Panny AE900 Official Thread- Please post here! - Page 25 - AVS Forum
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post #721 of 6453 Old 10-21-2005, 03:28 AM
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When is avbuzz.com and ckl going to do a review on the pana ae900? I thought he said it was coming awhile back? I like his reviews because they are very indepth and he compares the projector to the others in its class very well. jeff

Me too, I checked his site today an noticed some sort of article (z4 vs AE900) but unfortunately my chinese is a bit rusty lately .

And I'm also anxiously awaiting cine4home's review. Last week there was a mentioning on this thread that they had a review sample. unfortunately no review as of yet.

TVTED: thank you for your elaboration on the meaning of "amateur". A very refreshing (and very true) perspective (and not something that I plan to forget).
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post #722 of 6453 Old 10-21-2005, 04:09 AM
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I just found this from CKL in the 900 tweak thread. It seems that his review will be posted tomorrow.

"I'm typing the review and may post it at AVBuzz tomorrow"

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post #723 of 6453 Old 10-21-2005, 08:17 AM
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I just got a call from my dealer. The panny 900 has arrived and ready for pick up.
My internet connection is down at home, so I might not be able to post my (brief) findings at this forum until tuesday.

I just hope that my model is free of any serious artefacts (No VB, plenty sharpness and minimal picture noise).

I am glad that this forum has served so well as an outlet for my anticipation, and looking forward to further enhance the performance of the beamer thanks to the contributions of so many posters. Keep up the good work!
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post #724 of 6453 Old 10-21-2005, 09:44 AM
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I unpacked my new AE900 this week, and within minutes of turning it on I noticed some annoying vertical streaks in the picture, particularly with green and greyish colors when I turned on the MLB playoffs.

I popped in my DVE disc, and lo and behold on the opening screen it was plain as day. I've attached a photo; its a little less prominent in this low res photo, but I'm sure you will agree its there and annoying as can be. I also note some pretty bad color uniformity issues in this shot as well, on the left side there's a reddish tinge. I moved the lens shift around and such and it did not change. Likewise the banding is definitely not coming from my screen.

I previously had a 300U, and installed a 700 for my parents this summer and have never noticed this before.

For those of you with a 900 and or a 700, do you see this level of banding? If you have Digital Video Essentials try reproducing this screenshot. I'm calling my dealer today. I also tried the panel adjust in the service menu, which I believe is supposed to be a VB tweak. The default setting was the best, and other settings just made it worse.

Hopefully mine is an anomaly.
LL
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post #725 of 6453 Old 10-21-2005, 10:43 AM
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I can see the vertical streaks a bit. But what really pops out is all the ghosting around the lines and text - is that normal?
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post #726 of 6453 Old 10-21-2005, 10:48 AM
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Scrawner, are you using a component video cable? Make sure green, blue & red are matched up between your source & the projector. That ringing/ghosting effect we're seeing in your screenshot is similar to what I saw when my brother had improperly connected his InFocus 4805.

HD Media Keen Videosaurus
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post #727 of 6453 Old 10-21-2005, 11:25 AM
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Does a straight ahead shot have the same results?
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post #728 of 6453 Old 10-21-2005, 11:28 AM
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I am using component, however I've ruled this out by swapping cables, and also connected an s-video cable and get the same result. Its visible through my DVD and HD sources. Also, when viewing the panel adjust screen in the service menu (driven by the projector) I see the same thing. What's strange is that if you look at the individual pixels close up, there's this interesting 'dithering' type effect in what looks like 4x4 squares of pixels. Whereas one set of pixel 'squares' will be a nice continuous tone, another set will look 'interlaced'.

Funny you mentioned the ghosting, etc. I noticed the same thing, though I popped the DVD in my laptop and the same effect is there if you look closely, although it looks much more prominent on my 900. Coupled with that, the other effect I'm getting is that HD sources that typically look buttery smooth and full of detail often appear mildly to moderately pixellated -- like watching a compressed video stream or a highly compressed jpeg -- the details have this noise effect around them. I never noticed this on the old 300 or 700 units I've had. I've played with all the settings I can think of to no avail.
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post #729 of 6453 Old 10-21-2005, 12:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrawner View Post

I've played with all the settings I can think of to no avail.

