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Digital Projectors - Under $3,000 USD MSRP

darinp2's Avatar darinp2
12:26 PM Liked: 76
post #181 of 6453
10-05-2005 | Posts: 21,230
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I can look through the manual later, but does anybody know if the AE900 will modulate the lamp if you put it on high? I haven't followed whether they dropped the lamp modulation now that they have the dynamic iris with the bigger range.

--Darin
MRJAZZZ's Avatar MRJAZZZ
01:16 PM Liked: 10
post #182 of 6453
10-05-2005 | Posts: 787
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The VB, is very noticealbe on the DALITE HIGH POWER, (2.8 GAIN)with the PANY floor mounted. My best guess is I am getting something like 2, to 2.5 gain, in that location. Is very noticeable on light backgrounds. Not so much during pans, but just a very bright , light, back ground, you can see it. Having just said this, I can see how some might say it is so slight, why worry about it,etc. however when your used to viewing other projectors that do not have this issue, well one does worry. I do have to say last night, i sensed I wasnt seeing the VB, as bad as the first night, nor, quite as bad as when I first turned it on last night. Seems to me, I remember some posts on the long 700 thread that a lot of those who saw these issues with a new 700, didn't notice it as much, after the projector started to get some hours on it. Anyway, perhaps that is what I am experiencing at the moment. To put this in clear perspective, the VB, I am seeing is not so bad that you are constantly taken out enjoying what ever is on at the time. It's kind of just "vaguely" there.

Also need to add, the overall quailty of this unit, is quite good, even with the VB, I am currently seeing. Overall "look" of this unit is very pleasing, and I would say at this early stage, the ability to go to "BLACK", is about on a par with the SONY HS51. Unit does need some calibration however. Out of the box and with CINEMA 2 being used, and everything on default, the black level was way to high(or not low enough,semantics?). Black bars, above and below a 2:35 film, were not even remotely dark grey, let alone something near black. They were almost a bright grey!. Had to drop the brightness down to -21, and kick contrast up to 10. At those settings, looks pretty impressive at the moment, and with excellent shadow details.Blacks still a bit to bright, however I want to play around with the gamma settings first, to see what that does.

In closing, if I can get rid of the VB this will be one "killer projector" for not to much money. I suspect when 1080P chips finally hit with the D5 chip from EPSON(probably another year or so out),and with another generation of tweaking by PANASONIC to make these projectors more uniform (READ: VB, FREE !), we will have on our hands one, very, very, sweet projector for not to much money. Of course the NE PLUS ULTRA of 1080P projectors, will still probably come from DLP, however for significant coin, to say the least .

CHEERS, TC
MikeSRC's Avatar MikeSRC
01:56 PM Liked: 11
post #183 of 6453
10-05-2005 | Posts: 5,921
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I would still consider taking the projector back and checking out another one if I were you. I've looked at every possible recommended scene, color field etc. and have not seen any VB with mine (and I have seen it on other projectors). Doesn't mean there's not some there somewhere, but with the general consensus leaning that way, it might be just a few units that have it.

Black level is highly dependent on your DVD player and room conditions. For example, with an Oppo DVD player over HDMI and using Avia Pro, I get Brightness at +9 and Contrast at +2 for Cinema 2, only slightly different for Cinema 1.

Anyway, thanks for your comments. Maybe you could repost them on the main AE900 thread so we can keep eveything to one thread.
guitarman's Avatar guitarman
01:58 PM Liked: 16
post #184 of 6453
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MRJAZZZ View Post

Not a handshake issue, as three other units have no problem hand shaking. I too was some what surprised at the VB, as all the buzz on this new unit was around the fact that they have all but eliminated the VB. Perhaps my unit is just an anomoly. My older Z3 , and SONY HS51 have no such issues. Unit going back tomorrow, however just thought if any one new how to get into the service menu, perhaps I coud have a go at fixing that issue.

CHEERS, TC

How long is the HDMI cable? Try a short one to test. I've had all sorts of problems with projectors drawing power vs devices sending power, plus long cables also.
MikeSRC's Avatar MikeSRC
01:59 PM Liked: 11
post #185 of 6453
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Don't know for sure Darin, but the description of lamp life in HIGH mode with the DI on or off is the same as the AE700 (longer with DI on), so that leads me to believe they're still doing some modulation on HIGH with the 900.
Pultzar's Avatar Pultzar
02:10 PM Liked: 10
post #186 of 6453
10-05-2005 | Posts: 882
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeSRC View Post

Don't know for sure Darin, but the description of lamp life in HIGH mode with the DI on or off is the same as the AE700 (longer with DI on), so that leads me to believe they're still doing some modulation on HIGH with the 900.

