not surprising since it was more than double the cost). DLP projectors in this price range do have better blacks, but the richness of the colors and the brightness of this epson give the image a nice "pop". The Epson bulb price $49 vs $199 on the Benq is another consideration, particularly if you are projecting in a living room and want to use it as a TV and with some light (mine is a dark theater). This Epson would be an excellent choice for a living room...

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post #84 of 184 Old 09-19-2017, 08:13 AM
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I had a Sony 40es and the blacks were much better on that than on my 2150 (not surprising since it was more than double the cost). DLP projectors in this price range do have better blacks, but the richness of the colors and the brightness of this epson give the image a nice "pop". The Epson bulb price $49 vs $199 on the Benq is another consideration, particularly if you are projecting in a living room and want to use it as a TV and with some light (mine is a dark theater). This Epson would be an excellent choice for a living room...
Oh, absolutely. I'm sure the 2150 looks awesome for sports or general TV. No doubt about it. The $49 lamps are just icing on the cake.

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post #85 of 184 Old 09-19-2017, 11:32 AM
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Oh, absolutely. I'm sure the 2150 looks awesome for sports or general TV. No doubt about it. The $49 lamps are just icing on the cake.
It actually does a great job with films as well, it's just not realistic to expect plasma blacks or even the blacks of a projector twice the cost. I will say that having had the 2045 for a week before returning it, that the 2150 is without a doubt a class above in terms of contrast level. Ad that to the color and picture clarity, and I just can't see much competing with it at this price point.
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post #86 of 184 Old 09-19-2017, 11:44 AM
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Anyone compare blacks of 2150 vs 3700 ? Or just picture quality in general.
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post #87 of 184 Old 09-19-2017, 01:25 PM
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Originally Posted by elee532 View Post
So, I had been thinking about a 2040 (or now the 2150) but then I just race across this 1450 on the Epson website... 4200 Lumens caught my attention. I'm looking for a LCD TV replacement in a lit room. Probably 50% Bluray concerts, 25% TV, 25% movies.

Is the 1450 a better option for my needs? It's more than I planned to spend, but I might be able to go up to its $1299 price if it's significantly better for my needs.
It depends on how big your screen is, exactly how much ambient light is in the room and how bright you prefer your image, which is a personal preference that varies from person to person. The logical step up from the 2150 is the Epson 3700, which is about halfway between the 2150 and 1450 in overall brightness. But the 3700 is optimized for home video whereas the 1450 is essentially a business crossover projector that can be used for home video as well as business presentations. The 1450 lacks key 3700 features such as substantial lens shift for maximum mounting flexibility and will have a slightly less refined image for home video than the 3700. Each model has its own set of trade-offs.

EDIT: Corrected to show that the 3700 does not have any lens zoom advantage over the 1450. The 3700, 1450 and 2100/2150 all have 1.6x zoom lenses.

Last edited by Dave in Green; 09-19-2017 at 03:18 PM.
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post #88 of 184 Old 09-19-2017, 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by shasta View Post
It actually does a great job with films as well, it's just not realistic to expect plasma blacks or even the blacks of a projector twice the cost. I will say that having had the 2045 for a week before returning it, that the 2150 is without a doubt a class above in terms of contrast level. Ad that to the color and picture clarity, and I just can't see much competing with it at this price point.
Well, maybe they really shrinked a 3100 into a smaller case!

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post #89 of 184 Old 09-19-2017, 03:16 PM
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Well, maybe they really shrinked a 3100 into a smaller case!
Possibly...believe it was mentioned that the LCD panels in the European equivalent of the 2150 are the same as in the 3100 ...trickle down technology....the larger 3100 should be quieter and image quality will still need to be determined but I would not be surprised if it is the same.
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post #90 of 184 Old 09-20-2017, 07:51 AM
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Possibly...believe it was mentioned that the LCD panels in the European equivalent of the 2150 are the same as in the 3100 ...trickle down technology....the larger 3100 should be quieter and image quality will still need to be determined but I would not be surprised if it is the same.
Possible, they would have to do something to distinguish between the 2150 and the lower model.
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