New Dell 5100MP - 1400x1050 DLP 2500:1 CR and 3300 Lumens only $3499! - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 105 Old 08-23-2005, 09:13 AM - Thread Starter
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I'm suprised this hasn't been all over this forum already!
New Dell Projector

What color wheel do you think it uses? It would be a shame if it's only 2X. It also uses the newest DDR controller chip, has the 12 degree mirrors, and seperate HDMI and component inputs. Looks like it could be sleeper for the budget crowd who want a nice high res image without paying >$10K!

-Matt
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post #2 of 105 Old 08-23-2005, 09:20 AM
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2x color wheel. But like the X3, some may find use for it in a ht setting.

Victor

http://www.projectorcentral.com/Dell-5100MP.htm

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post #3 of 105 Old 08-23-2005, 09:23 AM
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It may not be popular here because it is a business class projector. The native resolution is 1400 x 1050 which is a 4x3 aspect ratio. Most home theatres PJ are 16x9 ratios. If you show a widescreen on a 4x3 PJ, you will be wasting pixels.

Business class PJs are usually not optimized for HT. The lumens and contrast specs will be very different once calibrated for HT.

Also, a 2X colour wheel will mostly cause RBE during movies (lots of motion). This is not as important for business presentations (very little motion).
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post #4 of 105 Old 08-23-2005, 09:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperGoop
It may not be popular here because it is a business class projector.
Wow... tough crowd! I guess the days are long gone where this group would be drooling at the mouth to find ways to adopt this for HT! :D

All these 480p $1000 HT projectors must have spoiled us. Remember this is SXGA+ we are talking about!
-Matt
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post #5 of 105 Old 08-23-2005, 09:27 AM - Thread Starter
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post #6 of 105 Old 08-23-2005, 09:30 AM
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The 2x wheel hurts, and we need more details about real world specs :)

Someday maybe I'll actually WATCH my projector...
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post #7 of 105 Old 08-23-2005, 09:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madpoet
The 2x wheel hurts, and we need more details about real world specs :)
I guess we need Darin, Mr. Wigggles and Rogo to setup an LLC, OEM this sucker from Dell (kind of ironic), slap in an 8 segment, 5x color wheel and an adjustable iris. Raise the price to $5,500 but with specs like 2000:1 CR @ 3300 lumens or 7500:1 CR @ 750 lumens! :D
-Matt
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post #8 of 105 Old 08-23-2005, 10:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperGoop
It may not be popular here because it is a business class projector. The native resolution is 1400 x 1050 which is a 4x3 aspect ratio. Most home theatres PJ are 16x9 ratios. If you show a widescreen on a 4x3 PJ, you will be wasting pixels.

Business class PJs are usually not optimized for HT. The lumens and contrast specs will be very different once calibrated for HT.

Also, a 2X colour wheel will mostly cause RBE during movies (lots of motion). This is not as important for business presentations (very little motion).

Hmm, that's why my 2x color wheel X1 was so very very unpopular here.

Given Dell's history of (sometimes unintentional) discounting I am extremely excited about this - what the Manufacturer actually sells it for is likely to be far different from this announced price. It is also a higher resolution DMD then even the >$3,500 guys have access to - coupled with a nice scaler or a HTPC and this thing could really make a nice setup - 3300 lumens gives you plenty of room for calibration and still maintain a bright picture.

A DMD like this rolling out now (Dell has never shown a willingness to wait on industry release schedules) makes me even more excited for CEDIA and the 1280x768 DMDs - if this can come out at 3499 with that light engine a 4810/x4 level pj at 1999 is not only possible by likely.
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post #9 of 105 Old 08-23-2005, 11:58 AM
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Sorry, but the X1 was a different phenomon. All of our choices at that point were 2x wheels :). Now there's a choice. I agree the resolution kicks butt (even if it's 4:3) but that's not all we're concerned with.

Someday maybe I'll actually WATCH my projector...
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post #10 of 105 Old 08-23-2005, 12:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madpoet
Sorry, but the X1 was a different phenomon. All of our choices at that point were 2x wheels :). Now there's a choice. I agree the resolution kicks butt (even if it's 4:3) but that's not all we're concerned with.
huh, I thought there were a good number of 4x wheels in the fall of '03 when the x1 was hot, but you would know better then I.

