Epson Home Cinema 2100 and 2150 HD Projectors Announced - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 131 Old 08-22-2017, 12:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Epson Home Cinema 2100 and 2150 HD Projectors Announced

The Epson Home Cinema 2100 and 2150 HD projectors improve upon the previous generation is several ways while keeping their prices under $1000.

http://www.avsforum.com/epson-home-c...ors-announced/
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post #2 of 131 Old 08-22-2017, 06:10 AM
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And it appears replacement lamps are only $49
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post #3 of 131 Old 08-22-2017, 06:24 AM
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Wow. Interested to see how these perform.


The 2040 was a hot seller but woefully outclassed by DLP models in it's price range. With the addition of more zoom, some vertical lens shift (thank god) and improved contrast performance this could actually offer an alternative for AV enthusiasts shopping at this price point.

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post #4 of 131 Old 08-22-2017, 07:25 AM
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It figures I buy a 2040 last month and this comes out for about $00 to $500 more, but sure it is worth it when for a few hundred more you could have the 3100 or the 3700. Oh well, I am liking the 2040 so far.

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post #5 of 131 Old 08-22-2017, 07:33 AM
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Very interested to see the contrast improvement.

I went with a Benq HT2050 because I got it for just $550 shipped over a 2040/2045. A friend of mine got a deal on a 2045 and brought his over to compare. The contrast difference was pretty noticeable. The HT2050 was noticeably deeper to both of us. I like the value the cheap LCD projectors bring with their cheap lamps, if they can catch up to DLPs in contrast performance it's a hard time trying to sell the DLP with $200+ lamps.
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post #6 of 131 Old 08-22-2017, 07:34 AM
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I've been considering the 3100 and waiting for it to go back on sale. It looks like the 2150 is pretty close on specs. Am I missing something?
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post #7 of 131 Old 08-22-2017, 07:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by osanya View Post
I've been considering the 3100 and waiting for it to go back on sale. It looks like the 2150 is pretty close on specs. Am I missing something?
It appears so, but the 3700 is on sale right now at $100 under the 3100 and that would be a good deal I think. with it having a little more lumens and contrast for the money.

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post #8 of 131 Old 08-22-2017, 08:10 AM
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With lens shift and extended zoom...looks like a winner...
https://epson.com/For-Home/Projector...r/p/V11H852020
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post #9 of 131 Old 08-22-2017, 08:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by osanya View Post
I've been considering the 3100 and waiting for it to go back on sale. It looks like the 2150 is pretty close on specs. Am I missing something?
The 3100 will have 100 more lumens and 3700 will have 500 more. Both the 3100 and 3700 have horizontal and vertical lens shift where the 2150 only has vertical I think. The 3100 and 3700 have larger cases (16.1 x 12 x 6.4; 14.6 lbs) and thus quieter fan noise range 24 - 35 db than the 2150 (12.2 x 11.2 x 4.8; 7.7 lbs) 29 - 37 db noise. They all have 1.6x zoom now.
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post #10 of 131 Old 08-22-2017, 08:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Ladeback View Post
It appears so, but the 3700 is on sale right now at $100 under the 3100 and that would be a good deal I think. with it having a little more lumens and contrast for the money.
I think I'll wait a few weeks and save $350. 2500 lumens seems bright enough for my basement. I wonder what the reviews will be like though.
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post #11 of 131 Old 08-22-2017, 08:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sage11x View Post
Wow. Interested to see how these perform.


The 2040 was a hot seller but woefully outclassed by DLP models in it's price range
I'd hardly say it was woefully outclassed. Perhaps its only better in that price range was the BenQ Ht2050, which provided for better contrast (as all DLPs will in the same price range vs. LCD generally). What it did have VS. the BenQ was:

