is my AVR (not having HDCP 2.2) going to be the weak link for best Epson 5040 image - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 32 Old 09-06-2017, 02:04 PM - Thread Starter
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is my AVR (not having HDCP 2.2) going to be the weak link for best Epson 5040 image

I have just purchased a new projector (Epson 5040UB). My old PJ (Sanyo Z-5) only supported 720p

Just to deflect flames, I have read (much of) the Official Epson 5040ub/6040ub owners thread. I kind of "get" what the PJ can do but am still not clear how it be affected by the rest of my components.

My AVR is a Yamaha RX-V773 and (from everything I can gather after reading numerous post and searches) these are the specs
  • meets HMDI 2.a (with newer/proper HMDI cables)
  • supports HDCP 2.0 but NOT 2.2 [because 2.2 is cooked into the hardware (via a chip), so this limitation can't be updated via FW]
  • supports "4k pass through"
  • supports HDR video

The Epson 5040 PJ with is native 1080p and "accepts a 4k input" (but is not "true" 4k).

My 4k sources would be from a TiVo Bolt (but I could also replace my Roku 3 with a Roku Premeire+ or Ultra. Both the Bolt and the new Rokus claim they are capable of outputting a 4k signal from "appropriate sources")

I don't have a 4k DVD player (and probably don't plan to get one- we now stream practically everything) and I don't have a game console.

Here is my simplistic question:

Do I need to upgrade my AVR to get the "best" image on this new PJ when viewing 4k sources? (or- is upgrading to a true 4k stream from source thru AVR irrelevant anyway with the Epson 5040?)

As I said, with appropriate source, the Bolt outputs a 4k signal, the AVR "passes" a 4k signal and Epson accepts the 4k signal but only uses 1080+ (2k?) of that signal?

BUT, the crux is- is all of that Moot with the inability of RX-V773 to support HDCP 2.2 which means any 4k signal will be blocked? And, does that even matter with the Epson 5040 (even though literature brags about great picture form 4k sources)???


It's certainly hard to keep up with the "weakest link" issue and having to buy all new hardware every few years due to hardware limits to upgradability with things like HDCP 2.2 which require every component in the chain to be compatible.

Last edited by DrNorm; 09-06-2017 at 10:51 PM. Reason: add comment
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post #2 of 32 Old 09-06-2017, 02:08 PM - Thread Starter
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i.e., a) will ANY 4k signal be blocked because the AVR does not support HDCP 2.2 and b) does that even matter when the Epson 5040 doesn't really support 4k anyway?

Does this also, therefore, mean, no HDR or wide color gamut?

Will everything just auto-downconvert to 1080p regardless of output settings on sources? (and the PJ does its "4k enhancement" dithering-thing from the 1080p signal)

I also see the term "2k signals discussed in places?

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post #3 of 32 Old 09-06-2017, 07:50 PM
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If the AVR HDMI switching is an issue, but you are satisfied with its other features, an external HDMI matrix switch is often less expensive that replacing a decent AVR. You will need at least two outputs so one can feed sound over HDMI to the old AVR.

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post #4 of 32 Old 09-06-2017, 09:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Of course, then none of your menus or commands (e.g., volume level) from the AVR are visible -

A Switcher is a workaround but hardly ideal....

I guess question is really, although when new, receiver passed 4K signals, now with HDCP 2.2 being a hardware controlled item, does "any" AVR that does not have it pass any 4K signal?

As usual, all of these formats and standards leads to a lot of problems and incompatibility. Even for devices that claim to be HDCP 2.2 compliant (like Roku Ultra), reading those device forums leads me to believe that there are still a lot of issues even under ideal conditions.
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post #5 of 32 Old 09-08-2017, 11:14 AM
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HDCP has nothing to do with image or PQ. It is the link between devices that is encrypting the signal to make it non breakable; i.e. protected. This was upgraded when it came to the 4k era.

