UNofficial Sony VPL-HS50/1 tweak thread - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 535 Old 12-21-2004, 06:10 AM - Thread Starter
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Please have some respect and place your general questions in the Official Sony HS50(51) thread and respect those that either own this projector, will soon own this projector (have it on order) or are actually trying to help those seriously tweaking the Sony VPL-HS50/1 projector. Thank you!

When will D* stop pushing HD-Lite while charging us for full HD? Digital input on a CRT is a reality, not a possibility.
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post #2 of 535 Old 12-22-2004, 04:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Heh, so much for the tweak thread.

When will D* stop pushing HD-Lite while charging us for full HD? Digital input on a CRT is a reality, not a possibility.
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post #3 of 535 Old 12-22-2004, 04:58 AM
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If I had mine to tweak, I would be posting, but I don't. I choose to believe that those that have received their projectors are either tweaking away and we will hear from them soon (as Brian has admitted) or they are so engrossed in watching movies, they haven't gotten into the tweaking mode yet.

At this point I've read enough to confirm my buying decision. The tweaks will be icing on the cake. Now, let's turn our collective energies to finding a way to shame Sony into filling more orders so we can all tweak!!

Happy Holidays to all!

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post #4 of 535 Old 12-22-2004, 05:08 AM - Thread Starter
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Could this be that some are finding the out of the box experience to be enough?

When will D* stop pushing HD-Lite while charging us for full HD? Digital input on a CRT is a reality, not a possibility.
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post #5 of 535 Old 12-22-2004, 05:16 AM
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That's my optimistic view.

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Sherbourn PT-7030, PA 7-350, PA 7-150, PA 4Z-75, C-12, Oppo BDP-103D
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post #6 of 535 Old 12-22-2004, 05:51 AM
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It could be that the out-of-the-box experience is enough for some but..
I am planning to apply SMART III tool over the next week, for starters.
One thing though is that i do not know if calibrating with smart iii should applied with iris off,on or auto OR if this has nothing to do with d65 calibration. You see i have the generic version for smart iii so i can calibrate and measure contrast before and after (possible will do measure contrast in all 3 iris settings).

Any ideas/suggestions will help a lot.

Cheers,

Nick
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post #7 of 535 Old 12-22-2004, 06:31 AM
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I have smart 3 as well and plan to use it when I am off the week after Christmas.

Kevin
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post #8 of 535 Old 12-22-2004, 09:05 AM
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One tweak is to use this projector with iris auto and bulb low with a high gain screen. I am using a Da-lite High Power screen with it and dimmness is not an issue anymore whatsoever. Although, a high gain screen has its pluses and minuses, overall, I like it beter than the HCMW (1.0 gain screen) with this PJ, because of the obivous advantages of gain.

One other device I would like to use with this is the IMX lens which eliminates pixel structure on the screen but I do not have a source where I can try it out before buying it.
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post #9 of 535 Old 12-22-2004, 09:06 AM
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Ferret,

Tell the moderator to make this official and keep it at the top of the forum always.
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post #10 of 535 Old 12-22-2004, 09:53 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by TheFerret
Could this be that some are finding the out of the box experience to be enough?

My in the box experience is actually becoming quite enjoyable. I received mine on Monday and haven't moved it from the spot at my front door. I haven't even tweaked the position. In fact since I have no tables in my living room at the moment or any usable anywhere else, I've been setting my beer on it in the evenings. Thus far it has been a battle of wills.
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post #11 of 535 Old 12-22-2004, 10:11 AM
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I would post except I don't know what to do with it. I have not even read the manual, just changing things to taste. Avia so far has been useless. You loose control over many items going vga input, so any tweaking is through desktop controls.

I am somewhere around brightness of 50-55 and contrast of 55-60 if memory serves me correctly with lamp in low mode, iris on auto and temperature on medium. Low is too "warm" for me, at least with many movies.

