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post #91 of 2757 Old 11-14-2004, 06:37 PM
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Does anyone else notice that the green panel seems to be the main culprit behind the VB? In the flicker tweak on my machine you can eliminate visible banding on the red and blue, but there is always a hint of it remaining on the green. The pattern of VB seen on the green looks a lot like the pattern of VB seen on the projected image.
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post #92 of 2757 Old 11-14-2004, 07:18 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by eme1
Hi TraderGordo,
I'm trying to use the Rage3d tweak instead of powerstrip, but when
I switch to 1280 x 720@60hz under the custom resolution tab , I only
get a blue screen from my projector (AE 700). I'm wondering if you can help
me out. Thanks a lot.

eme1

That is odd. What video card? Did it work with powerstrip? Try running "auto" on it even though its blue screened just to see what happens. I don't know why you would be getting a blue screen unless your video card is somehow not sending (or incapable of sending) a true 1280x720 60hz
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post #93 of 2757 Old 11-14-2004, 11:18 PM
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I have sacrificed brightness for increased contrast (I think). I noticed that my W-10 filter + AE-700 was too green for my taste so I added the FL-W filter. Significant loss in brightness but still very watchable. I will buy an adapter ring later so it would be very easy to remove the 2 lens if ever I want to watch with a little bit ambient light.

HTPC as source
Using video mode
70 mm Kenko W-10 filter (Blue filter)
70 mm Kenko FL-W filter (Green filter)
Brightness +2
Contrast +2
Contrast RGB (R=+3, G=+2, B=+3)
Brightness RGB (R=+3, G=+2, B=+3)
Dynamic iris on
Normal lamp mode
Pixel perfect using method shared above (auto mode, 1280 x 720p, reboot)

I am now on 50 hrs on my AE-700.
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post #94 of 2757 Old 11-15-2004, 08:09 AM
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For those of you who play games alot on their computer, here is something I noticed last night. I can get most resolutions to display from the computer via HDMI. I get flashes or flicker when I try to use anything higher than the native res of the projector. I decided to use the native res for all of my games. I did not get one flicker all night last night when I was playing. You can get them to display at 1280x720 by adjusting a file in each of the games. I did it by referencing Tiger Dave' widescreen gaming list. It was invaluable for this. I run Far Cry and Doom 3 with ALL settings maxed it looks beautiful at 1280x720. If you need to adjust the res in the game first, you can see it will default to 640x480 the first time on most games. DVI via HDMI is now no longer a problem for me. I can play whatever game I want at 1280x720 and it really looks awesome. I am in love again. There was a time when I working on the AE700 last week where I felt the picture quality advantages were being outweighed by the headache of a setup. I am finally happy to say I see no problems now with my projector. It took alot of work, but I will now try to leave it alone. Yeah right.....

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post #95 of 2757 Old 11-15-2004, 01:40 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by HMenke
Does anyone else notice that the green panel seems to be the main culprit behind the VB? In the flicker tweak on my machine you can eliminate visible banding on the red and blue, but there is always a hint of it remaining on the green. The pattern of VB seen on the green looks a lot like the pattern of VB seen on the projected image.

Yes, I have noticed this. Getting the green to stop flickering is the toughest of all the colors in the flicker tweak screen. I can get the blue and red completely flicker-free, but the green is always flickering a tad.
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post #96 of 2757 Old 11-15-2004, 01:45 PM
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Adjusting color:

Ok, so I am pretty clueless when it comes to adjusting color on this projector. I am using the Normal mode, because Natural just isn't bright enough for my setup. The colors are clearly off. A lot of people's lips are too pink, and some people's faces look like they are a bit sunburnt.

I've played with the tint, but adjusting it so that peoples faces look right screws up the color in everything else. I've also messed around with the color temp, but I can't seem to find the right setting.