I had a issue with my Samsung 4k TV and a new Roku 4 Premier + I bought as we've recently cut the cord (200mb FTW). My TV would display 4k, but the port I had it plugged into when I first turned on the Roku gave an error that I have plugged into a non compliant HDCP 2.2 HDMI port, and that the Roku will shift to 1080p instead of 4k. So basically the "4k hand shake" failed, and it reverted to 1080p. Which bothered me some, but my wife is the primary audience for this particular TV and she literally couldn't care less about whether the TV is displaying a 4k image or a 1080p image...she just wants to watch her stories

I upgraded our home theater receiver to a Denon x3300w for $550 (thanks to wikibuy) and my 5040ub over a 35ft cable run pairs perfectly with it.
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post #6 of 32 Old 09-08-2017, 12:16 PM - Thread Starter
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HDCP DOES effect picture quality by virtue of signal passed

Quote:
Originally Posted by MinnesotaMan View Post
HDCP has nothing to do with image or PQ. It is the link between devices that is encrypting the signal to make it non breakable; i.e. protected. This was upgraded when it came to the 4k era.
that's not "quite" true and therein lies the confusion/problem. I did a BUNCH more research on this since the original post.

HDCP doers effect the image/PQ, in so much that if any link in the "source to sink" (in this case, that would be the TiVo/Roku - AVR - display) does not support HDCP 2.2, a 4k signal cannot be passed and the source will usually down-convert to 1080p, as you stated. So- the difference is a 1080p image vs. a 4k image.

just a few years ago, many of us spent the extra money to "future-proof" and buy "4k capable" AVRs (which were HDCP 2.0)- only to now have that equipment unable to actually pass a 4k signal.

YOu see, my AVR's specs show that it "passes a 4k signal" via PDCP 2.0, which AT THE TIME it was manufactured, was technically true. HOWEVER, with the advance to HDCP 2.2, that AVR (and ALL of the hardware manufactured in that "early adopter" period) is now "obsolete" since they cannot be upgraded to 2.2.

I feel like what this really represents is a "scam" by the industry to coerce people to have to upgrade their AVRs on a much faster cycle. My AVR is only 3-4 years old and works perfectly with this one exception and I would otherwise have no reason to replace it . (granted there are a few other new things, like Atmos, as well. but that's fairly minor).

The "justification" for this change was to appease the movie studios to "prevent" piracy- except we know that any legit pirate can easily obtain the codes to hack/break these methods. It's all really just BS to "pretend" things are protected (hell, look at what just happened to Equifax- cybersecurity is just a joke.
But it's a bit misleading, and even a little bit of bait and switch, ("here, upgrade to this new device, which really won't do what it says it will do by the time you get it") to pretend that this is all being done for some noble reason like copy-protection.

As you say, 1080p is probably "adequate" for 90% of what most folks watch anyway, since there is still not a lot of 4k content available (at least for streaming- which is pretty much my only option, for now, at least).

The only real "losers" here are all the early adopters and those buying high-end stuff, only to learn that much of it is obsolete even before it's out of the box.

Since the 5040 does not support true 4k, anyway, it seems pretty hard to justify spending $400-$1,500 for a new AVR just to watch one or two shows in faux-k HDR (although I have ceiling speakers that have just been waiting for Atmos/DTS:X which makes it pretty tempting.... once the wife gets over the cost of the new PJ)

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post #7 of 32 Old 09-08-2017, 12:31 PM
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Speaking of the TSA, am I the only one who finds it amusing that the bin right before the security gate where you dispose of your "liquids" under the presumption that they are a bomb or accelerant is a hilarious place to put said disposal? In other words if you're going to kill a bunch of people as a goal - take your bomb and dump it in the bin right where the huge security lines are.

Point taken about the difference between 1080p and 4k, of course they are a different resolution. When I think of PQ though, resolution doesn't come to mind I guess. Sharpness, contrast, color, etc. is what I think of. The 5040 displays 1080p content in superb fashion. So if you choose to decide to not upgrade your gear and go with 1080p sourcing, I really think you will be pleased none the less IMO.

