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post #91 of 102 Old 07-03-2004, 08:07 PM
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I can't find the Paris Hilton thread. Please PM me a link.

As far as the topic. Tonight a good friend was at Best Buy. He had some kind of $200 bonus credit after buying an electric range and he and his wife were going to use it towards a projector purchase. He knew about the X1 and that's what he was going to buy but the salesman was trying to switch him to an Optoma 732. He called me on his cell phone to ask which he should buy. I told him neither. I told him I was not up on the lower priced projectors anymore but I did remember that the H30 was what everybody here was raving about. So while he's got me on the phone he asked the salesman to check the BB website to see if they had it and the salesman said they do not and was still trying to close a deal on the 732. I told him to leave the store without buying and let me do some checking to see if that thing's any good for home theater.
So BB lost a sale because of me butting in. Did I break the rules?
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post #92 of 102 Old 07-03-2004, 08:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by RobertWood
I can't find the Paris Hilton thread. Please PM me a link.

As far as the topic. Tonight a good friend was at Best Buy. He had some kind of $200 bonus credit after buying an electric range and he and his wife were going to use it towards a projector purchase. He knew about the X1 and that's what he was going to buy but the salesman was trying to switch him to an Optoma 732. He called me on his cell phone to ask which he should buy. I told him neither. I told him I was not up on the lower priced projectors anymore but I did remember that the H30 was what everybody here was raving about. So while he's got me on the phone he asked the salesman to check the BB website to see if they had it and the salesman said they do not and was still trying to close a deal on the 732. I told him to leave the store without buying and let me do some checking to see if that thing's any good for home theater.
So BB lost a sale because of me butting in. Did I break the rules?
No your friend was smart enough to call you first and you didn't butt in because your opinion was requested. I don't know anything about the 732 but at least 3 people like it over at PC-
http://www.projectorcentral.com/Opto...er-reviews.htm
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post #93 of 102 Old 07-03-2004, 08:22 PM
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I saw that too. Those three really liked it apparently. But I can't find anything about it on this forum when I search. Do you know which color wheel it has? I'm guessing that it probably performs like a BenQ 6100 except a 2x rather than 3x color wheel. If so then it's probably a bright rainbowy picture wouldn't you think?
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post #94 of 102 Old 07-03-2004, 08:36 PM
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Originally posted by PAP


Ultimately we should be able to accept these differences without being hostile towards one another, the extremes excluded.


Cheers.

"the extremes excluded" ...... Is there a petition to sign where we can get them excluded from the human race?

JK!;) :p
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post #95 of 102 Old 07-03-2004, 09:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by RobertWood
I saw that too. Those three really liked it apparently. But I can't find anything about it on this forum when I search. Do you know which color wheel it has? I'm guessing that it probably performs like a BenQ 6100 except a 2x rather than 3x color wheel. If so then it's probably a bright rainbowy picture wouldn't you think?
If he is intent on using his 200 credit toward a projector it is worth a try as long as he can return it if the rainbows are a problem. The BB website says there is a 100 rebate as well on the projector so the price is competitive. I think you are right that the H30 would be preferable if he can use his $200 on something else. The Infocus 4805 seems like a really good deal because I think it is the only low priced projector that has a 6 segment color wheel and DVI-HDCP.
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post #96 of 102 Old 07-04-2004, 03:29 AM
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Originally posted by Ericbres
it is begining to sound like some people care more about their egos being stroked and "screw the corporate monster with cash lining his pockets" than simple right and wrong.
It's beginning to sound like the corporate shills have arrived.

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You want to educate the masses? God bless you ... just don't do it at the expense of someone trying to do business on their OWN property.
I don't think this is about "educating the masses." I think this is about trying to prevent people from being screwed by a store which *chooses* not to sell affordable front projectors so they can steer people to much more expensive, cumbersome, and ultimately less compelling rear-projection sets.

And yes, this is my personal experience shopping at Tweeter, asking about front-projectors that I could afford (such as the Panasonic AE300 and NEC HT1000) and hearing their salesperson scoffing at "cheap business projectors" (many of which produce a better image than many rear-projection sets they sell) and sneering at the information one can find on the internet. Of course when I asked, he'd never actually *seen* any of the specific business projectors he was sneering at in general, nor did he seem to know that there were many HT projectors at half the price of his projector offerings, and IMO they produced a better picture as well.

It was a very annoying experience, and I certainly hope that the people who were sold these giant rear-projection TVs (or even worse, direct-view sets) feel ripped off when I show them my H30 and point out that they could have had a picture four times the size for half the price if they hadn't spent their money at Tweeter, or Best Buy, or Circuit City; those places didn't WANT to show them all their options because they didn't really care what was best for the customer (if they cared, they'd have those options for sale, after all) but just wanted to make a quick buck by selling whatever they got the most kickbacks for selling.

~ Kiran <entropy@io.com>
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post #97 of 102 Old 07-04-2004, 05:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by entropy
[b]It's beginning to sound like the corporate shills have arrived.



