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post #91 of 2915 Old 12-20-2005, 07:46 PM
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I am bring this thread back. Here is something new from Korea:

http://www.aving.net/newproduct/defa...&sp_except=eng

http://image.aving.net/img/2005/12/1..._optoma_03.jpg
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post #92 of 2915 Old 12-21-2005, 06:26 PM
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...Via the CES Optoma page link. I asked about pricing and availability. This was the response I got:

"Geoff:

The product will be available in February. We will announce pricing
and
specifications at CES.

Thank you.

Best regards,

Ralph Merrem"

Does anybody out there have any more info? Price? Thanks.

Geoff
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post #93 of 2915 Old 12-22-2005, 06:36 AM
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Here I am getting excited about this PJ since it is time to upgrade my Z2 and *bam* no lens shift. I just don't understand why the "low cost" DLPs are omitting this feature since it is not expensive to implement. Even if they charged an extra $100 for the PJ, it would be worth it and more than cover the implementation costs.

I guess it is back to Cinema 550, Z4, or AE 900 land. Too bad the Cinema 800 is so expensive, it would be perfect!
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post #94 of 2915 Old 12-22-2005, 08:18 AM
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Lens shift would probably be more like 500$...
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post #95 of 2915 Old 12-22-2005, 08:42 AM
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I'm talking covering implementation costs, not mark up anbjornk.
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post #96 of 2915 Old 12-22-2005, 02:46 PM
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I received an e-mail from Ralph about one month ago stating the H72 would begin shipping in January. Now it's February? I wonder what prompted the delayed shipping date.
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post #97 of 2915 Old 12-22-2005, 03:28 PM
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I'll request again. maybe this time it'll take since we seem to be getting close...
Can I have a Sticky Please?
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post #98 of 2915 Old 12-29-2005, 07:34 AM
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Optoma Themescene HD72
Due for launch first thing in 2006, the ThemeScene HD72 represents Optoma's second large push in the 720p DLP market. Not so long ago, the H77 (upgraded to H78, then ultimately becoming the H79!) shook home cinema foundations when it was launched at a price of £4,000, several thousand pounds cheaper than it's closest competitor. The H79 has since gone from strength to strength, slaying many giants on the way. But now it has a baby brother, the HD72.

The H72 is based on Texas Instruments new 1280 x 768 DLP chipset utilising DC2 technology. As with most projectors being shipped with this new budget DLP chip, the H72 boasts BrilliantColour technology but rather than use the partnering DDP3020 chip for video processing Optoma have gone with a far more exciting Faroudja based approach! The DCDi directional deinterlacing should give quite a dynamic image from video sources such as satellite television, which combined with the H72s high brightness is likely to make this a very, very popular projector.

Optoma's Zero Dead Pixels Policy on Themescene HD72


Optoma will gaurantee you a pixel-defect free projector, or a brand new replacement unit!

Optoma Themescene H72 Preliminary Specification
- 1300 ANSI Lumens
- 1280 x 768 resolution 16:10 aspect ratio w/ 16:9 native mode
- 3000 Hour lamp life
- 1.6-1.9:1 Throw
- 7-segment RGBRGBW colour wheel
- 3000:1 Contrast Ratio
- DVI-I (RGB Scart or VGA via adaptor), HDMI, Component Video 3xRCA (also available into DVI-I socket via adaptor), S-Video and Composite Video Inputs


Optoma Themescene H72 Warranty Information
- 3 Year, on-site, loan-exchange Warranty Included

ALSO;

Optoma has introduced the H72, a 16:9 projector featuring native 720p resolution, WXGA (1280x768) compressed resolution, a 4,000:1 contrast ratio, and 1,300 lumens of brightness. The H72 incorporates Texas Instruments' DLP technology and DarkChip2 DMD chipset. The projector offers RS232 connectivity as well as DVI-I with HDCP, BNC, component, composite, and S-video inputs/outputs. Price: $1,999. Availability: second quarter of 2006. For more information, see Optoma at CES booth 20444, or contact the company at 888-942-2929 or at www.optomausa.com

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post #99 of 2915 Old 12-29-2005, 04:48 PM
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1.6 -1.9 moderately long throw lens combined with a 32% image offset and no lens shift. Damn!!!
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post #100 of 2915 Old 12-29-2005, 06:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bubbawilly View Post

1.6 -1.9 moderately long throw lens combined with a 32% image offset and no lens shift. Damn!!!

ouch. dumb, dumb, dumb.

ruled out for purchase.

