OFFICIAL Sanyo Z3 thread - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 1827 Old 10-17-2004, 11:23 AM
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I'm going to have to second a motion with Suffolk112000........the 2.0 throw distance is, without a doubt, the most amazing feature for those of us who have less-than-optimum room setups.

It *ALWAYS* made me scratch my head the way that projector companies would equip their projectors with zoom lenses that, for all intents and purposes, forced you to place your projector within **3 feet** of where your best seating position would be.......having a bright, fan-equipped, space heater within 3 feet of where you're sitting just doesn't seem smart, no matter how you place it.


Being able to throw the same size image within a 10 foot window of placement.......thats flat-out brilliant.

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post #92 of 1827 Old 10-17-2004, 11:26 AM
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didnt see this posted sorry if it was

http://presentation-systems.co.uk/pdfs/sanyo-plv-z3.pdf
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post #93 of 1827 Old 10-18-2004, 10:35 AM
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It looks to me like the Z3 and the Panny 700 have the same throw ability. Both need 3meters to produce a 100" image, so not sure why you lot think the 700 is that great.

For my money the Z3 looks much better too, and if its going to be on show in any way, that counts for something.
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post #94 of 1827 Old 10-18-2004, 10:42 AM
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Did I read the review correctly in the lens shift was 150% It was mentioning that with the projector on the ceiling it could throw and image 50% lower than the center line. So ceiling mounted projector, say 96x52 screen, that would seem to indicate the projector could be as high as 26" above the top of the screen is this true?

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post #95 of 1827 Old 10-18-2004, 11:00 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by markbingo
The Z3 is now available to buy here in the UK, and it costs about £300 more than the Z2. Question is, is it worth the extra money over the Z2, or should I go with the Z2 because it has been around a little bit longer and is electronically "settled in" to the market ?

What do you lot think, should I be wary of buying a brand new technology release, or be brave and do it because it does come with a 3 year warranty anyway.

Any (constructive) thoughts ?

I was hoping the street price for the Z3 would be at least the same or better as the Z2 did when it first came out. Especially when the Z3 has a $500 lower MSRP.

Oh well.
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post #96 of 1827 Old 10-18-2004, 11:07 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by markbingo
It looks to me like the Z3 and the Panny 700 have the same throw ability. Both need 3meters to produce a 100" image, so not sure why you lot think the 700 is that great.

For my money the Z3 looks much better too, and if its going to be on show in any way, that counts for something.

Actually the Panasonic has a much better throw capability. It can produce a 100" image from as close as 10 ft to as far as 20 ft from the screen. The Z3 can only do that from 10 ft to 13 ft from the screen. Therefore, the Panasonic wins by a large margin...making it much easier to install.

OTOH, the Panasonic lens shift may not be nearly as good as that on the Sanyo....so that may affect some installations.
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post #97 of 1827 Old 10-18-2004, 11:18 AM
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just thought i'd let this thread know that there is a Z3 for sale on a very popular auction site. good luck

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post #98 of 1827 Old 10-18-2004, 11:40 AM
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When I mentioned that the Z3 was £300 more in the UK, that was against a very competitively priced Z2. That was not the RRP for the Z2.

The Z3 is coming in at about £1250, so thats about what Sanyo were mooting.
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post #99 of 1827 Old 10-18-2004, 11:47 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Tup
Actually the Panasonic has a much better throw capability. It can produce a 100" image from as close as 10 ft to as far as 20 ft from the screen. The Z3 can only do that from 10 ft to 13 ft from the screen. Therefore, the Panasonic wins by a large margin...making it much easier to install.

OTOH, the Panasonic lens shift may not be nearly as good as that on the Sanyo....so that may affect some installations.

I was thinking about how close it could be, as opposed to how far away it could be, sorry. I'll be putting mine on a Coffee Table, so being close is the key for me. That is a good range on the Panny, so I can see what you mean about its potential for permanent (ceiling mounted) installation.
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post #100 of 1827 Old 10-18-2004, 12:44 PM
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I agree--- the AE700's zoom is fantastic. The hoops I've had to jump through to get my first AE100 and current Z2 to the correct position is ridiculous. Mega zoom will be a huge selling point for a lot of users.... kind of like the lens shift was a huge selling point for the Z2.

