Sony HS-60 details - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 914 Old 09-06-2005, 02:24 AM - Thread Starter
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http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...11#post6145911

See the link to the Sony Japan site posted by Peter Caesar!

http://www.sony.jp/CorporateCruise/P...00509/05-0906/

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post #2 of 914 Old 09-06-2005, 02:42 AM
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I'm pretty sure if it support non-crop 1:1 mapping over HDMI it will be my next projector!

But history tells us it will have some srewup flaw, again...

regards,

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post #3 of 914 Old 09-06-2005, 03:02 AM
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Thanks for the info Highjinx. The HS60 looks very nice on paper, however, it seems to be using the same lamp and has the same lumen spec as the HS50. I have a large low gain screen which meant that the HS50 had insufficient light output. I suspect that the same will hold true for the HS60.
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post #4 of 914 Old 09-06-2005, 03:19 AM
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HS20 came almost identical to the HS10, but better.

HS51/50 was a major diference

So HS60 should be very similar to the HS51/50 but better...

Hope the prices falls a bit cause Z4 / AE900 are way cheaper with similar features...
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post #5 of 914 Old 09-06-2005, 03:28 AM - Thread Starter
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With a full iris on on/off contrast of 10,000:1, I wonder what the full iris open on/off is. The HS-50/51 is something like 1000:1 in that state, I think. Would be excellent value, if this unit has a better iris open contrast than its predecessor! A 2000:1 or even 3000:1 would be nice, but going by a similar ratio to its older sibling, perhaps 1500:1?! hmmm!

At 800Lumens pre cal, definitely a small screen unit as you say Scott B(even the new 1920x1080 SXRD is limited to 800lumens, they seem to be keeping the high lumen output for the flagship Qualia 004) and HDMI implementation had better be perfect!!!

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post #6 of 914 Old 09-06-2005, 03:34 AM
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It seems to use non-organic panel,which will last longer.
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post #7 of 914 Old 09-06-2005, 03:53 AM
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asterix
where did you read non organic for hs60? The commonly used term is inorganic as opposed to organic?
Was Bi:NA 6 mentioned?

I think hs60 probably tops out at 1500:1 in open iris mode in a best case scenario.

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post #8 of 914 Old 09-06-2005, 05:01 AM
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Looking at the Japanese site it appears they are using a new Dynamic Iris. It doesn't look anything like the previous generation. My guess is it closes down farther then the old one which boosted the contrast a bit. Well not a bit, by over 50%, but still.

And sorry, if this thing is near those numbers (and my HS51 is almost dead on the Sony numbers) this thing will wipe the floor with the 900 and Z4 for contrast. Lumens are a bit low, but I have a smaller screen so no worries there! But I'm still eyeing that new SXRD PJ personally.

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post #9 of 914 Old 09-06-2005, 05:08 AM
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very nice look forward to seeing more information and reviews
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post #10 of 914 Old 09-06-2005, 05:23 AM
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Except it seems to be a bit on the expensive side, even up to twice the price of e.g. the TW600.... until we get the official prices of both. But if it is, I know where my money will be.

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post #11 of 914 Old 09-06-2005, 05:30 AM
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Quote:
Looking at the Japanese site it appears they are using a new Dynamic Iris. It doesn't look anything like the previous generation. My guess is it closes down farther then the old one which boosted the contrast a bit. Well not a bit, by over 50%, but still.


Nope, the HS60 has a new technique (in addition to the adaptive Iris), it uses a special "High Contrast Plate" attached to the LCDs. This should increase the contrast even without adaptive Iris by quite some amount.

I wrote some expected numbers on our webpage.

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post #12 of 914 Old 09-06-2005, 05:48 AM
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Interesting speculation from your site. I am surprised that they did not take things one step further and add a cinema filter as Epson does. That works wonders for contrast at D65.
Question
What is your opininon on Bi:NA 6. Could that be several times the contrast of current lcd? If that is the case Bi:NA 6 would beat sxrd in contrast. Both use the same technology one being reflective and one transmissive. Why would they differ in contrast?

nilsp
Correct, hs60 is starting at a higher price than hs50 did.

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post #13 of 914 Old 09-06-2005, 05:54 AM
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I am surprised that they did not take things one step further and add a cinema filter as Epson does. That works wonders for contrast at D65.


Well, that is OUR work to do


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post #14 of 914 Old 09-06-2005, 06:00 AM
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well, at least they took the time and trouble to update the exterior.....

it would be silly if we couldnt tell the hs50 and hs60 apart, wouldnt it????



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post #15 of 914 Old 09-06-2005, 06:02 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krlock2 View Post

well, at least they took the time and trouble to update the exterior.....

would be silly if we couldnt tell the hs50 and hs60 apart, wouldnt it????

krlock2

Looks the same as the HS-51 to me!

