The 1st Official Infocus 4805 Thread - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 17985 Old 06-19-2004, 10:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by theBlaze74
Translation: Make sure you peons down here at the cheap end of the spectrum don't get too excited about your pathetic little projectors.
I don't think that was meant at all. I think what was meant is exactly what he said.. that some people are apparently expecting too much. The SP4805 is probably a great projector for the money, but let's not get ridiculous with the hype or expectations. Like the guy who expects it to perform like a PJ worth 10's of thousands of dollars. Or to have PQ comparable to a CRT.

That it apparently compares favorably with a highly-acclaimed projector like the Z2 (a PJ with more resolution and double the MSRP) says a lot for the SP4805. And if this is your first PJ then you will almost certainly be justifiably blown away by it. But when you compare it to the whole range of projectors that are available, the SP4805 is bound to have its shortcomings in resolution and other areas.

The old PJ pros will be comparing it to other PJs they they've seen and will be more reserved and critical in their comments, and the first time owners will be comparing it to... well... they really have nothing to compare it to and will probably be very enthusiastic. So just read, evaluate and enjoy the various comments, criticism and praises with that perspective.
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post #92 of 17985 Old 06-19-2004, 10:05 AM
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theBlaze74,

Time for some more hype since you asked. There is a reason some of the initial purchasers have been X1 upgraders. The differences between the SP4805 and the X2 are night & day compared to the kissing cousins that the X1/SP4800 were.

You get the new high contrast, less screen door DarkChip2 chipset (the 480P version of the HD2+ DMD) - the X1/X2 are the older 4:3 chipsets.

This DarkChip2 has resolution that is native widescreen DVD resolution - no more cropping/scaling to fit your DVD onto a SVGA presentation chip.

You get a RGBRGB color wheel that is optimized for saturated HT colors at the D65 Hollywood standard - no more blown out whites, weak colors and rainbows from the X1/X2 RGBW colorwheel.

You get a 12v trigger for your drop screen.

You get the latest Faroudja chip that has been dropped in the X2.

You get an actual selectable component input that accepts worldwide interlaced/progressive formats rather than the adaptor on the VGA/SVideo port of the X1

You get DVI/HDCP for your PC/SAT/CABLE/DVD players for a pure digital signal path (allowing you to watch Hollywoods copyprotected movies)

You get a backlit home theater remote with aspect/source/preset adjustments on it - instead of a remote suited for presentation.

The specified lumens of 750 and contrast of 2200:1 are at D65 optimized home theater mode, the X1 in this mode was about 400 lumens and 800:1 contrast.

To sum up - the excitement about the SP4805 is because it is the only widescreen DLP that has been optimized for DVD home theater. Based on the Denver shootout results - it compares quiet well on DVD with its older SP7205 sibling at 6x the price as long as you sit back twice the screen width. You could put one in every room of your house for that price!


I would disagree with those that think LCD front projectors are as good as a directview CRT. I stand by my statement that only the $20K ultra high end forum can compete - you are not going to find it here or even in the under $20K forum. (Or has the Sony G90 price been lowered since the Qualia came out?)
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post #93 of 17985 Old 06-19-2004, 10:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by jgvp
On Page 11:-

"I got the SP4805 last nite and watched it for 5 hours.

My viewing distance is 14' and SP4805 ceiling mount above my head.

Under my eyes here is my though:

HDTV: connected to my digital cable timewarner via component. The picture was soft and the color is not vivid, it seem like it was missing something. I loved the HD picture on the Z2. (I like the sharpness and vivid color). Plus I have the dalite high power 106" screen so for HD viewing, the image rather suffer on the sp4805."

I am presently viewing on a Sony GWII, so the PQ has to be comparable or better to persuade me to change just for the sake of increased screen size.
The guy who wrote this is barely literate and he is comparing a higher res projector to a EDTV 4805. I wouldn't put any merit in his opinion, if you read the message, it really doesn't make any sense, and it is contrary to all opinions posted by knowledgeable viewers that had seen it. It's just one opinion, it shouldn't effect your buying decision. Are you sure you even realize this PJ isn't HD?
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post #94 of 17985 Old 06-19-2004, 10:30 AM
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Krasmusic: "Martin, and are you asking so you can put a $1500 power cord on your $1500 digital projector?"
____________________________________

Kras, you've almost got my number there, :) I would probably run a much shorter length Harmonic Technology or Acoustic Zen power cord (under $125) or a PS Audio pc. On occasion I've noticed less "white hash" screen noise when a power cord is upgraded.
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post #95 of 17985 Old 06-19-2004, 10:31 AM
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I agree 100% with krasmuzik comments/analysis of the SP4805 vs the older X1/4800.

