PLV-Z3 Tweak Thread - Page 25 - AVS Forum
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post #721 of 922 Old 01-06-2006, 08:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msink View Post

How large of a filter do I need? My Z3 will be here soon. Would this work?

http://www.camcor.com/cgi-bin/cat/id=1059683538

That should work. Seems a little pricey though to me. I paid like $8 for my CC20R filter at a photo shop.
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post #722 of 922 Old 01-07-2006, 09:31 PM
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When you upscale a dvdmovie from 576p to 720p, are the colors still the same or do they change somehow?
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post #723 of 922 Old 01-08-2006, 04:48 AM
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I thought DVD movies were 480?
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post #724 of 922 Old 01-08-2006, 09:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpyGuy311 View Post

I thought DVD movies were 480?

Yes, NTSC movies are but not PAL .. Anyway, I heard something about colors changing when you upscale your picture to 720p .. I´m not sure if that´s true or not but considering that my picture seems more dull now that I am upscaling it to 720p with my new oppo player that might in fact be true?
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post #725 of 922 Old 01-09-2006, 10:32 PM
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I just got an Oppo player a few days ago and it is now obvious that the Z3 doesn't handle standard def color (rec 601) correctly. I think it always displays HD color matrix (Rec 709) as it always displays 1280x720 no matter your input res. The oppo and my powerbook over DVI both exhibit incorrect color, most obviously green depression, changing resolutions doesn't matter, I get the same results in 480p, 720p, 1080i. I had previously calibrated over component with a Pioneer 47ai (Powerful with cc30r, tracked grayscale with Spyder2) and tweaked the service menu red and green colors to correct for red push and green depression. These are the symptoms of displaying 601 in 709. Unfortunately you cannot change these service menu items over HDMI, so I'm stuck with bad color. Unless anyone has any great ideas I will probably return the Oppo and stick with a component connection.

Is anyone else having similar problems? Is there any recourse with Sanyo? I've emailed Oppo and their player is correctly converting color matrixes. I checked Apple's DVD player to a DVI Dell monitor and color bars were perfect. So I think the Z3 is the culprit. I hope there is some Service Menu item that can magically switch this.

On an interesting calibration note starting in Dynamic gave me much better fleshtones than starting in Powerful over HDMI. The Powerful cal everyone was washed out and a little green. Not sure if I lost any contrast. I'm using HDMI L1.
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post #726 of 922 Old 01-10-2006, 01:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kylek23 View Post

I just got an Oppo player a few days ago and it is now obvious that the Z3 doesn't handle standard def color (rec 601) correctly. I think it always displays HD color matrix (Rec 709) as it always displays 1280x720 no matter your input res.

Oppo and Z3 works correctly and displays correct color without any green depression. Z3 HDMI and component color is different. I have nothing more to say about this.

Please note that oppo has not yet fixed PAL issues. Some of those dont affect Z3 but even with Z3 you need to adjust brightness -3 - -2 - -3 when you play PAL to get correct levels.
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post #727 of 922 Old 01-10-2006, 09:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jriihi View Post

Please note that oppo has not yet fixed PAL issues. Some of those dont affect Z3 but even with Z3 you need to adjust brightness -3 - -2 - -3 when you play PAL to get correct levels.

what do you mean with these values -3 - -2 - -3, are those settings on the dvdplayer or the z3?
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post #728 of 922 Old 01-10-2006, 06:55 PM
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SpyGuy311; I finally snapped a shot of PGR3 the other night. Sorry for the delay. See the attached photo. I think you will be at easy as I was in fact able to reproduce the anomalies you saw (ie. jaggies). Though I don't really see them in the game itself or while racing; they are evident while walking around the garage.
LL
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post #729 of 922 Old 01-11-2006, 05:23 AM
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Ah good. I thought I was going nuts. I've noticed that some cars have more prominent jaggies than others too. Yeah, while racing they aren't very noticeable. It's just that I saw them in the garage (and this is the only 360 game I have with them) and when I questioned it on XBOX forums, most people said there are no jaggies at all. Thanks for the pic
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post #730 of 922 Old 01-11-2006, 05:23 AM
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Well I guess either my Z3 or my oppo are defective. I measured the DVE green primary over HDMI at .315, .664, which is way off from the 709 spec, red and blue were off too. All I ever did in service menus were Jeremy's color decoder tweaks for component (do not affect hdmi, restored default values with same results). Anyway I'm returning the oppo and will try a Panasonic s97, see if that works correctly. This is all NTSC. I'm at oppo firmware 1111B and 1.01 on z3.
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post #731 of 922 Old 01-11-2006, 05:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tompa39 View Post

what do you mean with these values -3 - -2 - -3, are those settings on the dvdplayer or the z3?

