Sanyo Z3 vs Panasonic AE700 in action! - AVS Forum
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Old 11-26-2004, 10:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Hi,

We will do a 4 sessions of Z3 vs AE700 in around 8 hours. Each session is around 1 hour playing DVD (Denon 2910) and HDTV (HTPC) with around 15 people.

http://www.avbuzz.com/new_home/w/200...la1127/099.jpg
Btw, that's my legs in the background! :D

First some numbers as we did the ColorFacts color temp tune-up and contrast measurement today.

DVD player Denon 2910 DVI to Z3/AE700 HDMI 720P. Brand new 100" diag 16x9 Stewart StudioTek (1.3 gain) wall screen. Total light controlled room. Measurement was taken at the center of the screen.

Z3 at Low1 color temp, lamp mode A1, iris full open (0).
Black level: 0.12 lux
Bright level: 132 lux
Contrast ratio: 1100
Lumen: 362
Ft-Lambert: 16

AE700 at Normal mode, high lamp mode, dynamic iris On.
Black level: 0.16
Bright level:187
Contrast ratio: 1169
Lumen: 512
Ft-Lambert: 22.6

These measurements are AFTER ColorFacts D65K color temp tunning.

During the coming viewing sessions I will as the audience to pick their preference. Will post the result then.

regards,

Li On
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Old 11-26-2004, 11:21 AM
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Nice,

Can't wait to see the result.

Has a owner of the Z3, I hope it don't fall to short of the AE700.
I heard that the AE700 was better then the Z3 but had VB.
But I didn't have the chance to view it for myself. Let's see if I made a big mistake:p

Just kidding I like my Z3.

Thanks

Fred

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Old 11-26-2004, 04:54 PM
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I'm in the same boat as Frichard, except I own the AE700. Let's get it on!!
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Old 11-26-2004, 06:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by muadib
I'm in the same boat as Frichard, except I own the AE700. Let's get it on!!
Well your on the good side of the boat. The Panasonic is the favorite for this much up.;)

Any news yet ?!?

Thanks

Fred

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Old 11-26-2004, 08:25 PM
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Hey, Nice leg !!!

:D :D :D

Man see things as they were n say why. I dream of things that never were, n say why not ....... A Perfect PROJECTOR
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Old 11-27-2004, 03:36 AM - Thread Starter
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Well, the shows are over. But the voting result is not really what I expected... so maybe I need a few mins to think a better way to count the votes... :D

regards,

Li On
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Old 11-27-2004, 06:44 AM
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Sounds like this shootout took place in the Ukraine (or Florida).

Cheers,

Grant
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Old 11-27-2004, 06:44 AM
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Let's get in on!!

In my view the buzz has been in favor of the Panny. I've seen this PJ twice. Once with amazing blacks and colors, the other with horrible vertical lines running across the screen during a chase with a grey background. The salesperson contacted Panny who in turn did know how to fix this?

The Z3, I have not seen, so let's get it on!

PF
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Old 11-27-2004, 09:28 AM
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I smelt voting fraud.
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Old 11-27-2004, 10:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Li On
Well, the shows are over. But the voting result is not really what I expected... so maybe I need a few mins to think a better way to count the votes... :D

regards,

Li On
did you pass out? it's been a few minutes!
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Old 11-27-2004, 10:28 AM - Thread Starter
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Well, what the hell since we can always arrange a re-vote! :D

We played 3 DVD clips (PAL Armageddon, NTSC I, Robot, NTSC music video clip) on one projector and switch the DVI cable to the other one and play the same clips again and ask for the audience to pick the overall winner.

Then we played 2 HDTV clips (1 video, 1 film, both 1080i source) on a HTPC 720p DVI-HDMI and switch cable and play the clips again and ask for the vote.

The results for the 4 sessions are:

Z3 draw AE700
12 2 0 (DVD)
3 10 1 (HDTV)

14 1 0
8 4 3

7 2 5
3 5 6

7 2 8
7 2 8

On DVD, 67% prefer Z3, 12% draw and 22% perfer AE700.
On HDTV, 35% prefer Z3, 35% draw and 30% perfer AE700.