Anyone who thinks this player has only a marginal upgarded featureset has not done their homework.

The Moderno Theatre! Slideshow (here, and here!)
Pixar screenplay slideshows here!
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post #96 of 17985 Old 06-19-2004, 10:32 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Translation: Make sure you peons down here at the cheap end of the spectrum don't get too excited about your pathetic little projectors.
It was not meant that way at all. :rolleyes:
I happen to be one of those "peons" with a <$3500.00 projector.


Quote:
I don't think that was meant at all. I think what was meant is exactly what he said.. that some people are apparently expecting too much. The SP4805 is probably a great projector for the money, but let's not get ridiculous with the hype or expectations. Like the guy who expects it to perform like a PJ worth 10's of thousands of dollars. Or to have PQ comparable to a CRT.
Exactly... well said Mike!


Quote:
In answer to that question "would you expect a $1500 proj to look like a $5000 unit?". No, but I wouldn't be surprised if a $1500 projector of next year looked as good or better than a $5000 projector of today.
I would! I doubt that the 4805 looks better than the HT1000 of last year...

Technology is moving fast, but not that fast.
All I'm trying to say is exactly what Technut Canada (Mike) said above.

"Good... Bad... I'm the guy with the gun."

Ash - Army of Darkness
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post #97 of 17985 Old 06-19-2004, 10:34 AM
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You guys are analysing this all the wrong way. If you can find another PJ in the $1500 price range, that has better PQ and better features, then you have an argument.

The Moderno Theatre! Slideshow (here, and here!)
Pixar screenplay slideshows here!
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post #98 of 17985 Old 06-19-2004, 10:37 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
You guys are analysing this all the wrong way. If you can find another PJ in the $1500 price range, that has better PQ and better features, then you have an argument.
Exactly! That is all that should be expected.
I'm sure that the 4805 has no problem doing just that.

"Good... Bad... I'm the guy with the gun."

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post #99 of 17985 Old 06-19-2004, 11:13 AM
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I will say I have only one gripe about the 4805 vs the X1. The X1 had more vertical lines of resolution available for 4:3 content. Namely 4:3 console gaming. I think I will be suffering of lower PQ when playin 4:3 PS2 titles. Although Widescreen PS2 titles will be a treat.

Any thoughts about this?

The Moderno Theatre! Slideshow (here, and here!)
Pixar screenplay slideshows here!
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post #100 of 17985 Old 06-19-2004, 11:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kamus
jgvp, you don't _need_ to spend tens of thousands, fact is a REAL HD HD2 projector can be had for under 4k (not hd2+), while it doesn't have inredibly good contrast, it's pretty damn good, and you get more than 2x the pixels the 4805 has... or if you really want great contrast (same resolution as and hd2 though) you can go get yourself a sharp 12k for about 10 grand. but lets recap here... if you want PQ comparable to your sony GW2, then it gets a whole lot easier.. get a Z2 or an AE500, and if you really want allmost identical PQ just go get the sony HS20 for about 2.5k. (i think it should actually be better)

i'm still sure a lot of people will be very happy with this, it's just not for evryone.
Thanks, Kamus, we seem to be of the same ilk. I was seriously thinking about the Sony HS20 until I came across the impending introduction of the 4805 way back. Now I know one has to become quite conversant with the finer details before one can accurately compare a product's specifications to others. I did think at first that the pixel count of the 4805 was low to be able to achieve a high PQ. With the mandated inexorable march towards total HDTV, picture quality resolution is, IMO, the new name of the game, but like everything else there's a premium to pay. The same old story, champagne taste on a beer annuity ! :rolleyes:
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post #101 of 17985 Old 06-19-2004, 11:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by technut Canada
Huh??!