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post #16 of 914 Old 09-06-2005, 06:05 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cine4Home View Post

Nope, the HS60 has a new technique (in addition to the adaptive Iris), it uses a special "High Contrast Plate" attached to the LCDs. This should increase the contrast even without adaptive Iris by quite some amount.

I wrote some expected numbers on our webpage.

Regards,
Ekkehart, www.cine4home.de


Ekkehart...............did I gather correctly that you expect a 2000:1 On/Off Cr with the iris open?

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post #17 of 914 Old 09-06-2005, 06:28 AM
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Cine4Home
There looks like there will be plenty of work for you
Sanyo z4
Panasonic ae900
Hitachi tx200
Sony hs60

I wonder what your insight is in lcd future. Both Sony and Epson are moving in the same direction with Bi:NA 6 and Crystal clear fine. Do you expect the dramatic contrast increases they talk about. I exemplified with d-ila and sxrd that already uses the trick that lcd is adopting and they are no contrast stars.

I also think people have taken your VB comment out of proportion. Could you give more comments on VB for z4. I know you pointed out this is not the final product.

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post #18 of 914 Old 09-06-2005, 07:30 AM
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51 and 60 look the same to me too???

Cine4home

The new plate in the HS60 is confirmed by Sony? Are they using different LCD panels then the 51 altogether?

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post #19 of 914 Old 09-06-2005, 07:40 AM
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It will be interesting to see how the Sony HS60 will compare to the Epson TW600. The TW600 will most likely be significantly brighter and be much better calibrated out of the box. The Sony should have better on-off CR, however, this is probably due to a more aggressive DI than due to higher intrinsic CR of the panels used. Other factors which will be important is ANSI contrast, video processing, and the visibility of VB, FPN, and SDE. Value would appear to be on Epson's side, however, this is an unknown until North American pricing is officially released for both of these projectors.
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post #20 of 914 Old 09-06-2005, 08:53 AM
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Nothing new as far as annoucements. All has been posted before -- except for the fact that Sony has finally "officially" announced the products now. The new plate for higher contrast on the lcd panel sounds pretty interesting though. We shall see very soon. Li On I agree if Sony fixed the 1:1 mapping over hdmi--- and I mean REALLY fixed it...This one will be mine. jeff
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post #21 of 914 Old 09-06-2005, 09:38 AM
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I don't want just a fix for the 1:1, I want a pass through for all resolutions. So if I feed it 480P, it just uses the pixels for 480P and so forth like most PJs do. An absolute true pass through.

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post #22 of 914 Old 09-06-2005, 09:48 AM
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The HS60 could be the one that causes me to defect from the DLP camp. I agree that it needs to at least have a 1:1 fix. It will be interesting to see how it looks at CEDIA, especially in comparison to the Epson and others.

Enjoy!

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post #23 of 914 Old 09-06-2005, 09:50 AM
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I was told by an insider that the HS60 uses a new "inorganic alignment layer" that "works much better".

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post #24 of 914 Old 09-06-2005, 10:28 AM
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I guess all of the gray areas will be cleared up on Thursday after the press conference.

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post #25 of 914 Old 09-06-2005, 10:39 AM
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I agree Kris thats what I mean by a REAL fix-- native panel resolution-- feed it 720p and display 1280x720 1:1 no processing. jeff
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post #26 of 914 Old 09-06-2005, 10:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post

I guess all of the gray areas will be cleared up on Thursday after the press conference.

IF we can talk to someone knowledgeable after the press conference.

Hopefully, they'll have more than the PR people on hand.

Enjoy!

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post #27 of 914 Old 09-06-2005, 11:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krlock2 View Post

well, at least they took the time and trouble to update the exterior.....

it would be silly if we couldnt tell the hs50 and hs60 apart, wouldnt it????



krlock2


Sony brilliance IMO. I can swap out the HS60 for my HS51 and the wife will never know.
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post #28 of 914 Old 09-06-2005, 11:23 AM
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So is hs60 using something inbetween old lcd and the coming Bi:NA 6 that will have inorganic alignment layers.

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post #29 of 914 Old 09-06-2005, 12:02 PM
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Sony brilliance IMO. I can swap out the HS60 for my HS51 and the wife will never know.

You must be reading my mind!!

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post #30 of 914 Old 09-06-2005, 12:30 PM
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whats the throw ratio.....Is it close to my now old HS20? Could I put the pj in the same spot? ALSO....I never use the iris function on my 20....I just did not see any contrast boost (almost the oppisite!) and I like the brighter picture. If I were to buy the HS60, I would turn the DI off and enjoy it's native contrast and brightness. I'm also curious if they are using the precurser to BI:Na.....that would sell me. The only thing I'll miss from my HS20 is it's resolution....hence no SDE. I saw the 51 down the street on a greyhawk and it was clearly visible. Maybe I'll wait till next year??????

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