OFFICIAL Sony HS50(51) thread - Page 46 - AVS Forum
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post #1351 of 5686 Old 11-30-2004, 11:06 AM
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I only suck the JD&Coke through a straw. Helps to keep the air out of the alcohol stream.

When will D* stop pushing HD-Lite while charging us for full HD? Digital input on a CRT is a reality, not a possibility.
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post #1352 of 5686 Old 11-30-2004, 11:10 AM
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It defnitely hits you quicker that way. Of course when you befriend the bartender you need a little air every now and then.
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post #1353 of 5686 Old 11-30-2004, 12:29 PM
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In my HS51, 720p yields a smaller image, but nothing gets chopped off. Overscan is only 2%. It is just that the entire image get shrunk and fits inside a smaller window than the screen.

Quote:


Originally posted by TheFerret
Here is a good example. Let's say I want to watch the Atlanta Falcons (football for the uninitiated) this Sunday in HD and on the HS51. I will hope that the scores are not too chopped off as the score-banner sits along the top edge of the screen. Now, Fox is broadcasting in 720P.

The idea that I should take a 720P broadcast and have the STB output it at 1080i just so that it can deinterlace and scale back to 720P is simple asinine. But this is exactly what one will have to do, or live with truncated scorecard banners.

Also, what if someone finished their theater in anticipation of a digital and ran a DVI or HDMI cable and not a VGA cable? SOL for them says Sony. LOL And don't even think about bringing up a channel guide is trying to decipher the clipped channel-numbers on the left side.

Now, if you can adapt and are willing to tolerate potential issues of either using RGBHV for your pseudo-digital projector, or your forced interlacing artifact-ridden entertainment (being faceteous, here), this might be your best bet for the money.

There are three people in the US of A with this projector in their home and none of them could find the adjustment that was previously foundin older models. Did Sony go out of their way to better hide these adjustments, and if so why.

Conspiracy Theory! Sorry, just having fun with this reply. Not trying to talk anyone out of their purchasing the unit, but ranting on why I may have to do without ... and that's absurd. Imagine a car where you could only buy one kind of tire for it and learn this the day you go to sign on the dotted line.

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post #1354 of 5686 Old 11-30-2004, 12:31 PM
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Since we dont have any HDTV here in Sweden and wont have any the next coming years; I will most probably buy a Denon 2910 DVD player and upscale through HDMI to 1080i for films and in that case this really should'nt be an issue for me should it? ( I still belive it should be fixed, just to point that out)

Next question, has someone tried to scale to 1080i through their HTCP and see if that workes?
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post #1355 of 5686 Old 11-30-2004, 12:43 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Havocsi
Next question, has someone tried to scale to 1080i through their HTCP and see if that workes?

I don't think anyone has tried this but someone earlier successfully got 1280x720 to work with no blanking using the VGA input. I will probably just run DVI out from my HTPC and then use a DVI-VGA adaptor for the time being.
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post #1356 of 5686 Old 11-30-2004, 12:56 PM
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Why not an HD15 to HD15 vga cable into input A?
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post #1357 of 5686 Old 11-30-2004, 01:05 PM
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What retailers had availability dates?
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post #1358 of 5686 Old 11-30-2004, 01:31 PM
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Quote:


Since we dont have any HDTV here in Sweden and wont have any the next coming years

OT: Well, we'll have HDTV sooner than you think Canal Digital is starting at least on HD channel next year and we already have HD1 (former Euro1080) SVT (The national Swedish broadcasting corp) is starting test transmissions next year and it's not unlikely that we will be able to see the winter Olympics 2006 and Soccer world cup the same year in HDTV.

BTW: The HDMI bug is definitely a deal breaker for me.
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post #1359 of 5686 Old 11-30-2004, 01:33 PM
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Please see my post regarding Sony recalling all 1800 HS51's that have shipped.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...hreadid=476441
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post #1360 of 5686 Old 11-30-2004, 01:35 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by emailists
Please see my post regarding Sony recalling all 1800 HS51's that have shipped.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...hreadid=476441

Ay Carumba!

