What would you like to see (realistically) in the next round of LCD?? - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 104 Old 06-11-2005, 02:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Souki
In addition : to the guy who mentioned "motion blur", that only affects flat panel LCD's with more than 8 ms response time.
I'm that guy. I don't know what your LCD pj looks like, but mine has motion blur in fast action scenes like battle scenes and some sports. How does slow LCD response time in a flat panel differ from slow LCD response time in a pj? :confused:

I have the Panny 500 by the way.
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post #92 of 104 Old 06-11-2005, 07:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jacksonian
I'm that guy. I don't know what your LCD pj looks like, but mine has motion blur in fast action scenes like battle scenes and some sports. How does slow LCD response time in a flat panel differ from slow LCD response time in a pj? :confused:

I have the Panny 500 by the way.
Are the fast action scenes film or video/video game source?
Are the sports source interlace or progressive?

ted
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post #93 of 104 Old 06-11-2005, 07:57 PM
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Movies like Gladiator's opening battle scene and sports like soccer on INHD. DVD player is progressive.
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post #94 of 104 Old 06-11-2005, 09:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jacksonian
I'm that guy. I don't know what your LCD pj looks like, but mine has motion blur in fast action scenes like battle scenes and some sports. How does slow LCD response time in a flat panel differ from slow LCD response time in a pj? :confused:

I have the Panny 500 by the way.
I believe D4 is at 16 msec and D5 will be at 12 msec. I'm hoping D5 takes care of the motion blur I see watching sports (most sports). Motion blur is definitely a problem with current LCD FP's.

Don
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post #95 of 104 Old 06-11-2005, 11:35 PM
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Well, I have owned the Hitachi PJ-TX10 0.55" P-Si TFT LCD w/MLA 480p projector for about a year and I don't see any motion blur. I watch mostly DVD's via component through a Sony progressive scan DVD player. Are you sure it's not the scaling?
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post #96 of 104 Old 06-12-2005, 05:48 AM
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If the LCD response time is 16msec on these pjs, why would you think that they have any less motion blur than the LCD flat panel displays with the same pixel response time?
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post #97 of 104 Old 06-12-2005, 07:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jacksonian
Movies like Gladiator's opening battle scene and sports like soccer on INHD. DVD player is progressive.
Note Gladiator openning battle scene is supposed to look choppy or strobe-light like, it was filmed at a faster frame rate, without motion blur. The same applies to the openning scene in King Arthur. Motion blur would smooth out those effects.

Ghosting may be a more appropriate term for slow refresh rate with fast motion. It should not happen with panels under 20 ms.
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post #98 of 104 Old 06-12-2005, 08:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jacksonian
If the LCD response time is 16msec on these pjs, why would you think that they have any less motion blur than the LCD flat panel displays with the same pixel response time?
Because we're talking about the difference between 0.55"-0.7" Poly-Si LCD panels compared to 17"-19" Active Matrix TFT flat panels. Not to mention the differences in product design.

I can only go with my own eyes, and I don't see any motion blur or ghosting. I've seen this in TV LCD flat panel displays 20" and up, so I know what it looks like.
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post #99 of 104 Old 06-12-2005, 02:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jacksonian
If the LCD response time is 16msec on these pjs, why would you think that they have any less motion blur than the LCD flat panel displays with the same pixel response time?
If the response time is 16 ms there should not be any ghosting at 60p. At 60p each frame needs to be updated in 16.67 ms.
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post #100 of 104 Old 06-12-2005, 02:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonHoyaFan
Note Gladiator openning battle scene is supposed to look choppy or strobe-light like, it was filmed at a faster frame rate, without motion blur. The same applies to the openning scene in King Arthur. Motion blur would smooth out those effects.

Ghosting may be a more appropriate term for slow refresh rate with fast motion. It should not happen with panels under 20 ms.
HoustonHoyaFan,

Thanks for the response. I was scratching my head and blank, because I've only seen Gladiator on a 27" TV.

jacksonian,

I don't know from INHD, but if you are watching 1080i for sports - is it possible you are seeing interlace temporal artifacts?

As to the next round of LCD's - Epson & Sony Non-organic is what I would prefer, so I guess 2007.

ted
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post #101 of 104 Old 06-13-2005, 07:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonHoyaFan
If the response time is 16 ms there should not be any ghosting at 60p. At 60p each frame needs to be updated in 16.67 ms.
Do you think Mr. Nyquist has something to say about this? It seems that an update of 8.33 msec might be needed to take care of it. The video sample is continually smeared (filtered) over the whole 16 msec period. Sure you settle before the next sample, but it is only settled for 0.67 seconds before the next sample.

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post #102 of 104 Old 06-13-2005, 07:56 AM - Thread Starter
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please note the title of this thread... if you want to talk about lcd response times in detail, please feel free to start a thread about it....

krlock.

p.s. lens cap comments still appreciated.

That's some bad hat, Harry.
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post #103 of 104 Old 06-13-2005, 12:39 PM
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What? LCD response time improvement IS what we would realistically like to see in the next round of LCD pjs.

Everyone keeps ignoring your "lens cap comments appreciated" because no one seems to care about that except you. I'm still not sure if you're joking or not. I've had a ceiling mounted LCD pj for 2 years now and I've never even thought about "an automatically closing lens cap." But I think about LCD response time every time I watch it.
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post #104 of 104 Old 06-13-2005, 12:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Souki
Because we're talking about the difference between 0.55"-0.7" Poly-Si LCD panels compared to 17"-19" Active Matrix TFT flat panels. Not to mention the differences in product design.
I admit I'm technically ignorant here, so I can't really debate the point. It's possible I could be seeing some other artifact.
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