*OFFICIAL* Benq PE7700 Thread - Page 13 - AVS Forum
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post #361 of 5110 Old 04-27-2005, 07:35 AM
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Darktrooper - FYI

I had both the 7700 amd the mt700 for a whole weekend to compare side by side. I have a dedicated HT with Denon 3805 & 2910.
To keep it short - not a darn diffrence at all.
So I saved a lot of money and ordered the Tosh.
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post #362 of 5110 Old 04-27-2005, 07:39 AM
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So 645cntx, you did not notice any difference with BenQ's Sense Eye? Is it a gimmick? I am still on the fence as my builders have begun today working in my basement. I know I can get a BenQ for just a little more than the Tosh so price (between them) does not matter at this point.

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post #363 of 5110 Old 04-27-2005, 08:11 AM
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is the Toshiba cheaper in america then? I just had a look at how much it was in comparison to the benq here in the UK.. and it was about £600 more expensive..

i really need to have a look at the Benq in person, fortunately im going up to London in a couple of weeks so i plan on trying to get a look to see if i notice rainbow effects, and to compare it to the Panny AE700, if for some reason the 7700 isnt available, ill probably try the Toshiba out even if it is more expensive..

Are there any kinds of scenes where rainbow effects stand out more than others? I don't want to go looking for them, but if im going to see them i'd like to know before i try a purchase.

Thanks
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post #364 of 5110 Old 04-27-2005, 11:05 AM
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TheDarktrooper -- Yes, the MT700 is about 16% cheaper than the PE7700 in the US. I expected that BenQ would be cheaper outside the US.

From my look at an Infocus 7205 (same DMD), the problem isn't RBE, it's motion blur. Look at any DVD that has fast panning scenes (I'm planning on using the Pod Race scenes in Star Wars, Episode I).

645cntx -- That's good information, thanks. What inputs did you use, that could make a difference? I'm interested in S-Video, Component, and HDMI, as I am using all 3.

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post #365 of 5110 Old 04-27-2005, 01:20 PM
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Darktrooper :
if you really wanna see RBE put on subtitles, if they are very bright white you can't miss Ã*t
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post #366 of 5110 Old 04-27-2005, 06:12 PM
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Please help. I'm using htpc upscaling DVD signal to 720P. I'm using powerstrip to change resolution. What are the timing/refresh rates for this projector? The projector keeps saying that the signal is unsupported.

Thanks
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post #367 of 5110 Old 04-27-2005, 06:18 PM
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What refresh rate are you using? and Resolution?

You cannot dispute the evidence of an intelligent creator! Take a glass, some milk, some chocolate syrup and set them all on your counter. Now call me when it becomes chocolate milk all by itself.... Also, I want to be there when you drink it :-)
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post #368 of 5110 Old 04-27-2005, 06:23 PM
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I would bet your refesh rate is off...

Try Res of 1280X720
and
Refresh rate of 47.952

You cannot dispute the evidence of an intelligent creator! Take a glass, some milk, some chocolate syrup and set them all on your counter. Now call me when it becomes chocolate milk all by itself.... Also, I want to be there when you drink it :-)
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post #369 of 5110 Old 04-27-2005, 06:29 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by FlyingGimp
Kjelt - this is likely Benq covering their rears. They don't want to cater to the freaks like us that use HTPCs. For me on the light-engine-by-BenQ Toshiba MT700, only 1280x720@59.94Hz would sync over HDMI. 1280x720@60Hz, 1024x768@60Hz, 800x600@60Hz, etc. all would not sync over HDMI. My guess is that the 7700's FW will be similar to the MT700's and will also be limited in what it syncs to.

I think this is what you need!

You cannot dispute the evidence of an intelligent creator! Take a glass, some milk, some chocolate syrup and set them all on your counter. Now call me when it becomes chocolate milk all by itself.... Also, I want to be there when you drink it :-)
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post #370 of 5110 Old 04-27-2005, 07:35 PM
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I'm not using HDMI, I'm using VGA to component. Would the refresh rate be any different for that?

Thanks
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post #371 of 5110 Old 04-27-2005, 07:46 PM
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You need to output the VGA (15pin dSub) from your card to the 5pin RGBHV unless your card is transcoding the VGA (RGB) signal to component video.

