*OFFICIAL* Benq PE7700 Thread - Page 25 - AVS Forum
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post #721 of 5110 Old 06-06-2005, 03:45 PM
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Yes I went to Ace and looked at the M6 screws; they didn't have shorter ones.

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post #722 of 5110 Old 06-06-2005, 04:32 PM
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Has anybody made the move from an AE700 to this one? I always had my heart set on a 1280x720 DLP but when I was ready to buy there wasnt one out in my price range but used ae700's are going for quite a bit still and it wouldnt cost me that much to upgrade so wondering if its really worth it to go from an ae700 to the PE7700.
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post #723 of 5110 Old 06-06-2005, 04:33 PM
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Ahh, the way I made my mount was to take the M6 threaded rod (basically a long M6 screw with no screw top, just thread,) and put those into the projector and put M6 nuts on to hold it to my mount. I don't tighten the mount to the projector, I adjust the picture using those nuts.
Thus, mine are loose too, but the weight of the projector holds it still.
Perhaps, like me, you really don't need to worry about them being tight.
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post #724 of 5110 Old 06-06-2005, 07:17 PM
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I just got my PE7700 on Saturday and set it up quick before I had to leave for two weeks... so I'm posting while away from home. All I can say is I loved the picture! I have it sitting on my coffee table right now projecting from something like 7' and severely angled upward with keystone correction on. Obviously the two sides look jagged w/keystone, but the image itself is amazing. This is probably because I'm upgrading from an X1. Regardless, I love the picture, and can't wait to ceiling mount it at the proper height and image size... I may just need to build a decent screen now... Just wanted to share my delight!

-Tim

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post #725 of 5110 Old 06-06-2005, 07:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeSRC View Post

It sounds like it's losing sync and the 525p pops up when it reestablishs it. You should definitely simplify your cable connection with direct component connections before going further. However, with some DVD players, you may never see the drop shadow, but you should see the 7th box in the row.

OK. I now have a straight through component cable and I guess my DVD player, a Panasonic RP62, does not show the drop shadow. The 7th box is there so I guess I'm fine.

Incidentally, I've just tried a DVI/HDMI connection from an HTPC outputting 720p. I'm using zp and ffdshow. The picture looks noticeably improved. The image is sharper and details stands out more. The HTPC setup shows the drop shadow.

Thanks again
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post #726 of 5110 Old 06-06-2005, 07:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miltimj View Post

I just got my PE7700 on Saturday and set it up quick before I had to leave for two weeks... so I'm posting while away from home. All I can say is I loved the picture! I have it sitting on my coffee table right now projecting from something like 7' and severely angled upward with keystone correction on. Obviously the two sides look jagged w/keystone, but the image itself is amazing. This is probably because I'm upgrading from an X1. Regardless, I love the picture, and can't wait to ceiling mount it at the proper height and image size... I may just need to build a decent screen now... Just wanted to share my delight!

Congratulations. My setup and impressions mirror yours. I upgraded from an X1 as well. To me the difference is significant and worth the extra cost. I can watch DVD or HD right out of the box and not feel the need to tweak.
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post #727 of 5110 Old 06-06-2005, 07:40 PM
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BTW, I didn't mean to sound "too" dumb - I knew what needed to be done (get shorter screws), just didn't know if someone, either BenQ or the mount supplier, was "supposed" to give me a set. I got some from Lowe's. Thanks!

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post #728 of 5110 Old 06-08-2005, 07:33 AM
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I was looking on the BenQ web page for information on the PE-7700 and came across this graphic.

What are they referencing to when they say the PE-7700 has adjustable gamma curve?

Are they saying that there are preset gamma curves to select, or there is a user adjustable gamma curve like the Toshiba MT-700?

What do you think?



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post #729 of 5110 Old 06-08-2005, 07:58 AM
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I just received my PE7700 and spent some time calibrating it to D65 (not too much time because I was anxious to watch some movies on it). As a former owner of the PE8700, I would echo what others have said about the PE7700's impressive performance in light of its price.

