PLV-Z3 Tweak Thread - Page 13 - AVS Forum
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post #361 of 922 Old 07-12-2005, 07:26 PM
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Jeremy, I was just going to ask about your current setting after adding CC10Y filter. I just got my CC20R & CC10Y. Using ROne settings for starters, I was surprised to see better overall pq. It just seems smoother and more vivid. These filters/attenuator and coach shaker is probably the best cheapest tweak I did...money well spent.

Do you use the same settings when watching live sports in hdtv?

I did not use the scotch tape way. I had left over matting and backing boards from picture framing and I fashioned a filter holder out of it. It's not as snug as the lens protector but it holds the filter. And easy to take out without touching the filters.
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post #362 of 922 Old 07-12-2005, 07:39 PM
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I haven't seen a reason to change settings for sports so far, and I've seen football, baseball, soccer, rugby, surfing, BMX and auto racing on it in HD. I'm putting the posted settings through the ringer right now with some varying material, but I'm happy with it as is. For anyone who feels that Powerful crushes a bit at the upper IREs, Dynamic is definitely a good option.

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post #363 of 922 Old 07-13-2005, 09:30 PM
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Since many folks have been offering their setups, here's mine:

Throw distance: 14.5 feet

diagonal image (1.85 picture) = 122" (106.5" long and 59.5" height).

I'm projecting straight onto my wall, which has a light beige paint coat.

Settings are all factory pre-set, with lamp on "theater black" and picture on "natural".

That's it, and wow i'm getting a helluva picture, believe it or not.
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post #364 of 922 Old 07-13-2005, 09:59 PM
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I believe it. When I saw milt9's, he didn't change any settings either and was getting a great picture. He was using a 100" diagonal, 4:3, HCMW screen, partially extended (pull-down screen) to 16:9 format.

- Claus {non-Santa model}
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post #365 of 922 Old 07-14-2005, 07:27 AM
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Last night I inputted the settings Jeremy has just provided on the last page starting with Dynamic preset and using the Lee cc10y and cc20r filters.

Watched Spartacus on it and also viewed various 720p wallpapers on it from my HTPC. It is very difficult to see the difference to the powerful preset settings except in light parts of the picture when i flipped between the two settings then i could see the bright parts were less intense. By my eyes the reduction was only by a very small percentage but was worthwhile. Contrast seemed to have been improved marginally as well although this may be a misperception (actually i think its the contrast enhancement in effect - have now turned it on for the powerful preset derived settings as well).

To sum up: Excellent PQ as per previous settings and definitely improved if only slightly. The Z3 is undoubtedly with these settings much better than its competition and im very glad my demo's lead me to buy the Z3.

Now to see what ROne makes of it!

Thanks Jeremy

Sanyo Z3.5 (Z3+LEE Filters!) Email me for z3.5 filters/instructions
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post #366 of 922 Old 07-16-2005, 01:15 AM
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have any of you seen VB on your Z3's? any had it initially but now its gone after a certain amt of hours? or never had it?

and where is the best place to buy the CC20R and CC10Y filters?

thanks!

I dream of a better tomorrow... where chickens can cross roads and not have their motives questioned.
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post #367 of 922 Old 07-16-2005, 06:57 AM
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I never had any VB. There is some discussion in this thread on where to find filters. I got mine a Henry's Photo in Toronto and I sure B and H Camera has them too.
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post #368 of 922 Old 07-16-2005, 07:37 AM
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I got mine from B&H. I hope they corrected the description on CC20R filter. Look at the part# instead of the description.
LL
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post #369 of 922 Old 07-16-2005, 07:18 PM
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Does anyone besides me see shadows of bright objects shown in a dark/black screen .. When a movie starts for instance and the only thing on the screen is white text (noticed it watching the beginning of before the sunset).. I tried tuching the edge of the filters and then saw that the shadows moved .. The weird thing is that my filters seem flat and yet they still cause a "double-image" .. Has anyone experienced this? Best way to see it is like i said: a dark picture with a source of bright light ..
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post #370 of 922 Old 07-16-2005, 07:48 PM
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That's the reflection of the filter back int the lens. I had that problem bud stopped it by making the lens flush with the filter. Which filter are you using? The glass one of the gels?
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post #371 of 922 Old 07-16-2005, 08:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnykretentiv View Post

That's the reflection of the filter back int the lens. I had that problem bud stopped it by making the lens flush with the filter. Which filter are you using? The glass one of the gels?