1. $99 replacement bulbs vs. $250
2. Smaller footprint
3. No rainbow effect
4. Less gaming lag
5. $99 replacement bulbs vs. $250 (Did I say that twice? )
6. 2 year overnight replacement warranty VS. 1 year 'you'll get it eventually' warranty
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post #12 of 131 Old 08-22-2017, 08:25 AM
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Originally Posted by lazyboy View Post
The 3100 will have 100 more lumens and 3700 will have 500 more. Both the 3100 and 3700 have horizontal and vertical lens shift where the 2150 only has vertical I think. The 3100 and 3700 have larger cases (16.1 x 12 x 6.4; 14.6 lbs) and thus quieter fan noise range 24 - 35 db than the 2150 (12.2 x 11.2 x 4.8; 7.7 lbs) 29 - 37 db noise. They all have 1.6x zoom now.
Perfect. Thanks, lazyboy. That's what I was looking for. Fan noise could be a deal killer for me. I'll wait for reviews or the 3100/3700 price to drop.
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post #13 of 131 Old 08-22-2017, 08:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by osanya View Post
I've been considering the 3100 and waiting for it to go back on sale. It looks like the 2150 is pretty close on specs. Am I missing something?
If you only go by manufacturer specs you are missing a lot.
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post #14 of 131 Old 08-22-2017, 08:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Dave in Green View Post
If you only go by manufacturer specs you are missing a lot.
This would make a good bedroom projector.
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post #15 of 131 Old 08-22-2017, 10:24 AM
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Looking more closely at fine details between the new 2000 series and current 3000 series they are listed with identical zoom, focal length and F-number. Since the 3000 series has a much more serious lens than the old 2000 series models, upgrading the new 2000 series to the 3000 series lens should make a noticeable improvement in image quality. There isn't enough technical data available yet to know the difference in LCD panels, but I doubt the new 2000 series will get the 3000 series panels.

The big difference in contrast specs between the 2100 and 2150 is definitely a mystery. The 2100 has the same published contrast spec as the old 2040/2045 while the 2150 is listed at nearly double that contrast. The 2150 adds wireless over the 2100 for an extra $50, same as the old 2045 did over the 2040. But the 2040 and 2045 had identical contrast specs. It's doubtful that Epson would almost double the actual contrast between the 2100 and 2150, so this may just be another example of why manufacturer contrast specs can't be trusted.

It's obvious from the images and dimensions of the new 2000 series models that the case remains smaller than the 3000 series, so with less room for internal baffling the 2000 series may still have more fan noise than the 3000 series. But the 2000 series uses 200W lamps vs. 250W for the 3000 series, so a difference in heat generation there. That new lens sure does look big on the little 2100/2150 case compared with the tiny lens on the 2040/2045!

Adding in the vertical lens shift (though the exact amount of shift is not yet published), clearly this is a step up for the 2000 series, closing the gap with the 3000 series and increasing the gap from the 1000 series. The new 1060 is not significantly changed from the 1040 it replaces, so now it's easier to see the 1000 series as Epson's entry level 1080p model with the 2000 series and 3000 series each being a clear step up.
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post #16 of 131 Old 08-22-2017, 11:42 AM
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Originally Posted by thunderbird1100 View Post
Very interested to see the contrast improvement.



I went with a Benq HT2050 because I got it for just $550 shipped over a 2040/2045. A friend of mine got a deal on a 2045 and brought his over to compare. The contrast difference was pretty noticeable. The HT2050 was noticeably deeper to both of us. I like the value the cheap LCD projectors bring with their cheap lamps, if they can catch up to DLPs in contrast performance it's a hard time trying to sell the DLP with $200+ lamps.


They won't. Not at this price point or, at least, not this year. I don't expect these new models to outperform the 3100 and the 3100 has roughly the same native contrast as the HT2050 but much worse ansi contrast. In addition, BenQ has shown a W2000+ (an upgrade to the 3050) with significantly enhanced contrast performance over just about anything available below the Sony45ES.

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post #17 of 131 Old 08-22-2017, 12:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Sean Spamilton View Post
I'd hardly say it was woefully outclassed. Perhaps its only better in that price range was the BenQ Ht2050, which provided for better contrast (as all DLPs will in the same price range vs. LCD generally). What it did have VS. the BenQ was:



1. $99 replacement bulbs vs. $250

2. Smaller footprint

3. No rainbow effect

4. Less gaming lag

5. $99 replacement bulbs vs. $250 (Did I say that twice? )

6. 2 year overnight replacement warranty VS. 1 year 'you'll get it eventually' warranty


In terms of picture quality the 2040 underperformed it's price point, IMO. If you value contrast, color saturation, motion resolution, sharpness, pixel fill, or 3d performance a competing DLP (like, but not limited to, the HT2050) would be much preferable.