What settings should I be messing with to reduce the over-pink hue of the projector in Normal mode? I would have thought taking some red out or lowering the tint would do this, but it is clearly more complicated than that.
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post #97 of 2757 Old 11-15-2004, 03:53 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by JamesAHall
Adjusting color:

Ok, so I am pretty clueless when it comes to adjusting color on this projector. I am using the Normal mode, because Natural just isn't bright enough for my setup. The colors are clearly off. A lot of people's lips are too pink, and some people's faces look like they are a bit sunburnt.

I've played with the tint, but adjusting it so that peoples faces look right screws up the color in everything else. I've also messed around with the color temp, but I can't seem to find the right setting.

What settings should I be messing with to reduce the over-pink hue of the projector in Normal mode? I would have thought taking some red out or lowering the tint would do this, but it is clearly more complicated than that.

When using Normal mode - don't be afraid to turn your color down 6 or 8 notches. Try it at least. Once you do this - color temp at "0" should work fine. or maybe - 1 for B&W films.
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post #98 of 2757 Old 11-15-2004, 04:40 PM
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Here are my current settings for all picture modes on Component input calibrated with DVE:

Video Mode
Contrast 0
Bright -5
Color -6
Tint 0
Sharp -6
Color Temp 0
Dyn Iris On (low lamp)

Natural
Contrast 0
Bright -5
Color 0
Tint -2
Sharp -6
Color Temp 0
Dyn Iris On (low lamp)

Normal
Contrast 0
Bright 0
Color -8
Tint +1
Sharp -6
Color Temp 0
Dyn Iris On (low lamp)

Dynamic
Contrast 0
Bright 0
Color -5
Tint +2
Sharp -9 (more agressive deafult edge enhancement this mode)
Color Temp 0
Dyn Iris On (low lamp)

Cinema1
Contrast 0
Bright -1
Color -2
Tint 0
Sharp -6
Color Temp 0
Dyn Iris On (low lamp)

Cinema2
Contrast 0
Bright -2
Color 0
Tint 0
Sharp -6
Color Temp 0
Dyn Iris On (low lamp)

Cinema3
Contrast 0
Bright -2
Color +10 (!)
Tint -6 (!)
Sharp -6
Color Temp 0
Dyn Iris On (low lamp)

Hope this helps.
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post #99 of 2757 Old 11-15-2004, 04:49 PM
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Thanks guys. I will definitely try turning down the color a bit in Normal mode.
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post #100 of 2757 Old 11-15-2004, 05:02 PM
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I'm becoming more and more a fan of Cinema2 mode as well - might want to try it out as well.
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post #101 of 2757 Old 11-15-2004, 06:15 PM
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HMenke or anyone, how are you getting -7 for sharpness? On my japanese ae 700 for some reason the sharpnesss (5th down right) only goes to -2
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post #102 of 2757 Old 11-15-2004, 06:27 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by HMenke
Here are my current settings for all picture modes on Component input calibrated with DVE:

Video Mode
Contrast 0
Bright -5
Color -6
Tint 0
Sharp -6
Color Temp 0
Dyn Iris On (low lamp)

Natural
Contrast 0
Bright -5
Color 0
Tint -2
Sharp -6
Color Temp 0
Dyn Iris On (low lamp)

Normal
Contrast 0
Bright 0
Color -8
Tint +1
Sharp -6
Color Temp 0
Dyn Iris On (low lamp)

Dynamic
Contrast 0
Bright 0
Color -5
Tint +2
Sharp -9 (more agressive deafult edge enhancement this mode)
Color Temp 0
Dyn Iris On (low lamp)

Cinema1
Contrast 0
Bright -1
Color -2
Tint 0
Sharp -6
Color Temp 0
Dyn Iris On (low lamp)

Cinema2
Contrast 0
Bright -2
Color 0
Tint 0
Sharp -6
Color Temp 0
Dyn Iris On (low lamp)

Cinema3
Contrast 0
Bright -2
Color +10 (!)
Tint -6 (!)
Sharp -6
Color Temp 0
Dyn Iris On (low lamp)

Hope this helps.