I'm not really seeing why people are favoring the Z3 over the AE700?

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post #101 of 1827 Old 10-18-2004, 01:11 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by JPinTO
I agree--- the AE700's zoom is fantastic. The hoops I've had to jump through to get my first AE100 and current Z2 to the correct position is ridiculous. Mega zoom will be a huge selling point for a lot of users.... kind of like the lens shift was a huge selling point for the Z2.

I'm not really seeing why people are favoring the Z3 over the AE700?

Z3 has more inputs, better lens shift, and apparently a better scaler/deinterlacer. Thats just off the top of my head.

I am personally torn between the 2. I could really use that extra component input but a 3000+ hour bulb makes me drool......
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post #102 of 1827 Old 10-18-2004, 01:14 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by JPinTO
In this case, a screenshot is worth 1000 words... and is summed up by 1 word: Blech. VB is attrocious.


As someone mentioned ealier that image is not being projected by a Z3. It is a presentation about a Z3 though.

Few ways to tell:

1. Its 4:3.......

2. Look at the labels below the picture, they are comparing two different PJ's one of which being the Z3 which would suggest they dont actually have a Z3 on hand.
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post #103 of 1827 Old 10-18-2004, 04:47 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by JPinTO
I agree--- the AE700's zoom is fantastic. The hoops I've had to jump through to get my first AE100 and current Z2 to the correct position is ridiculous. Mega zoom will be a huge selling point for a lot of users.... kind of like the lens shift was a huge selling point for the Z2.

I'm not really seeing why people are favoring the Z3 over the AE700?

One word : "price". Just like why people are selecting the AE700 over the VPL-HS51. Just like why people are selecting these new batch of LCD projectors (among other things) over DLP based products.

Just my 2 cents, HD2+DC3 DMD's are way over priced for what you're getting. Last time I checked the MSRP is $8999 for 720p DLP with over 2000:1 contrast / 800 Lumens brightness. Sure the image is probably smoother, brighter, and more "3D" like, but I'm not quite sure if it's worth an extra $5000-$6000 USD. Those DLP advantage claims may be on unstable grounds by the looks of recent owner reviews of their AE700. The Z3 looks like a bargain for what you're getting too, according to a preliminary review from PJ Central.
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post #104 of 1827 Old 10-18-2004, 04:48 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Vlad_Dracule
As someone mentioned ealier that image is not being projected by a Z3. It is a presentation about a Z3 though.

Few ways to tell:

1. Its 4:3.......

2. Look at the labels below the picture, they are comparing two different PJ's one of which being the Z3 which would suggest they dont actually have a Z3 on hand.

That looks like just a presenation of the Z3. It's the same thing posted on the Japanese website a while back.
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post #105 of 1827 Old 10-18-2004, 06:56 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Cine4Home
Neither the Z3 nor the PTAE700 are VB-free.....

Regards,
Ekkehart, www.cine4home.de

Ekkehart-
Thanks for all the hard work tweaking these babies to their maximum potential!

In the pdf posted above, it looks like the Z3's "motorized iris" is indeed a dynamic iris that adjusts by itself much like the AE700 and the HS51. Is that true? There was speculation a ways back about it only being a motorized iris in that it was user adjustable via the remote. Confirmation one way or the other would be appreciated.

Thanks.
-Matt
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post #106 of 1827 Old 10-18-2004, 08:01 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Souki
One word : "price". Just like why people are selecting the AE700 over the VPL-HS51. Just like why people are selecting these new batch of LCD projectors (among other things) over DLP based products.

Just my 2 cents, HD2+DC3 DMD's are way over priced for what you're getting. Last time I checked the MSRP is $8999 for 720p DLP with over 2000:1 contrast / 800 Lumens brightness. Sure the image is probably smoother, brighter, and more "3D" like, but I'm not quite sure if it's worth an extra $5000-$6000 USD. Those DLP advantage claims may be on unstable grounds by the looks of recent owner reviews of their AE700. The Z3 looks like a bargain for what you're getting too, according to a preliminary review from PJ Central.

