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post #91 of 4527 Old 08-09-2004, 11:46 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by uranium
I'm confused with the spec lumens. Why does it say 1,000 ASNI Lumen at one end and then 850 Lumens at another? Well, maybe it doesn't matter... Only the calibrated brightness counts anyway.

At the orginal link in German at the bottom of the Forum the Admin states that in normal lamp mode its 1000 lumen and in econo lamp mode its 850

Take anything I say with a grain of Salt I am an Authority on nothing
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post #92 of 4527 Old 08-13-2004, 11:47 PM
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is this (or was this) the legit specs?? or all we all getting excited for nothing? AS USA AND AUS PANASONIC havent said a word???

3D Display - Epson TW9000w 3D Projector | 3D Player - Panasonic BD-110 3D player/PS3 | 3D Receiver -  Onkyo TX-NR818 | Speakers - Klipsch Reference 5.1 Speakers | PB12-NSD SVS Subwoofer

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post #93 of 4527 Old 08-14-2004, 01:14 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by noah katz
"That's also why I was curious as to whether LCD theoretical contrast was additive across the panels."

Oh, I thought you were joking. Every part in the optical path with an affect on CR is contributing to black level, and adding to the black levels always means less CR.

Okay, you guys have me confused as to what you are saying. Adding to the black level can mean the same CR if you are also increasing the white level the same amount. For instance, changing a bulb from low to high should raise the black level, but basically leave the CR the same.

I think these CR numbers quoted for the panels must be ANSI or just very conservative on/off numbers. Other than light path complexity and extra reflections, 3 panels shouldn't have lower CR than a single panel any more than 3 projectors stacked would have lower CR than one projector by itself.

--Darin

This is the AV Science Forum. Please don't be gullible and please do remember the saying, "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."
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post #94 of 4527 Old 08-14-2004, 09:37 AM
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Darin,

I was responding to what sounded like the idea that CR would *improve* with more paqnels.

Noah
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post #95 of 4527 Old 08-15-2004, 02:15 PM
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Noah - a fourth panel in serial with the three parallel ones would improve CR. My curiousity is piqued now due to the performance of the Epson 500 with respect to its "theoretical" performance of 500 CR. Per Darin's point, that may be max ANSI contrast, but I'm not sure why Epson would hype an ANSI CR number, given the criticism of on/off CR.

As I said, you guys are agreeing with how I thought it worked prior to getting the Epson...

Later,
Bill
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post #96 of 4527 Old 08-15-2004, 07:43 PM
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Bill,

Oh, right, *that* additional panel

Noah
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post #97 of 4527 Old 08-15-2004, 08:57 PM
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post #98 of 4527 Old 09-02-2004, 01:03 AM
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Panasonic AE700 was officially announced in Japan.

http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/av/do...40902/pana.htm



release in Japan: Oct 08
list price: No MSRP. but they hope 250,000 Yen
new 130W UHM lamp. ET-LAE700(3000 hours).
bright: 1000 lumen (<- AE500: 850 lumen)
contrast: 2000;1 (<- AE500: 1300:1)
optical zoom : F1.9¢¦F3.1 (<- AE500:F1.9¢¦2.2)
lens shift fuction
HDMI input
size; 335¡¿270¡¿95mm (<-AE500: 280¡¿269¡¿80mm)
weight : 3.6kg (<- AE500: 2.9kg)


- Panasonic Japan is saying that AE700 uses D4 panel. (not D5 panel).
- Epson new projector (TW200H) seems to use D4 panel, too.
- D5 panel is not yet adapted on any projector.
LL
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post #99 of 4527 Old 09-02-2004, 01:28 AM
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Arigato Kaneda!

Apart from what you mentioned, I'd note:

Dynamic iris
Eight-point colour management (as in the Hitachi TX100)
2x zoom - you can fill a 100" screen from 3m-6m distance

Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows.
-George Orwell, Nineteen Eighty-Four
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post #100 of 4527 Old 09-02-2004, 05:14 AM
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Great stuff..hopefully we can get our hands on it by the end of the year (shame about no DVI plug though). I emailed price Japan yesterday and I received a reply today, which quotes:

"Sorry we don't have any information about about Sanyo Z3, Panasonic AE700, Sony HS51"

It's always an exciting time when a new projector gets announced, especially an LCD which is affordably priced, has strong black levels, 1080p support, no VB (oh well...maybe next year).
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post #101 of 4527 Old 09-02-2004, 06:27 AM
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So, it seems as though the DLP camp is always saying that it is worth getting a DLP and sacraficing resolution to get the better contrast ratio. The unit in mind is the 4805. But, when I look at the contrast ratio and brightness of the 4805, I see 2200:1 and 750 lumens. Comparing that to this AE700, I see 2000:1 and 1000 lumens.

It doesn't seem like there is a huge gulf of difference. Is that because the LCD data they are providing is not believable? Have the specs always been this close but real life experience shows DLP to be better? Or is due to the improvement of LCD technology and this round of LCD projectors might actually be close to DLP as far as contrast and black levels are concerned?

reaper
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post #102 of 4527 Old 09-02-2004, 07:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Grubert
Arigato Kaneda!