Did I miss something in their literature somewhere? Because I've read most of it and I've never seen a claim even remotely resembling your statement!
Yes you certainly did !

http://www.infocushome.com/amer/eng/...ed/passion.asp
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post #102 of 17985 Old 06-19-2004, 12:06 PM
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I'm pretty sure I'm going to sell my BenQ 6200, and I'm pretty sure I'll at least do an in home trial of the 4805 and compare it to my X1. Does anyone know if Sony has a similar program to "try InFocus"? I'm interested to see what the next step up (the HS20?) looks like.
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post #103 of 17985 Old 06-19-2004, 12:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by jgvp
Yes you certainly did !

http://www.infocushome.com/amer/eng/...ed/passion.asp
I disagree that InFocus's statement about the ScreenPlay line:
Quote:
From InFocus
With ScreenPlay's award-winning image quality, you may believe you bought a system worth tens-of-thousands of dollars.
Is the same as what you claimed they said here:
Quote:
Originally posted by jgvp
What I'm concerned about now is the fact that Infocus claimed the PQ of the 4805 would make you believe you had bought a projector that cost you tens of thousands of dollars.
The twists are only a few words, but they are important one's IMO.

--Darin

This is the AV Science Forum. Please don't be gullible and please do remember the saying, "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."
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post #104 of 17985 Old 06-19-2004, 01:07 PM
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kraz

I stick by what I said about HD Programming available at a given hour. 2-4 years. Cable commands the largest market share of TV delivery and its going to take at least that long to get the network digital upgrade complete...thats their first priority.

HD is nice, when you can get it, but I am not going to watch Indian basketweaving for 3 hours just because its in HDTV (ok we did during our HDTV X1 demo..but that was just that one time:) and it looked great ...on an X1).

Its not just a hobby, its a 401K reduction plan.
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post #105 of 17985 Old 06-19-2004, 01:36 PM
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An FYI for those folks doing a ceiling mount: Plan on shifting your dead center 2.5 inches to the right to compensate for horizontal lens placement.
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post #106 of 17985 Old 06-19-2004, 01:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by jgvp
Yes you certainly did !

http://www.infocushome.com/amer/eng/...ed/passion.asp

Oh come on! That's just typical advertising. It said you may think that, and you may. To most casual users they probably won't see a big difference between the 4805 and a HD2+ PJ. Anyway, you are reading the add wrong. It said the screenplay line will make you think that. And I believe their are models in the screenplay line that are comparible to models costing over 10K. It never said anything about the 4805 in that add. So technut was right and you were wrong. I have to say someone is pretty dumb anyway if they take seriously advertisements. I would need about every product on the market in my house if that was the case.
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post #107 of 17985 Old 06-19-2004, 02:06 PM
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I want to go ahead and get my DVI cable for my 4805, would this cable from pacific cable be the correct one for the 4805 DVI connection.


DVIPDD-5 5 Meter DVI-D Male To P&D (M1DA) Male Single Link Digital Cable



Dennis
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post #108 of 17985 Old 06-19-2004, 02:25 PM
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dmcdayton,

I agree with you - mandarax was championing the widespread HDTV - wrong guy here! And I was one of the first to buy a RCADTC-100 HDTV receiver - just nothing on that I want to watch.

Though I do know some locals who have gigabit ethernet and raid servers so they can tape anything that is HD - I am all about hollywood movies in HD. Be a long time before I replace my DVD library for that - how many times do I have to buy StarWars anyways (Anyone what a THX VHS version of the original trilogy?) But I have to admit the WMV9 I have seen looks purty and I have not watched on the SP7205 yet - just the SP5700!

acksnay,

good catch on the horizontal lens offset - the install diagram is page two of the spreadsheet though it gives mm rather than inches for some reason.


gnolivos,

You are not losing any source resolution with the 640x480 4:3 area of the panel - as it matches the bandwidth limits of 4:3 NTSC signal over component (even PS2). What you are losing is the ability to sit closer or have the larger screen as you would with the 800x600 display. If fullscreen gaming is more important than widescreen DVD - then something to consider. Though one should look at Optoma H30 or Infocus X2 before you buy the X1 I think for price value.
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post #109 of 17985 Old 06-19-2004, 02:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by dgeorgatos
I want to go ahead and get my DVI cable for my 4805, would this cable from pacific cable be the correct one for the 4805 DVI connection.