You may want to check again in about a month or so. Sharp is coming out with the XV-Z2000 and I think its MSRP is going to be $4495. When the chatter about it started on AVS they were saying streeting for $3999. I would imagine it will be less if it contains the same margins as its big brother. And while I do not expect Yamaha and marantz to follow suit, I do expect Benq to stay in the price-war compeition.

Still, your point is valid.

When will D* stop pushing HD-Lite while charging us for full HD? Digital input on a CRT is a reality, not a possibility.
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post #107 of 1827 Old 10-18-2004, 11:29 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by TheFerret
You may want to check again in about a month or so. Sharp is coming out with the XV-Z2000 and I think its MSRP is going to be $4495. When the chatter about it started on AVS they were saying streeting for $3999. I would imagine it will be less if it contains the same margins as its big brother. And while I do not expect Yamaha and marantz to follow suit, I do expect Benq to stay in the price-war compeition.

Still, your point is valid.

Almost forgot about the Sharp! Hmmmm...$1000-$2000 more... But I'm just thinking if the Panny is around $2199 street from $2999 MSRP, the PLV-Z3 would probably be $1795 street from $2495 MSRP. Gonna be a tough sell for us budget minded people around here,

That said, can't wait til December for some reviews/shootout of the Sharp.
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post #108 of 1827 Old 10-19-2004, 12:39 AM
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Don't forget Evan's comparison review, in P.C., of the Z3 vs. the AE700 promised Tuesday (today?).

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post #109 of 1827 Old 10-20-2004, 12:32 AM
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Projector Central's AE700 vs Z3 comparison.

http://www.projectorcentral.com/pana...0_sanyo_z3.htm
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post #110 of 1827 Old 10-20-2004, 05:55 AM
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Quote:


In the pdf posted above, it looks like the Z3's "motorized iris" is indeed a dynamic iris that adjusts by itself much like the AE700 and the HS51. Is that true?


No unfortunately not true. it is just a normal Iris motorized. You can choose between 63 steps.. 63 gives the best contrast. This is for sure as i have the Z3 here...

Regards,
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post #111 of 1827 Old 10-20-2004, 06:21 AM
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In other words, its not a dynamic iris in the sense of how Sony and Panasonic has employed an iris. Variable yes, dynamic no.

When will D* stop pushing HD-Lite while charging us for full HD? Digital input on a CRT is a reality, not a possibility.
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post #112 of 1827 Old 10-20-2004, 08:25 AM
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In other words, its not a dynamic iris in the sense of how Sony and Panasonic has employed an iris. Variable yes, dynamic no.


Exactly.. it is more like the TX100 Iris.....

The Z3 reaches max 1650:1, 900:1 at D65

Black level is good....


Regards,
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post #113 of 1827 Old 10-20-2004, 09:42 AM
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Ekkehart-
That means the Z3 is getting a true on/off CR of 1650:1 with no funny dynamic iris tricks?! Do they use a lamp modulation instead to acheive this? What are the lumens in max CR?

How do those specs compare to the best "true" on/off CR you could get with the AE700 (without activating the iris)? Thanks again for all the hard work!
-Matt
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post #114 of 1827 Old 10-20-2004, 01:30 PM
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Hi all. I'm new to this forum although I've been browsing it for some time now. As with many others, I've decided to make the leap into the FP HT experience and have been reading everything I can about the PLV Z3, AE700U and the HS51.

Seeing how the Panny and Sanyo seem to compete more directly being in a closer price range, I was especially interested in the comparisons, so this question is especially for ekkehart.

From reading the posts, am I correct in understanding that the PLV-Z3 can achieve a 900:1 contrast ratio merely by calibration and a 1650:1 contrast ratio with filter, in a single film/picture frame, with no dynamic iris? In other words, this is a true contrast ratio between the lightest and darkest areas of a single displayed frame?

And in comparison, the AE700U can achieve a contrast ratio of 950:1 by calibration and a little over 2000:1 with filter, but this is WITH dynamic iris and it only achieves a contrast ratio of 600:1 within a single displayed frame?

