Sanyo Z4 MSRP $2999 - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 2046 Old 09-07-2005, 11:30 AM
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Hey Mods,

Can we get a Sticky on this? I picked this because it is the "biggest" Z4 thread. Maybe it needs a name change, but if we could get it Stickied, we'd have all 4 new 720P LCD threads together at the top of the page.

Just a thought, G
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post #92 of 2046 Old 09-07-2005, 11:45 AM
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Yep, meant to. Just forgot

Someday maybe I'll actually WATCH my projector...
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post #93 of 2046 Old 09-07-2005, 12:10 PM
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I have owned several sony pjs -- cpj series,vpl series,data series and not one ever showed vb. Sony has never had a problem with it maybe its their panels or maybe its something that is in the hardware that fixes it. But I agree if sony can make an 8 year old pj (cpj series) not have vb whats up with epson and their pjs??? jeff
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post #94 of 2046 Old 09-07-2005, 01:44 PM
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Apparently you guys are not reading the other D5 panel threads. Specifically the Epson TW600 one. Frank456 is a projector technician in Canada. From his post #101 (RE: tests on D4 panels) in the Epson TW600 thread, he observes:
Quote:
Originally Posted by frank456 View Post

Single panel 'full field' performance which we do to measure a panels total 'light spread' has never revealed a banding problem. Banding is a 'multi panel' issue as the 3 LCD components must work together to project the final picture element. Panel alignment from what I have seen in full production models is not great on massed produced projectors. Come on 'Japan' and get with the program.

I conclude that there is more to VB than just the panels themselves. The Z3 that I saw, had no VB. Both the AE500 and the AE700 that I saw had VB, the AE700 was much better, and the owner has reported that the VB has decreased with more hours on his PJ. I suspect that the amount of VB, that has been seen, has to do with pixel boundary uniformity in each panel, as well as, panel allignment in the PJ assembly.

- Claus {non-Santa model}
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post #95 of 2046 Old 09-07-2005, 03:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Isn't that contradictory? Panel alignment nor panels themselves change with use.

Neko
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post #96 of 2046 Old 09-07-2005, 03:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KuroNeko View Post

Rlindo, I don't need to translate the article - I speak German fluently. And excuse me, but I have more confindence in Ekkehart's test, however preliminary, than wishfull thinking from those who neither read the full article nor have seen the PJ.

Scott, the hype around D5 was that these panels by themselves would solve VB. If the first PJ out there with D5 still has VB, that means the panels do not solve the issue, and VB is still a major problem to be taken into account with LCD. That alone will disappoint many who have been waiting with great anticipation for D5 technology.

Let's not help companies hype products, there's plenty of that around already.

Neko

For fug's sake, it is ONE TEST of a PRE PRODUCTION UNIT. Don't make conclusions based on that!!

For all you know Sanyo screwed something up and this SINGLE LONE Z4 had VB while EVERY OTHER D5 based pj from sanyo and other manus will be VB free

I have a question....if 234 thousand other reviewers say they viewed z4s and saw no VB will you change your tune? Naturally you won't because then you wont have something to harp about here.

ROB
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post #97 of 2046 Old 09-07-2005, 03:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KuroNeko View Post

Isn't that contradictory? Panel alignment nor panels themselves change with use.

Neko

do you even have an LCD based PJ?

I have the Epson 500 and it had minimal VB when I got it and now the VB is like basically gone. On the flip side I have had another LCD pj where the VB seemed to have become worse over time...so I think there is mroe ot VB than what mnay assume there is.

ROB
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post #98 of 2046 Old 09-07-2005, 03:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Please watch the tone.
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post #99 of 2046 Old 09-07-2005, 03:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KuroNeko View Post

Please watch the tone.

way to answer my questions...

ROB
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post #100 of 2046 Old 09-07-2005, 03:57 PM - Thread Starter
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@Rob: You did't ask questions, you simply spouted some insulting remarks.

If you wish to continue to ignore the test results from a reputable tester, highly respected in this forum, or simply do away with the result by assuming Sanyo has made an error, feel free.

The conclusion was simple logic: people thought VB would be fixed in the D5 panels themselves (whether this is just a rumour or info by Epson). VB shows up on a D5 PJ (preproduction maybe, but production panels, so if VB was fixed by the panels it wouldn't show up). In short: the VB issue is not fixed by the D5 panels. Maybe PJ manufacturers will be able to reduce it by menu settings, as they already di in D4 models, but we're still looking at the same situation as with D4 PJs.

The fact the Sanyo is a preproduction model does not change anything at all on the validity of this conclusion. We're still looking at a lottery to get a VB-free PJ.

Full production model test results on Panasonic, Epson, Hitachi and Sanyo will be out soon. Curious how you will react on the results...

Neko
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post #101 of 2046 Old 09-07-2005, 04:28 PM
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Meanwhile, back to VB. Prior to buying my Z3 in April, I read every post on the Z3 and the AE700 I could find. VB was a big issue with many AE700 owners, and was a non-issue with all but a few Z3 owners. The one AE700 I viewed before deciding had distracting VB. I have never seen VB on my Z3 despite looking for it.

