OFFICIAL Sony HS50(51) thread - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 5686 Old 09-12-2004, 12:36 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Monkey_Man
reaper:
Have you ever seen VB?



Yes

Quote:


If so did you notice any degree of VB in either unit?

No

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post #92 of 5686 Old 09-12-2004, 01:07 PM
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BTW, I asked how they measured 6000:1 contrast and they said it ws a full bright white screen for max brightness in comparison with a full black scene. It was not a scene with intermixed checkerboard patterns or anything.

I asked why they rate theirs at 6000:1 when the AE700 employs the same tech and only rates it at 2000:1. I got a response that they do not know what Panasonic is doing in their proj or how they are measuring their contrast.

I asked what the differences were in the new LCD panels vs the old... they said they did not know except for the different resolution.

I asked what the bulb wattage was and they said 130W I think... ... it was 130 or 140... somewhere in that ballpark.

Sorry I am not an expert and cannot offer any definitive reviews like rogo might. I just thought my impressions may be of some help. I definitely would not say that the AE700 was even demonstrable on the showroom floor and understand why that review was suspect. It was very washed out and the 51 blew away their showroom floor demo. That's why I spent so much time at the crown plaza.

Anyways, these are just some impressions from a normal dude that wants to buy himself a projector this Christmas .

One last note of interest. I saw just about every booth offering projector demos anywhere near this price range. I skipped booths like Runco. But I did see some of the $10,000 DLPs and other high end LCDs like the Epson 500. I don't know if this means anything to you guys, but the HS51 was the only projector that I kept wanting to go back and see again and again. I feel a bit ashamed. But I ended up in their 51 booths a total of 4 times throughout the day to see it. It has been on my mind since the show... I find myself constantly thinking about how I will scrounge up the extra cash to affford it

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post #93 of 5686 Old 09-12-2004, 01:30 PM
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Thanks Reaper ,Ran and Rogo.

Allan
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post #94 of 5686 Old 09-12-2004, 02:26 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by reaper


Anyways, these are just some impressions from a normal dude that wants to buy himself a projector this Christmas .

It has been on my mind since the show... I find myself constantly thinking about how I will scrounge up the extra cash to affford it

reaper

Great review Reeper... actually it is sometimes the less technical reviews of the projectors that are the most helpful. I would like to see more opinions like yours.

Craig

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post #95 of 5686 Old 09-12-2004, 05:56 PM
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I own the HS-20 and I believe screendoor effect is less pronounced than on the HS-51 I saw at CEDIA. Whether this relects a lack of MLA I dont know. Some of this could also be due to the setup of the unit and the use of a Sony screen material ( I use a Firehawk) , but I came away unimpressed. The real stars at CEDIA were the Qualia 04 (again) and the new 70" Qualia rear projector at $10k.

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post #96 of 5686 Old 09-12-2004, 06:52 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by mnn1265
Yes. The EDID bug effects NVidia video cards because NVidia software/drivers forces adherence to the EDID settings - which are wrong for the HS20. However, even some ATI cards may use EDID settings so it's not a guarentee your not going to have some problems with the bad EDID. Also, Panasonic and some other brand HDTV's also have bad EDID's...

this is supposed to be fixed in the next driver release. That is, they will allow the option to turn off EDID syncro.


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post #97 of 5686 Old 09-12-2004, 06:52 PM
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Reaper,

Thanks for the detailed reviews. I've got a few questions for you. Can you confirm the screen sizes used for the 700 and the 51. Also, I am a little confused about what type of screen the 700 and 51 were demoed on. I think I remember reading in a post somewhere that the 51 was on 100" Firehawk and the 700 was on a 120" + screen(unsure of screen color or brand) Just speculating that the firehawk would (of course) deepen the blacks and saturate colors of the 51. If the 700's screen was a matte white 1.0 gain, that might contribute to the advantage in the blackness of blacks and superior colors that you said the 51 exhibited over the 700. And lastly, the larger screen size of the 700 would result in a lower level of brightness and contrast v the 51 on a smaller screen.

Again, thanks for your willingness to share with us what you saw.

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post #98 of 5686 Old 09-12-2004, 07:52 PM
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reaper, I think your comments have been great...

---------------

As for this unrelated comment (unrelated to reaper, that is), "Instantaneous Contrast which would determine the overall contrast within a still picture."

That already exists. It's called ANSI contrast and is easily standardized and measured if you can make the room or test area very dark.

Obviously, whatever technology is being employed does not change ANSI contrast, aka "simultaneous contrast ratio".

Oh, and I doubt you will be able to buy this projector anywhere before November...