Cheers,

Ronin
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
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post #1361 of 5686 Old 11-30-2004, 01:44 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by rogo
As far as the Pansonic, there's a good chance the vertical banding won't bother you. But obviously, no chance the white flashes won't.

The Rogo Meter (tm) leans back toward the Panasonic. It will fill the gap until 1080p for less cash. But the premium is on a good dealer, an understanding of warranty service, etc. If I recall, another nice thing about the Panasonic is easy choice of locations for mounting...

I'm probably now skipping this generation of projectors entirely as it'll be March before I can really enjoy one and only 6-8 months before the next ones are in production.... But I am very confounded by Sony's bug, especially given the delays.

Well since I've good respect for the Rogo Meter (tm) its needle might push me onto the Panasonic lawn - though the white flashes would be my big bugaboo- . I'm just tired of researching and changing my discursive mind. Buy it and sell it next Sept. maybe.

Of course if I don't like it I can always blame Mark.

ted
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post #1362 of 5686 Old 11-30-2004, 01:58 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by TheFerret
Jschefdog, is there anyway we could get you to count the number of pixels being blanked out on all four sides (L, R, Top, Bottom)? How about captures of the Factory menu options?

The black border appears all the way around, but wider on the sides. I could try to count the pixels, but the count ted1001 posted from the photos I posted sounds about right.

Doing a capture of all the factory menu items would be difficult because they only display one at a time. When you enter factory mode, it adds a Device menu at the bottom of the main menu. This button opens a menu with about 6 categories (A/D, Picture, IP, other...). I could get a picture of that. But when you pick a category, it displays the first setting as a single line. You can use left/right to adjust, or up/down to change to the next setting. As I said there are lots of them and nothing looked like blank, or BLK, or BLNK, or size, or SIZ. I have seen these type of adjustments in the service menu on my CRT, but not on this PJ. There may be adjustments that affect this, but I don't think the name indicate blanking or size.

John S
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post #1363 of 5686 Old 11-30-2004, 02:01 PM
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hi everyone


i had just decided on the hs50 over the 700 and now this, first vb and flashes on the panny and i thought i pay the extra cash for the sony(the perfect PJ) but noooo now the sony has a hdmi problem and i will use a panny dvd-s97 with hdmi.

people mention that with 1080i the cropping is less, how much less is it and is it such a big difference between 720p and 1080i.

thanks in advance
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post #1364 of 5686 Old 11-30-2004, 02:10 PM
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I hope the "recalling" is true and that this issue will be fixed, otherwise I think you will have to come up with sollutions for the problem yourself. Like using a HTPC with TheaterTek, then you can resize the movie yourself to fit the actual pictures at 720p so you see all information and then zoom out a little on the sony to get it fully into the viewing area. Not handsome but it would work...
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post #1365 of 5686 Old 11-30-2004, 02:43 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by TheFerret
Here is a good example. Let's say I want to watch the Atlanta Falcons (football for the uninitiated) this Sunday in HD and on the HS51. I will hope that the scores are not too chopped off as the score-banner sits along the top edge of the screen.

Not to diminish your consternation over the cropping issue, but I would imagine that most broadcast programs (and probably DVD's as well) are produced with at least some overscan in mind.

I don't have HD right now, so I can't say how such programs (like football games) are done, but my NTSC TV was set for a huge amount of overscan (almost 10%) by a less-than-conscientious repair guy, and I don't have major problems with football games and news tickers. While some of the graphics are obscured, the scores aren't, and the text of the news ticker is rarely off the edge of the visible area.

The toughest test, I think, is probably NASCAR races. The ticker that goes across the top of the screen is often quite obscured for me, so that may be a problem for this projector.

Scott
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post #1366 of 5686 Old 11-30-2004, 02:44 PM
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Hey, I just noticed that the latest Nvida drivers dated Nov 9 in the what's new section says:

Added support for using HDTV over DVI connectors

Maybe someone with a Nvidia card, HTPC, and HS50/51 can test? Found out about the info here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...hreadid=475746
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post #1367 of 5686 Old 11-30-2004, 03:20 PM
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Recall?
My dealer hasn't herd of one. She said that she has received many calls about this, and has emailed her distributor to find out if there is one.
Al
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post #1368 of 5686 Old 11-30-2004, 03:49 PM
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There is NO recall. Sony has denied such claims. Let's not get carried away by rumours.