What to do if you find yourself stuck with no hope of rescue:
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post #18 of 131 Old 08-22-2017, 01:14 PM
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I don't think there is any point in arguing over DLP vs LCD here. You are either a fan of one or the other, and you either value cheap OEM lamps/great warranty or slightly better black levels.

The only thing that will stop me from getting one is the fact that Epson has dropped the lamp cost for the 3000, 4000 and 5000 series projectors. Now any of them would be a great TV replacement, so I might have to step up a series or two come October.

It will be interesting to see how the lamp price drop will effect the competitors like Sony and BenQ.
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post #19 of 131 Old 08-22-2017, 02:01 PM
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Since these projectors are only 1080p, then why not buy a high end used Runco or JVC for a bit more money and get even better value?
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post #20 of 131 Old 08-22-2017, 02:24 PM
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Since these projectors are only 1080p, then why not buy a high end used Runco or JVC for a bit more money and get even better value?


Well if they are worried about a $200 lamp they have to replace every 2-5 years I doubt they'll be happy about a $400 lamp.

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post #21 of 131 Old 08-22-2017, 03:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sage11x View Post
They won't. Not at this price point or, at least, not this year. I don't expect these new models to outperform the 3100 and the 3100 has roughly the same native contrast as the HT2050 but much worse ansi contrast. In addition, BenQ has shown a W2000+ (an upgrade to the 3050) with significantly enhanced contrast performance over just about anything available below the Sony45ES.
There are practically no projectors under the Sony HW45ES which offer acceptable contrast.
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post #22 of 131 Old 08-22-2017, 03:37 PM
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Well if they are worried about a $200 lamp they have to replace every 2-5 years I doubt they'll be happy about a $400 lamp.
I really hope people realize it is not about the money for everyone. It is the principle of paying hundreds for a lamp that might cost the manufacturer ten buck or less. I call it smart shopping to consider warranty and cost of ownership when purchasing a projector as well as image quality. If I can get close to the "leader", I am willing to sacrifice a little image quality for a projector that I can use 20 hours a day for two years without any thought to "saving the lamp".

Let me give you a better example. Buy a projector with a $200 to $500 lamp and the lamp goes out right after the lamp warranty expires. Would you be happy? Buy a projector with a $49 lamp and have premature lamp failure and at least for me, it is no big deal to replace the lamp at that cost. Now I would get upset if it happened again, but if it happened again with a $400 lamp, upset isn't the word that would describe how I would feel.

In a few months after release the 2100 will hit a sale price of $650 or less. It will have features that the DLPs at this price point currently do not have as well as having a better warranty in most instances and a $49 lamp replacement cost. Putting one up in a less than perfect room and how can you go wrong?

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post #23 of 131 Old 08-22-2017, 07:57 PM
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Epson Home Cinema 2100 and 2150 HD Projectors Announced

Quote:
Originally Posted by steve1106 View Post
I really hope people realize it is not about the money for everyone. It is the principle of paying hundreds for a lamp that might cost the manufacturer ten buck or less. I call it smart shopping to consider warranty and cost of ownership when purchasing a projector as well as image quality. If I can get close to the "leader", I am willing to sacrifice a little image quality for a projector that I can use 20 hours a day for two years without any thought to "saving the lamp".



Let me give you a better example. Buy a projector with a $200 to $500 lamp and the lamp goes out right after the lamp warranty expires. Would you be happy? Buy a projector with a $49 lamp and have premature lamp failure and at least for me, it is no big deal to replace the lamp at that cost. Now I would get upset if it happened again, but if it happened again with a $400 lamp, upset isn't the word that would describe how I would feel.



In a few months after release the 2100 will hit a sale price of $650 or less. It will have features that the DLPs at this price point currently do not have as well as having a better warranty in most instances and a $49 lamp replacement cost. Putting one up in a less than perfect room and how can you go wrong?