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
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post #99 of 5686 Old 09-12-2004, 07:52 PM
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any pics of the HS51, either screen shots or of projector? the only one i've seen is the one on the press release page.

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post #100 of 5686 Old 09-12-2004, 07:57 PM
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Quote:


this is supposed to be fixed in the next driver release. That is, they will allow the option to turn off EDID syncro.

I'm curious as to how you became privvy to this information? I've been fighting this problem along with JGene and others for some time and have not heard that to be the case...

I really hope it is true!
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post #101 of 5686 Old 09-12-2004, 09:52 PM
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I thought the Sony was shown on their new screen material because I didnt see the Stewart Logo anywhere on it and because when I saw it there was a split-screen type demo to illustrate the deeper blacks with their material. I didnt question a lot of the details because I own an HS-20 and just was not very impressed with the replacement.

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post #102 of 5686 Old 09-12-2004, 10:04 PM
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Rogo said in a post that there were two HS51 presentations one in a room with the black screen (to show what the black screen can do) and one with a normal screen (to show what the HS51 can do)

what did you see? if only the first it might explain the difference between the reviews
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post #103 of 5686 Old 09-12-2004, 10:13 PM
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The one I saw showed the HS-51 projecting onto a screen made of 2 seperate materials; 1 which was described by a sales rep as the new Sony 'black' screen material, the other a standard white based material. The black level was great on the 'black' material side and clearly better than the 'white' side. However, I noted more screen door effect on BOTH relative to my hS-20 on the Firehawk.

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post #104 of 5686 Old 09-13-2004, 01:15 AM
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Yep, the two HS51 demo's were side by side. The demo on the Firehawk wasn't as impressive as it could have been, since the room was too small front to back to get to a 1.5 seating distance. So most people in the room were looking at artifacts and screen door galore that you get from a 1.0 seating distance or less.
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post #105 of 5686 Old 09-13-2004, 07:12 AM
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This screen door discussion is really scaring me - I have a hs51 on order but plan to sit about 10.5 feet from a 108" wide 2.35 screen (82" 16:9 masked). Is everyone saying the SD is worse on this new projector than the hs20?

And if so how does the price of the new panny compare then?

Good, cheap, easy - pick any two.
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post #106 of 5686 Old 09-13-2004, 07:23 AM
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I own an HS-20 and sit 10' away from my 100" Firehawk. SDE is non-existent on mine. I saw the HS-51 at CEDIA as I noted earlier and SDE was very visible on the unit at the show. Obviously a side-by-side comparison would be helpful because its hard to say how that unit was set up. Others who viewed it apparently have had the same conclusion. Buying an HS-51 wouldnt be a mistake, but for me I would not even consider it as an upgrade to the HS-20. If you can buy an HS-20 at a good discount, I'd also suggest that as a consideration.

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post #107 of 5686 Old 09-13-2004, 07:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by PAP
This screen door discussion is really scaring me - I have a hs51 on order but plan to sit about 10.5 feet from a 108" wide 2.35 screen (82" 16:9 masked). Is everyone saying the SD is worse on this new projector than the hs20?

And if so how does the price of the new panny compare then?

That is not quite 1.5x screen width and would make SDE visible for me which is one the characteristics that I didn't like when I saw this projector. Screendoor is an issue on other LCD projectors I saw as well. I believe you would be better off with the AE700 with the smooth screen tech unless you have the flexibility to sit back a little further if necessary. If you read comments re SDE it is clear that there is a great deal of variation in people's visual acuity. I was a non-believer in Panasonics smooth screen tech until I saw it first hand and was very pleasantly surprised at how well it works. Even during white film credits in a field of black shows no screen door at all.
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post #108 of 5686 Old 09-13-2004, 09:07 AM
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"I own an HS-20 and sit 10' away from my 100" Firehawk. SDE is non-existent on mine. I saw the HS-51 at CEDIA as I noted earlier and SDE was very visible on the unit at the show."

Can you tell us how the SD looks on your HS20 when viewed from the same distance as you saw the HS51?

Thanks

Noah
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post #109 of 5686 Old 09-13-2004, 09:51 AM
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The reported SDE is also making me nervous, being a 10HT owner looking for an upgrade. I can understand the benifet of native 720P resolution, but LCD needs all the pixels it can get. If you can keep the screen size reasonable the SDE will not be an issue, but I like to use as big a screen as possible for gaming.

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post #110 of 5686 Old 09-13-2004, 11:20 AM
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SDE was MUCH more evident to me at similar distance on the HS-51; the variable here is I dont know how the HS-51 was set up/focused relative to mine which is calibrated and optimally focused.