Quote:


Originally posted by BOBCAT
Recall?
My dealer hasn't herd of one. She said that she has received many calls about this, and has emailed her distributor to find out if there is one.
Al

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post #1369 of 5686 Old 11-30-2004, 03:53 PM
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I'll run the edid on my 6800U tonite so see what modes show up. I'm using the latest beta drivers off their official site.
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post #1370 of 5686 Old 11-30-2004, 04:06 PM
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great darkwire, please report the listed edid modes here.
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post #1371 of 5686 Old 11-30-2004, 04:08 PM
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Can someone at least write down what items are in ther service menu and what the default values are?

Someone else might be able to decypher these acrynms for the rest of us and determine to change $%#@ to 2 instead of 15.

Just wondering.
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post #1372 of 5686 Old 11-30-2004, 04:39 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by dandaroy
In my HS51, 720p yields a smaller image, but nothing gets chopped off. Overscan is only 2%. It is just that the entire image get shrunk and fits inside a smaller window than the screen.

Well if this is the case then we are not talking about video blanking. This is even worse. This means that feeding 1280x720 in this troubled manner yields an effective lower resolution. I do not see how this could be considered 1:1 mapping, either, as you cannot map 1280 distinc pixels on a row to 1280 distinc locations on the screen. Either some pixels are not mapped, or they are sharing the same position.

More and more than seems like its scaling the signal down to something like 1200x680, or there abouts. This would suggest there is a scaler issue.
Quote:


Originally posted by emailists
Please see my post regarding Sony recalling all 1800 HS51's that have shipped.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...hreadid=476441

Can someone else contact their dealers and confirm this? Not doubting the poster, but I would be less than surprised if his dealer wasn't being truthful. I emailed my dealer, and also contacted a couple of B&M dealers asking them to contact Sony about this issue, and also forwarded (at their request) the relavent URL's.

Unfortunately, though, I found no one in Atlanta that actually had a working demo unit to rip into.

When will D* stop pushing HD-Lite while charging us for full HD? Digital input on a CRT is a reality, not a possibility.
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post #1373 of 5686 Old 11-30-2004, 04:58 PM
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"Well since I've good respect for the Rogo Meter (tm) its needle might push me onto the Panasonic lawn - though the white flashes would be my big bugaboo-"

Thanks for the respect.

Obviously, you'd need a Panasonic minus the white flashes to even contemplate that projector. Hence the need for a good dealer.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working. (Oh, and plasma didn't die because of logistics problems, nor does OLED ship in big boxes because it comes from Korea.)
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post #1374 of 5686 Old 11-30-2004, 05:08 PM
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I finally got back out to our HS51 installation today.
1. I found the problem with our HDMI connection a bad gender changer(DVI) from Geffen. Actually I had to go through two of them at our distributor before getting a good one.
2. HDMI at 720p from an HDTivo showed the same border as component 720p
3. Switching to 1080i on the HDtivo eliminated the problem. At least as far as both the DVD component input and the either a 1080i component or 1080i HDMI connection looking basically the same size.
4, Any other variables are not going to be noticed by this client,so until Sony finds some way to improve the 720p I am going to let this one go as is. Great picture!!
5.I looked through the service and factory menus for some time and did not find anything obvious to adjust. My Sony rep has a copy of the service manual so I should be able to get one in the near future. Messing with it now would be guessing at best.
6. I did notice that the lens assembly seemed loose in the cabinet. I could push on it and the picture would move up when push from underneath,somewhat disconcerting,but it is stable
7. I did mention all this to a Sony service rep and he is aware of the problem since Bill Cushman mentioned it in WSR. He has communicated to Japan
8. On a positive note the HDMI input has a direct access infrared code. No going to component and then up one input to access DVI as on the HS20
The picture looks great as is. We are going to wait until Window shades are installed and then we are going to set up the gray scale to complete the project. Good luck.
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post #1375 of 5686 Old 11-30-2004, 06:41 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by rogo
Obviously, you'd need a Panasonic minus the white flashes to even contemplate that projector. Hence the need for a good dealer.