Something I need to get a grasp of is the RCP (real color processing). The adjustments are confusing (especially since I have not read the manual). When you move the range for instance there is no number scale to tell you where you started. Just this pie chart looking thing with various color slivers that you slide back and forth. Not real clear to me what to do but moving red for instance left makes them more crimson and to the right makes them more orange.

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post #12 of 535 Old 12-22-2004, 10:12 AM
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Yeah, this is nice
Owner of An HS50 ( pal sweden version ) and picture quality blows me away, so silent, so sweet, so great -i love it!
Picture download is a nice one, still it's a pity it lacks of size.
(Another photo with 1600x1200 pixel is amazing to watch but does not fit this site)
LL

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post #13 of 535 Old 12-22-2004, 10:19 AM
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One thing i am currently trying to determine is what short of signal is better, and i explain. I am using a sony 999es dvdp connected through components, outputing progressive signal in both ntsc and pal disks.
What i have found so far is that progressive from 999es gives me a more soft and brighter image (but to soft for me!).
When i change to interlace then the pq is sharper but less bright!
Since i am using a high contrast grey screen of 2,5 meters width (approx. 110" diagonal) with a gain of 1, i can use all the brightness i can have since i prefer the low lamp mode (is very quite vs high lamp mode which annoys me in quite parts of the movie).
So far havent made up my mind !!

Regards

Nick

PS I also prefer the mid color temp.
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post #14 of 535 Old 12-22-2004, 10:36 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by nb2121
It could be that the out-of-the-box experience is enough for some but..
I am planning to apply SMART III tool over the next week, for starters.
One thing though is that i do not know if calibrating with smart iii should applied with iris off,on or auto OR if this has nothing to do with d65 calibration. You see i have the generic version for smart iii so i can calibrate and measure contrast before and after (possible will do measure contrast in all 3 iris settings).

Any ideas/suggestions will help a lot.

Cheers,

Nick

Well hopefully I will be joining the tweakers soon as supposedly my powerbuy dealer has gotten six in and I am fourth on the list so just waiting to hear from them.

Does anyone know if changing the gamma affects the grayscale? If it doesn't then it seems we could calibrate the grayscale with the iris in either the on or off position (or auto for that matter).

I also have smart III so will be using that. Any news on the supposedly cheaper version of colorfacts coming for ces?

Jaime

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post #15 of 535 Old 12-22-2004, 12:22 PM
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Gamma settings are as follows:
Off, Gamma 1, Gamma 2, Gamma 3.

Initially is Gamma = off.
I have found that this setting gives the most contrasty picture whereas settings from 1 to 3 give better shadow detail in exchange of the more contrasty perseption. Dark films can be better viewed in setting 1 or 2 wictch provide better details in the dark (but you lose the unique deep blacks that the off setting seems to offer - or at list the perception of them).

Well, i toggle between off and 1 so far.
Another experiment i am currently taking is to have gamma to either 1 or 2 and engage the Black Level setting to On. This gives me a better shadow detail and nice (perceived ??) blacks (or better a little crushed blacks) that compensate the the less aggressive gamma curve.

Well, experimantation continues !!

Regards

Nick
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post #16 of 535 Old 12-22-2004, 03:28 PM
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Just came back from watching Star Wars VI.
Well, one thing is for sure. If you need a very film like picture which will be more soft than sharp then use progressive signal from your dvdp (at least this applies to my 999es). If you feed the pj with interlaced signal then the picture is more sharp and "lcd like" but with no SD at all (at least from my viewing distance = 1,8 X screen width).
Looks like electronics/scaler of the HS50 are giving different pq than those of the 999es. Go feagure !

Nick
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post #17 of 535 Old 12-22-2004, 03:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Nick, I am not sure I paid close enough attention during the i/P testing via the Panasonic Rp-56. We had switched back/forth to see if the deinterlacing internal to the Sony was better/worse than the Faroudja DCDi. I wonder if its really the deinterlacing, or just how the signal is handled in scaling.

For instance, maybe the Sony has a single processor that deinterlaces & scales, while it may use a dedicated scaler for progressive signals.