Apart from what you mentioned, I'd note:

Dynamic iris
Eight-point colour management (as in the Hitachi TX100)
2x zoom - you can fill a 100" screen from 3m-6m distance

Dynamic iris as in same as what Sony and Epson are announcing/doing? Where did you find this information?? All I can find is the AI-function / Kunstliche Intelligenz which I thought was the same lamp modulation as on the AE500. If true this machine just got really interesting IMHO

/Fredrik
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post #103 of 4527 Old 09-02-2004, 08:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by lungan71
Dynamic iris as in same as what Sony and Epson are announcing/doing? Where did you find this information??

Paragraph 1 of their release announcement translated by babelfish:

Quote:
"Dynamic iris"
Being linked the lamp light intensity and the gamma data with the contraction mechanism of individual development, according to the image scene, it controls. At the same company, it has made the world first as a liquid crystal projector. Because of this, worldwide first contrast 2,000: It was compatible 1 and brightness 1,000lm.
The "dynamic iris" and, being linked also the gamma data to real time simultaneously, the light intensity of the illuminant lamp is controlled according to the former image scene in addition to "projector AI technology", it controls. The dynamic range was made to expand, you say that expression power "of black" was expanded.


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post #104 of 4527 Old 09-02-2004, 08:36 AM
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And I thought my English was bad.
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post #105 of 4527 Old 09-02-2004, 09:10 AM
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Thanks Grubert. Guess I was just surprised that they despite dynamic iris only speced a CR of 2000:1 when Sony claims 5000:1 with similar technology. Panasonic hasn't exactly underspeced their previous LCD-projectors so why would they now.

/Fredrik
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post #106 of 4527 Old 09-02-2004, 09:53 AM
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If you are trying to develop a machine that specs well, and you have a dynamic iris, why not go for the gold (literally)? Especially given how many people shop on specs alone.

Think about it this way:
  • Contrast Ratio is just that - a ratio of maximum light output vs. minimum light output. There is nothing in the measurement that indicates "usability".
  • If 0 IRE is .001 lumens, and 100 IRE is 2 lumens (aka 2000:1), is this really usable?
  • How good is the AI controlling the IRIS? The specs on the mechanics for most irises are quite good (e.g. millisecond range), but the AI is realitiscally going to be the limiting factor. If the AI is "slow", or if it misses entirely, then you end-up with a cool toy that is totally unusable.

Now, all that being said, who's going to buy first? Because I relaly hope they got it right the first time out. But I doubt it...

Later,
Bill

PS: Sony is claiming 6000:1, but that may be pushing it in terms of black crush...
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post #107 of 4527 Old 09-02-2004, 09:59 AM
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What makes you think they will not get it right?

The Spiral Staircase Theater Build Thread
zxlr88- Xbox live and PS Network
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post #108 of 4527 Old 09-02-2004, 10:13 AM
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Because they haven't yet.... first time for everything I suppose.

Someday maybe I'll actually WATCH my projector...
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post #109 of 4527 Old 09-02-2004, 03:08 PM
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Panasonic just released the info on their Japan site

http://panasonic.jp/theater/projector/index.html

Hope they will fix the VB once n for all.


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post #110 of 4527 Old 09-02-2004, 03:31 PM
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woohoo! Good news!

However, I'm sad due to the fact that's I just acquired the Hitachi TX100 and now something else come out better.

Very sad
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post #111 of 4527 Old 09-03-2004, 04:52 AM
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Ok, here it is... this is an English product brief for the Aussie version it seems. Thanks for providing it xframe:

Get it here

Someday maybe I'll actually WATCH my projector...
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post #112 of 4527 Old 09-03-2004, 05:11 AM
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Thank you madpoet!

Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows.
-George Orwell, Nineteen Eighty-Four
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post #113 of 4527 Old 09-03-2004, 06:27 AM
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I was close to buying an AE500 this month. I will definately wait the extra couple of months for this to come out. I've heard it will be out the end of the month overseas. Hopefully it will be in the states by Xmas.
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post #114 of 4527 Old 09-03-2004, 06:42 AM
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Hmm, so they claim that dynamic iris in conjunction with lamp modulation gets you the best of both worlds? (bright images, and at the same time, dark ones??)

i was under the impression that closing the iris reduced light output, can someone explain how this is possible?
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post #115 of 4527 Old 09-03-2004, 07:21 AM
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Wow, a 2x zoom plus lens shift, that should make it definitely one of the most flexible ones. What kills me though is, if they can have a powered lens shift (I assume that from the joystick control), why stop short of a powered zoom? Still, unless there's something seriously wrong with the picture, or the price is way higher than the AE500, this looks hard to beat.
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post #116 of 4527 Old 09-03-2004, 07:32 AM
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First shipment into australia expected September 24
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post #117 of 4527 Old 09-03-2004, 07:37 AM
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Quote:
Light leakage is reduced by using twin blades. As the exhaust fan is on its front, the projector only needs a narrow site.

Front mounted fan? I'd rather see them say "There is NO light leakage."
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post #118 of 4527 Old 09-03-2004, 08:14 AM
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Uwe,

I don't think that the projector has powered lens shift.
If you look at the front view of the projector (page 4 of the brochure) you can see the joy stick, that manually adjusts the lens shift.

Horst
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post #119 of 4527 Old 09-03-2004, 08:32 AM
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Kamus, I think they change the gamma dynamical and try to maximise intrascene contrast on any given frame --- no other way I can imagine to achieve the effect. Does it really work? Will the image still look like intended? Well I think we have to wait for the first review. I am wondering if a true D65 calibration is possible with these dynamical features.

--Peter

--Peter
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post #120 of 4527 Old 09-03-2004, 08:52 AM
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empire it is always like that
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