Overall, 51% prefer Z3, 23% draw and 26% prefer AE700.

What interesting is the first 2 sessions we shown the Z3 first, then AE700. And the last 2 sessions the AE700 was shown first, then Z3.

Personally, I wouldn't count on the vote result! :D

regards,

Li On

PS: btw, my vote is not counted, as it won't matter anyway!
PPS: during the showing:
http://www.avbuzz.com/bbs/av/uploads...2801275602.jpg
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Old 11-27-2004, 10:41 AM
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I guess beauty is in the eyes of the beholder...
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Old 11-27-2004, 10:44 AM
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Personally, will you prefer the MC900 than the AE700 and Z3.
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Old 11-27-2004, 11:14 AM
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[quote]Originally posted by Li On
[b]Personally, I wouldn't count on the vote result! :D
QUOTE]

Why not?
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Old 11-27-2004, 11:23 AM
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Just proves what I've said all along, I've owned both of these and the Z3 is better in my opinion, it's quieter, has less screen door, better lens shift, excellent colour rendition, good shadow detail, it's a cracking little projector!

Andy.
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Old 11-27-2004, 11:24 AM
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Nobody seems to want to believe that the Z3 can be better than the AE700 and I haven't got a clue why that is... if it's better then what's the problem?

Andy.
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Old 11-27-2004, 12:27 PM
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Li on. Did you see VB and/or SDE on either. Please comment.

PF
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Old 11-27-2004, 12:29 PM
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Why was the 700 in normal mode ? I havent heard of anyone recommending this mode before or after callibration. Pesonally I think normal is terrible on the Panny.

Ben (Sydney, Australia)

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Old 11-27-2004, 12:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Ben, you're very wrong about the Panny "Normal" mode. I have many ColorFacts calibration graphs to prove the "Normal" mode is fine and a good default to start with.

Just "think" or "heard" is not good enough for me!

Btw, the same "Normal" mode may give VERY different result depends on the Input (S-video/component/VGA/DVI/HDMI) and input signal. Here I'm talking about DVI/HDMI 1280x720 input only.

regards,

Li On
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Old 11-27-2004, 01:24 PM
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so Li On, i'm assuming your personal review was not the same as the majority of viewers present at your faceoff? if so do you have a rationale for this...is it just personal preference or some other factors?
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Old 11-27-2004, 02:26 PM
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I also run a HTPC and use HDMI. Callibrated with DVE which isnt ideal i know but better than nothing. Normal was not my preferred choice. Cine4home much preferred filtered video mode for optimal contrast. Even Natural mode callibrated was preferable to normal mode. I am just curious why you chose it as a baseline to work from.

Since head to heads such as this thrive on contrast where perception comes into play im not sure the Panny was at its best. Did you take any screen shots ? I would like to see if their are obvious contrast differences between the Panny and the Sanyo.

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Old 11-27-2004, 02:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by broadwayblue
so Li On, i'm assuming your personal review was not the same as the majority of viewers
That's never happened before. ;) :D

Li On's opinions of his AE100 vs many higher end projectors have made many of us wonder for a long time whether his preferences were just much different than other people's or if there was something else (since he is far enough from most of us that we couldn't see his AE100, but only other people's). This isn't meant to knock anybody, but just pointing out that it seems there have been highly varying preferences involved here for a while.

Li On,

Would we be right if we assumed that you thought the AE700 kicked butt? Or that the Z3 did? I think your posts here would make just about anybody think that you thought one projector won handily.

--Darin

This is the AV Science Forum. Please don't be gullible and please do remember the saying, "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."
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Old 11-27-2004, 04:40 PM
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Li On

Did you notice lamp flickering on the AE700 on low lamp mode?

Not waiting for a perfect projector anymore!
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Old 11-27-2004, 04:53 PM
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Dynamic is good on the AE700 after colour filter and tuning.