When will D* stop pushing HD-Lite while charging us for full HD? Digital input on a CRT is a reality, not a possibility.
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post #18 of 535 Old 12-22-2004, 04:52 PM
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I cannot get my HT-PC which uses a Nvidia Gforce 5200 card and VGA connection to fill the screen using my HS-51. I have set the resolution to 1288 by 788. I was wondering if anyone has used the image director software that comes with the projector? Does the software allow you to stretch the picture to fill the screen?
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post #19 of 535 Old 12-22-2004, 06:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Why 1288x788? The native panel resolution is 1280x720. I think the only thing the software does is to adjust the gamma.

When will D* stop pushing HD-Lite while charging us for full HD? Digital input on a CRT is a reality, not a possibility.
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post #20 of 535 Old 12-22-2004, 06:35 PM
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Do this, go into the driver properties via the icon in the tray and select 1280X720 and 60hz. The HS51 will do its APA thing and you should get a very nice picture.

Or... I used powerstrip "1280X720-LCD" and this appears to give me pixel perfect.

There is a note in the manual by the way that states pretty clearly that if you do not use one of the standard resolutions you will get exactly what you described.

Brian

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post #21 of 535 Old 12-23-2004, 01:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by TheFerret
Nick, I am not sure I paid close enough attention during the i/P testing via the Panasonic Rp-56. We had switched back/forth to see if the deinterlacing internal to the Sony was better/worse than the Faroudja DCDi. I wonder if its really the deinterlacing, or just how the signal is handled in scaling.

For instance, maybe the Sony has a single processor that deinterlaces & scales, while it may use a dedicated scaler for progressive signals.

Might be the latter, since it ''seems'' that the hs50/51 "handles its panels" better in terms of scaling/deinterlacing (it reminds me that i have read somewhere that Infocus advise to use interlaced signals with the 777 for better results whatsoever).

So HS50/51 vs Sony DVP 999ES goes in favor of the HS50/51 (at least for my eyes).

Nick
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post #22 of 535 Old 12-23-2004, 04:33 AM
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I can't wait to get my HS50 but I amuse myself by reading the posts on this forum

Has anyone played arround with the resolution inputs namely this one.
With a HTPC and powerstrip would it enable playback of NTSC and PAL encoded discs full screen and enable just one set of calibration to hold true.?

Your thoughts please.

Tazpc
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post #23 of 535 Old 12-23-2004, 07:10 AM
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Quote:
Has anyone played arround with the resolution inputs namely this one. With a HTPC and powerstrip would it enable playback of NTSC and PAL encoded discs full screen and enable just one set of calibration to hold true.?

Your thoughts please.

Me no comprende?

Brian

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post #24 of 535 Old 12-23-2004, 07:16 AM - Thread Starter
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I think he just wants to use an HTPC & RGB for a single input and then use the software DVD player with a single setting for multiple regions. I presume PAL uses its own color space, too, right?

When will D* stop pushing HD-Lite while charging us for full HD? Digital input on a CRT is a reality, not a possibility.
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post #25 of 535 Old 12-23-2004, 08:43 AM
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Thanks for the info. It looks like I will need to get Powerstrip. 1280x720 was not one of the selectable resolutions for my video card. There was something like 1920 x 1080 but the shape didn't look right either.

Lonnie
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post #26 of 535 Old 12-23-2004, 10:17 AM - Thread Starter
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Lonnie, didn't look right from the projector or the computer monitor?

