Epson Home Cinema 2100 and 2150 HD Projectors Announced - Page 6 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #151 of 208 Old 10-02-2017, 10:48 AM
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All rf (no ir/dlp link) glasses work, the choice depends on quality and practical use, with disposable battery or rechargeable, closed or open sides, more or less inner crosstalk, hard to evaluate depending on the video too. You can watch all 3d blurays with a 3d bd player, including bd consoles, and watch all side by side or top bottom videos on youtube filmed with personal camcorders.

About the models to choose, player and glasses, you will find more answers in the 3d section...
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/193-3d-central/

Personally I own samsungs with disposable battery, plus an original epson, and a xpand 240hz, but I can't see great differences, samsungs are a little brighter showing more crosstalk in the critical high contrast scenes on my pj in signature, 2200lm, but I find them more confortable than the heavier others, I suggest to try one of 2-3 kinds before buying a lot of one.
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post #152 of 208 Old 10-09-2017, 06:52 AM
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TW5650/HC2150 review...
http://www.projection-homecinema.fr/...son-eh-tw5650/
Discussion...
http://www.projection-homecinema.fr/...test-en-cours/



TW6700/HC3700
http://www.projection-homecinema.fr/...son-eh-tw6700/



TW5350/HC2045
http://www.projection-homecinema.fr/...son-eh-tw5350/
Excerpt about the contrast of the TW5350/2045:
Le contraste natif de nouvel EPSON est vraiment trop bas avec une mesure de 518:1, la mesure augmente avec le premier niveau de l’iris dynamique pour passer à un petit 1095:1 et enfin culmine à 7267:1 avec le mode rapide (rappelons toutefois que ces deux dernières sélections s’accompagnent d’une baisse visible de la luminosité à l’image quand le dispositif s’active).
The native contrast of the new EPSON is really too low with a measure of 518:1, the measure will rise with the first level of dynamic iris to a small 1095:1 and 7267:1 with fast mode (remember however that these last two) selections are accompanied by a decrease in visible light to the image when the device is activated).


So the native contrast of the new TW5650/HC2150 is >3x than the TW5350/2045!!!




He was right!
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post #153 of 208 Old 10-09-2017, 08:19 AM
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Difference between 2150 and 2100

So, was anyone able to figure out what is causing the difference in the contrast ratios between 2150 and 2100?
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post #154 of 208 Old 10-09-2017, 08:29 AM
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Extremely impressive conclusion (ignoring the funky Google translation) in the projection-homecinema.fr review linked to in the above post that the new TW5650 (2150) actually does approach the TW6700 (3700) in image performance:

Quote:
Attention Acer, BenQ or even Optoma! the TW5650 is in place! It comes to play on the platforms of your DLP 1080P models at less than € 1000. It does it very beautiful way, proposing a model completed, completely equipped for the home theater and with a picture without defect prohibitive. His rendering has convinced us so much that we believe he is also competing with one of his big brothers, the TW6700 . In short, forget the TW5350 and its weak contrast: with its new TW5650 , EPSON has corrected the defects of the previous version and if you are considering buying a simple projector to use but without sacrificing performance and without being obliged to you ruin, the new TW5650 meets your specifications, as well as ours.
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post #155 of 208 Old 10-09-2017, 08:42 AM
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First full review of the 2150:

http://www.projection-homecinema.fr/...son-eh-tw5650/

you can use google translate to read it in English.
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post #156 of 208 Old 10-09-2017, 09:15 AM
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Originally Posted by ZachGucces View Post
So, was anyone able to figure out what is causing the difference in the contrast ratios between 2150 and 2100?
So far the only difference is in the manufacturer claimed specs, and we all know how unreliable they can be. We won't know if there is an actual difference until reliable independent testing shows a difference.
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post #157 of 208 Old 10-09-2017, 11:12 AM
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Epson is probably cherry picking parts for the 2150. I did an AB comparison between Warcraft on VUDU with my JVC and unsurprisingly the JVC won with FauxK detail, image smoothness and black levels but the Epson still proved very pleasant to watch.
I use my JVC now for only 4K material to save bulb life and am extremely pleased with the Epson for normal viewing. To me the outstanding feature of the Epson is the bright rich colors.
As I said previously, black freaks need not apply.
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post #158 of 208 Old 10-09-2017, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Dave in Green View Post
So far the only difference is in the manufacturer claimed specs, and we all know how unreliable they can be. We won't know if there is an actual difference until reliable independent testing shows a difference.