As I get time, I will run a grayscale measurement on the various color temps (warm, normal, cool) and post the charts. I will also post my settings for a D65 grayscale and adjustments to the color decoder settings when the lamp has a few more hours on it (obviously, your mileage may vary).

One thing I would note is that sharpness should remain at 0 rather than the more common practice of adjusting sharpness to its lowest setting. Using the Accupel sharpness pattern at 720p, edge enhancement was obvious at +1 and the projector lost 1x1 pixel mapping with sharpness at -1. With sharpness at 0, there was 1x1 pixel mapping and no artifacts.

With its exceptional brightness (I'm using a 118-inch 16:9 screen), the PE7700 is a prime candidate for achieving better PQ using a color correction filter. I attached the Hoya filter from my PE8700 and was rewarded with better blacks, increased contrast ratio, and more accurate color. I need to recalibrate with the color correction filter, but I feel this relatively inexpensive tweak (a filter is $50-$70) has some real potential.

I'm trying to get a hold of the service manual, and will post more information as I have time to experiment with this great projector.

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post #730 of 5110 Old 06-08-2005, 08:28 AM
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Quote:
With its exceptional brightness (I'm using a 118-inch 16:9 screen), the PE7700 is a prime candidate for achieving better PQ using a color correction filter. I attached the Hoya filter from my PE8700 and was rewarded with better blacks, increased contrast ratio, and more accurate color. I need to recalibrate with the color correction filter, but I feel this relatively inexpensive tweak (a filter is $50-$70) has some real potential.

Kevin,

Which color correction filter are you using, 81A? Once you re-cal using the filter, all of the color presets on the BenQ will no longer be useable unless you remove the filter, correct?

If I wanted to use the filter and calibrate for D65, then I could use another user memory to save a higher color temp cal for my HDTV if I wanted, right?

How much of a lumen drop do you think you take a hit on when you use the filter?

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post #731 of 5110 Old 06-08-2005, 10:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DIY Guy View Post

Kevin R. Anderson
How much of a lumen drop do you think you take a hit on when you use the filter?

I seem to remember measuring around 11% drop on my DLP when I added an fl-day, so the 81a might be in a similar area. Hoya HMC filters will drop les light than non coated lenses I would think.

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post #732 of 5110 Old 06-08-2005, 10:07 AM
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Thanks Kevin keep us informed on the filter # you used and the settings you end up with. I have not done any calibration on my pj's temporary setup, waiting to get into the HT in about 4 weeks when all the painting a molding is done.
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post #733 of 5110 Old 06-08-2005, 10:09 AM
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Gary Lightfoot post:
Quote:
I seem to remember measuring around 11% drop on my DLP when I added an fl-day, so the 81a might be in a similar area. Hoya HMC filters will drop les light than non coated lenses I would think

.

Gary,

That's not bad. I calibrated my NEC LT150 with an 81A and by the time I had everything tweaked, in my opinion, the output was too dim to watch.

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post #734 of 5110 Old 06-08-2005, 10:19 AM
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What did you use to rebalance the RGBs? Colorfacts or SMART?

Gary.

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Who says Cameron is "right" and why do we care about him so much - lol!

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post #735 of 5110 Old 06-08-2005, 10:36 AM
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Gary,

I used Colorfacts and also had the tool to modify the gamma tables. With the filter in place, it was much easier to calibrate the temp flat from 20 IRE - 100 IRE. Unfortunately, there was close to a 50% drop in Lumens.

So I settled for a higher color temp with good linearity to retain more lumens.

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post #736 of 5110 Old 06-08-2005, 11:20 AM
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Wow, that's quite a drop.

It sounds like the 81a isn't the best choice of filter - you need something that will color correct the pj with the green and blue as high as possible, so you can keep some brightness by not cutting them too much.

