Mitsubishi HC3000 MSRP $2,995 - Page 25 - AVS Forum
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post #721 of 3491 Old 11-19-2005, 01:21 PM
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Well I been asked to not share yet the demo unit settings because we are still adjusting, but here's a start.

Best solution spend $300 for an ISF calibration.

OR:

Start with Cinema Mode and 5900K as per the cine4home.de review

Turn BrilliantColor On

Set the black level using THX optimizer or (DVE or some other test disk) Ballpark the contrast the same way.

The attached chart may help you keep track of the settings.

Find a good test scene with bright colors and black with shadows.

Set the color levels. On the german review (see attached chart) they saw too little red. So if you are using a white screen try their settings or try some other comparably spaced settings.

Use the User 1 and User 2 and User 3 settings to be the same except for one variable. For example is you are adjusting a color value, set one at level 0, one at level 4 one at level eight. Say you like one of the extreme value( example 8) , set it at 4 then 8 then 12. If you like something between 8 and 12 set the values to 8 10 12 and then zero in.

When you like it, publish your findings here so we can compare.

 

HC3000 adjust chart111905.zip 3.4013671875k . file
LL

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post #722 of 3491 Old 11-19-2005, 03:19 PM
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Looks like Evan preferrs the Z4. It makes me wonder. Maybe I'll buy both and send back the one I don't like. I sure dont want to make a mistake with this purchase.

This is my first real HT PJ. Placement is not an issue. I wonder If I can create the same offset with the Z4.. I would preferr a large offset with my 9 1/2 foot ceiling. I haven't decided if I want to shoot-out the PJs yet. I'll sleep on it.
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post #723 of 3491 Old 11-19-2005, 03:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Li On View Post

Well, guess I better pop the bad news sooner than later! I think I need to take back the BUY IT comment!

Yesterday tried a few DC wide adaptors but couldn't find any good match. I think the offset projection make the additional lens hard to get good focus and unformity.

Also tried playing with R/G/B adjust but still couldn't get the Red to look correct after 30mins of flipping.

Since the three older Mits projectors (D1208, HC2000, HC900) all have good color, I thought this one can be tune up too. Or maybe just the one I tried has problem?

Anyway, guess I will pass, again. Just look out for the color rendition when you buy the projector.

regards,

Li On

Anyone knows of any hired killers up in Hong Kong that accept payment via credit card or Paypal . There is one HC3000 coming my way based on your original recommendation!...

Joking aside I hope your comment has more to do with the frustration of not being able to get a lens for your room size than the red color being way off. I am not nearly as picky as you and I hope the color rendition doesn't turns out to be a big dissapointment.
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post #724 of 3491 Old 11-19-2005, 04:41 PM
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Evan clearly states that if you like to sit close, like deeper blacks and more contrast, and all the good things you like about DLP the HC3000 is great. But it's optimized for ceiling mounting.

If you want it a bit cheaper with more setup options and you don't mind the softer picture and lack of tweaking capability try the AE900. It's optimized for bookshelf mounting and easy setup

If you like to sit way back and don't see visible pixels at your viewing distance try the Sanyo.

I'm afraid the sanyo and the panny just don't give me the image I want. And I find much more quality issues discussed and found on the LCD's.

I wanted that $7500-10,000 MSRP DLP image and the HC3000 is the first thing ever to give me that image in a price I was willing to pay. It's very good OTB for most people and is easy to tweak.

BTW, There is a lot of flexibility to gain red, keep on trying you guys before you give up,,,,,,

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post #725 of 3491 Old 11-19-2005, 06:52 PM
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rcrymes,
do it and let us know which you like.

I've seen the z3 and panny 700 and from user opinions on this forum, there isn't much improvement with the new models. I just can't see either beating the 3000 in a side by side based on picture quality comparisons. Installation flexibility, sure, but not picture quality.
I think Evan's preferences are pretty apparent in his reviews.

I copied cine4home's settings a week or so ago and finally just quit messing with it and have enjoyed watching.
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post #726 of 3491 Old 11-19-2005, 06:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LMCid View Post

Anyone knows of any hired killers up in Hong Kong that accept payment via credit card or Paypal . There is one HC3000 coming my way based on your original recommendation!...