Contrast is as claimed.
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post #159 of 208 Old 10-09-2017, 11:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Dave in Green View Post
So far the only difference is in the manufacturer claimed specs, and we all know how unreliable they can be. We won't know if there is an actual difference until reliable independent testing shows a difference.
Amazon is selling the 2100 for 650$ and I am trying to figure out if is the same as the 2150 ($800).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZachGucces View Post
Amazon is selling the 2100 for 650$ and I am trying to figure out if is the same as the 2150 ($800).


Quote:
Epson Home Cinema 2100, $849: With the HC 2100, in comparison with the previous models you get an upgraded 1.6x zoom lens and vertical lens shift. The 2100 and 2150 are the first two home theater projectors under $1000 to have these features which make them easier to install in a wider variety of locations. They also have an upgraded 10-watt speaker on board, which makes them handy for portable use where you might not have a sound system (think backyard movie night).

Epson Home Cinema 2150, $899: The HC2150 is the flagship of the entry level home theater projectors under $1,000. Like the 2100 it has the 1.6x zoom and vertical lens shift, and 10-watt audio. Both are MHL-enabled. one big difference between the 2100 and 2150 is contrast -- the 2100 is rated at 35,000:1 while the 2150 is 60,000:1. Also the 2150 comes with WiDi and Miracast for wireless streaming, and it also has wireless network control for control by a remote network computer. That is a lot of extras on the 2150 over the 2100 for only $50, so judging from the specs it seems like a no-brainer to go with the 2150.

http://www.projectorcentral.com/proj...0&entry_id=732
also see:

http://www.projectorreviews.com/epso...look-review-2/
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post #161 of 208 Old 10-09-2017, 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by DunMunro View Post
It is hard to understand why the hc2100(tw5600) without miracast for only 50$ less, has worse color filters than the hc2150(tw5650), as stated here....
http://www.projectorreviews.com/epso...-2150-and-2100
A separate contrast test is required for the hc2100(tw5600), and the European only tw5400, to verify this.

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post #162 of 208 Old 10-09-2017, 01:55 PM
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@Car67 , good catch on the projectorreviews.com explanation:

Quote:
So, why should you spend that extra $50? The Home Cinema 2100 has a lower contrast ratio of 35,000:1 –the 2150 has a contrast ratio of 60,000:1. What does that mean? According to Epson – the difference is the 3LCD panels. As readers may know, every 3LCD projector has 3 LCD panels, they are monochromatic, but each gets a different filter: Red, Green, and Blue. Epson explains that the Compensation Filter for the HC2150 panels are richer, and have higher performance than in the HC2100.
Previously the 2045 cost $50 more than the 2040 and only added miracast. For the same $50 increase with the 2150 over the 2100 you now get both miracast and improved panel filters that improve contrast. While we still need to see some reliable independent testing to see exactly how much better the 2150 is than the 2100, this appears to be a pretty a big deal. While the 2040 was recommended over the 2045 for all except those who wanted the wireless feature it looks like the 2150 is now going to be recommended over the 2100 for almost everyone whether they need wireless or not.

I was skeptical that Epson would make so many improvements in the 2150 for such a low price. But it's looking more and more as if the 2150 could challenge the usual DLP suspects for most recommended projector <$1,000.
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post #163 of 208 Old 10-09-2017, 02:25 PM
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I've been eyeing the 2100 for a month, and I couldn't pass up the $200 off sale. From what I saw last night, Best Buy put the 2100 on sale for 649, and then Amazon followed suit. Then I woke up today and Best Buy changed it to its original price, so I thought maybe this is going to be a really fast sale possibly even a mistake so I bought it.