Personally though I had a Yamaha VX373 similar to yours, it would pass 4k but it would not do 7.1 sound and it had the HDCP issue. These are things I fret over and spending $550 on a very capable receiver to remove that limitation AND get me 7.1 sound was worth it!
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post #8 of 32 Old 09-08-2017, 05:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrNorm View Post
Of course, then none of your menus or commands (e.g., volume level) from the AVR are visible -
Why not send the HDMI output of the AVR to the switch just like any other source ? Then the menus are visible, just not as an overlay on a different source.

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post #9 of 32 Old 09-08-2017, 05:33 PM
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Why didn't you get a projector like the Sony 45ES (which is an excellent 1080 projector by all account)?

Denon x4300h ........................................Denon x2400h
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post #10 of 32 Old 09-08-2017, 05:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamer View Post
Why not send the HDMI output of the AVR to the switch just like any other source ? Then the menus are visible, just not as an overlay on a different source.
that's certainly an option... just "adding more devices" only confuses the wife and guests even more. I do like seeing volume levels on screen but, your suggestion is certainly a workaround.

Another, and possibly much easier, workaround would be to have the source output video directly to the projector's HMDA1 input (both HDPC2.2) and the AVR output video to the HMDI2 input. It is easy to switch between the 2 inputs on the PJ.

Would have to get audio stream from source to AVR- not sure if using optical cable would work. I know I have seen this discussed.

It's still a "workaround" at best BUT it would be easy to leave it on the HDMI2 input (passing through AVR) for majority of use and switch to the "workaround" for those sources available in 4k.

As someone else said, Epson 5040 image is pretty great with just 1080p so may not even be worth the headache.

(although, I don't believe TiVo Bolt or Roku' have 2 HDMI outs so that would still require a HDPC2.2 switch!)
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post #11 of 32 Old 09-08-2017, 08:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MinnesotaMan View Post
Point taken about the difference between 1080p and 4k, of course they are a different resolution. When I think of PQ though, resolution doesn't come to mind I guess. Sharpness, contrast, color, etc. is what I think of. The 5040 displays 1080p content in superb fashion. So if you choose to decide to not upgrade your gear and go with 1080p sourcing, I really think you will be pleased none the less IMO.
that's a VERY valid distinction I hadn't considered. A bit of semantics but you are absolutely correct. thanks for putting it in those terms

Quote:
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Personally though I had a Yamaha VX373 similar to yours, it would pass 4k but it would not do 7.1 sound and it had the HDCP issue. These are things I fret over and spending $550 on a very capable receiver to remove that limitation AND get me 7.1 sound was worth it!
yes. and I may very well end up doing the same. need to let the wife get over the sticker shock of the new PJ, first. I actually installed speakers way up high for when something like Atmos/DTS:X would finally be released. Now I can perhaps finally use them.

since nearly all my source material will be 1080p, it's not critical to have the 4k signal- but would be nice to have it when it's available.
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post #12 of 32 Old 09-08-2017, 08:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ttn333 View Post
Why didn't you get a projector like the Sony 45ES (which is an excellent 1080 projector by all account)?
there are lots of good 1080p projectors? I have no idea what you mean by this question or how it would make any difference other than not even having the ability to accept a 4k signal?

In my case, the Epson 5040 (or the Epson 4000) were the only PJ's under $5,000 that would deliver a 100" dag image from 20' 1".
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post #13 of 32 Old 09-08-2017, 09:53 PM - Thread Starter
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just rec'd the projector and hooked it up - which only took about 5 minutes.

1080p source image from Amazon streaming, just out of the box with default settings, is just stunning...... (especially compared to my Sany0 Z-5 720p image) . viewing 100" diag image on Stewart screen projected from 20' (pretty close to max zoom- exactly as PC calculator predicted)

it's just astounding. Will certainly want to check out something from a 4k, HDR source. Even if I just by=pass the AVR for the test
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post #14 of 32 Old 09-09-2017, 07:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrNorm View Post
just rec'd the projector and hooked it up - which only took about 5 minutes.