Amazing... for Normal and Cinema 1 - these are EXACTLY the same settings I use. ( I use component input and DVE as well)

I don't use Cinema3
But - look at these settings! (Guess that's why I don't use it.)
Color +10 (!)
Tint -6 (!)
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post #103 of 2757 Old 11-15-2004, 06:44 PM
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HMenke:
Have you changed any of the factory settings in the "Advance Menu" for:

Gamma R, G, B?

Contrast R, G, B?

Bright R, G, B?
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post #104 of 2757 Old 11-15-2004, 06:55 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by HMenke
Here are my current settings for all picture modes on Component input calibrated with DVE:

Video Mode
Contrast 0
Bright -5
Color -6
Tint 0
Sharp -6
Color Temp 0
Dyn Iris On (low lamp)

Natural
Contrast 0
Bright -5
Color 0
Tint -2
Sharp -6
Color Temp 0
Dyn Iris On (low lamp)

Normal
Contrast 0
Bright 0
Color -8
Tint +1
Sharp -6
Color Temp 0
Dyn Iris On (low lamp)

Dynamic
Contrast 0
Bright 0
Color -5
Tint +2
Sharp -9 (more agressive deafult edge enhancement this mode)
Color Temp 0
Dyn Iris On (low lamp)

Cinema1
Contrast 0
Bright -1
Color -2
Tint 0
Sharp -6
Color Temp 0
Dyn Iris On (low lamp)

Cinema2
Contrast 0
Bright -2
Color 0
Tint 0
Sharp -6
Color Temp 0
Dyn Iris On (low lamp)

Cinema3
Contrast 0
Bright -2
Color +10 (!)
Tint -6 (!)
Sharp -6
Color Temp 0
Dyn Iris On (low lamp)

Hope this helps.

You've probably addressed this somewhere else, but may I ask what type/size your screen is and what your room conditions are?



Stew

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post #105 of 2757 Old 11-15-2004, 07:06 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by amrod
HMenke or anyone, how are you getting -7 for sharpness? On my japanese ae 700 for some reason the sharpnesss (5th down right) only goes to -2

The Sharpness control is a bit odd - the adjustment range depends on the picture mode and on the input. So for example on Component for a given mode, Sharpness can go down -6 but on HDMI it can only go down to -4. An extreme example is Dynamic on Component: it goes to -9. I think there are some combinations where it only goes to -2.

Reminds me of This is Spinal Tap: "But this one goes to eleven!"
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post #106 of 2757 Old 11-15-2004, 07:19 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by John Ballentine
HMenke:
Have you changed any of the factory settings in the "Advance Menu" for:

Gamma R, G, B?

Contrast R, G, B?

Bright R, G, B?

Amazing... for Normal and Cinema 1 - these are EXACTLY the same settings I use. ( I use component input and DVE as well)

I don't use Cinema3
But - look at these settings! (Guess that's why I don't use it.)
Color +10 (!)
Tint -6 (!)

I have a feeling we have very similar preferences in our video! Even at the above settings, Cinema3 is still not very pleasing. Seems to be plagued by red push. I am not interested in trying to "fix" it when there are other much better modes. It would be cool if you could bypass the "bad" modes or if there turn out to be discrete codes for the modes.

I have not ventured into the Advanced Menu other than to study it. I am very interested in the gamma but I have to admit I don't understand the operation of those controls and what they do yet. I have a feeling the gamma settings might yield some dividends in improved black detail and in minimizing any white crush that may appear in some high contrast scenes. I would probably move all three colors together. I am a bit reluctant to vary settings for the individual colors because I am totally pleased with the overall color balance.

Did you notice on DVE that this PJ does not do well holding black at black when there is a high average picture level? As a result, I used the high average test pattern for setting the brightness. It was tough because neither of my DVD players pass 0 IRE. I used the graduated grey scale pattern to check the contrast. Seems that contrast is one setting that is best left at default 0 in all modes.