I hope I don't regret getting the 2100 instead of the 2150, or a DLP model like the BenQ ht2050. Bottom line is I was looking for more throw distance, at least 1.8: 1 and there weren't a lot of new options. This will be my first real home theater projector, all I have now is a Acer p1173 which is DVD resolution and too bright for movies. I can't wait to get the 2100, and I guess I'll keep my eye out for 2150 sales just in case. If I'm really unhappy with the blacks I doubt the 2150 would downright fix that though.

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post #164 of 208 Old 10-09-2017, 07:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave in Green View Post
@Car67 , good catch on the projectorreviews.com explanation:

Previously the 2045 cost $50 more than the 2040 and only added miracast. For the same $50 increase with the 2150 over the 2100 you now get both miracast and improved panel filters that improve contrast. While we still need to see some reliable independent testing to see exactly how much better the 2150 is than the 2100, this appears to be a pretty a big deal. While the 2040 was recommended over the 2045 for all except those who wanted the wireless feature it looks like the 2150 is now going to be recommended over the 2100 for almost everyone whether they need wireless or not.

I was skeptical that Epson would make so many improvements in the 2150 for such a low price. But it's looking more and more as if the 2150 could challenge the usual DLP suspects for most recommended projector <$1,000.
Or, it could just be advertising b.s. The 2000 and the 2030 were identical except distribution channels. The 2040 and 2045 were the same except for miracast essentially. I'd be willing to bet the 2100 and the 2150 are the same save for miracast as well. We know Epson charges $200 more to go from the 3100 to 3700 and the picture quality difference is negligible. I just can't make sense of them all of the sudden charging a mere $50 more for a dramatic image improvement.

I could certainly be wrong, but we all know that advertised contrast is to be ignored, why not be skeptical of the "richer" color filters?

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Originally Posted by DunMunro View Post


Contrast is as claimed.
I don't doubt the numbers for the other modes, but I think @kraine messed up his dynamic mode contrast calculation. The contrast doesn't go up 8x with the same projector increasing its light output by 400 lumens. The black floor would be the same. Epson would not add some amazing auto iris for just dynamic mode and then go back to the standard iris for the other modes.

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post #166 of 208 Old 10-09-2017, 11:32 PM
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I remember the Epson representative/agent was wrong about lens shift, so why not on rgb panels, I doubt they are different on the 2100/2150(5600/5650), until proven otherwise, maybe on the European model tw5400 is different, anyway better wait just in case.

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post #167 of 208 Old 10-10-2017, 08:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Car67 View Post
TW5650/HC2150 review...
http://www.projection-homecinema.fr/...son-eh-tw5650/
Discussion...
http://www.projection-homecinema.fr/...test-en-cours/



TW6700/HC3700
http://www.projection-homecinema.fr/...son-eh-tw6700/



TW5350/HC2045
http://www.projection-homecinema.fr/...son-eh-tw5350/
Excerpt about the contrast of the TW5350/2045:
Le contraste natif de nouvel EPSON est vraiment trop bas avec une mesure de 518:1, la mesure augmente avec le premier niveau de l’iris dynamique pour passer à un petit 1095:1 et enfin culmine à 7267:1 avec le mode rapide (rappelons toutefois que ces deux dernières sélections s’accompagnent d’une baisse visible de la luminosité à l’image quand le dispositif s’active).
The native contrast of the new EPSON is really too low with a measure of 518:1, the measure will rise with the first level of dynamic iris to a small 1095:1 and 7267:1 with fast mode (remember however that these last two) selections are accompanied by a decrease in visible light to the image when the device is activated).


So the native contrast of the new TW5650/HC2150 is >3x than the TW5350/2045!!!