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post #372 of 5110 Old 04-27-2005, 08:09 PM
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I'm using a VGA to component break out cable. Will this work?
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post #373 of 5110 Old 04-27-2005, 08:22 PM
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Bsims2719 -- Jim Noyd is right, you need to connect your PC to the RGBHV input (DVI to RGBHV is better than VGA to RGBHV - I think - I'm a HDPC novice). This works and also allows you to sync at 48 Hz as well as 60 Hz. See the MT700 thread for details. Member Senor_Curtains has posted his 48 Hz settings (Powerstrip). Here is his post:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...52#post5543652

NOTE: If you're not using a recent ATI or Nvidia Video card (with the latest software updates), you may not be able to send the correct 1280 x 720 signal to the PE7700. You may have to go to the HTPC forum to get more information (if you haven't already).

PS -- 60 Hz is actually 59.94 Hz and 48 Hz is actually 47.951 Hz.

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post #374 of 5110 Old 04-27-2005, 08:26 PM
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Hey CT, a quick question for you. If you could get either the BenQ or the Tosh at nearly the same price which would you go with?

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post #375 of 5110 Old 04-27-2005, 08:37 PM
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You're in the US - the MT700 (it's 16% cheaper, right now). In Canada and Europe, the BenQ is cheaper. At least that's the direction I'm leaning. I hope to see a MT700 in action in the next week or so, and I'll have a better idea then. If DLP motion artifacts gets to me, I'll have to rethink my choices . I was hoping to hear that BenQ's Sense-Eye would help, but that has not been said yet (the MT700 is more than my budget will really allow, and there has to be a significant difference to sway me to spend even more money).

One of the posts that I've read, in the last 2 days, stated that he saw both in action and could not tell the difference (not side by side).

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post #376 of 5110 Old 04-27-2005, 08:43 PM
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That is funny how the BenQ is cheaper in other markets. It should be the same atleast. I can get them for nearly the same but still I am not sure which one yet. If one could, would an Optoma H77 be better or nearly the same? I really want a HDMI input and the Optoma's have DVI. I did have someone trying to sell me an infocus 7210 today. He was telling me it was the best for Home Theater on the market now...I don't know how he came to that conclusion though...He hasn't even compared it to the newer DLPs...

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post #377 of 5110 Old 04-27-2005, 08:46 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by 645cntx
Darktrooper - FYI

I had both the 7700 amd the mt700 for a whole weekend to compare side by side. I have a dedicated HT with Denon 3805 & 2910.
To keep it short - not a darn diffrence at all.
So I saved a lot of money and ordered the Tosh.

did u notice any noise difference ? Benq is advertising 26db eco mode, Tosh is 29db.

another thing always puzzles me: pj central says Mt700 weighs 7 lbs, Pe7700 is 12 lbs; is this true ? (I only saw the Benq in person. It does look heavy) what does Benq do with this additional 5 lbs ?
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post #378 of 5110 Old 04-27-2005, 08:54 PM
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joerod -- Both of those are good PJs. I think (but don't know) that the 7210 is an upgrade of the 7205. But unless tha price is very close to the PE7700 / MT700 brothers (fraternal twins?) they're a much better buy, IMHO. The 7205 that I saw was very good, but I'm hoping the MT700 / PE7700 has less bothersome (to me) motion blur.

c722 -- The BenQ does seem to be quieter, but both are acceptable levels (about the same as my current L300). The manual says 10 lbs, PJC is wrong. I'm willing to bet that they're both the same weight. The only difference is a few integrated circuits - not enough to account for any significant weight difference, unless the Tosh has a much cheaper power supply (that would be bad news).

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post #379 of 5110 Old 04-27-2005, 09:02 PM
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Toshiba weighs 12lbs as well, there is an error in that quote I am sure.
There is a reasonable amount of motion blur in panning, I will have to go compare it to the 7205 at my local shop.

I still feel the Toshiba will be the winner between the two for value, but I do like Benq's warranty and history of service...soooo who knows?

But The Mt700 has exceeded my expectations so far.

I am currently making every possible effort to get the service menu access for either to see what tweaks may be available?


TJ
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post #380 of 5110 Old 04-27-2005, 09:03 PM
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CT_Wiebe -

I just wanted to add a note that I've found the motion blur on my MT700 seems to be affected by the source. I don't notice too often on HD, or on a Panny RP-82 doing 480p. But, with a Sony 315 480i player on the same material (Firefly DVD), it bugged the hell out of me. This was watching the same two episodes btw. Nothing scientific here, but I think the quality of the source can affect the level of motion blur artifacts.