What kind of colour balance do you get if you ramp up the RGB contrasts? On my DLP I had green 5% higher than red, and blue was around 20% higher. Using an fl-day combined with an 81a was a good combination, but that dropped around 22% of the lumens, so was too much for the little extra contrast it gained. I ended with just the fl-day, but when the pj was upgraded and came back brighter, I put the two filters on and recalibrated, and that's how I have it now.

I think red cuts green, and yellow cuts blue, so you might be better off choosing a color correction filter that will cut the color that is the greatest, that way you are keeping the most lumens you can by adjusting the colours that are producing less. Green has most 'energy' which is why it seems to be the colour most people correct for, but I wonder how many lumens that is giving in comparison to blue.

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post #737 of 5110 Old 06-08-2005, 11:34 AM
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I eventually removed the Hoya fl-day filter from my BenQ 8700 because it became too dim. However, even with the PE7700 lamp set to "economic" mode and the CC filter in place, the PE7700 is still more than bright enough for my tastes. I will be interested to see how much the picture dims over time, but right now, it is plenty bright for me. I have not yet had time to measure the drop in footlamberts, but will let you know when I do.

It should be noted that an ISF calibration almost always results in a reduction in out-of-the-box brightness so as to avoid crushing whites and to achieve a linear grayscale at high luminance levels because at such levels, DLPs tend to run out of red turning the grayscale temp towards blue.

The SMPTE standard for movie theaters 12-22 footlamberts off the screen with 16 being the nominal number, which is not as bright as one might think.

It is correct that the grayscale settings with the filter will be different than without, and the filter calibration should be stored as User1 or User2 color temp. However, I don't know why you would want to take the filter off to watch HDTV -- if the filter helps PQ on a DVD, it will equally help PQ with HDTV.

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post #738 of 5110 Old 06-08-2005, 12:41 PM
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Kevin,

So what is the final ON/OFF contrast of PE 7700 after some tweaking?

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post #739 of 5110 Old 06-08-2005, 12:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DIY Guy View Post

Are they saying that there are preset gamma curves to select, or there is a user adjustable gamma curve like the Toshiba MT-700?

What do you think?

This was mentioned awhile ago and there no one's found a way to do that with the 7700 to my knowledge.

I'm not sure if the 7700's set up the same way out of the box as the MT700, but with the MT700, the "warm" temp setting is at 61-62K, with the "middle" and "cool" at 75-80K.

Enjoy!

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post #740 of 5110 Old 06-08-2005, 02:00 PM
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Gary,

I've enjoyed the LT-150 as a tweaked HT projector, but the projector was designed to be a tiny portable business projector, and to be bright enough they dialed it in close to 9000K. So, by the time you drop the temp and balance the drives on this unit, it's putting out much less light. I've had this projector for 4 years now and I'm ready to try the BenQ or Toshiba.

Kevin,

Thanks for your updates on your adjustments, I'll continue to follow your posts.

Mike,

That's what I thought, the Benq doesn't have a user adjustable gamma curve (without possible service access), so it threw me off when I saw the gamma curve graphic. I'm still not sure what BenQ is stating.

Either way, you can't go wrong with these projectors.

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post #741 of 5110 Old 06-08-2005, 03:44 PM
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DIY Guy,

I see your point. I used to have a Davis DLS8 but never tried calibrating that other than basic black and white levels. I didn't get Colorfacts until I had an HT1000 but would love to have a go at seeing ehat kind of figures I could get from modding and tweaking it now.

Kevin,

Isn't the aim 12ft lamberts with film in the projector gate, and 16 being the figure attained without film? And isn't 12 also the recommended figure for Digital Theater? I always aim for 12, and find that dimmer isn't too bad if you have reasonable contrast. I recently tried to eak some more contrast from an HT1000 by using two filters together, and achieved 2200:1 CR @D65 with a flat greyscale and almost perfect CIE. The image was very filmlike and watchable, yet surprisingly was only producing 4ft lamberts.