It *does* look like you've a case of VB.

As to the pixelation - have you tried playing with the sharpness control.
Are both sources using the same cables through a switch?
How long are your cables? Have you tried short ones?

ted
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post #730 of 6453 Old 10-21-2005, 12:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tvted View Post

It *does* look like you've a case of VB.

As to the pixelation - have you tried playing with the sharpness control.
Are both sources using the same cables through a switch?
How long are your cables? Have you tried short ones?

ted

Thanks Ted -- yes for the moment I've tried several short 3-6 foot cables directly from the source to the projector.

I just figured out the HD pixellation issue fortunately; I was using a brand new Motorola 6412 III tuner (comcast), and I noticed that in the setup menu (a bland black text on a grey background screen) that when using 720p, the text has a prominent ghosting effect that disappeared when I switched to s-video. When I changed it to 1080i it was better but not perfect. I went and swapped in an older 6412 from another tv and the ghosting went away completely! Still have the vertical banding though Thanks for your help.
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post #731 of 6453 Old 10-21-2005, 12:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrawner View Post

Still have the vertical banding though Thanks for your help.

This used to work on the 700 - disconnect the pj from the mains overnight (I run mine trough a power bar so this was simply throwing the switch in my case). I've some thoughts on why this worked, but none that might be considered worthwhile.
After several hundred hrs on my 700 I stopped doing this and VB is not an issue. With the 700 it also went away after about an hour or so of use. Does this happen with the 900?

I must say the VB on my unit was never to the degree that your picture shows. If a warm up period or a disconnect has no impact I would definitely call my dealer since Panasonic seems to be finally acknowledging that there is such an artifact.

Good luck,
ted
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post #732 of 6453 Old 10-21-2005, 01:32 PM
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I'll give the old 700 tweak a try; I sent some screenshots to my vendor and they are going to forward to Panasonic for their feedback. Hopefully that won't impede my ability to get a replacement - maybe Panny would like to take it in as a QA sample

Here are a couple other shots for those interested. I'm still eager to hear from any others with a 900 for comparison. In the Panel Adjust service menu, I find the streaking very visible in both Green and Blue panels. Given that its affecting two panels, I wonder if its a different issue from typical VB. Maybe some sort of interference...
LL
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post #733 of 6453 Old 10-21-2005, 02:35 PM
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My 900 is arriving tomorrow so I have some concern over what your experiencing Scrawner. It may very well be interference. I was wondering whether you tried plugging the PJ into another outlet or are running it through a power conditioner. Also, have you tried taking the cable box (and cable, both physically disconnected) out of the loop and tested just with a DVD? I've had some nasty interference before that tracked back to my Comcast cable. Anyways, as soon as my unit arrives I'll try to reproduce the results you have posted.
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post #734 of 6453 Old 10-21-2005, 04:32 PM
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got my AE900 and spent some 5 hours with it.
no VB here - thanks mighty.
DVD is sony dvp-ns9000es. connections are good svideo cable and super cheap component.
component still looks better - what a surprise .
from 5m on 120" white screen (no brand) picture looks bright enough in low lamp mode.
blacks could be blacker - but constrast, shadows and picture depths are quite good (not CRT kind thought).
NORMAL and CINEMA1 looks most accurate with colors. but i tell it by eye perception - so it might be desceptive.

remote control doesn't peak up at all if you sit behind the projector.
what to do? IR transciever? a mirror?

as a learning remote it's quite useless IMO - to select which component to control (except PJ itself) takes 3 buttons pushes at least (add one more for BACKLITE push if you're in the dark room).
in addition amount of programmable buttons is very limited.
in short - if you need an universal RC - look somewhere else - unless you're ready to push 4 buttons each time you want to switch from receiver to DVD control and vice versa.
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post #735 of 6453 Old 10-21-2005, 05:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tvted View Post

It *does* look like you've a case of VB.

As to the pixelation - have you tried playing with the sharpness control.
Are both sources using the same cables through a switch?
How long are your cables? Have you tried short ones?

ted

I don't think they are VB. They maybe some kind of interference or malfunctioning on the panel, since VB itself should have no color.