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post #381 of 5110 Old 04-27-2005, 09:09 PM
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Thanks Jon. That was what I observed with the 7205 that I saw. I'm really hoping I get the same reaction, 'cause I want one!

PS -- I'm using the RP-91.

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post #382 of 5110 Old 04-27-2005, 09:17 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by joerod
I really want a HDMI input and the Optoma's have DVI.

Why is this a problem? An adapter is like $15...

-Tim

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post #383 of 5110 Old 04-27-2005, 09:21 PM
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Every unit I have has HDMI on it. I would like to have HDMI all around. My SP1000 tells me whether it is DVI or HDMI and true RGB cannot be sent thru DVI and for once I would like to see true RGB and better black levels by going all HDMI...Plus the more adaptors and switchers you implement the more the pic Q suffers.

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post #384 of 5110 Old 04-27-2005, 09:30 PM
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They're both digital signals, and just happen to have different pinouts. HDMI simply carries audio as well as video. There's no difference other than perhaps HDCP compliance, but that has more to do with the source.

I'm not quite sure how you're going to see "true RGB" and "better black levels" (compared with DVI) when HDMI sends this:

..11101000011100011110101010111011..

and DVI would send this:

..11101000011100011110101010111011..

They'll be exactly the same... adapters and switchers will only degrade the PQ if they're low quality, or analog, or a result of attenuation. (Note I'm only referring to the digital side of DVI, of course).

...I should qualify these statements... if the DVI signal is getting there in one piece (all or nothing with digital), you shouldn't have a problem... if attenuation is lost through the adapter connection, you're right in that it will lose PQ. But a straight 3' cable won't be any better than one with an adapter is my point.

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post #385 of 5110 Old 04-27-2005, 09:42 PM
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The Denon 3910, 5910 and Onkyo SP1000 (I've had them all) all say in their manuals that they cannot do true RGB thru DVI. It is more of a computer connection that shouldn't have been used for home theater in the first place. That is why HDMI (with audio as well) is the logical replacement. Many dvd players rather they are high end or low end have a hard time of passing btb when going HDMI to DVI. Having all HDMI would be one less thing to worry about. Plus while passing true RGB will lead to a better picture. My HDMI connections (atleast on my higher end units) does better pic Q than dvi. My JVC HM5 U has HDMI and it has a RGB option that can be selected but only if it is going into another HDMI connection is it activated. And let's face it, the component connections RGB (in 720p) look excellent enough, and these "digital" connections were only implemented for regulation, not picture quality...

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post #386 of 5110 Old 04-27-2005, 09:53 PM
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Yup, but you have to add that the HDMI input on the PJ may not correctly sync with the PC, whereas the RGBHV will. Also, the PJ has much fewer adjustment options on HDMI (they're assuming that the HDMI signal has all of the correct setup instructions as part of the complete digital signal). PC Video cards (as of today) are not HDMI and may not be able to add in the correct digital words to give you the right setup info.

Until we get HDMI video cards in our PCs, we will be stuck with this problem. I don't think this can be fixed with the "right" software (although some smart software engineer might be able to figure it out).

Check the MT700 thread.

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post #387 of 5110 Old 04-27-2005, 09:59 PM
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yes CT, that is why I really like the Onkyo SP1000. It has a special HDMI menu that lets you adjust dither, keystone, gamma, sharp, brightness, colors, and a few other options related to PJs. And yes, computers hand shaking (or lack there of) with HDMI is another problem. Which does make sense since DVI is really a computer term to begin with.

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post #388 of 5110 Old 04-27-2005, 10:11 PM
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Another "toy" . I just looked up the SP1000. It's interesting that it uses the same scaler used in the PE7700 and MT700.

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post #389 of 5110 Old 04-27-2005, 10:12 PM
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Back on topic, I do know now that whatever PJ I end up with (front runners Tosh and BenQ) it will have a HDMI input. At this point in the game, HDMI has emerged as the "home theater" digital input and I see no reason to invest in any computer-type connections anymore.

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post #390 of 5110 Old 04-27-2005, 10:16 PM
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Yes CT, the Flex"O"plus scaling system. It is very impressive(the pic Q). I could go on about how nice of a dvd player this is (especially teamed up with its BIG brother TX NR1000 receiver) but then that would be going way off topic. With either PJ I should get killer pic Q using these units. I just want to make sure I squeeze out every last drop.

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