I don't think this is about "educating the masses." I think this is about trying to prevent people from being screwed by a store which *chooses* not to sell affordable front projectors so they can steer people to much more expensive, cumbersome, and ultimately less compelling rear-projection sets.

And yes, this is my personal experience shopping at Tweeter, asking about front-projectors that I could afford (such as the Panasonic AE300 and NEC HT1000) and hearing their salesperson scoffing at "cheap business projectors" (many of which produce a better image than many rear-projection sets they sell) and sneering at the information one can find on the internet. Of course when I asked, he'd never actually *seen* any of the specific business projectors he was sneering at in general, nor did he seem to know that there were many HT projectors at half the price of his projector offerings, and IMO they produced a better picture as well.

It was a very annoying experience, and I certainly hope that the people who were sold these giant rear-projection TVs (or even worse, direct-view sets) feel ripped off when I show them my H30 and point out that they could have had a picture four times the size for half the price if they hadn't spent their money at Tweeter, or Best Buy, or Circuit City; those places didn't WANT to show them all their options because they didn't really care what was best for the customer (if they cared, they'd have those options for sale, after all) but just wanted to make a quick buck by selling whatever they got the most kickbacks for selling.

~ Kiran <entropy@io.com>
Your assertions regarding image quality may very well be true and I would tend to agree with you but that does not mean that B&M stores can offer and support display devices that require a huge amount of real estate to display properly and that are sold by drop shippers for just above cost on the internet. While I agree with your preference for front projection it is not for everyone. Many people do not want the hassle of setting up a home theater, dealing with light control issues, running wires up the walls and over the ceiling, finding a place to mount a screen & projector. Many do not want a product where an expensive bulb can explode at any time without warning. It is a matter of convenience and ease of use and just like digital projector owners have accepted lesser image quality over CRT projectors for the sake of convenience so have the big box display customers relative to digital projectors.
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post #98 of 102 Old 07-04-2004, 09:50 AM
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Not that anyone is probably really reading at this point:

Quote:
First, we have an enthusiiast who volunteered to a Tweeter customer that he made his own screen.
Actually--she asked him. He didn't volunteer it. He volunteered that HE had a front projection. She began asking HIM questions. He poked his head in, the salesperson and the woman told him to come on in.

Quote:
That's ok to say, if asked. But the good lady was there for Tweeter's advice, not his.
Except, as I read the first post again--she did ask. She was there for Tweeter's advice, and then she saw someone who actually had a front projection system, and started asking HIS advice.

This all seems to be getting lost in the sauce here. She was probing him for answers. He didn't just stroll up and start offering solutions and alternatives out of the blue. She was actively interested and was asking him questions about front projection. This is apparently an activity that even the retailers in this thread don't find objectionable, as noted by the second quote.

This isn't guerrilla retail sabotage. I've worked at a Circuit City before--and if you didn't have your **** straight, other salespeople would jack your sale from you, much less another customer. Your business was to know your product so even if some know-it-all came through and tried to get you, you could use that knowledge to your advantage.

It's the salespersons responsibility to make sure they know what they're selling AND what the other people are selling. These tweeter guys apparently didn't, got really threatened, and instead of playing up the benefits of their higher priced stuff, explaining the difference between board nailed to a wall and painted with latex house paint, and a Firehawk, threw the guy out.

Of the two "retail sins" the salespeople most definitely committed the greater one. I'm not excusing people who just jump into other peoples business all day for the sole purpose of "sticking it to the man" or whatever--people gotta eat, got rent to pay, got car payments and insurance. But if you're so careless about your job that you can't even manage to come up with a convincing counter-argument to one guy's DIY musings in the middle of a showroom--you lost that sale yourself.

I mean, if I'm a salesman, and I'm IN a darkened room with a projector going, I'm going to use the reality of that room to my advantage. A DIY screen and a cheap projector is a cloudy mental image at that point. But this expensive motorized stewart screen and this high quality Yamaha throwing the image is RIGHT THERE IN FRONT OF HER. How do you not capitalize on that? How do you instantly give up and throw the DIY guy out of the room? Hell, how do you not INCORPORATE the DIY guy into the sale? Rope him in? He knows enough about Front Projection to set up his own stuff? Then he knows that if he had the money, he'd probably spring for something like this. Get the DIY guy to gush about how great these products are.

Considering he was ASKED his opinions by the customer, and she apparently was more excited by his single "I have a front projection system" sentence than the tweeter guy's entire 3 day spiel, I think painting him as the retail-killer bad guy is way too much overkill.


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post #99 of 102 Old 07-04-2004, 10:23 AM
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Fatboy, you sound like you were a quality salesman. You've got it spot on.

I disagree with Entropy a bit in that sales folks definitely are not obligated to point out all your options for you - you don't hear McDonald's telling you at the drive-through that Wendy's has a special on Spicy Chicken this week do you? Where I personally draw the line is when they spread dis-information or outright lies.

Maybe I need to unsubscribe from this thread :)

Good, cheap, easy - pick any two.
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post #100 of 102 Old 07-04-2004, 10:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by entropy
[b]It's beginning to sound like the corporate shills have arrived.