Tuesday morning from 8:00-8:10am eastern on HDNet they are broadcasting HD test patterns for 10 minutes. I have them set to record on my DVR. Tomorrow night I will use them to verify whether or not my HDMI settings should be the same as my component settings.
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post #107 of 2757 Old 11-15-2004, 07:29 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Stew4msu
You've probably addressed this somewhere else, but may I ask what type/size your screen is and what your room conditions are?

Screen size: 44H x 79W = 90" diagonal
Screen material: blackout cloth, 2-1/2" black velvet border
Room dimensions: 10-1/2' x 14-1/2'
Zoom: 1.34x
Throw: 13-1/2'
Lens shift: minimal
Keystone: none
Seating distance: 10' (1.5x screen width)
Ambient light: none
Walls: dark flat olive green
Ceiling: flat white
Carpet: light beige
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post #108 of 2757 Old 11-15-2004, 09:46 PM
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HMenke

I found using DVI to HDMI with a Accupel HD signal generator, the AE700 holds black level very well. So if you switch inputs from component to HDMI, you might want to recheck this. This is with dynamic Iris "on".

When I get a chance, I'll see how the component input handles black levels with changes in APL. I don't think it's affected by the signal source, but it would be interesting to verify that.

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post #109 of 2757 Old 11-16-2004, 03:33 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by JimP
I found using DVI to HDMI with a Accupel HD signal generator, the AE700 holds black level very well. So if you switch inputs from component to HDMI, you might want to recheck this. This is with dynamic Iris "on".

When I get a chance, I'll see how the component input handles black levels with changes in APL. I don't think it's affected by the signal source, but it would be interesting to verify that.

I look forward to your results on this.

When I get home tonight I should have some HD test patterns to play with that will be recorded on my DVR to check the HDMI input.

When I set the brightness control (black level) on Component input with DVE, at first I used the low APL pattern. Since my DVD player doesn't pass 0 IRE, I used the method where you set the 7.5 IRE bar to be barely visible against the background. But when I switched to the high APL pattern, the 7.5 IRE bar was totally washed out. Switching between the two patterns, it was clear that the black level was jumping up on the high APL pattern. I had to bring the brightness control up a couple of notches to make it barely visible again. This is why I am interested in the gamma controls. I am wondering if the low gamma control can have some effect on the ability of the PJ to hold black.
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post #110 of 2757 Old 11-16-2004, 04:42 AM
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HMenke

Gamma should be helpful for adjusting mid tones. Probably isn't going to affect "black level".

Did you have a similar problem with this DVD player and another display?

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post #111 of 2757 Old 11-16-2004, 05:19 AM
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Yes, my DVD player (Pioneer DV-563A) will not pass 0 IRE to my 32" CRT either. It's inconvenient but not insurmountable.

If you know, what exactly is the gamma and how does adjusting it affect the picture?
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post #112 of 2757 Old 11-16-2004, 07:53 AM
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Thank you thank you thank you to whomever recommended *slightly* de-focusing the projector to remove the 'peek-a-boo' scan lines.

The PaB issue was my only 'problem' with my 700...until last night, when I just very slightly unfocused the projector. *poof*...no more scan lines. It was like magic. Spent an hour and a half re-watching my favorite movie scenes and looking for scan lines. Saw, maybe 2 scenes in the entire hour and a half that caused the lines to appear for a fraction of a second. (This is opposed to them contantly being seen in every scene that had viertical motion in it). To say I'm thrilled would be a huge understatement. The images is just stunningly, amazingly, fantastically 'film-like'. Sorry for the cheese.

Also...color wise, I've done some fiddling, but I'm pretty happy w/ the default settings when watching HDTV. Some really minor tweaks, but nothing worth posting. However, my DVD player's picture (LiteOn 2001) has been a bit 'dull' looking. I increased the 'saturation' setting on my player two notches and *pow* another big jump in improvement. Finding Nemo now looks like it's supposed to.

Good evening for me - two for two last night on the tweaking experiments.
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post #113 of 2757 Old 11-16-2004, 08:23 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by HMenke
Yes, my DVD player (Pioneer DV-563A) will not pass 0 IRE to my 32" CRT either. It's inconvenient but not insurmountable.