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post #101 of 2915 Old 12-29-2005, 07:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uther View Post

I just don't understand why the "low cost" DLPs are omitting this feature since it is not expensive to implement. Even if they charged an extra $100 for the PJ, it would be worth it and more than cover the implementation costs.

unlike LCDs it IS difficult (costly) to implement lens shift in single chip DLP. Because of the way light reflects instead of passthrough. LCDs get the lens shift kind of free, not DLP.

The cheapest DLP that has lens shift is the MetaVision line. Not so popular in the US market (under diff name).
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post #102 of 2915 Old 12-29-2005, 09:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bubbawilly View Post

1.6 -1.9 moderately long throw lens combined with a 32% image offset and no lens shift. Damn!!!

I don't understand why H72(and HC3000 too) choose such big offset. If you have high ceiling and small offset, you can still use extension tube or something to lower the projector; but if you have low ceiling and big offset, I don't know if there's anyway to do ceiling mount.
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post #103 of 2915 Old 12-29-2005, 10:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by c722 View Post

unlike LCDs it IS difficult (costly) to implement lens shift in single chip DLP. Because of the way light reflects instead of passthrough. LCDs get the lens shift kind of free, not DLP.

The cheapest DLP that has lens shift is the MetaVision line. Not so popular in the US market (under diff name).


I dont think this is true, the LGAN110 is in the same price range with similar specs and has lens shift
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post #104 of 2915 Old 12-30-2005, 08:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlienArchbishop View Post

I dont think this is true, the LGAN110 is in the same price range with similar specs and has lens shift

It isn't entirely true. Sure, there would be an initial expense for engineering the light path architecture to allow for lens shift, but after that initial investment, the expense of a shiftable lens system would cost no more than on comparable LCD products. The BenQ PE7700 and Toshiba MT700 clone are prime examples of DLP machines with zero offset that would be ready to receive a shiftable lens system. The 7700 is now selling for less than the Panasonic 900. Granted, it doesn't have lens shift like the 900, but designing the unit with a shiftable lens in place of the current fixed lens wouldn't make for a significant cost difference, if at all.

It's all a matter of foresight and economics. My suspicion is that the H72 will simply occupy the same general physical architecture of the H57 (economics), instead of being redesigned to include a lens shift feature (lack of foresight). Note that when Panasonic implemented physical lens shift in the 700, the resulting architecture was different than the preceding 500 and 300 models, yet the cost remained the same. They obviously had the foresight to recognize the need for, and consequently the perceived value of, lens shift by the consumer. As a result, the 700 sold more than any other projector model during its lifecycle. Potentially, Optoma could have achieved similar results with the H72 if it had a little more foresight. The economics would have worked out favorably in the long run, but too many big companies can't look past the next quarter.

It's really too bad that Optoma hasn't recognized the fairly restrictive placement options on all but their most expensive models. Their PQ is exceptional across their entire line, but many potential buyers in the <$3500 category were forced to buy LCD because of placement flexibility and little else. Sadly, the H72 will not improve upon their options.
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post #105 of 2915 Old 12-30-2005, 12:45 PM
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"Sure, there would be an initial expense for engineering the light path architecture to allow for lens shift, but after that initial investment, the expense of a shiftable lens system would cost no more than on comparable LCD products. "

What do you base this statement on? The off-axis nature of the DLP optical path makes it inherently more difficult.

That said, somehow NEC manges to do it in the inexpensive 410 and 510.