1080p source image from Amazon streaming, just out of the box with default settings, is just stunning...... (especially compared to my Sany0 Z-5 720p image) . viewing 100" diag image on Stewart screen projected from 20' (pretty close to max zoom- exactly as PC calculator predicted)

it's just astounding. Will certainly want to check out something from a 4k, HDR source. Even if I just by=pass the AVR for the test

The Epson will still display a 4K image using your receiver, you just wont be able to get HDR out of it. I had to temporarily use my Denon X4000 which was not HDCP 2.2 while I was waiting to hook up my new receiver. I was able to get the Epson to display in 4K watching Amazon Prime and Gaming through my Xbox One S, just no HDR.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Juiced46 View Post
The Epson will still display a 4K image using your receiver, you just wont be able to get HDR out of it. I had to temporarily use my Denon X4000 which was not HDCP 2.2 while I was waiting to hook up my new receiver. I was able to get the Epson to display in 4K watching Amazon Prime and Gaming through my Xbox One S, just no HDR.
In this case, would the projector be receiving a 4k signal or would the projector be using 4k enhancement to upscale a 1080 signal?
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post #16 of 32 Old 09-09-2017, 09:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpj6st View Post
In this case, would the projector be receiving a 4k signal or would the projector be using 4k enhancement to upscale a 1080 signal?
The projector will be receiving a 4K signal. Best ways to tell are check the info screen on the projector and it will show the resolution in 4K. Also to further verify its a 4K signal, the "4K enhancement" setting in the projector will be greyed out. You cannot use 4K enhancement with a 4K signal.
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post #17 of 32 Old 09-09-2017, 11:24 AM - Thread Starter
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The Juice is loose!

Juiced46- you da bomb. THAT was the question I was really asking from the very start.....

Now that I actually have the projector, I had planned to do exactly as you suggested- find a 4k source and then check the info screen in the projector to see what it is receiving.

I will say that on the "video settings" screen for the Tivo, it does show that 4k @24hz is "supported" but that 4k @30/60Hz is "not supported". I believe the Bolt gets this info by looking for the HDCP handshake from all downstream components (i.e., thru the AVR and to the display). So, my AVR is indeed capable of passing a 4k/30Hz signal but not HDR.

Given that many folks in tis forum have commented that an HDR image from 5040 is not "significantly" better (and many don't care for it) it may very well just not be worth the extra hassle and expense? (I seem to recall that many of the reasons I saw given seemed to be that the brightness is still just lacking in the HDR settings - other than perhaps HDR1- from this mid-price, faux-k projector to really take advantage of this extra color info and dynamic range). (i.e., The 5040 may be the top of the line BMW- a damn nice car- but it is still not a Ferrari).

In the end, you still get what you pay for and the Epson is a killer value but still not the equal of a $10,000+ projector. BUt a GREAT daily driver.

Now, it's my turn to experiment and see for myself.
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post #18 of 32 Old 09-09-2017, 11:44 AM - Thread Starter
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I may have spoken too soon

trying to reconcile what Juiced46 said above with the info from the Netflix website

per the Netflix website"
If you have an Ultra HD 4K-supported TV, device, and plan but still aren't seeing titles with the Ultra HD icon, there may be an issue with your device's connection to your TV. To resolve this issue, connect your device directly to your TV. You can do this by unplugging the device's HDMI cable from any receivers or stereo equipment and plugging it into your TV. If your device is already directly connected to your TV, try using another HDMI port. Please note that both the HDMI cable and the HDMI port on your TV must be HDCP 2.2 certified. Consult your TV's user manual or your device manufacturer for more information.

So, if the AVR is not HDCP 2.2, you simply won't get a 4k signal to pass. True, it is "capable", and as I just said above, even my TiVo shows that it is "capable" of passing a 4k/30Hz signal, but without HDCP, it simply won't happen because what is AVAILABLE is 4k/60Hz and requires HDCP 2.2. So, you can, in theory, pass a 4k signal but without HDCP 2.2 on all devices, Amazon/Netflix won't provide any 4k/UHD content.