If you know, what exactly is the gamma and how does adjusting it affect the picture?

Gamma on my Sony GWIII works this way. By changing the gamma number in the service menu, you could lighten the range of shades between absolute black and absolute white, but not absolute black and absolute white. The amount of change is greater in the darker shades and as you progressed to the lighter shades, the amount of change lessens. By increasing and decreasing gamma, you affect the amount of difference.

I think in theory, gamma adjustments are intended to give you the tool to adjust the amount of difference between each IRE level so that your display matches what was originally recorded.

One thing that I'd like to mention is that I'm not so sure that a perfectly calibrated display according to signal generators, O' scopes, etc. actually create a image that is the way we perceive real life. i.e. in an outdoor scene under bright light, we really don't see shadow detail in some rocks. To adjust your display to see this detail would also remove some of the "punch or snap" you see. With this statement, its almost like I'm inviting a huge discussion on calibration, but I'm not. All I'm saying is to take a look at your picture and ask yourself if it looks real or not.

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post #114 of 2757 Old 11-16-2004, 08:46 AM
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JimP,

I think I am following you on this. If I can re-state your explanation (to see if I am on track with you):

There is a fixed black and a fixed white (as a given). With gamma in the "center", essentially you have 50% gray in the middle of the range. If you "lower' the gamma, you are moving the 50% gray point down scale more toward black. Therefore, there are more "graduations" of tone between that 50% gray point and white, and fewer between that 50% gray point and black. Is that right?
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post #115 of 2757 Old 11-16-2004, 09:08 AM
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HMenke

Close.

Visualize a graph with XY coordinates. Let white be 10, 10 and black 0,0.

There is a diagonal line from 10,10 to 0,0

White(10,10) is where the diagonal line is locked. By changing the gamma, you changed the slope. Absolute black stays at 0,0.

Hey, this is confusing to me. If this doesn't make sense, let me know and I'll try again.

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post #116 of 2757 Old 11-16-2004, 10:26 AM
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Ahh..OK, got it. Thanks for the explanation!
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post #117 of 2757 Old 11-16-2004, 10:33 AM
 
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HMenke: The washout of the black bars in the higher APL pattern is unlikely to be caused by a float in black levels per se, but rather washout from low ANSI contrast in the room. I would probably maximize the available on/off contrast you have by using the lowest APL pattern you can to set black levels, though you may sacrifice some shadow detail in higher APL scenes due to your room and projectors ANSI limitations.
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post #118 of 2757 Old 11-16-2004, 11:57 AM
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amrod,
6th down right on the japenese model is color temperature, not sharpness. It looks the same as the adjustments on the English model, but in Japenese.....
you probably mistook 6th for 5th.....

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post #119 of 2757 Old 11-16-2004, 02:23 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by ChrisWiggles
HMenke: The washout of the black bars in the higher APL pattern is unlikely to be caused by a float in black levels per se, but rather washout from low ANSI contrast in the room. I would probably maximize the available on/off contrast you have by using the lowest APL pattern you can to set black levels, though you may sacrifice some shadow detail in higher APL scenes due to your room and projectors ANSI limitations.

Hmmm...that's a pretty interesting point. I can see how the high APL brightness could be reflected from the room back onto the screen to give the impression that the black level jumped up. Therefore, as you say, I should go back to the low APL pattern, set black for maximum low level detail, in order to better appreciate low APL program material. Under high APL material, shadow detail will be overcome by room reflections anyway, so there's no point to setting black using the high APL pattern.

Interesting...I had read that the Sony black screen primarily benefitted rooms with ambient light, however given the above discussion, it could also benefit a room with no ambient light by nevertheless suppressing room reflections off the screen.
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post #120 of 2757 Old 11-16-2004, 10:29 PM
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I am totally guessing.

Use the left right up and down arrows. Then toggle colors with the round button in the middle of the arrows.

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