Now, I'm gonna quit reading this thread because the more you read about a particular image defect, the more likely you are to see it on your own PJ. ;-)

Ricketty
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post #102 of 2046 Old 09-07-2005, 05:25 PM
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Ya, I went through TWO AE-700s, and both had annoying VB. Returned both, now I am TV-less and PJ-less. I wanted to like the Panny, as I loved my old Panny HDTV..

So based on MY experience, the AE-700 in terms of VB is pretty bad, even with all the flicker tweaking and hard power-off.

It should NOT be a lottery to be able to watch a clean screen. It is really bothersome to watch football with lines on the grass.

Other than that, the AE-700 is a fantasic PJ.
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post #103 of 2046 Old 09-08-2005, 06:15 AM
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vb this, vb that....

i have the ae300 and have never noticed anything untoward. hope i nmver see it, people here treat it like the plague.

i do agree with rlindo that we should wait a bit and find out more when production models are available to be tested.

krlock2

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post #104 of 2046 Old 09-08-2005, 12:29 PM
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I'm with you Rickety and Rlindo on this one, I have had a Z2 for over a year, it is supposed to be prone to VB, at least if you listen to biased comments. Has perfomed flawlessly right out of the box. Sure, there is always the chance you'll get a lemon, that is not unique to LCD projectors.

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post #105 of 2046 Old 09-08-2005, 12:46 PM
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Best thing about this unit is price. Well we are not allowed to quote prices here but lets say its less than msrp in europe already and available to preorder.
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post #106 of 2046 Old 09-08-2005, 02:39 PM
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"It should NOT be a lottery to be able to watch a clean screen. It is really bothersome to watch football with lines on the grass."

I could swear those lines are suppose to be there?
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post #107 of 2046 Old 09-08-2005, 07:25 PM
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With the eventual begining of HD-DVD or BLUE RAY, talking about a new PJ from SANYO being a 1080i max resolution sounds a little unevolved.
Why isn't a company involved in HD not presenting a 1080p capable PJ for use in future formats??
The launching of the Z4 doesn't prevail in my future interest of upgrading my PJ.
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post #108 of 2046 Old 09-08-2005, 07:30 PM
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Ha ha Gearhead...not THOSE lines...
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post #109 of 2046 Old 09-09-2005, 02:02 AM
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Did I read someplace that the Sanyo z4 will have 12 bit digital picture processing while most others have 10 bit? If so, what does that actually do for the picture, is it just a matter of more shades of the colors? Please enlighten.
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post #110 of 2046 Old 09-09-2005, 06:10 AM
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Doe anyone know where there seems to be a big gap between EUR MSRPs and US MSRP with these new projectors? His this historically been the case? Is there any way to import these projectors while retaining the warranty?
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post #111 of 2046 Old 09-09-2005, 06:12 AM
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Historically, yes, there has been a gap in the MSRP. Many people are importing them, however the warranty will often require you to send it back to the point of origin.

Someday maybe I'll actually WATCH my projector...
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post #112 of 2046 Old 09-09-2005, 11:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by winstone View Post

With the eventual begining of HD-DVD or BLUE RAY, talking about a new PJ from SANYO being a 1080i max resolution sounds a little unevolved.
Why isn't a company involved in HD not presenting a 1080p capable PJ for use in future formats??
The launching of the Z4 doesn't prevail in my future interest of upgrading my PJ.

If you are interested in 1080p in a front projector at this time you need to head over to the >$3500 forum. 1080p projectors are not <$3500 and I don't think they will be for at least a year or two.

Laters,
Jeff

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post #113 of 2046 Old 09-09-2005, 05:02 PM
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post #114 of 2046 Old 09-09-2005, 06:45 PM
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post #115 of 2046 Old 09-09-2005, 09:21 PM
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Yeap, there seem to be quote a few Euro dealers taking pre-orders on the z4 for a very good price. Still waiting to see what the EUR/USD differential will be...
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post #116 of 2046 Old 09-10-2005, 09:19 AM
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Sanyo has measured contrast on its first production units and upped their official contrast spec to 7000:1
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post #117 of 2046 Old 09-10-2005, 09:30 AM
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Hm so in paper Z4 sounds good vs Z3. 12-bit vs 10-bit. 7000:1 vs 2000:1. 2x zoom vs 1.3x zoom. Automatic lens cover vs manual.
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post #118 of 2046 Old 09-10-2005, 10:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jriihi View Post

Hm so in paper Z4 sounds good vs Z3. 12-bit vs 10-bit. 7000:1 vs 2000:1. 2x zoom vs 1.3x zoom. Automatic lens cover vs manual.

I agree that all this does sound good. But now that the Z3 is dropping so much in price (half of its release price here in the UK), is it worth paying almost twice as much for the Z4 to get these features ?
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post #119 of 2046 Old 09-10-2005, 01:15 PM
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I am still trying to find out what the differences will be between 12 bit adn10 bit digital picture. Could someone explain this parameter to me. Thanks.
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post #120 of 2046 Old 09-10-2005, 01:30 PM
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12bit video processing can reproduce more colors than a 10bit... Actually, i don't know if you will see any difference...
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