I think what is confusing here are terms UHD vs. HDR

I DOES appear that the 5040 actually benefits from receiving a 4k/60Hz signal in that it disables the "4k enhancement" implying that it is indeed making use of those "extra" pixels (just not all 4k of them)
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post #19 of 32 Old 09-10-2017, 11:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrNorm View Post
trying to reconcile what Juiced46 said above with the info from the Netflix website

per the Netflix website"
If you have an Ultra HD 4K-supported TV, device, and plan but still aren't seeing titles with the Ultra HD icon, there may be an issue with your device's connection to your TV. To resolve this issue, connect your device directly to your TV. You can do this by unplugging the device's HDMI cable from any receivers or stereo equipment and plugging it into your TV. If your device is already directly connected to your TV, try using another HDMI port. Please note that both the HDMI cable and the HDMI port on your TV must be HDCP 2.2 certified. Consult your TV's user manual or your device manufacturer for more information.

So, if the AVR is not HDCP 2.2, you simply won't get a 4k signal to pass. True, it is "capable", and as I just said above, even my TiVo shows that it is "capable" of passing a 4k/30Hz signal, but without HDCP, it simply won't happen because what is AVAILABLE is 4k/60Hz and requires HDCP 2.2. So, you can, in theory, pass a 4k signal but without HDCP 2.2 on all devices, Amazon/Netflix won't provide any 4k/UHD content.

I think what is confusing here are terms UHD vs. HDR

I DOES appear that the 5040 actually benefits from receiving a 4k/60Hz signal in that it disables the "4k enhancement" implying that it is indeed making use of those "extra" pixels (just not all 4k of them)
It may be device related and how that device sends the signal or based on the app that is being used for it. I know I got it to work, but that receiver is now packed up in a box so I cannot go back and try it again.

Ideally purchasing an HDCP 2.2 capable receiver would be the best bet.
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post #20 of 32 Old 09-11-2017, 01:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Juiced46 View Post
Ideally purchasing an HDCP 2.2 capable receiver would be the best bet.
That's what I did And yes given my failures for the handshake to work with my Roku+ Pre. on my 4k TV with a non 2.2 port and downgrading the source to 1080p...I went with the Denon x3300w.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MinnesotaMan View Post
That's what I did And yes given my failures for the handshake to work with my Roku+ Pre. on my 4k TV with a non 2.2 port and downgrading the source to 1080p...I went with the Denon x3300w.
I did the same, I was originally going to keep my Denon X4000 when I got the 5040UB, but when the X4300H went on sale I jumped on it. Very happy I did. If you are going to do 4K, might as well do it right. Most people are into the projector alone for $2500ish+, buying a receiver to handle HDR etc should not break the bank especially since some decent ones that can do it can be had for pretty cheap.
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post #22 of 32 Old 09-12-2017, 01:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Juiced46 View Post
I did the same, I was originally going to keep my Denon X4000 when I got the 5040UB, but when the X4300H went on sale I jumped on it. Very happy I did. If you are going to do 4K, might as well do it right. Most people are into the projector alone for $2500ish+, buying a receiver to handle HDR etc should not break the bank especially since some decent ones that can do it can be had for pretty cheap.
True- I found a perfectly capable yamaha @ Costco yesterday which is basically an exact upgrade of the model I currently own (RX-V773) but with HDCP 2.2 and Atmos/DTS:X.

"for me" spending $500 for a new AVR is just not worth it when I can bypass the AVR from Bolt to display for video and run optical to from Bolt to AVR. Of course, that limits 4k content source only to the Bolt but that is my only 4k source, anyway. Also, very little streaming content currently with Atmos/DTS:X encoding. I have no intention of getting a 4k DVD player (as I have no access to 4k DVDs) and 99.9% of my use is DVR or streaming from Bolt.