I have tried turning the lamp onto HIGH before and noticed that the brightness didn't really change, so I turned it back off. Maybe it is simply because the lamp didn't modulate into the higher brightness mode. I'll have to look into this more, but using the high lamp mode with modulation would be nice when I use a filter to cut the black level.
MRJAZZZ's Avatar MRJAZZZ
02:36 PM Liked: 10
post #187 of 6453
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It;s not the hdmi cable, as I get hand shake with 3 other projectors,using same cable.

CHEERS, TC
PS will be getting a second unit to try this Friday,so should be interesting to see if the VB is gone on the new one.
inky blacks's Avatar inky blacks
02:53 PM Liked: 10
post #188 of 6453
10-05-2005 | Posts: 2,790
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmiyake View Post

Here is a review of the AE900U:

Projector Reviews Panasonic PT AE900U

WOW! In the screen shots I liked the Panasonic better than the more expensive DLP projector in every case. The DLP seemed to lose detail due to lack of color saturation. The difference reminded me of the recently posted comparison screen shots of 35mm film vs. DLP.

Looks like the Panasonic is a real bargain!

IB
dusk's Avatar dusk
02:53 PM Liked: 10
post #189 of 6453
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For those that have their AE900's, what does the aspect ratio button do? ie: does it vertically stretch a letterboxed 2.35:1 movie for the oh so popular CIH setups?
DreamCatcher's Avatar DreamCatcher
02:58 PM Liked: 12
post #190 of 6453
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I have noticed zero VB as well with my 900.
What were you watching when you noticed the VB?
Also does anybody here know how to get into the service menu?

dc
guitarman's Avatar guitarman
03:01 PM Liked: 16
post #191 of 6453
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That doesn't mean the new Pany does draw the signal as well. A good test is to run a short cable to be sure. It would be rare that the digital input on the PJ is down.

Gotta 6' cable? better test it incase the new one acts the same way.
MikeSRC's Avatar MikeSRC
03:04 PM Liked: 11
post #192 of 6453
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DreamCatcher View Post

Also does anybody here know how to get into the service menu?

dc

In the regular menu, go to "Option", then highlight "OSD". Push and hold the "Enter" button down for a few seconds until a new menu appears.
MRJAZZZ's Avatar MRJAZZZ
04:26 PM Liked: 10
post #193 of 6453
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MIKESRC

Does the 900 service menu have a flicker adjustment menu?

THANKS, TC
MikeSRC's Avatar MikeSRC
04:32 PM Liked: 11
post #194 of 6453
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MRJAZZZ View Post

MIKESRC

Does the 900 service menu have a flicker adjustment menu?

THANKS, TC

Yes, it does. If I recall correctly, the default setting is 15.
ac388's Avatar ac388
05:05 PM Liked: 10
post #195 of 6453
10-05-2005 | Posts: 1,250
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Can somebody give me an answer on this ??? Thanks.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ac388 View Post

I have a DVI/DVI cable inside the wall. But if I put DVI-to-HDMI adaptors on both ends, does it make the cable HDMI, n can I get 10-bit signal across ???



darinp2's Avatar darinp2
05:26 PM Liked: 76
post #196 of 6453
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ac388 View Post

I have a DVI/DVI cable inside the wall. But if I put DVI-to-HDMI adaptors on both ends, does it make the cable HDMI, n can I get 10-bit signal across ???


I can't give you a 100%, bet-my-life guarantee, but as far as getting the 10 bit YUV signal across and the source device not having to convert to 8 bit RGB, I believe adding those adapters would do the trick. I'm not sure how audio is passed over HDMI so you might not get that (and probably don't care), but I think you could avoid the 8-bit RGB conversion before the projector this way. The main reason I believe this is the case is because the kind of signals that can be sent are mostly related to the outputs and inputs of the respective devices. So, the projector should respond to the source letting it know that it can take the digital component type signals since it has an HDMI input and the source should be able to send those given that it has an HDMI output. I don't believe the physical differences between the HDMI and DVI cables have anything to do with YUV vs RGB limitations.

--Darin
MRJAZZZ's Avatar MRJAZZZ
05:43 PM Liked: 10
post #197 of 6453
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MIKESRC

DO you recall if you can set the color space on the 900 to match up with either a hi def source, and one for SD , and finally, can you set the remote to a different ir frequency, so one could have two of the 900's in the same room, however each one independently controlled?

THANKS, TC
NewTricks's Avatar NewTricks
06:04 PM Liked: 12
post #198 of 6453
10-05-2005 | Posts: 243
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My ae900u is in the mail. Please explain to me the significance/advantages/disadvantages of the cable types. I have no idea.

Component
S-video
HDMI
DVI

Also I read mention of cable length. My throw is over 20' so my cables must be over 25' through ceilings and walls. What problem does that present.

Thanks guys.
Oriphus's Avatar Oriphus
06:07 PM Liked: 10
post #199 of 6453
10-05-2005 | Posts: 459
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Quote:


In order for native 1280x720 to look correct over HDMI, you have to turn off an "OVERSCAN" option that can be found in the menus someplace.