Sure. But that would be like buying a corolla because the replacement tires are cheaper than the tires on a GTI. I'm glad you're saving pennies a day for when and if that bulb goes and if that's your thing: cool. Plenty of people buy corollas and I'm sure low cost of ownership is a prime motivator for that. I have a friend that makes a killer living and could afford whatever he wants but he just loves saving money. It's his thing. He could drive a porsche but he has a Toyota instead. Personally I'm not going to be happy driving a corolla just because when and if I need to replace the tires they'll be a little bit cheaper than that fun to drive GTI. When you consider the price difference over time the cost of the replacement bulb falls awfully far down the list of things I consider when buying a projector.

What to do if you find yourself stuck with no hope of rescue:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sage11x View Post
Sure. But that would be like buying a corolla because the replacement tires are cheaper than the tires on a GTI. I'm glad you're saving pennies a day for when and if that bulb goes and if that's your thing: cool. Plenty of people buy corollas and I'm sure low cost of ownership is a prime motivator for that. I have a friend that makes a killer living and could afford whatever he wants but he just loves saving money. It's his thing. He could drive a porsche but he has a Toyota instead. Personally I'm not going to be happy driving a corolla just because when and if I need to replace the tires they'll be a little bit cheaper than that fun to drive GTI. When you consider the price difference over time the cost of the replacement bulb falls awfully far down the list of things I consider when buying a projector.
So your comparing LCD (Corolla) to a DLP (GTI) and having to replace the tires to a lamp as an example? I think it would think using motors as more as an example since without the lamp or motor neither one is going to work and is the major part of the item. That is better example, and LCD projector is better then a Corolla, more like a Celica.

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post #25 of 131 Old 08-23-2017, 07:11 AM
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So your comparing LCD (Corolla) to a DLP (GTI) and having to replace the tires to a lamp as an example? I think it would think using motors as more as an example since without the lamp or motor neither one is going to work and is the major part of the item. That is better example, and LCD projector is better then a Corolla, more like a Celica.
I was thinking that comparing the normally aspirated Tata Nano to the turbocharged Smart Fortwo would be a more valid comparison where the Smart Fortwo enjoys an almost 2:1 advantage in measured HP/PS/KW power. Not to mention one extra cylinder for a more balanced configuration...

Of course that probably begs the question and opens the door to the geopolitical debate of whether or not one is making a fair and balanced comparison as one is comparing the the manufacturing capability and industrialization of an emerging third world/second world multinational automotive manufacturing company to that of a much older and very well established German multinational automotive corporation.

And then, do these two "City Cars" from two very different geopolitical manufacturers offer any real value for the North American market when compared to subcompact hybrid automobiles like the Ford Fusion, the Toyota Prius, and the Honda Civic?

I wonder if retro-fitting two low cost projector lamps from Epson to a Smart Fortwo would produce more lumens for night rally driving or illumination of a 9'x16', 16:9 aspect, Silver Ticket Screen?

I always love to read automobile/projector analogies... They can be so enlightening!

I think I'll take a look at the most recent commodities report in the "Wall Street Journal" and see what the price of "Square Camel Legs" are trading at...

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post #26 of 131 Old 08-23-2017, 08:51 AM
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Ho ho! The snark is real. Or to quote Dr. horrible: "Sarcasm: that's original!"

Did the math. If I replace my bulb at 36 months (doubtful as I have yet to take my projector out of eco and I'm at 2 year already) the difference between my bulb and one of these $99 Epson bulbs figures to $.09 / day. Considering I use my projector most days I'll gladly pay the dime to have a better picture.

What to do if you find yourself stuck with no hope of rescue:
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post #27 of 131 Old 08-23-2017, 09:52 AM
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Ho ho! The snark is real. Or to quote Dr. horrible: "Sarcasm: that's original!"

Did the math. If I replace my bulb at 36 months (doubtful as I have yet to take my projector out of eco and I'm at 2 year already) the difference between my bulb and one of these $99 Epson bulbs figures to $.09 / day. Considering I use my projector most days I'll gladly pay the dime to have a better picture.
Not taking aim...