"for me" this is a very workable and acceptable compromise. I can upgrade the AVR when it is time to replace. as always, YMMV.
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post #23 of 32 Old 09-18-2017, 11:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrNorm View Post

My AVR is a Yamaha RX-V773

Do I need to upgrade my AVR to get the "best" image on this new PJ when viewing 4k sources?

As I said, with appropriate source, the Bolt outputs a 4k signal, the AVR "passes" a 4k signal and Epson accepts the 4k signal but only uses 1080+ (2k?) of that signal?

BUT, the crux is- is all of that Moot with the inability of RX-V773 to support HDCP 2.2 which means any 4k signal will be blocked?

It's certainly hard to keep up with the "weakest link" issue and having to buy all new hardware every few years due to hardware limits to upgradability with things like HDCP 2.2 which require every component in the chain to be compatible.
I'm very sorry that all of this is so confusing. It shouldn't be, but it is. Your AVR is pretty far behind the times, 4K-wise.
The first 4K products were based on HDMI 1.4 with HDCP 1.4. They supported 4K24~30

The next 4K products added HDCP 2.2 support. Still limited to 4K30

The third generation was very similar, and added 4K60 support, but with only 4:2:0 chroma sub-sampling. In other words, these devices had the same 9Gbps HDMI 1.4 technology, with HDCP 2.2. These were "technically" HDMI 2.0 compatible, and they could be labeled as 4K60 devices. In 4K24~30 mode, the HDMI could transmit using 4:2:2 color at 8, 10, and 12-bit color, and 4:4;4/RGB using 8-bit color. This can provide 100% no-compromise film with HDR. The reason it's "no compromise" is that even the best video content is compressed down to 4:2:0 chroma, so the 4:2:2 imparts zero quality loss, except maybe on graphic overlays like menus, etc.

Next came devices with HDMI 2.0 18Gbps. These devices could do true 4K60 RGB. These devices could support not just 4K60 with RGB, but also 4K60 with 10-bit and 12-bit color.

The 10-bit and 12-bit color modes are necessary for HDR. That's the important thing; particularly 10-bit.

It is absolutely correct that lacking HDCP 2.2 will reduce quality; most Source devices will not output 4K content if HDCP 2.2 is unavailable, and they will likely downscale to 1080p. So... yes, you want HDCP 2.2 for the best quality.

When you upgrade to an 18 Gbps HDMI 2.0 system, care must be taken with the HDMI cables. They will work just fine until the system transmits in the 18 Gbps mode... and then, the cables may fail, giving sparkles or no image at all. Don't be surprised if this happens; it just means your cables aren't fast enough for that mode (but they won't catch on fire or cause any damage).

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post #24 of 32 Old 09-19-2017, 12:36 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm very sorry that all of this is so confusing. It shouldn't be, but it is.
thanks for the explanation. "Complicated" has always been the way it's been for early adopters. (e.g., when I finally replaced my HD-DVD player with a BD player- I bet on the wrong horse. I don't think I ever bought any Betamax tapes but my father had a massive collection of laser disks!!)

For the time being, I have bypassed my AVR for video am using the optical output to AVR for audio. Seems to be working just fine. I actually purchased a new AVR and streaming box and then decided that it wasn't worth spending the over $500 "just" to add Dolby Atmos capability (which is really all that was new). The only sacrifice I have to make is that I can have only a single HDCP 2.2 video source, as the projector has only 1 HDCP 2.2 compliant input port. It limits me... but not critically nor enough to require I replace the AVR right now.
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I'm very sorry that all of this is so confusing. It shouldn't be, but it is.

For the time being, I have bypassed my AVR for video am using the optical output to AVR for audio. Seems to be working just fine.
You won't get high bitrate audio with TOSLINK. If your TV and AVR have HDMI-ARC, you ought to try it. It works better than optical.
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You won't get high bitrate audio with TOSLINK. If your TV and AVR have HDMI-ARC, you ought to try it. It works better than optical.
the issue here is watching 4k content but having an AVR that is not HDCP 2.2 compliant. That either means by-passing the AVR with the video signal (and relying on TOSLINK optical for audio) or buying a new AVR. I completely understand the limitations of TOSLINK- but it's a workaround.
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the issue here is watching 4k content but having an AVR that is not HDCP 2.2 compliant. That either means by-passing the AVR with the video signal (and relying on TOSLINK optical for audio) or buying a new AVR. I completely understand the limitations of TOSLINK- but it's a workaround.
All I said was, "if your AVR and TV support HDMI-ARC, you should try it."