Man see things as they were n say why. I dream of things that never were, n say why not ....... A Perfect PROJECTOR
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post #736 of 6453 Old 10-21-2005, 06:38 PM
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One thing for sure, the new Panel Adjust service menu does affect this banding that I'm getting. It has a range of numbers from 11-17 or so, and cycling through these does change the position, and to some extent the quantity and visibility of the lines, but it appears the 'setting' that would be required to get rid of it is outside the calibration range.
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post #737 of 6453 Old 10-21-2005, 07:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrawner View Post

One thing for sure, the new Panel Adjust service menu does affect this banding that I'm getting. It has a range of numbers from 11-17 or so, and cycling through these does change the position, and to some extent the quantity and visibility of the lines, but it appears the 'setting' that would be required to get rid of it is outside the calibration range.

I had the same problem. If I could have gone further in one of the extremes, then I think that it would have been better.
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post #738 of 6453 Old 10-22-2005, 06:15 AM
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Scrawner:

Hope you'll get a new pj..without vb. Maybe this one just slipped away..
I still owned the little old dino ( AE100 ) .. with vb as showned on your pic's.. but it doesn't bother me at all.. it reminds of the old days when projecting 16mm and S8
Anyway Good luck !
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post #739 of 6453 Old 10-22-2005, 08:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ac388 View Post

I don't think they are VB. They maybe some kind of interference or malfunctioning on the panel, since VB itself should have no color.

Er..... colour?
You're right it *is* independent of the primaries though it *is* panel dependent. However, a full field of a singular colour like green or the blue one that Scrawner posted makes it readily apparent. You will have to clarify what you are getting at.

ted
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post #740 of 6453 Old 10-22-2005, 10:44 AM
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so are most of you guys pleased with the image quality? How would you rate it against say, the picture quality of the local movie theater you generally go to?
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post #741 of 6453 Old 10-22-2005, 11:37 AM
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For you non-expert home theatre enthusiasts...

I have just set up my ae900 on a smallish room (11' throw) and have projected a 100 inch diagonal image.

For now, i'm projecting on a light yellow coloured wall in a room with very bright walls. When I finish painting the room darker and painting a grey or white screen, I'm sure the image will be better. I've just been using the Cinema 1 mode.

That being said, I'm extremely impressed with the picture quality. To my amateur eyes it is almost flawless. I would say it is better than my local theatre.

I noticed fairly severe verticle banding on a ae700 demo unit. I can see no trace of that with my projector. Also, I can only see the screendoor effect when I stand 2 or 3 feet from the screen.

I don't have much to compare this to, but I'm certainly not disappointed.

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post #742 of 6453 Old 10-22-2005, 11:55 AM
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I looked at two, they were very similar, WAY better than the 700 they had on.

Very very minimal VB, Way Way better than the 700, and I was looking for any dead pixels, none that I could see on both 900's.

Much less fan noise also.

back at 1.3 screen width, 480i dvd looked incredible! I can only imagine HD.

I picked up some black out cloth for a screen.

I have to set it up now and feed it some HD clips, I only have component cables for now.

I'll post an update once I have it out of the box!

I'm very happy I had the chance to see a couple of 900's before I purchased and am pleased they were both excellent.

Darryl
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post #743 of 6453 Old 10-22-2005, 12:47 PM
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I'm projecting a 120" image on a diy blackout cloth screen from 13'. My viewing distance is around 14'. Using Cinema 1, low power mode, basic adjustments with Avia. Picture is excellent with no visible SDE or VB. My unit has a convergence problem (I posted about this earlier) and I will be exchanging the unit for a new one. In spite of the slight misconvergence, the picture is great! Well saturated colors, sufficient contrast, plenty bright and sharp. Probably will get a bit sharper with a new unit that has dead on convergence, but its no slouch.
Very satisfied ...
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post #744 of 6453 Old 10-22-2005, 01:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by isamu View Post

so are most of you guys pleased with the image quality? How would you rate it against say, the picture quality of the local movie theater you generally go to?