I´m using two gelfilters sandwiched together (not glass).. What exactly do you mean by lens flush?
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post #372 of 922 Old 07-16-2005, 08:25 PM
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I have the filter really close to the lens. I have 4 little rubber stoppers on the filter (mine has a metal ring on it) and have them touching the lens so there is almost no space between the lens and the glass filter that I am using. I had that problem before I moved the filter closer to the lens.
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post #373 of 922 Old 07-20-2005, 07:59 AM
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Hey gang, i added this thread to the Forum Faq. Sorry I missed it the first time around. The Z3 is actually on my short list for my next machine, so I'm paying attention

Someday maybe I'll actually WATCH my projector...
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post #374 of 922 Old 07-29-2005, 05:40 PM
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Bump. I'm curious to know whether ROne was able to achieve any measurable improvement with the heavier yellow filter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ROne View Post

Some interesting things in those charts and settings, I notice the BLUE at the lower end is by far the biggest problem. I think CR can easily be reached at 1400:1 irrespective of filter use with the Z3, using A1 and a well calibrated unit will be close to 1300,1400:1 before filter use. My numbers with SMART have demonstrated this.

So what can we do? Well I think that killing more of that BLUE is the key - I am going to get a heavier YELLOW filter, say a CC40Y or more just to see what it does to that bottom end.

Also why have they needed to lift RED offset, there seems to be plent of red at the bottom end?

The numbers and results we have achieved so far between us have produced a great picture and I am almost tempted to stop at this point. But I am also tempted to by a true colour measuring device such as opticONE to find out what is really going on.

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post #375 of 922 Old 07-31-2005, 11:47 AM
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Sorry I've been away for a while, will see if I can get the extra yellow this week, will report back!

AE2000here.


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post #376 of 922 Old 08-03-2005, 09:47 PM
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Does anyone know what the lumen output is using the Dynamic and Theater Black filtered settings are? Wondering which screen material for a 102" diag?

Moe
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post #377 of 922 Old 08-04-2005, 02:09 AM
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i have been watching this thread, and help me to pick the Z3 over 700 Panny.
i receievd my Z3 monday, wow, very happy.
i have tried all the suggested Settings.
jeremy's powerful settings so far, are the best.
I'm from Australia,
I am trying the Dymanic settings tonight,
trying to find the CC filters is more difficult here.
Looking forward to see what else you guys come up with.

GezzaZ3
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post #378 of 922 Old 08-05-2005, 02:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GezzaZ3 View Post

i have been watching this thread, and help me to pick the Z3 over 700 Panny.
i receievd my Z3 monday, wow, very happy.
i have tried all the suggested Settings.
jeremy's powerful settings so far, are the best.
I'm from Australia,
I am trying the Dymanic settings tonight,
trying to find the CC filters is more difficult here.
Looking forward to see what else you guys come up with.

GezzaZ3

There's very little in it between dynamic and powerful to my eyes but i think dynamic is slightly less harsh in bright areas so personally I have stuck with that

Send me a PM if you cant find the colour correction filters over there and I will send you some from London.

Sanyo Z3.5 (Z3+LEE Filters!) Email me for z3.5 filters/instructions
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post #379 of 922 Old 08-05-2005, 04:38 PM
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Hi Sainthalo,

What happened to Rone and Jeremy??

Why did this thread stop, did they go some where else???

It was just getting interesting.

I have sent you a PM.

thanks

gezzaz3
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post #380 of 922 Old 08-05-2005, 05:55 PM
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I don't know about Rone, but my last settings with the filters are pretty solid for me... so I've stopped tweaking and watched a buttload of movies. Just spun Sin City last weekend, and was awestruck by how good the picture was. Rone was still going to play with stronger yellow filters, so I'm waiting to see what he comes up with.

"Never believe any quote you read on the internet." - Abraham Lincoln
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post #381 of 922 Old 08-05-2005, 07:01 PM
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Hi Jeremy,

Can you tell me what is the purpose of overscan?

I'm not sure what it does or what it purpose is.

I have just purchased a DVD Upscaler so, i am interested in what 720P & 1080i looks like.

I believe some dvd players push green, so finding the right dvd player, is also a task.

would i still see a beinfit using only the CC20R or do you need both red and yellow. i'm finding yellow very hard to get in Australia.

I am asking Saithalo about the Filters.

did you just tape the filters on??

thanks

Gezzaz3.
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post #382 of 922 Old 08-05-2005, 10:26 PM
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Can someone post pics of how they put the filters ?

Where can i get those filters for cheap ?


b&H is out of the 3x3 and 4x4's Lee brand


Thanks !





Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremy Anderson View Post

Several people have mentioned that starting in POWERFUL mode caused harsh highlights and that DYNAMIC mode seemed better. So last night, I fiddled with starting in DYNAMIC mode instead of POWERFUL. I used the same settings as before and just tweaked contrast, brightness and color with DVE to compensate for the difference in levels. I have to say that using Dynamic as a starting point does seem to make faces appear more natural and seems to bring out shadow detail a bit better (which I evaluated with the movie BELOW since it has lots of faces in shadows). Also, once I tweaked contrast to just under clipping, 100IRE didn't seem much different in Dynamic mode than my Powerful settings... but 90IRE wasn't as bright. That is likely the difference between the modes, since it seems to be using a different gamma curve (though Rone can probably evaluate the difference in gamma and verify this with his SMART III).

Dynamic mode defaults so that Transient Improvement and Contrast Enhancement are on. I fiddled with the TI setting, only to find that using it at all made resolution charts less smooth and produced a moire pattern on Avia's circle pattern (though it did make text more legible), so I turned TI off. Contrast Enhancement, however, produced some interesting results. It seems that what this does (and I'm guessing here) is vary black level depending on the average picture level (something that many televisions do). For instance, on Avia's black bars pattern I adjusted brightness so I could just see both bars... but once I moved to the half-grey black bars pattern only one bar was visible. On the half-white black bars pattern neither bar was visible. With CE off, the black bars remained visible on each pattern. Ultimately, I left CE on, then adjusted contrast and brightness with DVE.

I then had three saved presets: my tweaked Dynamic with CE turned on, my tweaked Powerful with CE turned on, and my tweaked Powerful without CE. Again, using the movie BELOW as well as THE INCREDIBLES, I evaluated how each handled the brightest and darkest scenes, pausing certain parts and toggling between the modes. Dynamic does seem to blow out whites a bit less than either of the Powerful modes but it doesn't seem any less bright. Once tweaked, there was only a slight difference between Powerful and Powerful with CE turned on, though you could definitely tell that CE was bringing up the lower IREs a bit in the darker scenes. All in all, I liked what Contrast Enhancement was doing for very dark scenes so I left it on. When I switched back to my HDTV feed, the difference was very pleasing. I also spun CONSTANTINE with the tweaked Dynamic settings and really liked the way it looked.

So, my current (and I think final) settings with the CC20R and CC10Y filters in place, v1.00 firmware, and 1dB attenuator on the Cr lead (only necessary if you're using component) are:
Start with Dynamic mode
Contrast +9
Brightness 0
Color +2
Tint +1




Color Temp User
Red +2
Green +2
Blue +1
Sharpness -4
Gamma -1
Lamp Theater Black
Iris -38
Gain R +6
Gain G -2
Gain B 0
Off R -13
Off G 0
Off B -12
Gam R 0
Gam G 0
Gam B 0
Auto Black Stretch On
Contrast Enhance L1
Transient Improvement Off
Overscan +6


----------------------------------------------
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post #383 of 922 Old 08-05-2005, 11:27 PM
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Hi all,

I had a question,

why does the Z3 only put out 1400 contrast after Major Tweaking, if it states 2000.

Is there an industry standard for measuring Contrast.

If so, how do they claim 2000: 1 when out of the box it is 1100:1.

Why not put 3000:1 if it can't be reproduced it's a lie.

Sad fact. people buy on specs, i know i did, seeing 2000:1 Vrs 1300:1 help me choose the Z3.

I am very happy with the Z3 and as soon as i get my filters, i will be much happier.

GezzaZ3
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post #384 of 922 Old 08-06-2005, 01:14 AM
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I bet I could get to 2000:1 by starting with powerful, leaving the lamp in high mode, opening the iris all the way, turning contrast all the way up and turning brightess all the way down .

FWIW, I copied Johnny's settings (including the filter) but started from Dynamic and I am DONE tweaking. My screen is an 84" Carada High Contrast Grey. The Powerful setting was TOO BRIGHT.
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post #385 of 922 Old 08-06-2005, 12:49 PM
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I just got my Z3 this weekend (upgraded from my Panny 75u). Can anyone post their preferred settings for Component NON-Filtered? I have tried some of the setting in this thread, but most are for HDMI or Component with filter. Is anyone getting a nice contrasty picture without filter?

Don't get me wrong, I see excellent improvement in all areas from my 75U, and with a good transfer DVD or HDTV, the picture looks awesome, but so-so transfers (like The first Harry Potter movie) look bad in many of the darker scenes. I have been using this movie to try different settings. If I can get this transfer to look good, everything else should look even better.

I am running a Panasonic S97S via component cables with 480p output.

Thanks,

Rob
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post #386 of 922 Old 08-06-2005, 08:34 PM
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Hi Rob,

I have tried all the setting, also without Filters.

I have settled on Jeremy, Starting with Powerful.

Why do run at 480P when you could upscale to 720P or 1080I?

you would have to use a HDMI cable,

I have just Purchased an Upscaler dvd player, I'm hoping for better results also.