Please send the money to me if that make you feel better!

As said, CKL bought one. Let's hope his own unit will be better or even better that it can be tuned up.

regards,

Li On
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post #727 of 3491 Old 11-19-2005, 07:21 PM
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anyone tried it with the Xbox 360 yet? Impressions on what Ridge Racer and PGR3 look like please!
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post #728 of 3491 Old 11-19-2005, 10:39 PM
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Remember the cine4home.de final review is expected any day now. They only posted a prelim (but even so detailed and long) review on a pre-production unit. They didn't explore BrilliantColor or user gamma changes.

And they usually follow with a detailed tweak posting on PJ's they like, and they have already said they like the HC3000.

All of us may have some more tweaking info soon!

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post #729 of 3491 Old 11-19-2005, 10:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Corr View Post

I copied cine4home's settings a week or so ago and finally just quit messing with it and have enjoyed watching.

The nerve of you

What looks good to you?

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post #730 of 3491 Old 11-20-2005, 12:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afilipi View Post

I increased brightness from 0 to +16 to avoid the blacks from being crushed (gray screen?).

4) Black level. The HC3000 has slightly better blacks. I expected more of a difference to be honest. Maybe it's because the XD300 has been tweak beyond recognition and I'll have to do the same to the HC3000.

Ales

I just have to comment on this because I had the same problem with crushed blacks as you did. At first I also tried to pump up the brightness but it did not seem to work. Then I found a menu option named "SETUP" from the FEATURE menu. This had to be set to "OFF" position. Any other option will crush the blacks and make brightness controll almost unuseable.
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post #731 of 3491 Old 11-20-2005, 12:51 AM
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From the HC3000 manual
Quote:


SET UP AUTO Select AUTO for normal use. When LANGUAGE is not set to and 460i or
TV60 signal is inputted, the SET UP changes to 7.5% automatically.
OFF Select to make black lighter.
3.75%/7.5% Select to make black intense.
When 7.5% is chosen, the brightness is decreased by set-up cancel function
for U.S. Choose OFF when the image is dark.

Yep, I think you can set this to off to tweak the black level shadow detail. I'm not sure if you hace to do it if BC is on.

Gizm thanks for the post. Anything else to add?

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post #732 of 3491 Old 11-20-2005, 04:10 AM
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As one of the 1st people in the UK with the HC3000 my story goes like this:

To cut a long story short (well not that short actually), I returned my HC3000 yesterday after just a week because again this wasn't the right projector for my eyes.

Positives on the HC3000:

Fantastic PQ. The best under the 2K Mark. (3K$ Mark) Very little screendoor. Deep blacks and very well resolved shadow detail. Brilliant Color worked very well giving a lot of extra sparkle and saturation to the colours. Although on some material I preferred it switched off.

Negatives on the HC3000:

Inflexibility of installation. Really only suited to ceiling mounting. Maximum picture zoom low. You really need a bit of distance to get a big picture out of this PJ.

Rainbow Effect - This will not be an issue for some people. But this is the main reason why I've sent this PJ packing. My initial reactions to the RBE on this projector were.. this is bad but I put it down to the fact that I had been ill in the days before I picked it up, had got little sleep and had driven for a few hours on the day I picked it up. I therefore remained non-committal and believed it to be no worse or better than my current DLP projector, expecting the situation to significantly improve after a good nights sleep.

Well... the RBE didn't improve and made contrasty movies like Batman Begins unwatchable. I then started to consider measures that could perhaps help to reduce the RBE like, ND2 filters, lower gain screens e.t.c. It was at this point I also noticed a dead DLP mirror and several smaller DMD imperfections.

The smaller imperfections were not an issue but the dead mirror was. Once noticed, I couldn't help but look for it in bright scenes. It was easy to see and far easier to notice that a stuck LCD pixel. I then made the decision to get shot of my 2nd projector in 2 weeks.. (I returned a Z4 the previous week because the absolute black level was very poor. Blacks were way off. Worse than my old Optoma H30!!)