I would like the Z3, but I'm suspicious of short bulb life from Sanyo PJ's. There are lots of very happy Z1 and Z2 owners out there, so maybe the stats for short lived bulbs isn't that high.
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Old 11-27-2004, 06:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by cpc
Dynamic is good on the AE700 after colour filter and tuning.

I would like the Z3, but I'm suspicious of short bulb life from Sanyo PJ's. There are lots of very happy Z1 and Z2 owners out there, so maybe the stats for short lived bulbs isn't that high.
I just replaced my first Z2 bulb (actually a SE2HD). It was seriously dimmed and the hour count was at 1300. Not as good as I would have hoped....but not the worst.
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Old 11-27-2004, 06:49 PM
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Hmmmm, hours and hours and still no word on this comparison. It's just killing me... not.
I really don't understand all this mode chatter with filters and such.

I've tuned the bright green down, but other than that everything's is darn good on a 94" diag. screen.
I usually work off of normal too which doesn't seem the popular choice with some folks.

Okay, let's get a verdict already.

It's all just a game. I just play to win.
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Old 11-27-2004, 07:32 PM
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My opinion, since I viewed these two projectors this morning in my town.

Sources : Pioneer 8xx (don't remeber the number of the DVD Player), and a portable PC with a VGA output.
Modes : Sanyo Z3 : natural, Panasonic 700 : natural.

Scanlines visible on the Sanyo, not on the Pana
VB visible on the Pana, not on the Sanyo.
VB (on the Z3) and flicker (on the 700) had been hastily adjusted.

Dark details : OK on the pana, too dark on the Sanyo
Colors : the Pana seemed a bit orange to my eyes, but it's just my feeling.


Conclusion : the goal was to replace my Z2 which has too much VB and too bad colors and gamma. But it's not worth. I consider rather buying a Yamaha 510, that is better in colors, contrast and light output.

Pio2001
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Old 11-27-2004, 07:34 PM
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Li On-

Has anyone tried to 1:1 pixel map via the analog RGB DB15 input on the Z3 from a HTPC?

If so, how easy is it to get perfect pixel lock?

The AE700 only requires pressing the Auto function, plus maybe some horizontal image shift. No clock or pixel phase tweaking is required on the AE700. I am wondering if the Z3 needs pixel clock and/or phase adjustments to do pixel-locked 1:1 at 1280x720 60Hz (i.e. no moire or other artifacts with one pixel test patterns).

Also, is there an option to disable all overscan cropping on both the HDMI and RGB analog inputs when sending 1280x720 60Hz? Will the Z3 display all 1280x720 pixels for 1280x720 signal inputs, including component 720p inputs?

The Z3 is shaping up to be a real contender against the AE700.

If the Z3 really has no VB, then coupled with its three year warranty and HS51 type circular automated iris, it could be a real thorn in Panasonic's side.

One AVS sponsor vendor is listing the AE700 and Z3 at the same price. Considering the extra two year warranty is worth at least $200 USD, the Z3 has a lot going for it.

Given the performance and service I got from Sanyo on the PLV60 I sold off several week ago, Sanyo is still a top contender for me.
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Old 11-27-2004, 07:41 PM
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As a potential consumer. I find this thread in valuable. Thank you.

We are considering which projector to purchase for our rec room the Z3 or the AE700 (even the 500u) paired with the LG LST-3150a for OTA HDTV and DVD, X-box and Multimedia PC with the AIW Radeon 9600. most @16:9

Ceiling mount at both 12 foot throw, and 25 foot throw to DIY Screen on each end wall. (Custom ceiling mount to accommodate 12, 25 will post design plans when I build it).

The past 3 days have been a real education and this forum one of the best educators possible.

Lets see which one wins.

:-)
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Old 11-27-2004, 07:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by cpc


I would like the Z3, but I'm suspicious of short bulb life from Sanyo PJ's. There are lots of very happy Z1 and Z2 owners out there, so maybe the stats for short lived bulbs isn't that high.
What is the expected life on the Z3 bulb?

The AE700 is quoted at 5000 hrs (!)
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