DVIPDD-5 5 Meter DVI-D Male To P&D (M1DA) Male Single Link Digital Cable

Dennis
You can find the infocus cable:
SP-M1-10M
which is 10 meters for a very good price if you shop around!
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post #110 of 17985 Old 06-19-2004, 02:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by rsmith4321
Oh come on! That's just typical advertising. It said you may think that, and you may. To most casual users they probably won't see a big difference between the 4805 and a HD2+ PJ. Anyway, you are reading the add wrong. It said the screenplay line will make you think that. And I believe their are models in the screenplay line that are comparible to models costing over 10K. It never said anything about the 4805 in that add. So technut was right and you were wrong. I have to say someone is pretty dumb anyway if they take seriously advertisements. I would need about every product on the market in my house if that was the case.

Why do you have to be so ignorant as to call someone, who interprets something differently than your interpretation, dumb ? Isn't there just the slightest chance that your interpretation could be wrong ? Or do you run the risk of being run down by a motorboat while walking to work each morning ? For what it's worth, the ad' didn't say "it will make you think that", it specifically says "you may believe". There is a distinct difference. Vagueness, ambiguity and semantics are the tools of the trade of all living advertising copywriters, and more so today than ever !

That page is reached via the Entertainment models page, on which there are only two models displayed, the 4805 and the 4800, so the comment had to be referring to both of them ( as well as the models in the Theatre and Cinema categories of their ScreenPlay line.)

As it is, I'm not one for taking any advertisements (ads) seriously, since I wasn't gullibly accepting their claim. I shall make any decision to acquire a 4805 or not after having actually seen a 4805 perform with all the program material made available.
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post #111 of 17985 Old 06-19-2004, 02:56 PM
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6 days later ...

Excellent source content looks positively 3D on the 4805 (Fifth Element, Pixar, Lucas) and the viewing experience has that wow! IMMERSIVE nature of watching a movie. Lesser sources though have me looking 3 years down the road for an upgrade to true HD (1080p).

Have upgraded from purple wall to komatex foamcore and nielsen frame. >1 gain screen gives me a headache. Next is a High Contrast Da-Mat (0.8 gain) velcro'd to the foamcore. My screen size is "only" 82 diagonal due to available wall space. I could not imagine using a high gain screen unless you had a whopping big screen or enjoy headaches.

Have never seen a rainbow. SDE is non-existant from any reasonable viewing distance. Daytime ambient light (if indirect) still allows for a good casual watch.

Purchased a zektor hds4 4-to-1 component audio/video switch to manage the madness. Also have a kameleon 6-in-1 programmable remote on the way.

TESTIMONIAL: The Mandarax Mount rocks! Thank you Robert for a great looking, inexpensive, easy to install wall mount for the 4805. Get yurs here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...=ceiling+mount

Love this machine!
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post #112 of 17985 Old 06-19-2004, 03:14 PM
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I predict the 4805 will be on PC's highly recommended list in short order. Enough said. But can it topple the H30?
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post #113 of 17985 Old 06-19-2004, 03:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by soundtrackman
Amen, Steve.

What I'm looking for here are comments by the lucky gentlemen who already have their 4805's - and many, many thanks to the fellows like JeffKB who have already taken the time to write up their much-appreciated reviews. I hope to be among the next wave, whenever that happens (':rolleyes:'). I'm hoping to get info on setup recommendations (are the defaults fine, or are you guys doing 'tweeking?'), is the offset as expected (27% or so), things like that.
Just a few observations and answers.

The offset was as expected, I had my 106" Da-Lite screen before I got the 4805 and had it already mounted using the offset math, I only had to raise the screen less then an inch to get it centered.

I haven't been doing any tweaking at all, the defaults (It defaults to FILM) have been serving my fine for the 4 days I have had the pj. I have watched Master and Commander, Superman, Field of Dreams and LOTR3 all the way through and loved every minute of it.

PS2 and Gamucube both look fine.