He was right!
Quite the rave review. I would completely agree with this statement:

"Although we have already tested hundreds of video projectors, we remain amazed by the advances in image quality associated with lower prices. The image of this TW5650 equals or even exceeds that of the devices that were worth 5 times its price just ten years ago."
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post #168 of 208 Old 10-11-2017, 03:24 PM
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Quite the rave review. I would completely agree with this statement:

"Although we have already tested hundreds of video projectors, we remain amazed by the advances in image quality associated with lower prices. The image of this TW5650 equals or even exceeds that of the devices that were worth 5 times its price just ten years ago."
Perhaps less than 10 years

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My 2100 arrived today(yes not the 2150). I haven't been able to mount it on the ceiling yet, but I sat it on top of a bookcase about 13 feet from my wall, I was able to get a 110 inch screen easily with the generous amount of zoom. The vertical lens shift was useful enough so I could lower the screen to exactly meet the top of the wall. The picture wasn't what I expected but that's probably my fault not matching the room with the right projector.

The good: I'll start off by saying that the colors in bright scenes are better than I've seen on any TV. I was watching The Grand Tour in 1080p and I noticed that for the episode where they're turning cars into coral reefs, they must have really colorized this segment to look Caribbean, because all the colors popped. I think the coolest thing about this projector is that I was able to look at an image on the screen like the clothes that someone was wearing and immediately notice what type of fabric it was, and that's due to both the clarity of the image and the correct colors.

The bad: I'd seen videos and screenshots of the 2040 maybe having some grays here and there but still showing detail in the shadows, the videos did not prepare me for seeing a 3lcd projector in person. Even in bright scenes where there were shadows, I was having trouble seeing inside them. Again it's probably my fault. Number one I chose this projector based on the color but I knew people said its predecessor the 2040 was not for light controlled rooms. I tried to make my room is dark as possible with blackout shades, but I'm still just projecting onto a white wall, in a completely white room. Also maybe the blacks are being affected by my viewing angle so once I ceiling-mount the projector and lower the image, I hope to see some improvement. Yesterday I looked at a video that showed how both DLP and 3lcd projectors work, and I was noticing brightness changing due to the Iris, and I'm not sure I can get used to something like that, it just doesn't seem like a reliable way to get black level performance.

What kind of room will everybody here be using the 2100 / 2150 in? How do you design a room for a 3lcd projector?

Last edited by Maze810; 10-11-2017 at 11:50 PM.
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post #170 of 208 Old 10-12-2017, 08:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maze810 View Post
My 2100 arrived today(yes not the 2150). I haven't been able to mount it on the ceiling yet, but I sat it on top of a bookcase about 13 feet from my wall, I was able to get a 110 inch screen easily with the generous amount of zoom. The vertical lens shift was useful enough so I could lower the screen to exactly meet the top of the wall. The picture wasn't what I expected but that's probably my fault not matching the room with the right projector.



The good: I'll start off by saying that the colors in bright scenes are better than I've seen on any TV. I was watching The Grand Tour in 1080p and I noticed that for the episode where they're turning cars into coral reefs, they must have really colorized this segment to look Caribbean, because all the colors popped. I think the coolest thing about this projector is that I was able to look at an image on the screen like the clothes that someone was wearing and immediately notice what type of fabric it was, and that's due to both the clarity of the image and the correct colors.



The bad: I'd seen videos and screenshots of the 2040 maybe having some grays here and there but still showing detail in the shadows, the videos did not prepare me for seeing a 3lcd projector in person. Even in bright scenes where there were shadows, I was having trouble seeing inside them. Again it's probably my fault. Number one I chose this projector based on the color but I knew people said its predecessor the 2040 was not for light controlled rooms. I tried to make my room is dark as possible with blackout shades, but I'm still just projecting onto a white wall, in a completely white room. Also maybe the blacks are being affected by my viewing angle so once I ceiling-mount the projector and lower the image, I hope to see some improvement. Yesterday I looked at a video that showed how both DLP and 3lcd projectors work, and I was noticing brightness changing due to the Iris, and I'm not sure I can get used to something like that, it just doesn't seem like a reliable way to get black level performance.