That being said - I have never had a problem with my 2x wheel - I've NEVER seen a rainbow, nor have any of my guests for movies, football, or sopranos finales - and me a noir movie fan. I have to take it on faith that they even exist. That being said - how much better is the color from the 6 segment 5x wheels? Wouldn't artifacts be more likely with the faster wheels? I'm not saying I wouldn't take one if they priced it the same, but what is the greatest liability of a 2x wheel for someone to whom rainbows are just a ghost story?
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post #11 of 105 Old 08-23-2005, 12:54 PM
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While they existed, they were in MUCH higher priced machines. In the Fall of '03 the X1 was at ridiculously low prices (I know, I bought and sold about a half dozen of them!). There was nothing even close with a 3x or 4x colorwheel.

Someday maybe I'll actually WATCH my projector...
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post #12 of 105 Old 08-23-2005, 01:00 PM
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Color is more acurrate and contrast more than doubles. Compare the 2x Infocus x1 with the 4x Optoma H30. 600-700:1 with x1 while h30 was getting 1500:1.

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post #13 of 105 Old 08-23-2005, 01:09 PM - Thread Starter
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While yes the CR may go up, there was a lot more going on between the X1 and H30 than just a wheel upgrade. They also went from 10 degree to 12 degree mirrors which probably added to CR more.

Mostly a RGBRGB wheel will give you less rainbows, better color saturation and a CR (when HT calibrated) closer to specifications. For instance, even tho this PJ specs out at 2500:1, I would be suprised it was over 1500:1 after calibrating it for HT.
-Matt
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post #14 of 105 Old 08-24-2005, 09:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperGoop
It may not be popular here because it is a business class projector.
Yeah that projector is "business class"

The Mothership is now boarding.
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post #15 of 105 Old 08-25-2005, 09:39 AM
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anamorphic lens anyone?
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post #16 of 105 Old 08-25-2005, 11:54 AM
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For what, this? Wouldn't help with RBE.

Someday maybe I'll actually WATCH my projector...
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post #17 of 105 Old 08-25-2005, 01:29 PM
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I'll be interested to see if someone decides to purchase this and post a review. I was considering getting the Canon SX50 (same resolution, but LCD in lieu of DVD). 4x3 doesn't bother me since I'd be putting my unused Panamorph in front of it.

I'm semi-susceptible to seeing rainbows, so the Dell might not be for me.

roy
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post #18 of 105 Old 08-25-2005, 01:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madpoet
For what, this? Wouldn't help with RBE.

What is this "rainbow effect" you keep going on about - I think it's your imagination.

















See - I'm sure you don't like that - now why don't you stop assuming that a 2x colorwheel doesn't work for the rest of us who don't share your disability. There may be other reasons to not like a 2x wheel, but to dismiss a product out of had that has it is just irritating and immature. My crappy 2x x1 still has a better combination of color and brightness then any lcd i've looked at, and I've yet to see a rainbow. Neither have my guests.
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post #19 of 105 Old 08-25-2005, 01:39 PM
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The resolution is tempting (certainly sounds like fun with a Panamorph), and encouraging to see at this price point, but it seems outclassed in other aspects by HT projectors like the 4805. Business all the way.

Quote:
For what, this? Wouldn't help with RBE.
True. I saw them on a X1/4800, but never a trace with the 4x 4805.

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post #20 of 105 Old 08-25-2005, 01:59 PM
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Why in the world are these companies still using 2x wheels? How much money does this save them? Sharp has been using 3x wheels in their business projectors for years and they don't charge more. It seems like they don't want the average consumer to know anything about wheel speeds.
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post #21 of 105 Old 08-28-2005, 10:31 PM
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mpjohnst, in your pictures above, the back view is from the 3400MP projector (all others are correct). Here's the correct back view of the 5100MP:

http://img.dell.com/images/global/pr...p_back_314.jpg
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post #22 of 105 Old 08-28-2005, 10:45 PM - Thread Starter
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They must have linked to the wrong back picture as that is what they showed on dell's site. Thanks for the correction... I fixed the link above.

Interesting... there looks to be (2) component inputs, (1) VGA and (1) HDMI. What is the wide black plug between the VGA and the composite inputs? It almost looks like a DVI plug but it's hard to tell... That would be a pretty complete set of inputs!
-Matt
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post #23 of 105 Old 08-28-2005, 11:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mpjohnst
What is the wide black plug between the VGA and the composite inputs?
I just answered my own question... on Dell's site it says it's an M1-DA plug which means that it can handle either a second VGA plug or DVI. And considering it already has an HDMI plug (which has to be HDCP compatible no?) and has paid it's HDCP license, that the DVI plug would also be HDCP compatible. That is pretty impressive for a <$3500 unit (wait until coupons come out!).