The Comcast cable guy came today so I have only a couple hours with HD it looks good to me.

As stated by others I don't see any rainbows and SDE.

The remote is great I can easily get to everything. Though the source 1 key is the M1 then the source 2 key is S-Video 1, etc., so it is a bit confusing at first to get to the right source. the Auto-Source thing drives me nuts so I do it by hand.

I can't think of a single caveat about the setup. It was quite smooth, no problems to speak of.

The horizontal and vertical postion options in the menu work good to fine tune everything.

This is my first pj, but a friend of mine had an Infocus business one he uses at home, not the X1 it is the 530 I have spent time with his setup and so use that as my comparison.
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post #114 of 17985 Old 06-19-2004, 03:44 PM
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It seems to me that if some HD looks great and others quite less so, then the "soft" issue may be less the projector and more the transfer process. I'm also of the opinion that the DCDi anti-aliasing will take marginal content and soften it over the line. I'd like to see an option in future firmware to selectively disable the anti-aliasing where warranted.

In a true HD projector it probably wouldn't matter.

Just saw a 2 minute preview for Spidey 2 on HDNET ... very crisp! So I guess like everything in life, HD quality ranges from superb to awful.
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post #115 of 17985 Old 06-19-2004, 03:47 PM
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"1 gain screen gives me a headache"

Head out to the camera store and get a ND filter.

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post #116 of 17985 Old 06-19-2004, 03:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by guitarman
"1 gain screen gives me a headache"

Head out to the camera store and get a ND filter.
You recommend staying with a 1.0 to 1.4 gain screen with ND filter then removing the filter when lamp light starts dimming?

Conversely, would a 0.8 gain grey screen be too dim in the 2000th+ hour?

====

Gotta say it again ... HDnet (1080i) looks fantastic on the 4805! But I've got to turn away so I don't get to watching mediocre content just because it looks great. lol
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post #117 of 17985 Old 06-19-2004, 04:30 PM
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That's Krases recommendation. I figured the .08 Dalite would be the best guy for the 4805. He says the lamp dims by 50% but I've put 3/4 of the bulb life on an HT1000 and it still seemed bright.

I still bet the .08 would work great. Even after the 2,000 mark.

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post #118 of 17985 Old 06-19-2004, 04:45 PM
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Sorry kraz about the mix-up it was Mdrax.

Really struggling with putting it on a table top...I was so sure it would mount on the boxed in air vent at 7'2"...

Its not just a hobby, its a 401K reduction plan.
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post #119 of 17985 Old 06-19-2004, 06:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by guitarman
That's Krases recommendation. I figured the .08 Dalite would be the best guy for the 4805. He says the lamp dims by 50% but I've put 3/4 of the bulb life on an HT1000 and it still seemed bright.

I still bet the .08 would work great. Even after the 2,000 mark.
I know the Carada Gray is probably lower than that Da-Lite, although the 0.8 Da-Lite might not be 0.8 based on some other measurements, but how about a Carada screen with both the Gray and the Bright White materials? Then switch the materials at some point. Okay, maybe buying a new bulb makes more economic sense if it is only once, but for the long run the 2 screen materials might work well. I would only suggest this with screen sizes that aren't too large so that you can start with the gray though.

I just realized that I have a 70" wide Carada screen with these 2 materials that I don't use, but I'm not planning on buying a 4805.

--Darin

This is the AV Science Forum. Please don't be gullible and please do remember the saying, "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."
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post #120 of 17985 Old 06-19-2004, 06:20 PM
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Actually the 50% number comes from Bob Williams - it is an ANSI method of lamp life measurement.

Another Carada screen would be a magnitude larger expenditure than a ND2 filter, acksnay - take little heed of budget advice from darinp2 - he is on what number projector and screen combo this year alone?

The Da-Lite 0.8 gain High Contrast Da-Matte grey screen will get you exactly 12ftL in the 2000th hour, and you can use a ND2 initially until it gets too dim.

You are way too bright for reference movie screen otherwise. Some people like the large plasma TV look - but I think because a screen occupies more of your vision it hurts your eyes if too bright. I have the same problem with bright sunlight!
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Closed Thread Digital Projectors - Under $3,000 USD MSRP

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