I am also trying to contact Sainthalo regarding the Filters.

Thanks

GezzaZ3.
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post #387 of 922 Old 08-07-2005, 07:06 AM
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I've had my Z3 for about a month but I've been unable to get aroudn to running Avia on it until last night.

Its in a totally light controlled room using component and I started with creative cinema, theatre black. I left the iris at the default (-30 maybe?).

The following settinsg were changed:

contrast: +9
Brightness -2
sharpness -2
color +7

Then here it gets scary

The red push is 25%!

I am looking for suggestions to get this down without screwing anything else up.

Frank J. Cone

XBox Live / Steam: FCONE

Please do not form any opinion of the content of this post, it is still in BETA.

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post #388 of 922 Old 08-07-2005, 08:02 AM
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Thanks for the replies!

I do not have a long enough HDMI cable right now, and I am switching component through my receiver. I had read that going HDMI over component is not that big a difference in many cases.

I will give your setting a shot Frank although contrast of 9 sounds high, but I wil ltry anything since it is new.

Thanks,

Rob
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post #389 of 922 Old 08-12-2005, 01:22 PM
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Other then B&H who else sells these filters ? B&H are out of stock for the cheaper stuff...

I really dont want to pay more then 12 bucks for a filter.

----------------------------------------------
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post #390 of 922 Old 08-16-2005, 08:21 PM
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Hello,

I'm sorry for coming late to this party; I'll be brief.

Is the upshot of this (excellent) series of settings and recommendations that, if I get the 1db attenuator (I use component), the referenced Yellow and Red filters (tape them in front of my Z3 lens), and start with the settings below (or similar ones), I should see a big improvement in contrast and color?

Is it that simple?

Thanks,

Tiger

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremy Anderson View Post

Several people have mentioned that starting in POWERFUL mode caused harsh highlights and that DYNAMIC mode seemed better. So last night, I fiddled with starting in DYNAMIC mode instead of POWERFUL. I used the same settings as before and just tweaked contrast, brightness and color with DVE to compensate for the difference in levels. I have to say that using Dynamic as a starting point does seem to make faces appear more natural and seems to bring out shadow detail a bit better (which I evaluated with the movie BELOW since it has lots of faces in shadows). Also, once I tweaked contrast to just under clipping, 100IRE didn't seem much different in Dynamic mode than my Powerful settings... but 90IRE wasn't as bright. That is likely the difference between the modes, since it seems to be using a different gamma curve (though Rone can probably evaluate the difference in gamma and verify this with his SMART III).

Dynamic mode defaults so that Transient Improvement and Contrast Enhancement are on. I fiddled with the TI setting, only to find that using it at all made resolution charts less smooth and produced a moire pattern on Avia's circle pattern (though it did make text more legible), so I turned TI off. Contrast Enhancement, however, produced some interesting results. It seems that what this does (and I'm guessing here) is vary black level depending on the average picture level (something that many televisions do). For instance, on Avia's black bars pattern I adjusted brightness so I could just see both bars... but once I moved to the half-grey black bars pattern only one bar was visible. On the half-white black bars pattern neither bar was visible. With CE off, the black bars remained visible on each pattern. Ultimately, I left CE on, then adjusted contrast and brightness with DVE.

I then had three saved presets: my tweaked Dynamic with CE turned on, my tweaked Powerful with CE turned on, and my tweaked Powerful without CE. Again, using the movie BELOW as well as THE INCREDIBLES, I evaluated how each handled the brightest and darkest scenes, pausing certain parts and toggling between the modes. Dynamic does seem to blow out whites a bit less than either of the Powerful modes but it doesn't seem any less bright. Once tweaked, there was only a slight difference between Powerful and Powerful with CE turned on, though you could definitely tell that CE was bringing up the lower IREs a bit in the darker scenes. All in all, I liked what Contrast Enhancement was doing for very dark scenes so I left it on. When I switched back to my HDTV feed, the difference was very pleasing. I also spun CONSTANTINE with the tweaked Dynamic settings and really liked the way it looked.

So, my current (and I think final) settings with the CC20R and CC10Y filters in place, v1.00 firmware, and 1dB attenuator on the Cr lead (only necessary if you're using component) are:
Start with Dynamic mode
Contrast +9
Brightness 0
Color +2
Tint +1
Color Temp User
Red +2
Green +2
Blue +1
Sharpness -4
Gamma -1
Lamp Theater Black
Iris -38
Gain R +6
Gain G -2
Gain B 0
Off R -13
Off G 0
Off B -12
Gam R 0
Gam G 0
Gam B 0
Auto Black Stretch On
Contrast Enhance L1
Transient Improvement Off
Overscan +6

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