TOO BAD THEY PUT A 2X WHEEL IN IT! :mad:
-Matt
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post #24 of 105 Old 08-29-2005, 10:55 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsm88
What is this "rainbow effect" you keep going on about - I think it's your imagination.See - I'm sure you don't like that - now why don't you stop assuming that a 2x colorwheel doesn't work for the rest of us who don't share your disability. There may be other reasons to not like a 2x wheel, but to dismiss a product out of had that has it is just irritating and immature. My crappy 2x x1 still has a better combination of color and brightness then any lcd i've looked at, and I've yet to see a rainbow. Neither have my guests.
Obviously he is addressing the people who are bothered by rainbows. If you are not bothered by them then why even respond? If it's not an issue for you than why do you even care?
I can't even watch an X1 because of rainbows. The ability to see rainbows is hardly a "disability" It has been scientifically proven that people who see them are smarter, more aware and better looking. Really it's true. :)
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post #25 of 105 Old 08-29-2005, 11:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperGoop
The native resolution is 1400 x 1050 which is a 4x3 aspect ratio. Most home theatres PJ are 16x9 ratios. If you show a widescreen on a 4x3 PJ, you will be wasting pixels.
And?

Let's see here, many naitive 720x1280 projectors are around the $3000 mark. Thisprojector, for only $500 more, will give you a 787x1400 16x9 image. And you got full resolution for anything 4x3. So for a 16x9 image, you're getting 180,200 extra pixels to look at, allowing a little bit of a larger screen without pixelation. Sounds pretty good to me unless some DC3 projectors with 3000+ contrast ratios can beat the price.

RBE? I can see it if I look for it on my 1X projector. Doesn't bother me, nor has anybody who has watched a movie on my projector seen it.
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post #26 of 105 Old 08-29-2005, 12:03 PM
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no, obviously he wasn't. He was dismissing the projector outright saying that an anamorphic lens was academic since this pj only has a 2x wheel. For the vast majority of people who don't suffer from rainbowitis this pj is a groundbreaking step forward in dlp resolution at <$3500 price, if somewhat lacking in other features.

From the dictionary "Disability: A condition that curtails to some degree a person's ability to carry on his normal pursuits."

The inability to watch a projector that the majority of people enjoy and have no problem with is the very definition of a disability for a HT enthusiast - You have my condolences. :rolleyes:
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post #27 of 105 Old 08-29-2005, 02:57 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsm88

From the dictionary "Disability: A condition that curtails to some degree a person's ability to carry on his normal pursuits."

The inability to watch a projector that the majority of people enjoy and have no problem with is the very definition of a disability for a HT enthusiast - You have my condolences. :rolleyes:
Under that silly definition someone with something stuck up their A S S suffers from a disability. ;)
On the other hand it does not in anyway, by any definition apply to people who can see the effects of a physical action ( the spinning of a colored wheel). It's your application of word "condition" that is wrong. On the other hand, the inability to see what is really actually there in front of your eyes might qualify as a condition or at least a deficiency. ;)
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post #28 of 105 Old 08-29-2005, 03:19 PM
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I was implying, altogether too subtly it seems, that if you can see rainbows you lack the brainpower to process and ignore extraneous information and simply perceive the projected image. :rolleyes:
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post #29 of 105 Old 08-29-2005, 03:38 PM - Thread Starter
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And I think he was implying your puny little mind can't comprehend those color seperation artifacts which are right there on the screen! ;)

Seriously, some people see rainbows, some people FPN, some people see screendoor and some people don't see any of it. I'm really sensitive to rainbows as well as CRT flicker. Just because only a small portion of people are more adept at processing what their eyes see doens't make them flawed. So are you saying that professional athletes are disabled because they are of the few percent which can do more with their muscles than the other 99.999% out there?

If only you could see what I've seen with your eyes... I've seen things you people wouldn't believe! :D
-Matt
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post #30 of 105 Old 08-29-2005, 05:09 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsm88
I was implying, altogether too subtly it seems, that if you can see rainbows you lack the brainpower to process and ignore extraneous information and simply perceive the projected image.
Oh, ok sure you were! ;) as if the "projected image" is somehow seperate from the "extraneous information" ie, rainbows. Keep trying!
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