Perhaps with a few set-up changes, ND2 filter, lower gain screen the RBE would reduce to an acceptable level.. but who knows it may not, and I'm left with a PJ I can't watch with 100 hrs on the bulb. I don't think the retailer would be too happy to take that back.

4000:1 Contrast with a 4 speed 6 segment colour wheel. Why oh... why didn't Mitsubishi improve this area of the PJ design!!!!!

Overall

If your eyes can bear it the HC3000 throws a sublime picture. I really didn't want to return it but with the RBE and the dead mirror it wasn't a PJ I could live with. The Z4 for me was a much easier watch but the black level to me was awful.

Oh... well back to the drawing board. I'm really at a loss now and really gutted having to return the HC3000 because the PQ was outstanding at this price level. The black level of LCD just doesn't cut it for me but maybe I'll just have to take that route and live with the inferior black level.


(Note: Before anyone asks why didn't you demo the HC3000 before you bought it, well I did. I spent 2 hours with it comparing it against the Z4 on a 110 inch greyhawk screen. I saw 3 rainbows in all that time. The combination of a large grey screen and a small amount of ambient light made for a demo room very sympathetic to the RBE. It just goes to show that unless a demo room and screen is an exact match of what you have at home you really can't trust it)
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post #733 of 3491 Old 11-20-2005, 06:31 AM
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Zags,

That's unfortunate. I always thought I was very prone to RBE. I used to see rainbows all the time and get headaches from watching dlps. I guess it's very installation and settings dependent as I just don't see them with the 3000 in my room. I've noticed it a couple times but it's much less than the BenQ 7700 and Infocus 4805 I had before it.

What are your room conditions and screen you were using? Might help give an idea to others looking at this projector as to what conditions support RBE.

My room is light controlled, walls and ceiling are dark colored, screen is a 1.3 gain.
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post #734 of 3491 Old 11-20-2005, 08:20 AM
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This DLP projector is certainly the first on my list. The only thing that worries me about it is its large vertical offset. My home theater is in a basement and my ceiling is 93 inches high.

Could please HC3000 owners tell me how far from the ceiling is it possible to get the picture? My screen is 16:9 (106 inches diag.) and I plan to hang the PJ as close to the ceiling as possible. According to Mitsubishi's guide, the PJ's offset would be 17,5 inches, plus half the projector's height equals an image 20 inches from the ceiling. The bottom of my picture would be at 21 inches from the ground.
Using the PJ's extra horizontal scan lines, I believe I can make this 23 inches.

The problem is I want the screen to be about 29 inches from the floor, 6 inches higher...and I don't want to use keystone. Has anyone tilted the PJ? I know the image becomes trapezoidal, but to what extent? is is easily visible?

Please current HC3000 owners, tell me I can get the picture higher on the wall...about 12 to 14 inches from the ceiling would be great. How did you do that? and dit it change the picture's quality or shape???


Thanks everyone for your time!

Stef
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post #735 of 3491 Old 11-20-2005, 08:28 AM
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Is there any reason why both the ae700 and the ae900 would report PAL 2:2 cadence from an upscaling DVD player (oppo OPDV971H) as 750/60p rather than 750/50p as you would expect?

I get this on both the picture menu and the service check menu. The DVD player is definitely set up to output PAL and 2:2 cadence is supported. I'm upscaling to 720p using DVI to HDMI. I get the same at all the other resolutions too: 540p and 1080i both display as 60Hz, rather than the 50 I would expect. When not upscaled (576p) the pj doesn't display a Hz figure.

Thanks,

Dave
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post #736 of 3491 Old 11-20-2005, 08:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dgkp View Post

Is there any reason why both the ae700 and the ae900 would report PAL 2:2 cadence from an upscaling DVD player (oppo OPDV971H) as 750/60p rather than 750/50p as you would expect?

I get this on both the picture menu and the service check menu. The DVD player is definitely set up to output PAL and 2:2 cadence is supported. I'm upscaling to 720p using DVI to HDMI. I get the same at all the other resolutions too: 540p and 1080i both display as 60Hz, rather than the 50 I would expect. When not upscaled (576p) the pj doesn't display a Hz figure.