If I've read it right, then the Sanyo has a much greater contrast ratio within any single scene or frameshot that has both bright light and dark shadow, but the Panasonic has greater contrast when comparing contrast between the darkest scenes and brightest scenes in different parts of a movie?
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post #115 of 1827 Old 10-21-2004, 05:33 AM
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I think what is most important is what is achieved without filter and calibrating to D65. Of course, this is not to say filter-based calibration at D65 is not worth considering as it is. I think its also important to know what the CR setting on the projector is when achieving maximum CR, at D65 (filter or not) so some can get an idea of how much light they'll have to work with and maybe help them choose a screen gain accordingly.

When will D* stop pushing HD-Lite while charging us for full HD? Digital input on a CRT is a reality, not a possibility.
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post #116 of 1827 Old 10-21-2004, 08:08 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by djbluemax1
If I've read it right, then the Sanyo has a much greater contrast ratio within any single scene or frameshot that has both bright light and dark shadow, but the Panasonic has greater contrast when comparing contrast between the darkest scenes and brightest scenes in different parts of a movie?

This is why I posted my above question to Ekkehart... I don't think we can claim what your claiming with out confirmation from him. I'm guessing the Panny and Sanyo use similar trickery....

Both have about 1000:1 standard.
Z3's max contrast I'm guessing uses a auto adjusting lamp and filter to get about 1500:1
AE700 uses an auto lamp, auto iris and filter to push it a bit further to 2000:1

If you could just use the auto lamp fuction on the AE700 I would guess they would be about the same.... 1500:1. Both units use the same panels so I wouldn't expect a 50% difference from one machine to another without some sort of trickery
-Matt

P.S. I don't mean "trickery" to be a bad thing as long as it works.
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post #117 of 1827 Old 10-21-2004, 12:25 PM
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Hopefully Ekkehart will read this and reply sometime soon. I PM'ed the questions directly to him too, hoping it would be easier to note as opposed to checking every thread he's posted in to see if anyone's asked a question.

In retrospect though. I realize that the Sanyo must be doing this with the lamp mode thing, and the 900:1 and 1650:1 measurements ARE full on/off since the quoted CR can't be ANSI measurements. The HS51 with the rated 6000:1 CR actually measured a 5000+:1 full on/off CR but the ANSI contrast was only measured at a little over 150:1

Still, I would really like to know what the ANSI CR is for the Z3 and 700U.
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post #118 of 1827 Old 10-21-2004, 01:15 PM
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I have to say, frankly, I don't get any of this. Why would I want the CR as measured between two different frames. Maybe I am missing the point but other than marketing what could that number tell me. Varying the lamp or the iris? You guys are making this stuff up right?

This all brings back the days when audio amps were measured in crazy standards. Remember that 10 watt amp that was rated at 100 watt? That was for only one half cycle at 200hz measured just as the power supply capacitor exploded.

OK, goofy comments over.
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post #119 of 1827 Old 10-21-2004, 02:09 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by netman
I have to say, frankly, I don't get any of this. Why would I want the CR as measured between two different frames. Maybe I am missing the point but other than marketing what could that number tell me. Varying the lamp or the iris? You guys are making this stuff up right?

May I suggest you read this review
Though it deals with the Sony HS51 it does have some interesting comments with respect to the value and need for high ON/OFF CR. These are figures from a calibrated LCD which takes advantage of a dynamic iris. People can consider these as "tricks" but in fact it is an known tech adapted to projectors and happens to mimic the action of the eye. If interested dynamic iris tech has been discussed in several threads here on AVS.

Manufacturers have been delivering PJ's with adjustable irises to lower the lumens and hence enhance black level for some time now. Why not automate the process in such a way that allows the user the advantages of both higher lumens and lower blacks? If it is a 'trick', it is an artifice that works so why shouldn't we take advantage of any device that enhances PQ and adds to our enjoyment?

ted
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post #120 of 1827 Old 10-21-2004, 08:40 PM
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Any Canadians going for a Z3 ?
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