PLV-Z3 Tweak Thread - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 922 Old 11-11-2004, 05:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Please have some respect for this thread. Owners only, and questions that only pertain to tweaking the PLV-Z3.

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post #2 of 922 Old 11-12-2004, 01:15 AM
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Looking through the menu of the Z3 they seem to have moved a lot of the service tweaks on the Z1 to the main menu. We have a subtle but useful VB tweak for the RGB and DARK & LIGHT panels, although I've not had chance to adjust this yet but it looks like it's already pretty close to optimised - there maybe a hint of VB in the mid IRE's.

Oh you also have full RGB gain, offset and gamma shifted from the service menu to the main advanced menu so grey-scale calibration should be less of a ball ache. Anyone used these yet?

2nd, Can anyone help on the Iris settings for calibration - I've been out of projectors for 18months and they have these new light iris control systems.

With the Z3 you have a bright and cinema lamp mode and two further examples of A1,A2 which automatically control light. On top of this you also have a manual iris control.

Now I'm not sure how these relate to each other and which is the best - any suggestions? Also how do they relate to calibration?

I am going to have a mess tonight and report back.

AE2000here.


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post #3 of 922 Old 11-14-2004, 09:53 AM
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I have found on smaller screens it may be beneficial to se the iris at its lowest setting -63 to stop to much light spilling onto the screen.

With bigger screen sizes and throw distances this may not be applicable.

What are people running there settings on - so we can get a feel for the set-ups out there.

Here are mine:
575p
Contrast: 13-14 (clips above this level)
Brightness: 1
Colour: 0
Gamma: 0
Color Temp: Mid
RGB all 0 for the moment
Sharpness: -7
(Bypass progressive)
Lamp mode: Theatre Black
Iris: -63
Gain, Offest and RGB gamma all at default
Auto Black Stretch: off
Contrast Enhancement: off
Transient improvement: off
Overscan: 10

AE2000here.


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post #4 of 922 Old 11-14-2004, 10:54 AM
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Which picture mode are you using i.e. Natural/Video/Creative Cinema?

Cheers
Andy
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post #5 of 922 Old 11-14-2004, 11:00 AM - Thread Starter
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Hiya, where do you find this settings in the menu ?

Auto Black Stretch
Contrast Enhancement
Transient improvement

I dont have them at all maybe becasue iam running hdmi ?

Kind regards
KaNoBi

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post #6 of 922 Old 11-14-2004, 11:29 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by ROne
I have found on smaller screens it may be beneficial to se the iris at its lowest setting -63 to stop to much light spilling onto the screen.

With bigger screen sizes and throw distances this may not be applicable.

What are people running there settings on - so we can get a feel for the set-ups out there.

Here are mine:
575p
Contrast: 13-14 (clips above this level)
Brightness: 1
Colour: 0
Gamma: 0
Color Temp: Mid
RGB all 0 for the moment
Sharpness: -7
(Bypass progressive)
Lamp mode: Theatre Black
Iris: -63
Gain, Offest and RGB gamma all at default
Auto Black Stretch: off
Contrast Enhancement: off
Transient improvement: off
Overscan: 10

Wny don't you use the Contrast enhancement ?
I use Level 3 and it pop the color and contrast right out of the screen.

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post #7 of 922 Old 11-14-2004, 11:22 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by zAndy12
Which picture mode are you using i.e. Natural/Video/Creative Cinema?

Cheers
Andy

The way I saw it was that each one of those was just a stored preset that the manufacturer supplied.

I start with Natural (because most stuff is set to zero) - then calibrate (for which the numbers I have shown above) then I store this as user 1 etc..

The settings they supply are just internal presets with sanyos version of contrast, lamp level.

Frichard - I will definately try the contrast enhancement, I brushed it off a bit too quickly as I though it crushed the shadow detail by remapping intensities to the top of the range - but I could be wrong.

KaNoBi - I'm pretty sure it says in the manual that those settings aren't available under the computer input.

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post #8 of 922 Old 11-16-2004, 09:45 AM
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hey guys, i have my z3 now just a quick question.. i have tried dvi->hdmi from my samsung dvd-hd931 and the picture is nice and sharp... and the same from my htpc too, but i tried to use component from my liteon lvd-2001 yesterday and even set to 720p it waqs really blurred looking.. so i thought i`d try it from the samsung component outs, then from a friend`s denon too... all the same. anyone got a proper sharp picture at 720p using component inputs yet? thanks

whatever you buy is out of date before you finish tweaking it!!!
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post #9 of 922 Old 11-16-2004, 10:33 AM - Thread Starter
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Hi R0ne, yes you was right it was on black on white in the manual. Been to lazy to read the manual.