It was a very annoying experience, and I certainly hope that the people who were sold these giant rear-projection TVs (or even worse, direct-view sets) feel ripped off when I show them my H30 and point out that they could have had a picture four times the size for half the price if they hadn't spent their money at Tweeter, or Best Buy, or Circuit City; those places didn't WANT to show them all their options because they didn't really care what was best for the customer (if they cared, they'd have those options for sale, after all) but just wanted to make a quick buck by selling whatever they got the most kickbacks for selling.

~ Kiran <entropy@io.com>
You can't be serious. First of all, your beloved H30 or whatever digital projector still does not produce the same quality picture that a well setup RPTV will produce. You have the same issues with black levels, contrast levels, etc... that prevent you from even coming close to a CRT based FP let alone a RPTV. Let's not even talk about the brightness of the picture. Put your picture next to the same source on a quality RPTV and look at how washed out it looks.

Regardless the rest of your post epitomizes the comments on this thread. You assume because you have a FP setup that everyone would want the same. You could not be more wrong. Just because you picked a low end FP system over a higher end RPTV does not mean it is the correct choice for everyone. Some people are simply not interested in a FP setup. What about those who have a viewing area with alot of windows and do not want to put blackout shades on every window? Did they get ripped of because they chose the RPTV route? :rolleyes: How about the person that does not want the large FP screen? Did he/she also get ripped off as well? :rolleyes:

Instead of being "happy" that someone feels they got ripped of when they see your system perhaps you should get a clue and realize that not everyone has the same needs/wants as you. Personally I wouldn't take your H30 over my high end CRT based FP. I probably paid less than you and have a better picture so should I be "happy" that you got ripped of as well :rolleyes:


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post #101 of 102 Old 07-04-2004, 12:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by entropy
t's beginning to sound like the corporate shills have arrived.

I think this is about trying to prevent people from being screwed by a store which *chooses* not to sell affordable front projectors so they can steer people to much more expensive, cumbersome, and ultimately less compelling rear-projection sets.
I want to respond to your post but it’s going to take me a minute as it caused me to shake my head so hard I threw my neck out of whack.

A few posts ago I was chiding PAP for trying to bring some larger more all-encompassing issues into the discussion but I think in many ways he was correct. In this case such as:

1. We live in a free market society and what stores sell is largely driven by supply and demand. Stores don’t devote much space to FP because the demand for FP is low and likely always will be, not because they are "screwing" us.

2. We live in a free market society where stores are free to focus on the markets they choose to (mass market, high-end market etc.). Again, the law of supply and demand largely drives this, which is why you will always find MANY more stores catering to the mass market than to the high-end. Anyhow, a store like Tweeter that chooses to focus on the mid-level to high-end markets is no more “screwing†anyone than Walmart is screwing me because I can’t purchase an Armani suit there.

While I’m a very strong believer in our free market system I’m no “corporate shill†and do have concerns about many issues such as the inability of the poor to afford a good education and therefore advance economically etc. Nevertheless, the absolute contempt for our free market (and lack of understanding of how it works) and the contempt for the principle of free choice exhibited in so many of the posts here is pretty scary. Apparently many people here such as you don’t believe that people in this country are free or intelligent enough to choose what to buy for themselves and they need to be protected by wiser people such as yourself. If their choices don’t happen to coincide with yours it’s because some corporation is “screwing†them by not leading them to the choice that agrees with yours. So who's the one here that has contempt for the everyday person and the principle of free choice and free market? Hint: it's NOT Tweeter.

Edit: I had finished my post above but just noticed the gift that you gave me in your post, quoted below:
Quote:
and I certainly hope that the people who were sold these giant rear-projection TVs (or even worse, direct-view sets) feel ripped off when I show them my H30 and point out that they could have had a picture four times the size for half the price if they hadn't spent their money at Tweeter, or Best Buy, or Circuit City; those places didn't WANT to show them all their options because they didn't really care what was best for the customer (if they cared, they'd have those options for sale, after all) but just wanted to make a quick buck by selling whatever they got the most kickbacks for selling.
Man, if that doesn't confirm everything I already postulated, what does. So you *want* people to feel screwed when they see your system because that shows how much more intelligent you are then them, right? And because you in all your high mightiness care about and know what's best for them, not like all those evil corporations.

Oh, one final thing that might interest you slightly. Actually, the markup on projectors is a little bit higher than the markup on on rear projection TV's. Mind boggling as this may be to you, they sell rear projection TV's NOT because they make more profit on them on a per unit basis, but because that's what the VAST majority of people WANT.
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post #102 of 102 Old 07-04-2004, 04:51 PM
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I get last word, and then we're locking this thread. The fact is that the Tweeter people had every right to be pissed off. It IS there store. I don't blame them for getting it. That aside, this thread has been a serious education in just how varied people's ideas of "right" can be. As for the people who decided to toss insults here, you've been warned. Cut the crap.

Someday maybe I'll actually WATCH my projector...
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