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Who says Cameron is "right" and why do we care about him so much - lol!

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post #742 of 5110 Old 06-08-2005, 04:33 PM
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Gary:

My understanding is the same as yours about the SMPTE standards for theaters -- 16 ft lamberts without film and 12 with. I also agree that contrast ratio is a more meaningful measurement of PQ so long as you can achieve total control over all ambient light in your theater room.

On a perfectly dark and clear night, your eye can discern a candle light from 30 miles -- that gives you some idea of your eye's sensitivity in a controlled environment.

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post #743 of 5110 Old 06-08-2005, 04:47 PM
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Couple of questions for those of you with 7700's.

I'm seriously looking at one of these, ideally I'd like to pair it with an anamorphic lense. In my setup a horizontal compression lense would work best with this PJ, effectively extending the throw, and adding an offset.

Now given that, I'd want to run it through the lense all the time. Fine and dandy with my HTPC, I can correct for the squish, but not for the Xbox. What I need to do is squish a (due to lense) 2.35:1 image back to 16x9. That's a 25% shrink, same as 16x9->4x3. From looking at the manual, I see it's got a 4x3 mode that displays 4x3 pillarboxed, which should be perfect to correct 16x9 on a 2.35 screen.

Can the AR modes be accessed with all sources? Specifically can the 4x3 mode be engaged with a 480p or 720p source?

And is it just me or are the illustrations for the AR modes confusing?

Thanks, and appologies if I missed this earlier in the thread.

See what an anamorphoscopic lens can do,
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post #744 of 5110 Old 06-08-2005, 04:56 PM
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Hi Kevin,

You make a good point about ambient light - this was shown by Krasmuzic with the relevant maths and contrast numbers in a non light contriolled room (thread in the >$3500 forum) - a projector capable of around 2000:1 CR was only able to produce around 80:1 in a room with ambient light.

As you say, total light control is very important as even a 9" LC CRT will will fare no better with any light in the room and negate any black level advantages it may have.

Interesting info regarding our eyes, I didn't realise they were that sensative!

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post #745 of 5110 Old 06-08-2005, 05:04 PM
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Here is a link to that interesting bit of trivia about eye sensitivity (scroll to the very bottom)

http://electro-optical.com/whitepapers/candela.htm

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post #746 of 5110 Old 06-10-2005, 04:44 PM
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I'm moving into a house that has a 3rd bedroom that I think will work great as a home theatre. The dimensions are 15'8" x 9'5", only one window (where I will put the center of the screen). I figure I can board it up and put the center channel behind the screen. Anyway, what size diagonal do you think I can get away with, allowing for 2 rows of 3 seats each and comfort, and being far enough away from the screen to enjoy, and not right on the back wall so I can enjoy my rear speakers as well (7.1 system). Finally, what screen do you think would be good. Do I need one that is acoustically transparent for the center channel, or can I just increase the volume on the speaker specifically (via my Denon's room calibration) to make up for it. Any harming the screen at all? Thanks!

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post #747 of 5110 Old 06-10-2005, 04:45 PM
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Oh yeah...the reason I ask is I eally want to get this projector!

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post #748 of 5110 Old 06-10-2005, 04:53 PM
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I hope to do something like that Fool. I think 15 foot is only two rows of seating comfortably. Myself, I would get a screen as wide as the distance to your first row. Right now mine is 10 feet wide and I sit at 10 feet. Looks awesome. On certain bright spots you can see screen door if you look for it. My second row is at 14 feet and you never see screen door there.
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post #749 of 5110 Old 06-10-2005, 05:08 PM
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Is the bulb of 8700 same as 7700?
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post #750 of 5110 Old 06-10-2005, 10:08 PM
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FoolintheRain -- Not a good idea. If you can't mount the center channel under or over the screen, then you need an acoustically transparent screen.

You will loose the center mid and high frequencies (and defeat the purspose of the center channel in the first place) if you put it behind the screen (boosing it's output won't help).

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