Kind regards
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post #10 of 922 Old 11-16-2004, 10:40 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by fretlessmusic
hey guys, i have my z3 now just a quick question.. i have tried dvi->hdmi from my samsung dvd-hd931 and the picture is nice and sharp... and the same from my htpc too, but i tried to use component from my liteon lvd-2001 yesterday and even set to 720p it waqs really blurred looking.. so i thought i`d try it from the samsung component outs, then from a friend`s denon too... all the same. anyone got a proper sharp picture at 720p using component inputs yet? thanks

I use component at 720P from my LG DVD player and the picture is razor sharp.
I cut myself on it yesterday

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post #11 of 922 Old 11-16-2004, 10:50 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by fretlessmusic
hey guys, i have my z3 now just a quick question.. i have tried dvi->hdmi from my samsung dvd-hd931 and the picture is nice and sharp... and the same from my htpc too, but i tried to use component from my liteon lvd-2001 yesterday and even set to 720p it waqs really blurred looking.. so i thought i`d try it from the samsung component outs, then from a friend`s denon too... all the same. anyone got a proper sharp picture at 720p using component inputs yet? thanks

There are some chromatic errors on the YUV. Whether they relate to the scaler, DAs or some other noise on the way in - god only knows.

My component is not perfect by any shot.

AE2000here.


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post #12 of 922 Old 11-17-2004, 12:55 PM
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You guy's know why sometime there is some config that are lock

For example I want to change progressive setting but it's grey out and I can't change it !

Thanks

Fred

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post #13 of 922 Old 11-17-2004, 09:31 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Frichard
You guy's know why sometime there is some config that are lock

For example I want to change progressive setting but it's grey out and I can't change it !

Thanks

Fred

Progressive cannot be selected when 480p, 575p, 720p is selected. That must be why.

Take care,
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post #14 of 922 Old 11-29-2004, 02:03 AM
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We need to give this thread a bit of energy so with my SMART III - and theatertek 2.0.4 via VGA and DMI I have calibrated my system and found some interesting stuff out.

Here is an updated cut and past from the AVforums in the UK that I did whilst bringing it up to date. 28th Nov.

I would rate on a scale of 1-10 each source as follows.

Budget DVD player interlace: 3
Some vertical Banding, Staircase jaggies, A little screen door.

Progscan DVD player:8
Tiny amount of VB, Some minor jaggies. No screen Door.

HTPC: VGA 10
Tiny VB, No Jaggies. No screen door. Superb contrast.

HTPC: HDMI 10
No VB, No Jaggies. No screen door. Good contrast, lower than on VGA.

I have found the IRIS function basically cuts down on light hitting the screen which lowers black level. I initally set it at the minium aperture of -63, but found it does nothing between -53 and -63. So I've now opted for -53 as this ist the point light level starts to increase.

I have extensively tested the lamp modes and for me there is only the cinema lamp mode that is any use.

Full Lamp: Too noisy but brighter (and so is the black)

A1: Too noisy

A2: Less noisy but adds a little to the peak white, probably in the region of 50+ contrast ratio. Maybe a little slow to update.

Cinema Lamp: The best black level if you can lower the light and quietist.


Preferred settings pre-calibration

Low1 Colour temp
Cinema Lamp mode
Iris - 53
Basic Avia Calibration for B & White level
All picture gizmos like contrast enhancement off.
VGA mode in from TT 2.0.4

As a basis for calibration I used LOW1 (which is analogous in colour temperature to creative cinema but I don't want the other settings that come with creative cinema.)

VGA calibration:

First time around with SMART I got results of 717:1. Post SMART I got 780:1, colour tracking looked good. Gamma needed to lowered from default of 0 to - 2.

HDMI calibration: HDMI setting L2 (L1 clips level)

Now I've done the same thing with HDMI. Strangely although the picture is smoother with less VB, the contrast ratio is lowered to 496:1 and 600:1 depending on where you clip red.

So that's where I'm at.

The one thing that confuses me - is that there exists RGB as part of the white balance and then RGB gain, RGB offset and RGB gamma as part of the advanced menu. I'm wondering what value the standard RGB offers as part if the adjustments.

AE2000here.


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post #15 of 922 Old 11-29-2004, 07:18 AM
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Excellent idea to have this PLV-Z3 tweak thread for owners. So many smart guys on this forum.

I have the Z3 with an 80" diagonal Carada High Contrast Gray and component connections (until the HDMI problem is resolved).

I hope to be contributing something useful to the thread soon.