Thanks,

Dave

I think you may have clicked on the wrong thread. You'll probably get better reaction on this one.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=586260

Mike
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post #737 of 3491 Old 11-20-2005, 09:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stef2 View Post

This DLP projector is certainly the first on my list. The only thing that worries me about it is its large vertical offset. My home theater is in a basement and my ceiling is 93 inches high.

Could please HC3000 owners tell me how far from the ceiling is it possible to get the picture? My screen is 16:9 (106 inches diag.) and I plan to hang the PJ as close to the ceiling as possible. According to Mitsubishi's guide, the PJ's offset would be 17,5 inches, plus half the projector's height equals an image 20 inches from the ceiling. The bottom of my picture would be at 21 inches from the ground.
Using the PJ's extra horizontal scan lines, I believe I can make this 23 inches.

The problem is I want the screen to be about 29 inches from the floor, 6 inches higher...and I don't want to use keystone. Has anyone tilted the PJ? I know the image becomes trapezoidal, but to what extent? is is easily visible?

Please current HC3000 owners, tell me I can get the picture higher on the wall...about 12 to 14 inches from the ceiling would be great. How did you do that? and dit it change the picture's quality or shape???

Thanks everyone for your time!


Hmmm, your measurements seem a bit off.

93"-20"=73 subracting the usual height for a 16:9 106" screen (including the border): 73-56=17" to the ground...

Conversely 93"-56" leaves 37" to work within...

My room is slightly shorter at 90" so the problem with my 106" screen is even more acute, without fancy tilts the screen would end up 14" above the floor. Right now at 24" above the floor it seems about right, lower would not be my preference.

This may be be the first limiting factor for this PJ at my house.

What was the general rule of thumb, the viewer should be looking straight ahead at the horizontal center of the screen?

Al
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post #738 of 3491 Old 11-20-2005, 10:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Corr View Post

Zags,

What are your room conditions and screen you were using? Might help give an idea to others looking at this projector as to what conditions support RBE.

My room is light controlled, walls and ceiling are dark colored, screen is a 1.3 gain.

Brian

For reference I use a 80 inch Carada BW screen. Gain of 1.4. I sit at approx 12ft away, 1.9 screen widths in a dark cave (Grey carpet and ceiling, dark red walls) totally light controlled.

With my Optoma H30 I experience rainbows but not frequently enough to want to buy an LCD projector. With the HC3000 with the lamp on low and the iris closed I was seeing rainbows almost constantly.

I believe the increase in rainbows was caused by the extra brightness and contrast of the HC3000. An ND2 filter or lower gain screen may of helped and it was the route I had decided to take. I then noticed a dead mirror which just tipped the balance. I turned the PJ off, packed it up and returned it to the retailer.

Zags
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post #739 of 3491 Old 11-20-2005, 11:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Sherwood View Post


What was the general rule of thumb, the viewer should be looking straight ahead at the horizontal center of the screen?


I have also heard staring straight ahead your line of sight should be 1/3 from the bottom as opposed to half. I don't think it would matter for movie enjoyment, but perhaps optimizing the screen's gain may play a role.

Greg
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post #740 of 3491 Old 11-20-2005, 02:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Sherwood View Post

Hmmm, your measurements seem a bit off.

93"-20"=73 subracting the usual height for a 16:9 106" screen (including the border): 73-56=17" to the ground...

Conversely 93"-56" leaves 37" to work within...

My room is slightly shorter at 90" so the problem with my 106" screen is even more acute, without fancy tilts the screen would end up 14" above the floor. Right now at 24" above the floor it seems about right, lower would not be my preference.

This may be be the first limiting factor for this PJ at my house.

What was the general rule of thumb, the viewer should be looking straight ahead at the horizontal center of the screen?



Sorry if my measurements were off...the numbers I was quoting were for the visible screen itself, excluding the boder (thus a 52 inches high screen... 93" - 52" leaves 41" if the offset is 20" visible screen is 21" above ground). How do you end up with a sceen 24 inches above the floor (with the HC 3000) if your room is only 90 inches high? Did you tilt the screen? did you use keystone?