HDMI-ARC is better than TOSLINK because: TOSLINK is only a 1-way link. That means:

1) The TV does not know whether the amplifier is receiving an audio signal or not. So the TV can't auto-mute its speaker when the amp is in use. With ARC, the TV knows if the amp is receiving or not.
2) The TV cannot identify the audio formats which the amp can receive. So AT BEST, the TV will send Dolby Digital compressed and stereo audio only. Never anything better. But with ARC, the TV can identify the formats supported by the amp, so formats such as Dolby Digital Plus and DTS can be sent as well.
3) TOSLINK has no lipsync correction method. ARC does, although it isn't always implemented.
4) ARC can work alongside HDMI-CEC, so that powering your TV on and off will automatically power the audio device, and pressing Volume UP/DOWN/MUTE will send those control signals to the amp. With TOSLINK, you need two cables to do this.

If you have HDMI-ARC on your TV and amp, I recommend that you use an HDMI with Ethernet cable to make the connection. This provides shielding around the ARC pins which can improve signal quality.
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post #28 of 32 Old 09-21-2017, 02:31 PM - Thread Starter
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All I said was, "if your AVR and TV support HDMI-ARC, you should try it."
sorry for misunderstanding. You were absolutely correct.. TOSLINK as limitations with regards to audio formats supported.

What I may have neglected to say was that I am not using a TV. I have a projector, so that makes HDMI-ARC less of an issue.

the issue for me is getting the video signal FROM my source device (in this case, a TiVo Bolt. HDCP 2.2 compliant. I could also use a Roku Ultra)) to my projector (HDCP 2.2 compliant) by by-passing the AVR (only HDCP 2.0). Audio is then sent from source to AVR via TOSLINK. (My AVR does have lip-synch compensation, but I have not needed it. I believe the PJ may also have it - one is used if audio lags, the other is used if video lags.)

so far, this has worked perfectly. My AVR has DD 5.1 so audio is fine. It doesn't support Atmos/DTS:X so the fact that TOSLINK won't transfer those formats is not relevant. If/when I do upgrade the AVR, then I would use HDMI for all data, so those newer formats would be managed.

Also, use of a universal remote makes the ARC info "less needed" since I have other ways to perform the same functions than an ARC would be used for.

I appreciate your review of the format changes. My AVR is "only" 4 or 5 years old.... which is "4 generations ago, already" based on the emerging standards. THAT is part of the reason I am willing to use a "workaround" for as long as possible. I don't want to upgrade and replace a perfectly good AVR with a new one, only to find that in a year, that "new one" is just as obsolete. I might as well get as much life as I can out of what I have. However, short of "money is no object," there will always be compromises. I'm just trying to spend "intelligently". Since there is not that much Atmos source material and I have a viable workaround for the video side of it, I figure i might as well waiting as long as possible to upgrade. (or, I might just say, "screw it"!!!) I'm just frustrated with stuff that becomes functionally obsolete in 1-2 years due to changes in "standards". But that's their business model, isn't it?

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post #29 of 32 Old 09-21-2017, 02:54 PM
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It's certainly hard to keep up with the "weakest link" issue and having to buy all new hardware every few years due to hardware limits to upgradability with things like HDCP 2.2 which require every component in the chain to be compatible.
The upcoming HDMI Enhanced Audio Return Channel (eARC) feature is intended to fix this once and for all.
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The upcoming HDMI Enhanced Audio Return Channel (eARC) feature is intended to fix this once and for all.
promises, promises......

there will always be SOME new problem/incapability to keep us busy
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