Gentlemen, it would be very helpful to all if you include your screen type, sources and connection type in your post.
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post #16 of 922 Old 11-30-2004, 12:36 AM
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I've just made a bit of a break-through I think ... Previously I was only getting around 490-600:1 contrast ration on HDMI. I could not get it higher. The picture seemed dim.

We have been assuming the the HDMI setting on the Z3 should be set to L2 because on initial black level test patterns the slightly brighter bars were crushed on L1 setting.

Well I've spent ages messing about wondering why I can't get the nice bright picture with HDMI that I could with VGA.

Well it's simple - put the Z3 HDMI on setting L1 - blacks will crush because the gamma is not corrected from the video-card overlay. Correct GAMMA on TT-Overlay non DXVA mode to 75. According to my card (RADEON 9600 cat 4.11) it has to be bang on 75.

No amount of display gamma will bring it back, you've got to lift the card's gamma and you will suddenly see the two black bars how they should be. (My display gamma is set to -2).

Then re-do black and white level - hey presto expanded contrast ratio and brighter picture. Also white level on the TT now sits at 0, with the black point at 32.

So I think it's created more headroom higher up the ire scale and remapped the grey-scale across this new range.

That has really, annoyed me ... It seems obvious now.



UPDATE * 30th


The news gets better ... on HDMI (L1) as opposed to (L2)

I got a pre-smart but AVIA calibrated reading of 870:1.

The interesting thing is - I can see now pushing the contrast up there is definately more light available - clipping occurs a lot later than before. In the previous setup of SMART - light was out really early down the contrast range.

I've had to switch back from TT 2.05 to 2.02 - because there were problems with GAMMA sticking.

My latest round of settings pre-smart. (TT2.02 - HDMI L1)

(All numbers in low lamp mode)

Projector:

C: 10
B: -7
GAMMA -3
LOW1
HDMI L1
IRIS -53

TT 2.02 settings

B: 32
C: -1
GAMMA 75 (this is the key)

AE2000here.


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post #17 of 922 Old 12-02-2004, 11:33 AM
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My Z3 is up and running, waiting on a screen to arrive. I'm going to try these tweaks. Wanted a couple of recommendations.

My HDTV arrives over cable (Comcast) and they provide a component connection. When set to 1080i, the screen options are limited to FULL and NATURAL WIDE. This takes away several usable options. Anyone know a way around this?

I am shopping for a new DVD as well. I hope to get one that does 720p. But if I select this option on input, it will again limit my screen options to FULL and NATURAL WIDE. The ZOOM option seems essential for letterboxed DVDs you want to display fullscreen. How are you guys accomplishing this?

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post #18 of 922 Old 12-09-2004, 09:57 AM
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Okay some-more tweaking updates:

I noticed a garish'ness to the RED element of the projector through DVI that I'd not seen before.

We'd beeing working from LOW1 colour balance setting, however through DVI (and lord knows why) it looks different than on VGA.

So a quick look at some greyscale ramps and the upper 90IRE has a nasty red-ness to it, and the greyscale ramp looks too red in general. So i've modified some settings. (My brightness and contrast have changed a little due to swapping TT versions OVERLAY to VMR). Gamma looks to be okay on VMR as well.

Here goes:


HDMI:
TT 2.05 VMR (non DXVA, DXVA seems to have interlace artifacts to me)

Z3: Settings.

C: 19
B: 0
R +4
G -2
B -4

IRIS - 53 (as always)

Gain R: -15 (this takes out that nasty redness)
Gain G: 0
Gain B: -3
Offset R -5 (as does this)
Offest G: 0
Offset B: 0

Gamma R: 0 (might be worth having a tweak with this)
Gamma G: 0
Gamma B: 0

Lamp mode low (each lamp mode adds about 100:1 on with peak IRE levels)

Output on contrast ratio is 880:1

VGA is less at about 750:1 (originaly DVI was lower but because of the HDMI setting it's now higher)

These are my latest round of settings ...

You may find them a bit too cool, but LOW1 is too-red through HDMI but not through VGA...

Projector still locking up on HDMI though even with overscan on 1.

AE2000here.


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post #19 of 922 Old 12-14-2004, 12:53 AM
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I've just recieved my replacement Z3 - the one that shouldn't now lock up on HDMI - so far so good.

The controls are all in completely different places when calibrated and LOW1 is really blue on this new model.

Come on guys - there must be someone else out there with some info ...

AE2000here.


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post #20 of 922 Old 12-14-2004, 11:07 AM
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Speaking of tweaking, does anyone know which filter cine4home recommended in their tuning of the Z3. Their site is in German but using babblefish at altavista.com, you can make out most of the review. It is very detailed but they are convinced that using this filter the colour will be perfect with increased contrast.