Stef
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post #741 of 3491 Old 11-21-2005, 03:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LMCid View Post

Anyone knows of any hired killers up in Hong Kong that accept payment via credit card or Paypal .



Accept no substitutes.

I have to scratch the HC3000 from my list because I'm hypersensitive to rainbows. 4x CW won't cut it.

Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows.
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post #742 of 3491 Old 11-21-2005, 05:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Li On View Post

Please send the money to me if that make you feel better!

As said, CKL bought one. Let's hope his own unit will be better or even better that it can be tuned up.

regards,

Li On

Yes, I will send you the money. Here are the instructions:

Take 50 mg Hydrogen Cyanide gas or 200-300 mg Cyanide salts
on an empty stomach.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Grubert View Post



Accept no substitutes.

Grubert, sounds good but might be a little bit over my budget... I was thinking maybe CKL will help me out if he can't get those reds to look just right ...

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post #743 of 3491 Old 11-21-2005, 05:40 AM
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Here is my comment. Mitsubishi use to produce good red in their previous products. It is hard to describ red from HC3000. It is not orange-red nor purple-red. I can say it is not fresh and saturated enough. More accurate description is the red being dull. At HDMI input, HC3000 can't adjust the color or tint. I've checked the level of color and tint with AVIA. It shows both settings are correct. But after I add certain amount of Color at Crystalio. The red is improved. I don't change the default Hue because it can't help after I move it up and down.

Please be reminded that Red coordinates at CIE is close to the NTSC standard and flesh tone is still balance. After I watch more than 10 DVDs, I think the overall color rendering is acceptable. I will try CC20R filter with HC3000 tomorrow to see if the red can be improved further. It seems that HC3000 is so bright that has a room for tweaking with filter.

After all, I won't reject HC3000. It still has the strength to let me keep it. I've reported the situation to Mitsubishi and hope their engineer to improve the red by upgrade the firmware.
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post #744 of 3491 Old 11-21-2005, 05:46 AM
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CKL,

If you are in touch with the Mitsubishi engineer, it might be a good thing to suggest them that they include a color wheel speed option menu (like that of the BenQ PE7700, which toggles 4x/5x). Thanks.

Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows.
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post #745 of 3491 Old 11-21-2005, 01:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CKL View Post

Here is my comment. Mitsubishi use to produce good red in their previous products. It is hard to describ red from HC3000. It is not orange-red nor purple-red. I can say it is not fresh and saturated enough. More accurate description is the red being dull.

Is this with BrilliantColor turned on or off?

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post #746 of 3491 Old 11-21-2005, 02:37 PM
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The new HC3000 review from cine4home.de is up.

http://www.cine4home.de/tests/projek...HC3000Test.htm

Argh It is only Part 1, with other parts to follow in the next few days They do rave about its solid construction and glass optics and they do open it to see the circuit boards optical path and soundproofing.

No observations on the image.

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post #747 of 3491 Old 11-21-2005, 03:00 PM
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How can I read this in English?

Thanks!
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post #748 of 3491 Old 11-21-2005, 06:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Arthur Hancock View Post

How can I read this in English?

Thanks!

go to http://babelfish.altavista.com/ , then enter the website you want translated and choose German to English from the pull down menu.
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post #749 of 3491 Old 11-21-2005, 07:46 PM
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Originally Posted by stef2 View Post

Sorry if my measurements were off...the numbers I was quoting were for the visible screen itself, excluding the boder (thus a 52 inches high screen... 93" - 52" leaves 41" if the offset is 20" visible screen is 21" above ground). How do you end up with a sceen 24 inches above the floor (with the HC 3000) if your room is only 90 inches high? Did you tilt the screen? did you use keystone?

Sorry to confuse you Stef, I don't have the HC3000, and won't likely buy one due to the mounting problems you are discovering. Tilting the screen or using the keystone correction is not on my list of adjustments when placing a projector.

I'm either in for a H78DC3 or waiting for the H81!

Al
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post #750 of 3491 Old 11-22-2005, 12:20 AM
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Is this with BrilliantColor turned on or off?

BC won't affect the color. It just provides a bit punchier. I leave the BC be ON.
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Reply Digital Projectors - Under $3,000 USD MSRP

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