Noah
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post #106 of 2915 Old 12-30-2005, 01:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

"Sure, there would be an initial expense for engineering the light path architecture to allow for lens shift, but after that initial investment, the expense of a shiftable lens system would cost no more than on comparable LCD products. "

What do you base this statement on? The off-axis nature of the DLP optical path makes it inherently more difficult.

That said, somehow NEC manges to do it in the inexpensive 410 and 510.

You answered your own question. The resultant image from any digital projection source doesn't have to be off-axis. Not with a little engineering.

The two DLP projectors that I mentioned were designed with zero offset, and the 2 that you mention added lens shift to a zero offset design. None of these projectors are expensive relative to their competition. How difficult can it be?
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post #107 of 2915 Old 01-01-2006, 08:06 AM
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I hate to show my ignorance...but...I'm good at it, so...here goes Can someone please explain how this new chip works with 4:3 material? I have a 100" fixed 4:3 screen. We view a lot of 4:3 material and I've been hesitant to replace the screen as of yet. With the "passing" of the HT1100, I had decided to go with a 720P 16:9(ae900, z4,) and just "zoom out" to fill the 4:3 screen. Does this new chip allow for a full 4:3 image (like h1100), or just an improved 4:3 image INSIDE the 16:9 frame? Please excuse the dumb questions. I'm learning a lot here, but have a looooong way to go
Thanks

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post #108 of 2915 Old 01-04-2006, 12:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bubbawilly View Post

It isn't entirely true. Sure, there would be an initial expense for engineering the light path architecture to allow for lens shift, but after that initial investment, the expense of a shiftable lens system would cost no more than on comparable LCD products. The BenQ PE7700 and Toshiba MT700 clone are prime examples of DLP machines with zero offset that would be ready to receive a shiftable lens system. The 7700 is now selling for less than the Panasonic 900. Granted, it doesn't have lens shift like the 900, but designing the unit with a shiftable lens in place of the current fixed lens wouldn't make for a significant cost difference, if at all.

It's all a matter of foresight and economics. My suspicion is that the H72 will simply occupy the same general physical architecture of the H57 (economics), instead of being redesigned to include a lens shift feature (lack of foresight). Note that when Panasonic implemented physical lens shift in the 700, the resulting architecture was different than the preceding 500 and 300 models, yet the cost remained the same. They obviously had the foresight to recognize the need for, and consequently the perceived value of, lens shift by the consumer. As a result, the 700 sold more than any other projector model during its lifecycle. Potentially, Optoma could have achieved similar results with the H72 if it had a little more foresight. The economics would have worked out favorably in the long run, but too many big companies can't look past the next quarter.

It's really too bad that Optoma hasn't recognized the fairly restrictive placement options on all but their most expensive models. Their PQ is exceptional across their entire line, but many potential buyers in the <$3500 category were forced to buy LCD because of placement flexibility and little else. Sadly, the H72 will not improve upon their options.

Agree!! No lens shift is a deal stopper for me and many other cases...
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post #109 of 2915 Old 01-04-2006, 12:52 PM
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only $1999.00 MSRP for an 16:9 HD DLP projector with 4000:1 contrast . So expect other manufacturers to follow suit, and real soon. With competition, you're looking at $1500 - $1600 on the open market.

And really, unless you're an optical engineer and/or work in electronics manufacturing, saying that adding lens shift to a projector design is an easy thing to do or that it can be done at a low cost is something where you really don't know what you're talking about. I've seen a manufacturer balk at putting $15 extra into a product (which would have added a significant increase in the product's usability) because it would end up adding $250 to the MSRP and take it out of its targeted price.

I think seeing an under $2k DLP with this resolution, this brightness, this contrast and their no dead pixel warranty is almost an unbelievable bargain when you look back to just one year ago. We're really starting to get spoiled by our excess of technological advancement and expectations for incremental jumps in technology at half of the price of the technology being replaced. I guess that next CES there'll be some who jump in on this forum and complain that the newest HD DLP projector for under $1000 doesn't have lens shift. But who knows? Maybe they will.