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post #21 of 922 Old 12-15-2004, 07:29 AM
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It appears in the latest posting at cine4home.de that they feel that the optimal image level setting for the Z3 is Pure Cinema. They indicate that you can get solid results at the factory defaults in this mode, and that with futher tweaking you can get results equivalent to those achieved with a filter.

I tried this setting last night, and it seemed a bit red. I need to try it again, but I'm wondering if other people have had similar success with the default settings in Pure Cinema. If so, does anyone have any thoughts on settings to RGB gain, offset, and gamma to get the flat results that they achieved?

Thanks.
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post #22 of 922 Old 12-15-2004, 08:04 AM
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The Pure Cinema setting on my Z3 is not nearly as pleasing as the Natural setting with a few upticks on the contrast and gamma settings.

I am using an 80" Carada High Contrast screen so perhaps that combination is what produces a better result for me.
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post #23 of 922 Old 12-15-2004, 08:12 AM
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Interesting ... they said creative cinema mode originally.

The only thing I'm interested in as far as these settings are the RGB values - pure cinema equated to LOW1 mode in the RGB.

Now they are saying pure cinema?

Also do bear in mind, I've had two z3 units and both units' controls have needed different values per calibration.

Hvaing said all this LOW1 is a good place to start.

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post #24 of 922 Old 12-17-2004, 06:43 AM
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I too prefer the results I get afer doing an Avia tweak with Natural and Mid color temperature. I prefer the grays that I get with Mid. Without instrumentation, it's hard to verify exactly what cine4home was advocating.

One note for all the Z3 calibrators out there: make sure that you set your DVD player to put out enhanced black (0 IRE) rather than normal black (7.5 IRE). My Denon 2910 required two settings changes (one for component, one for DVI/HDMI) to achieve this. This is the only way to get projected black as dark as the black bars that the projector produces itself (such as the side bars in Normal screen mode). It also improves overall contrast and allows a higher Brightness setting.
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post #25 of 922 Old 12-18-2004, 01:27 AM
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Tried to get into service mode last night on Z3.

Using MENU+INPUT a "S" appears but nothing happens, can't seem to access lists.

Any takers?

AE2000here.


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post #26 of 922 Old 12-21-2004, 12:16 AM
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Tuning tip:

When setting up your calibration you must start from Creative Cinema, because even though the user stores contain completely user definable numbers, they're not exactly the same.

For instance if you re-create the the creative cinema settings and you say start from "Natural" and use exactly the same RGB numbers as CC - the end result is different to creative cinema.

I just spent ages trying to figure out why there was a nasty posteurization/gamma tracking error that I didn't have before.

Conclusion: Creative cinema pre-set must contain a variable that isn't user definable and is to the benefit of a more accurate picture that you can't get from the other (some of the?) pre-sets start point.

This isn't to say the CC is the best calibration setting, you will still have to calibrate as normal - just start with CC.

This tweak may apply to Pure cinema also, i've yet to test it. But starting from natural or some of the others you will not inherently be able to get good gamma tracking. It goes bonkers around 20IRE and looks terrible.

I have the firmware 1.01 which now does not crash or do anything crazy under HDMI.

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post #27 of 922 Old 12-21-2004, 01:52 PM
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If I remeber correctly, cine4home liked the gamma on Creative Cinema the best. This is probably what you are seeing. I am very happy with the results I get starting from Natural, but I may give it a shot with CC.

What settings did you end up with?
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post #28 of 922 Old 12-21-2004, 03:49 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by BH
If I remeber correctly, cine4home liked the gamma on Creative Cinema the best. This is probably what you are seeing. I am very happy with the results I get starting from Natural, but I may give it a shot with CC.

What settings did you end up with?

I would go along with that ...

However I find it confusing that the gamma on the user panel is in addition to an inbuilt gamma depending on your starting point. So you have lots of variables:

Gamma as per preset starting point, Overall gamma, and RGB gamma.

I will say this: above natural the gamma is screwy for video you can't tune it out. It seems that natual and below the gamma is optimised for video.

At the moment it's a toss up between pure and creative cinema, pure cinema seem to allow a couple more notches either end of the brightness and contrast - but I've yet to measure the contrast ratio to see how real-world it is.

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post #29 of 922 Old 12-21-2004, 08:30 PM
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Has anyone played with the Panel Adjustment feature on the Z3? Just wondering.
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post #30 of 922 Old 12-21-2004, 09:16 PM
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I have played with the panel adjustment feature on the Z3. It's easy to use, and it allows you to minimize VB for light and dark areas on all three panels. My settings are typically at the default of zero or +/-1.
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Reply Digital Projectors - Under $3,000 USD MSRP

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Sanyo Plv Z3000 1080p Home Theater Projector
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