What kind of room will everybody here be using the 2100 / 2150 in? How do you design a room for a 3lcd projector?


I have the 2150 mounted in my living room. It will be used for everything, tv, movies, and games. I rarely notice the iris doing its thing, I don’t hear it like I have in previous Epson models and it hasn’t been distracting.

I have a Samsung 55” 4K television in the bedroom and I have my computer set up so that I can mirror it in the living room. I have not got around to calibrate either one fully but it amazed me how well the Epson image compared to the other. So far I have not felt like I had to strain to see things in the shadows, but I have not watched a great deal of low light scenes yet. At night with all the lights off it looks it’s best, but I don’t have any trouble watching movies in the daytime with the curtains and blinds down.

After I put the projector up and the kids settled in to watch a movie my 4 year old son was amazed, he said “Wow! What kind of projector is this!” He was able to see the improvement right away my previous projectors.

One thing I have noticed is that the image tends to drift up. I have the projector mounted inverted and I have had to adjust the lens shift twice since I’ve had it mounted. I normally adjust the shift so that it is too low then raise it to the desired height, so yesterday I tried the opposite and we will see how that works out.

Also the lower right of my image is slightly blurred, I don’t notice it while watching a movie, but if I’m reading a small font on the computer it becomes apparent. It’s not so bad that I can’t read it but it’s a little annoying. It may be a panel alignment issue, I can’t seem to ever get that area in perfect focus but set it as close as I can and the rest of the image looks great.


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... Also the lower right of my image is slightly blurred, I don’t notice it while watching a movie, but if I’m reading a small font on the computer it becomes apparent. It’s not so bad that I can’t read it but it’s a little annoying. It may be a panel alignment issue, I can’t seem to ever get that area in perfect focus but set it as close as I can and the rest of the image looks great.
The most common cause of this issue is that the wall and/or screen is not absolutely flat and square with the projector. The most common fix is to first determine if the corner of the screen that's out of focus is either slightly closer or slightly further from the projector. If that corner is slightly further away then you shim it further out. If that corner is slightly closer then you shim the other three corners further out. This has worked for many who have reported that issue.
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... I was noticing brightness changing due to the Iris, and I'm not sure I can get used to something like that, it just doesn't seem like a reliable way to get black level performance. ...
Some people prefer using an iris and some don't. It's a feature on almost all higher cost projectors, but the more expensive projectors typically have a more sophisticated iris than less expensive models. Your Epson has three iris options -- normal, high speed and off. You should try all three positions and use the one that best suits your preferences. I turned mine off on my old Panasonic and ended up buying a Sony HW45ES with good native black levels and no iris. But many have commented that the iris on the Epson 5040UB, for example, is so good that they don't even notice it changing from scene to scene.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave in Green View Post
The most common cause of this issue is that the wall and/or screen is not absolutely flat and square with the projector. The most common fix is to first determine if the corner of the screen that's out of focus is either slightly closer or slightly further from the projector. If that corner is slightly further away then you shim it further out. If that corner is slightly closer then you shim the other three corners further out. This has worked for many who have reported that issue.


I will investigate this further and see if that will help. I have the screen hanging with a French cleat without any shims on the bottom edge so it does slightly tilt the bottom towards the wall. For some reason I can’t get the area to come into a sharp focus at all though. It seems like the focal point would just be slightly different if it was out of square.



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post #174 of 208 Old 10-12-2017, 03:45 PM
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... For some reason I can’t get the area to come into a sharp focus at all though. It seems like the focal point would just be slightly different if it was out of square.
That does sound like a projector issue rather than the screen. Brand new models like the 2100 sometimes have more issues during early production. The good thing about having an issue so soon with a brand new model is that if you exchange under warranty you're likely to get a new one rather than a refurb they fixed under someone else's warranty.
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post #175 of 208 Old 10-13-2017, 08:35 PM
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Lens shift of the 2150

I've been able to gather a little more information to pass along since getting the 2150. In my room the projector is 13' from the screen. From that distance the smallest diagonal image is 82" with an available lens shift of 8". The largest diagonal image is 132" with an available lens shift of 11.5".