Is this related to imputs from a HTPC only, or is this in general when using a DVD player with HDMI to the projector?

Also, back to screens. My requirements have now changed since im now embarking down the route of figuring out a way to mount two legs onto a Da-Lite Perm-Wall fixed screen. Im still not sure what screen surface to get.

Should i get the Cinema Vision 1.3, the High Contrast Cinema Vision 1.1, the Da-Mat 1.0 or HC Da-Mat, the Matte White 1.0 , the High Contrast Matte White 1.1, or the High Power screen with a gain of 2.8.

Generally my room will be fully darkened, but im currently using a cheap grey screen and the blacks arent amazing, but not rubbish either with my AE500. I want a really good picture with a really good contrast. The Projector will be table mounted, as will the Fixed screen lol so hopefully it will nearly be pointing directly at the centre.

Cheers
Chris
ike's Avatar ike
06:42 PM Liked: 10
post #200 of 6453
10-05-2005 | Posts: 162
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I had an AE700 for the past year and was very happy with it except for the Vertical Banding - or at least what I think is vertical banding. Maybe it's really FPN.

Before my AE700, I had one of the first generation 720p projectors in the Toshiba TLP-MT7. I loved that projector and no VP or FPN at all. But of course, contrast and black level were no where near what the AE700 offered.

This week, I went for the AE900 in hopes of eliminating the only flaw with the 700. But my experience has been like Mr. Jazz. I still see the faint banding in light scenes, especially in scenes that pan across the sky. Is this VB or FPN ?

For those of you that say you can't see any VB at all, I really wish I could watch side-by-side with you because it's hard to believe my luck of the draw got me 2 projectors with VB. Maybe I'm just more sensitive to it - I don't know.

Anyway, I did the flicker test and saw no noticable improvement. The AE900 also has another menu item down from the Flicker Adjustment called Panel. I played around with this for a while but didn't see any noticable difference.

All in all, the 900 does throw a noticably better overall picture than the 700. My wife even noticed. But VB still annoys me. I can return the projector but I can't put more than 1h hour on the bulb. Not sure what to do. I thought I've read that the Panasonic engineers specifically targeted this problem in the AE900 and even offered more options for tweaking. It would be nice if there was someone who saw vb/fpn on the 900 and was able to eliminate it.
ac388's Avatar ac388
06:47 PM Liked: 10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darinp2 View Post

I can't give you a 100%, bet-my-life guarantee, but as far as getting the 10 bit YUV signal across and the source device not having to convert to 8 bit RGB, I believe adding those adapters would do the trick. I'm not sure how audio is passed over HDMI so you might not get that (and probably don't care), but I think you could avoid the 8-bit RGB conversion before the projector this way. The main reason I believe this is the case is because the kind of signals that can be sent are mostly related to the outputs and inputs of the respective devices. So, the projector should respond to the source letting it know that it can take the digital component type signals since it has an HDMI input and the source should be able to send those given that it has an HDMI output. I don't believe the physical differences between the HDMI and DVI cables have anything to do with YUV vs RGB limitations.

--Darin

Thanks for your info. Then I don't have to pull my DVI/DVI cable inside the wall to replace it with HDMI/HDMI cable. I don't care about the audio signal thru HDMI, but worry about somebody in this thread said, 8-bit color tends to induce VB more than 10-bit color.
rwestley's Avatar rwestley
06:55 PM Liked: 70
post #202 of 6453
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New tricks, the best possible cable to use with this projector, I have found, is HDMI. You can also use a DVI to HDMI adaptor if the output on your cable box is DVI HDMI is pure digital and is great with an upscailing player or an HD transmission. Cable is also good and would be the number two choice if you don't have a digital connection. I would not use S Video the picture will not be as good with this projector. You can run about 25' max with HDMI.
JimmyR's Avatar JimmyR
07:08 PM Liked: 10
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"Cable is also good"
..............
I'm sure you mean "component" would be the number two choice.
ike's Avatar ike
08:59 PM Liked: 10
post #204 of 6453
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DreamCatcher View Post

I have noticed zero VB as well with my 900.
What were you watching when you noticed the VB?
Also does anybody here know how to get into the service menu?

dc

Look at any scene with a light blue sky. On both my AE700 and now my AE900, I see faint but noticable vertical streaks. Don't know if this is VB or FPN but it's annoying and looks worse if the camera pans when a light scene is displayed.

I was REALLY hoping that VB would be eliminated on the 900. I previously lived with a 720p Toshiba TLP-MT7 for 2 years and never saw even a hint of this vertical streaking.