When will D* stop pushing HD-Lite while charging us for full HD? Digital input on a CRT is a reality, not a possibility.
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post #27 of 535 Old 12-23-2004, 05:28 PM
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If you want to investigate the Service and Factory menus, here is how to access them. The usual warnings apply. Write down all default settings before you change them and be careful, especially in the Factory menu.
  • Under the user menu (click MENU key on remote), check that Setup/Status is turned ON. If not, turn it ON.
  • Exit the user menu by clicking the MENU key.
  • To enter the Service Menu, on the remote quickly click ENTER, ENTER, UP, DOWN, ENTER. When prompted to enter SERVICE MODE click UP for Yes. To return to User mode click the same sequence then when prompted to return to USER MODE click UP for Yes.
  • To enter the Factory Menu, on the remote quickly click ENTER, ENTER, LEFT, ENTER. When prompted to enter the FACTORY MODE click UP for Yes. To return to User mode click the same sequence then when prompted to return to USER MODE click UP for Yes.
Once in these modes click MENU on the remote and you will see new items at the bottom.

Service Mode adds a W/B menu (I'm guessing White Balance?) which allows tweaking the 6 color temperture options (High, Med, Low, Custom 1,2,3). It also lists additional details under the Information menu. Other than that, I could not see much difference from User Mode. But if all you want to do is adjust the gray scale this should get you there.

Factor Mode adds a menu at the bottom which provides access to a variety of cryptic settings probably best left alone unless you know what you are doing.

John S
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post #28 of 535 Old 12-23-2004, 05:45 PM
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This was also posted in the huge Official forum, but it is probably worth repeating here where people seeking tips and tweaks can find it. It applies mainly to using Input A (Computer) on the HS51, but you can use it with HDMI as well to see if you are getting all the pixels. The patterns can be used with any HTPC or display.

The attached zip file contains a 1280x720 pixel bitmap file that you can set as your Windows desktop background. It is a 1x1 pixel B&W checkerboard which includes corner markers at 1, 5, and 10 pixels. Set this as your windows background/wallpaper and you can insure that you are getting the full 1280x720 pixels displayed.

If you see any interference patterns using Input A, use Menu, Signal, Adjust Signal, Vsize and Dot Phase to reduce or eliminate them. If you can't see the 1 pixel corner markers, use Signal, Adjust Signal, Shift to move the image around. Once you have it adjusted you must turn off "Smart APA" under the Function menu, otherwise the next time you turn on the PJ it will change the settings. You can always click the APA button on the remote if you want the PJ to adjust the settings, but it never provided the perfect settings for me (although it will get close).

To set this as your background, right click on the Desktop, select Properties. Open the Desktop tab and click Browse. Find the file and select it.

Using this method I was able to get 1 to 1 pixel mapping on a few different 1280x720@60Hz settings from the HTPC, so it may not be necessary to get Powerstrip if your graphics card already supports this resolution and frequency. However, page 57 of the manual lists the officially supported "preset signal #56" settings for 1280x720 if you are using Powerstrip.

The zip also contains some GIF patterns that you can load into an image viewer. 1 pixel vertical lines, a 2 pixel grid pattern and 2 pixel diagonal lines. If you can view all of these with no interference patterns you have the optimum settings. You must make sure you are viewing these GIF images at 100% or FULL size. They are 1386x788 pixels in size, so if you don't have scroll bars on a 1280x720 display they are being scaled down. The Windows Picture and Fax Viewer that opens in XP if your right click a GIF and select Preview has an "Actual Size" button at the bottom that will work.

 

pixel mapping test patterns.zip 20.521484375k . file

John S
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post #29 of 535 Old 12-24-2004, 01:29 AM
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[quote]Originally posted by jschefdog
[...........

Service Mode adds a W/B menu (I'm guessing White Balance?) which allows tweaking the 6 color temperture options (High, Med, Low, Custom 1,2,3). It also lists additional details under the Information menu. Other than that, I could not see much difference from User Mode. But if all you want to do is adjust the gray scale this should get you there."

Correct!
It is for white balance nut it is actualy 3 settings. The custom 1,2,3 are identical to high,mid, low and are there for having a starting point to tweak.

Regards,

Nick

PS. If i have the time i will proceed to apply smart 3 this weekend. Stay tuned!
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post #30 of 535 Old 12-24-2004, 01:45 AM
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Thats exactly what I want to do, I have a mix of PAL and NTSC encoded disks and would just like one setting to run them on.

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