Also the air fllters are different. The 2100 has a thin dark colored foam air filter while the 2150 has a thicker, pleated filter.

Home Cinema 2100 replacement air filter (ELPAF54) V13H134A54
Home Cinema 2150 replacement air filter (ELPAF55) V13H134A55

Last edited by merb; 10-13-2017 at 10:25 PM.
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post #176 of 208 Old 10-15-2017, 02:58 PM
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2150 mounted Screen photo

Here are a couple of photos of the projected image on my new 120" screen. First one has no room lighting. The second one has some light shining on the screen. This is in cinema mode with the brightness control down from the default. I have not tried to calibrate anything. And do not judge the color or contrast, etc from these photos.

My only real issue with the 2150 so far is focussing. I cannot get it razor sharp anywhere on the screen. That focus handle is way too sensitive. My last projector focused on the outside of the lens and it was MUCH easier to make small focus changes. This is just ridiculous. Do most projectors in the price range not have a focus "ring"?
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post #177 of 208 Old 10-15-2017, 03:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by merb View Post
I've been able to gather a little more information to pass along since getting the 2150. In my room the projector is 13' from the screen. From that distance the smallest diagonal image is 82" with an available lens shift of 8". The largest diagonal image is 132" with an available lens shift of 11.5".

Also the air fllters are different. The 2100 has a thin dark colored foam air filter while the 2150 has a thicker, pleated filter.

Home Cinema 2100 replacement air filter (ELPAF54) V13H134A54
Home Cinema 2150 replacement air filter (ELPAF55) V13H134A55
If the hc2150 had richer color filters (darker) as stated, it could trap more heat inside to justify a bigger air intake/filter. Still skeptical though.

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Last edited by Car67; 10-15-2017 at 03:15 PM.
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post #178 of 208 Old 10-15-2017, 04:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Car67 View Post
If the hc2150 had richer color filters (darker) as stated, it could trap more heat inside to justify a bigger air intake/filter. Still skeptical though.
Having two different air filters for two similar models is a good sign that there may be more internal differences than expected. Having to design, develop and stock in inventory different air filters is something that projector makers try to avoid in order to keep costs under control. I was originally a skeptic like you that there wouldn't be much difference between these two models. However the growing evidence is making me less skeptical.
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post #179 of 208 Old 10-15-2017, 09:59 PM
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In an earlier post, I said that I was having trouble seeing details inside shadows on my 2100. It wasn't just the color of my blacks, I compared my projector to my TV and noticed I was missing a ton of detail and the picture was too dark. I changed my HDMI video range from Auto to Expanded and picture quality got a whole lot better. Please note that I'm using PS3, and this might have had something to do with it.

Last edited by Maze810; 10-15-2017 at 10:03 PM.
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post #180 of 208 Old 10-16-2017, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by DVDMike View Post
Here are a couple of photos of the projected image on my new 120" screen. First one has no room lighting. The second one has some light shining on the screen. This is in cinema mode with the brightness control down from the default. I have not tried to calibrate anything. And do not judge the color or contrast, etc from these photos.

My only real issue with the 2150 so far is focussing. I cannot get it razor sharp anywhere on the screen. That focus handle is way too sensitive. My last projector focused on the outside of the lens and it was MUCH easier to make small focus changes. This is just ridiculous. Do most projectors in the price range not have a focus "ring"?
Just a thought, I purchased the 2150 and have been extremely happy with it except for that very reason of absolute clarity. I'm used to the clarity and blacks of high end plasma TV's and while no projector, especially one under a $1000 bucks is going to come close to that level, I did take the advice of another poster and added a Darbee 5000 to help boost clarity and detail. For me its been the perfect addition and while don't think I'll be using it for general TV broadcast, it's outstanding for movies from a strong source.
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