For oppo dvd player. That is you need to adjust it every time or it doesnt work correctly. You can see how image changes when you do that. -3 brightness -> -2 brightness -> -3 brightness.
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post #732 of 922 Old 01-11-2006, 05:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kylek23 View Post

Well I guess either my Z3 or my oppo are defective.

Yep.
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post #733 of 922 Old 01-11-2006, 05:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jriihi View Post

For oppo dvd player. That is you need to adjust it every time or it doesnt work correctly. You can see how image changes when you do that. -3 brightness -> -2 brightness -> -3 brightness.


Do you use ROne´s setting on the z3 with the cc30r filter or something else?
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post #734 of 922 Old 01-11-2006, 07:38 AM
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Firstly, I would like to say thank you very much Saint. I received the filter in great condition, so thank you very much!

Secondly, can anyone recommend some kind of lens holder that I can jimmy to hold the cc30R filter? I live in Canada and am willing to buy or modify something to work with the Z3.

Thanks again Saint, you are a class act.

Them: I could hardly tell the difference between HiDef and standard definition on my 27" LCD...
Me: Hmmmmm, wonder why that is... (sarcasm)
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post #735 of 922 Old 01-11-2006, 10:30 AM
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Well now I'm curious about how my Z3 got screwed up. I vaguely remember the color being correct when I first got it using a Powerbook DVI connection. Is some kind of bad digital hand shaking happening? The last source the DVI-HDMI cable was hooked up to was my sattelite receiver (dish 811). I switched the cable while the Z3 was off, but not completely powered down by the power switch on the back. Maybe some bad data is stuck in the connection. I'm going to try to power cycle it tonight and see if anything changes. Thanks for the assurance that at least the color should be correct. I would love to keep the oppo if I can figure this out.
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post #736 of 922 Old 01-11-2006, 10:57 AM
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I haven't received my filters yet but I did buy two pieces of 4X5, thin, picture framing glass. I'm going to place the filters between the glass so I can easily move them in and out of the light path.
I don't know if the glass will create light loss, distortion, or reflection problems, but it only cost $2 and shouldn't hurt the filters.
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post #737 of 922 Old 01-11-2006, 12:39 PM
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Hi there, I think I would like to try and just use some kind of plastic lid that I can permanently affix the filter to. That way I can install and remove the filter easily, but without adding any layers to the equation. I have heard of some people being able to find packaged goods that have a screw-on lid that is basically the same size as the housing for the lens. All they did was remove the innards and affixed the filter (like a camera lens cap). I would LOVE to have someone recommend on that they already know fits.

Cheers

Them: I could hardly tell the difference between HiDef and standard definition on my 27" LCD...
Me: Hmmmmm, wonder why that is... (sarcasm)
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post #738 of 922 Old 01-11-2006, 05:12 PM
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I'm still holding my filter on my Z3 the old fashion way. With scotch tape.

Hey it works.

I wish I would have kept that lens protector thing that shipped with this! I think I could have made that work for me; as far as a filter holder.
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post #739 of 922 Old 01-11-2006, 05:51 PM
 
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[quote=Italia_NYC]I'm still holding my filter on my Z3 the old fashion way. With scotch tape.



LOL............. ME TO ....
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post #740 of 922 Old 01-12-2006, 05:15 AM
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sigh.. I took my filters off again last night after watching a movie and getting reflective glare in some scenes. I thought I had them as straight as possible, but I guess it's really picky. Anyone else have this problem? It was like when something bright was on the screen, it would somehow reflect and show up somewhere else like a ghost because of the LEE filters. Really need to find a good trick to mount these
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post #741 of 922 Old 01-12-2006, 08:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpyGuy311 View Post

sigh.. I took my filters off again last night after watching a movie and getting reflective glare in some scenes. I thought I had them as straight as possible, but I guess it's really picky. Anyone else have this problem? It was like when something bright was on the screen, it would somehow reflect and show up somewhere else like a ghost because of the LEE filters. Really need to find a good trick to mount these

It was like that for me aswell when I used the cc20r and cc10y filters .. The problem disappeared when I got the cc30r though
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post #742 of 922 Old 01-12-2006, 01:01 PM
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Saint, or ROne I have a question about the CCR30 settings...

Am I to assume that any setting that is not listed in the instructions that you sent saint which are copied from ROne are supposed to be left at whatever the Z3 was set to from starting with the powerful setting? For example color temp and color.