I don't know if I should keep this unit or try something else. I'm really nervous about DLP because if I'm this sensitive to vertical streaking, I feel sure DLP is going to give me rainbow headaches.
chayto's Avatar chayto
10:20 PM Liked: 10
post #205 of 6453
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Interesting. I didn't know there was such a difference between HDMI and DVI (10 bits YUV vs 8 bits RGB)
How would you do with an HTPC to get the better format ? Are there display cards that let you output a 10 bits YUV signal from the DVI output ?
noah katz's Avatar noah katz
10:49 PM Liked: 183
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"I'm this sensitive to vertical streaking, I feel sure DLP is going to give me rainbow headaches. "

Completely unrelated to each other.
DanLW's Avatar DanLW
11:17 PM Liked: 29
post #207 of 6453
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ike View Post

I'm really nervous about DLP because if I'm this sensitive to vertical streaking, I feel sure DLP is going to give me rainbow headaches.

As NoahKatz said, the problems are two completely different things. VB is a difference in color or shading. Rainbows is a problem with people who don't have as good persistence of vision as most other people.

I have had literally dozens of people over to watch movies on my DL500 DreamVision, a first generation DLP projector with a 1X color wheel. Nobody ever complained about getting headaches, nor did anybody mention they saw rainbows.

I can see rainbows, but only if I am looking for them on purpose. I've never gotten a headache watching my projector, even after an entire day of viewing all three extended editions of Lord of the Rings.

The thing is, you know about the problem, and it seems you've worked yourself up over it. So there could be a placebo effect headache. And I do believe that a lot, not all, but a lot of DLP rainbow or headache complaints are placebo effects from people who are such videophiles that they know absolutely everything, good and bad, about all the technologies, and they psych themselves into having problems. If you are watching something with the knowledge that the display might give you a headache, and you are constantly asking yourself "Am I getting a headache?" then I would bet that you would get a headache - because you psyched yourself into it.

If you're really truly worried about it, go to a HT store and watch a DLP projector for a couple hours. I suppose you could even simply watch a DLP rear projection unit and get the same result. And don't be scrutinizing the display. Just enjoy whatever material is being presented. If you're asking yourself "do I see rainbows? Am I getting a headache?" then you will probably have problems. If you get absorbed into watching and enjoying the material, you probably won't notice any adverse reactions other than the slight blue glow your skin will get from all the gamma radiation present in DLP projection systems.
stephenvv's Avatar stephenvv
01:32 AM Liked: 10
post #208 of 6453
10-06-2005 | Posts: 45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DreamCatcher View Post

So far I prefer Cinema2 to Cinema1 for it's slightly brighter image, not much but just enough. Also not much of a difference between low lamp and high lamp, so I use low.
Compared to the 700, I see the 900 as a 700 done right!

dc

I prefer Cinema2 as well - blues seem more at accurate levels and Cinema1 is a little red compared to my calibrated CRT.
stephenvv's Avatar stephenvv
01:38 AM Liked: 10
post #209 of 6453
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ike View Post

Look at any scene with a light blue sky. On both my AE700 and now my AE900, I see faint but noticable vertical streaks. Don't know if this is VB or FPN but it's annoying and looks worse if the camera pans when a light scene is displayed.

I just watched a bunch of HD Clips via VGA, both 720 and 1080p including Microsoft demos with lots of light blue backgrounds and skies and saw nothing of the sort. Can someone photograph VB on AE700 or AE900 so I can look for it?

HD stuff looked amazing - only artifacts I saw were in the source (confirmed as I was running on my 22" NEC CRT computer monitor at the same time. I could see the film grain on IMAX clips. Impressive.

In fact, during a couple of very challenging clips, I have to say the AE900 did better than the CRT for patterns of very fine lines. CRT still looked better for very deep blacks, but I'm running right now on Insta-Theater with high gain.
Oriphus's Avatar Oriphus
02:30 AM Liked: 10
post #210 of 6453
10-06-2005 | Posts: 459
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[quote]people who don't have as good persistence of vision as most other people

If you are watching something with the knowledge that the display might give you a headache, and you are constantly asking yourself "Am I getting a headache?" then I would bet that you would get a headache - because you psyched yourself into it.
[quote]

Isnt it more to do with the opposite - ie: people with a higher persistance (for search of a better word) of vision are more likely to see Rainbow...

Also, i think you're way off the mark with thinking that people who go out thinking they may get a sore head are from watching a DLP will get one. I went with 3 people to view a Sim2 DLP projector with a 6 segment 5x colour wheel. One had epilepsy and the other two didnt. I didnt mention anything to them about the problems with DLP. My girlfriend with Epilepsy immediately got a very sore head which lasted a good few hours and was unable to continue watching. One of the others complained that it made their eyes sore and the middle of their head. Myself (who was looking for Rainbow, VB and eye strain) felt nothing whatsoever, and neither did the other person who who new nothing about DLP and the potential problems.

Chris
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