Better than most local cineplexs in my area which often suffer from smallish screens, trashed prints, bulb fade, dirty gates, cheap screen materials etc...

Especially better than our only local art-house which only has 200 inch screens, seating for 20 in each of the 4 theaters and a screen which looks like your projecting onto sparkly muslim - very distracting and low contrast to boot.

Not as good as crisp prints and archival 35mm projection at NC School of the Arts, which is truly stunning and humbles any HT setup (50ft state of the art screen, stunning 35mm projector with zero gate weave, flicker etc. Jaw-dropping. Maybe we will get something close to that with Blue Ray sources and unlimited contrast range projection in 5-10 years.

That said, my 900 is a hit with me and friends. Tonight is our weekly movie night - on tap "Diva" and some Res shorts.

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post #745 of 6453 Old 10-22-2005, 02:39 PM
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z4 vs pan 900 shootout on a dutch forum by J.A.F. Doorhof (I hope he doesn't mind me linking it here).

quote:

"Conclusion
For me on THIS moment without doubt the Panasonic 900, the purchase advice is.
Despite the advantages of the cleaning by the Z4 and the better AB and lensshift, I find not tell the iris really many to annoying and thought through by the Z4.
I settle rather for a something lower CR and a fantastic image without artifacts and swings.

Furthermore is them to me striking in order to see them to me how ongelovelijk much more detail there in the small details to to see be by the new panels, by the fifth element and the DVE DIRECTLY demo to pieces is the fantastic details to to see that you on the older panels scarcely wanted to see.

The panasonic is projected for me on THIS moment the best LCD on the market under the 2000.00.
I have been aroused curiosity QUITE to the new Epsons."

I can't give you a direct link, spam prevention.
Feel free to post a direct link below this post.


htorum
.
nl
yabbse
/
index.php?
topic=35753.0



for translation use

freetranslation
com
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post #746 of 6453 Old 10-22-2005, 07:02 PM
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Folks,

Need you help. Could you please let me know how big of a picture I could get with a throw of 11.5'? The calculator would suggest 57" without zoom. What would I compromise with zoom? How far can you take it without losing pic quality?

Thanks!
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post #747 of 6453 Old 10-22-2005, 07:38 PM
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Well, I just received my AE900 and set it up. It is replacing an Infocus Screenplay 110 (similar to the 4805) and projects onto a 100" Stewart Firehawk screen. I have it mounted on the ceiling (~7.5 ft from floor) about 17' from the screen. First impressions are that it is easy to get up and running. I LOVE the lens shift adjust feature. Menu is fairly straight forward as is the remote. Now to the picture (I am using component cables about 20' long):
Overall, this unit puts out a really nice, smooth picture with few noticible artifacts. The quality is HIGHLY dependent on the source material, even varying from DVD to DVD. HD material from the Comcast DVR was very impressive where I spent the last hour watching the World Series and College Football (in partial light to boot). In comparison to my Infocus unit, the benefits of added resolution are clearly apparent. However, the colors with the 900 aren't as deep and are suffering from a yellow bias. I haven't had the time to play around too much, but this is as viewed in normal mode before and after modest adjustment using the Avia disk. Video mode seemed slightly better while other modes appeared completely useless for my screen. As far as the blacks go (one of my concerns going from DLP to LCD), they are just fine with plenty of detail. Most notably, at last...no rainbows! I previously had this problem watching football action under DLP. Text appears better as well, most likely from the resolution step up. These are initial impressions. Clearly I need more time to fully adjust to the new unit but so far have no regrets.
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post #748 of 6453 Old 10-22-2005, 09:04 PM
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ckl has the review of the ae900 up now check it out...... sweet looks good to me--jeff
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post #749 of 6453 Old 10-22-2005, 11:41 PM
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http://www.avbuzz.com/audio-video/20...-ckl/index.htm

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post #750 of 6453 Old 10-23-2005, 12:33 AM
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I'm confused as to where the "noise" comes from on the AE900 or what causes it. Apparently, this is the main issue that CKL has with this projector. Otherwise, it would be pretty close to perfect picture quality.
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