Also are there any reasons or advantages to not using the CC30R filters always, saint talks about setting the naturals and the filter settings, but why? Isn't the CC30R the best possible refrence look you can acquired with the z3 in your opinion. What purpose would it be not to use it always?


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post #743 of 922 Old 01-13-2006, 05:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tompa39 View Post

It was like that for me aswell when I used the cc20r and cc10y filters .. The problem disappeared when I got the cc30r though

Must be when the 2 don't have 100% contact all over.
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post #744 of 922 Old 01-13-2006, 10:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpyGuy311 View Post

sigh.. I took my filters off again last night after watching a movie and getting reflective glare in some scenes. I thought I had them as straight as possible, but I guess it's really picky. Anyone else have this problem? It was like when something bright was on the screen, it would somehow reflect and show up somewhere else like a ghost because of the LEE filters. Really need to find a good trick to mount these

I have the same problem with the Lee filter, which is strange because I never had a problem when I had the CC20R and CC10Y Kodak filters in front of the lens. I may get a CC30R from Kodak to replace my Lee just to see if the gel material reflects less than the polyester that Lee uses.

I did, however, find a way to eliminate the problem. You have to mount the filter so that it is angled in front of the lens (so it doesn't reflect straight back into the lens). I did this by cutting the filter down a bit and taping the bottom edge of the filter directly to the focus ring (carefully, and after tight focus). The top is taped to the housing of the Z3 with a little excess tape, so the filter sits further away at the top. It only takes a slight angle to kill the reflections. It isn't an elegant solution, but it works.

Thedarksyde, ROne didn't list color because the color control is disabled when using HDMI (because color is digitally correct and not using the analog restoration of component/composite/S-video). If you're using component, the same general settings apply, but you should be using a calibration disc to properly determine brightness, contrast, sharpness and color/tint. Color temp will be USER, since you're changing the RGB settings.

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post #745 of 922 Old 01-15-2006, 09:28 AM
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This question is intended for Jeremy, but anyone who can answer this please feel free to do so.

I would like to use both component and HDMI inputs on the Z3. However, as i understand it, the color decoder needs to be tweaked when using the component inputs. If I use the service menu tweaks to correct the color decoder, will this effect the color decoder when i use HDMI? or does the service menu tweak not effect the color decoding in HDMI mode?

Will getting a -1 db attenuator on the red component input eliminate the need for any of those service menu tweaks for correct color decoding?

Thanks,

Bill
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post #746 of 922 Old 01-15-2006, 11:43 PM
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The 1dB attenuator will eliminate the red push, but the service menu tweaks also let you line up green as well. If you're not comfortable going into the service menu, then the 1dB attenuator is a must.

No, the service menu tweaks do NOT affect HDMI, because the color decoder isn't used on a digital connection. The reason you have a color decoder is to recreate color from the analog signal of composite/S-video/component video. With a digital connection (DVI, HDMI), the color levels are sent as a digital value instead of having to be decoded. In other words, so long as your source doesn't mess with the colors, you should get accurate color from HDMI.

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post #747 of 922 Old 01-16-2006, 06:15 AM
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Could you please repost the service menu tweaks and a link to the 1db attenuator? Or must I go searching through the pages?


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post #748 of 922 Old 01-16-2006, 07:44 AM
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Searching through the pages will increase your knowledge. And by that, I mean I would have to search through the pages myself to repost them, so you're on your own. Heh...

But here's the link for the attenuator:
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd...number=266-230

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post #749 of 922 Old 01-16-2006, 12:37 PM
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Ok Jeremy I found your original service menu post, its on page 19. It refers to the CC20/10 combo, but then you update for the CC30R later. I understand what each change is, that one is for color and the RGB is for white balance. Cool.

Here is my new question...

For the non-service menu settings like color, that I would set for DVD (Component). Would I save it as a seperate user setting then the HDMI setting (Cable TV), or would I be able to use the same one for both and the HDMI would just not use the ones it doesn't need to but the Component ones would?


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post #750 of 922 Old 01-16-2006, 02:44 PM
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Thanks Jeremy. I've used your service tweaks, and now the color decoder is pretty much perfect.

Now on to tweaking with the color filter i got from sainthalo.
Does it matter how far the filter is from the lens or does it have to be pretty much attached to it? Im thinking about scotch taping it from the top of the front cover to the front bottom of the projector. This way it the lens is on an angle preventing any reflections that my exhibit back onto the lens.
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