I am swaying to the strategy of spending less now and more later - not a tactic I'm used to - had to have the best Now (within the limits of reason of course) - ah but I was so much older then.
I think when comparing things at this price point it arrives at a leap of faith - fortunately there *are* users who are having good experiences. As long as I don't take my work home with me I might overlook many of the quibbles and enjoy the movie - which is what its mostly about anyway.

ted
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post #1376 of 5686 Old 11-30-2004, 06:56 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by ddingle
My Sony rep has a copy of the service manual so I should be able to get one in the near future.

Great!
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post #1377 of 5686 Old 11-30-2004, 07:36 PM
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More like Great Despair.

When will D* stop pushing HD-Lite while charging us for full HD? Digital input on a CRT is a reality, not a possibility.
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post #1378 of 5686 Old 11-30-2004, 08:13 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by ddingle
2. HDMI at 720p from an HDTivo showed the same border as component 720p
3. Switching to 1080i on the HDtivo eliminated the problem. At least as far as both the DVD component input and the either a 1080i component or 1080i HDMI connection looking basically the same size.
4, Any other variables are not going to be noticed by this client,so until Sony finds some way to improve the 720p I am going to let this one go as is. Great picture!!
8. On a positive note the HDMI input has a direct access infrared code. No going to component and then up one input to access DVI as on the HS20
The picture looks great as is. We are going to wait until Window shades are installed and then we are going to set up the gray scale to complete the project. Good luck.

From the discussions I've read here, it seems the "solution" the 720p problem is to use 1080i instead. Since some suggest that 1080i is superior to 720p anyway, even for native 720p sources, would most users be happy using the 1080i option on their sources?

I plan on buying the HS51 and using an HDTivo for HDTV and digital TV via HDMI, I guess using the 1080i option on the HDTivo (currently use 480p on old projector). On the XBOX and DVD player, I was planning on using the component connection (switched through my receiver). I currently have a 4-year old Sanyo projector and a 4:3 screen, but plan on getting a new 16:9 screen for the HS51 (I assume the XBOX can only use a 4:3 aspect ratio, so we'll have to live with that).

If it makes sense, I'll also get a new DVD player that will output 1080i through component -- any suggestions? Would there be a big difference between component and HDMI for 1080i DVD output on the HS51? I guess I'd need an HDMI switch for the latter if I use HDMI for the HDTivo...

For these planned uses of the HS51 for HDTivo at 1080i over HDMI and XBOX and DVD over component, will the 720p issue be a showstopper, or will 1080i be as good/better? Since I'm used to an old projector, I'm not sure I would notice any difference.

Thanks for any feedback...
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post #1379 of 5686 Old 11-30-2004, 08:30 PM
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Some have suggested that feeding 1080i from some sources is better than feeding 720P for a display with a native 720P resolution, yes. But I do not believe anyone has determined concretely why this may be the case, not whether its an absolute condition.

Someone also suggested that the 1080i approach might be because the method for deinterlacing 1080i was to simply throw away a field, effectively creating a pseudo 540i, from which to deinterlace and thence create 720P from.

Being that Faroudja barely managed to come up with a superior deinterlacer for 1080P creation (from 1080i source), I somehow doubt the wealth of ability within an economy projection product will have the wherewithal to properly and robustly handle 1080i-->1080P without introducing artifacts.

Sure, it could look good to someone's eyes, and in reality that is all that counts, right? But what is your source is 720P to begin with?

When will D* stop pushing HD-Lite while charging us for full HD? Digital input on a CRT is a reality, not a possibility.
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post #1380 of 5686 Old 11-30-2004, 09:07 PM
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My HS51 just arrived at the UPS station in Maumee, Ohio, a mere 10 mintes away from me! I will be watching Empire Strikes Back on Wednesday!
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