It's just that bulb talk is kind of superfluous blather. If you buy a projector, it costs something to use it and bulbs are a consumable. Cheap bulbs are nice. But I'm with you, there is a cost for a better picture, if for no other reason than, "because they can" and "they" are in business to make money, provide jobs, and repeat. And it isn't about what the bulb costs, it's about what it costs to make it and cover the cost of doing business. Another way to look at it is that a $500 bulb in a $10000 projector is 5% of the projectors cost. An $80 bulb in a $600 projector is 13+% of the cost of the projector. Which one is more expensive?

There's a reason better performance/nicer things cost more, always have and I suppose always will.

Sorry, but the automobile analogies drive me crazy; dumbing something down to compare it to a car is where a thread "jumps the shark". And then there is the guy who buys a projector and doesn't use it because he's saving the bulb!

If there is an analogy comparing a car to a projector bulb, it's probably something more like "I bought a car and it ran out of gas. I've got to buy some gas" And then there's "my car uses premium gas" or "I would not buy that car because it uses premium." Or maybe, "I wish my premium car used regular gas!"

There, now I've done it too!
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post #28 of 131 Old 08-23-2017, 11:16 AM
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Kudos to Epson for their product updates with some new features. However, I suspect that these new projectors will have the same awful contrast as the 2030 and 2040. I remember how the speculation went on this forum when the 2040 was announced. "Will the contrast be that much better?" Of course, it wasn't. It was terrible. Few reviewers even post epson's contrast numbers because they're so bad. Here's one who did test (europe version; tw5300), and quite thoroughly to be sure:

http://projectiondream.com/en/review...son-eh-tw5300/

370:1 native

I guarantee the 2100 will have 700:1 or less; native. Forgive my pessimism. I would be genuinely impressed and enjoy the taste of crow if contrast on these new models competed with DLP in addition to the new features that come with it. Unfortunately the main review sites don't measure the contrast and just say "hey, what a great projector for home entertainment!"

Just my take.
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post #29 of 131 Old 08-23-2017, 11:38 AM
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This is really simple and doesn't even require a car mention. Consensus is that at the lower end DLP has at least a small image performance advantage over 3LCD -- for those who aren't sensitive to DLP rainbows, anyway. Epson did what most smart companies do when their product technically trails a competitor's by adding value. In this case the added value comes from lower-cost replacement lamps. Epson is in a unique position to do this because they design and produce their own lamps instead of buying them wholesale from lamp suppliers. This has helped level the playing field in terms of total sales as some now choose entry level 3LCD Epson models over entry level DLP models precisely for the lamp replacement cost savings. While it means more to some than others, good corporate competition like this makes all consumers winners because there are more choices to suit different preferences.
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post #30 of 131 Old 08-23-2017, 11:48 AM
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Guys spend whatever you want for lamps. I really don't care. Be happy with only a 1 year warranty. I'm fine with that. Buy whatever brand of projector you want...

but that is not the way I operate. I consider cost of ownership with every purchase I make. Epson is offering a bright 1080p projector with a 2 year warrant along with features not found on other projectors at this price point while only charging $49 for a lamp. Also, I realize that no sub $1K projector is going to be perfect just like my room isn't perfect for projecting, so "I'll take the bright little inexpensive projector with low cost of ownership for under $800, Alex."

Remember this is an Epson thread announcing a new model. Why come here if you prefer another brand or higher end projector? I don't go to all the BenQ threads and mention the lamp exploding issues, or all the Sony threads to mention the dreaded lamp flickering issues.

Bottom line is if you want a inexpensive projector with low cost of ownership, great warranty and that is bright enough for a less than perfect viewing environment, then why not consider an Epson over an LED or DLP with a higher cost of ownership.

Edit: On the native contrast issue, the current model has an auto iris which bumps the measured contrast from 600:1 to 5600:1. While it might bother some and not work for all scenes, it does help. https://www.soundandvision.com/conte...iew-test-bench

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/15-gen...eap-build.html
Epson HC3700/HC2000; Screen - 151.5" 16:9/TV or 143.5" 2.35:1/HT at a seating distance of 13/14 feet; Yamaha RXV675 for 7.4; Speakers - Infinity Primus; Subs - 3 Polk PSW10s, 1 BIC F12; Headphones - 4 JVC wireless; Sony 3D Blu-ray player/six pairs 3D glasses.

Last edited by steve1106; 08-23-2017 at 12:01 PM.
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