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post #111 of 5686 Old 09-13-2004, 11:27 AM
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Makes sense.

HS-20 has MLA doesn't it? It also has more pixels. So unless Sony made some serious improvement in the fill factor of these panels, the HS-51 is bound to have more screen door. This projector sounds like it's not a good choice for people sitting less than 1.7 x screen width. Given that, I wonder what the reason is for the short throw lens.

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post #112 of 5686 Old 09-13-2004, 11:53 AM
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1.7x sounds a bit much to me. When I moved back to the back of the room, screen door became much less apparent and that was only about 1X the screen width, I'd guess. A little more than that and I'd say you probably would not be able to see it... maybe 1.2-1.5x. But I didn't take any measurements, so that is just a guess on my part. You may be right.

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post #113 of 5686 Old 09-13-2004, 02:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Docray1
SDE was MUCH more evident to me at similar distance on the HS-51; the variable here is I dont know how the HS-51 was set up/focused relative to mine which is calibrated and optimally focused.

It sounds like you did not see the HS51 /Firehawk demo only the HS51/ ( 75/25 blackscreen/white screen )demo ?

What was your viewing distance from the split screen?

could the increase in SDE over the HS20 be blackscreen related ?
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post #114 of 5686 Old 09-13-2004, 02:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by leckian
That is not quite 1.5x screen width and would make SDE visible for me

10 feet back on a 108" wide screen is only 1.1x. IMO that's too close for almost any LCD projector.




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post #115 of 5686 Old 09-13-2004, 02:26 PM
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reaper,

just in case you missed it, can you respond to my earlier post(#97).

thanks,
daniel

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post #116 of 5686 Old 09-13-2004, 02:48 PM
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You're gonna hate me now. I can fill in one of the gaps for you about the 700 but not about the HS51. I asked what screen material we were watching at the 700 demo and wrote it down. It was a DaLite HCCV screen. He said it was 100" wide and approximately 115 inches diagonal.

I agree with your comments about the potential for the screen material to affect the apparent color and brightness. I will whole heartedly recc that the definitive comments must come from someone other than me who has the chance to demo these in a single controlled environment.

Maybe someone else can specifically comment about the screen size and material for the 51? I have a guess but it's not worth spouting useless guesses...

reaper

Quote:
Originally posted by csedaniel
Reaper,

Thanks for the detailed reviews. I've got a few questions for you. Can you confirm the screen sizes used for the 700 and the 51. Also, I am a little confused about what type of screen the 700 and 51 were demoed on. I think I remember reading in a post somewhere that the 51 was on 100" Firehawk and the 700 was on a 120" + screen(unsure of screen color or brand) Just speculating that the firehawk would (of course) deepen the blacks and saturate colors of the 51. If the 700's screen was a matte white 1.0 gain, that might contribute to the advantage in the blackness of blacks and superior colors that you said the 51 exhibited over the 700. And lastly, the larger screen size of the 700 would result in a lower level of brightness and contrast v the 51 on a smaller screen.

Again, thanks for your willingness to share with us what you saw.

Daniel

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post #117 of 5686 Old 09-13-2004, 04:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by reaper
You're gonna hate me now. I can fill in one of the gaps for you about the 700 but not about the HS51. I asked what screen material we were watching at the 700 demo and wrote it down. It was a DaLite HCCV screen. He said it was 100" wide and approximately 115 inches diagonal.

I agree with your comments about the potential for the screen material to affect the apparent color and brightness. I will whole heartedly recc that the definitive comments must come from someone other than me who has the chance to demo these in a single controlled environment.

Maybe someone else can specifically comment about the screen size and material for the 51? I have a guess but it's not worth spouting useless guesses...

reaper

stewart firehawk, 100"
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post #118 of 5686 Old 09-13-2004, 04:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by reaper
1.7x sounds a bit much to me.

reaper

That was a typo. I meant 1.5x See what I get for surfing AVS while trying to get some work done?

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post #119 of 5686 Old 09-13-2004, 06:52 PM
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The page *LINK DELETED* states the hs51 -does- have MicroLensArray.

Can any of our Cedia friends affirm or deny this?

EDIT: Guys! Don't post dealer links with pricing!

Good, cheap, easy - pick any two.
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post #120 of 5686 Old 09-13-2004, 07:02 PM
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I cant confirm or deny MLA on the HS-51 but that link seems like a Sony reprint; its probably true. It doesnt change the fact that the HS-51 as set up at CEDIA showed more SDE than I get on my HS-20. Whether the cause was the resolution drop, the screen material or how it was set up remains an open question, but the increased SDE WAS there.

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