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post #110 of 2915 Old 01-04-2006, 06:03 PM
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Well if you expect lens shift on this Optoma I think you will be sorely disappointed!

Word is that Optoma is PULLING lens shift off the new top line H80 unit!

So expecting it on the bottom of the line is an exercise in futility...

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post #111 of 2915 Old 01-05-2006, 03:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Taken from a TI press release:

Quote:



Optoma's new high-performance, high-definition HD72 projectors are being announced at CES with an estimated street price of under $2,000. The HD72 projector offers 5000:1 contrast ratio, 1300 lumens and incorporates BrilliantColor color processing technology with a 7-segment color wheel to provide great color saturation.

The contrast spec is now 5,000:1. Maybe by the time the projector reaches the stores it'll have reached 100,000:1.

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post #112 of 2915 Old 01-05-2006, 01:00 PM
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Anybody seen any specs on the fan noise? That is what ruled out the Mits for me... can't wait for a PQ comparison between the H72 and IN76....
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post #113 of 2915 Old 01-05-2006, 02:55 PM
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Just talked to ProjectorPeople...they confirmed that the Optoma HD72 is $3999 MSRP...not the $2000 that was reported in the TI news release. So $3000 for HC3000 or IN76 seems more reasonable. Who are we kidding...these new generation price points are locked now (like new computers)...we will be riding $3000-$3500 for each new generation it seems. Sony bringing the HS-51A in at the HS-51 price ($3500) is another good example of that price point. They are going to let Panny, Sanyo, et.al. crowd fight it out for $2000 level which is paramount to grey market products.

Bring on 4K resolution, let's call it Super Duper Highest Definition (SDHD) the first media will be Violet Ray Disc (VRD). I am starting a VRD Forum in my garage(Toshiba and Sony need not apply)
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post #114 of 2915 Old 01-05-2006, 02:57 PM
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Maybe we should rename this Forum <$2000...I wonder if the projectors will follow.

Bring on 4K resolution, let's call it Super Duper Highest Definition (SDHD) the first media will be Violet Ray Disc (VRD). I am starting a VRD Forum in my garage(Toshiba and Sony need not apply)
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post #115 of 2915 Old 01-05-2006, 05:07 PM
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Seems strange that the TI press release says they would street under 2K, that's a huge gap between street and MSRP.
I can't find any press release from CES 2006, isn't that where this projector was supposed to be announced? Anyone have a link?
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post #116 of 2915 Old 01-06-2006, 02:28 AM
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1300 lumens? Jason just said it was not as bright as the H7xs.
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post #117 of 2915 Old 01-06-2006, 07:47 AM
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December 2005 Pro AV magazine has a sampling of new products being shown at CES and shows the Optoma H72 with, and I quote: "Price: $1999."

Those are my principles. If you don't like them I have others.
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post #118 of 2915 Old 01-06-2006, 10:36 AM
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If Mits HC3000 can go below 2k with rebate then Optoma should definitely go below 2k. As a Mits owner I can tell you that noise is not a problem with this projector. Then again, I am coming from a older and noisier Infocus model.
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post #119 of 2915 Old 01-06-2006, 11:16 PM
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1300 lumens is what is says on the brochure I picked up from Optoma.

I was told at the Optoma Booth... February relase $2,999 MSRP. Which is identical to the MSRP for the IN76.

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post #120 of 2915 Old 01-07-2006, 07:25 AM
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Thanks...HiHoStevo...this is the confirmation I have been looking for. I knew we should have made this the <$2000 forum...

Looks like we have a fight on our hands for 720p DLP at $3000 (Mits. HC3000, Optoma HD72, and Infocus H76)...just like the 720p LCD (D5 panels) at $2000.

Bring on 4K resolution, let's call it Super Duper Highest Definition (SDHD) the first media will be Violet Ray Disc (VRD). I am starting a VRD Forum in my garage(Toshiba and Sony need not apply)
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