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post #181 of 1081 Old 12-07-2005, 02:31 AM
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Thank you Rone for your wonderful work.
Just a simple question: Do u use 1280*720p at 50Hz or 60Hz with your HTPC?
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post #182 of 1081 Old 12-07-2005, 04:09 AM - Thread Starter
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60hz - I have no issues with Judder with either PAL or NTSC based disc content.

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post #183 of 1081 Old 12-07-2005, 04:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ROne View Post

60hz - I have no issues with Judder with either PAL or NTSC based disc content.

Is it not better to use for PAL 50hz (2*fps)?
have you noted 60hz is better than 50hz for PAL DVDs?
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post #184 of 1081 Old 12-07-2005, 06:08 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by capitano View Post

Is it not better to use for PAL 50hz (2*fps)?
have you noted 60hz is better than 50hz for PAL DVDs?

That's debatable - on my set up there is no difference - so 720p60 makes sense as a standard rez for everything.

With TT I've never been convinced that mating displays to freq's of the frame rate multiple always gives the best results. There was huge debate about this at some point ... but I know what I've seen here.

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post #185 of 1081 Old 12-07-2005, 08:51 AM
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Hey ROne,

How are those Service Menu Iris tweaks coming? Do you have any more insight or recommendations on the settings? I will be finishing up my install this weekend and would love to hear what your latest digging has uncovered.
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post #186 of 1081 Old 12-07-2005, 09:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Yeah - I can give you service menu tweaks to improve the Iris within the more aggresive settings - this comprises of slowing the iris's response down (so that it has more time to average out over scenes) and increasing the threshold of fully closed iris.

That said - it's so difficult to get a decent D65 in POWERFUL that it all becomes a bit of a on/off contrast chase - which ultimately looks not a huge amount better than the LIVING settings - as the ANSI contrast is still the same or close.

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post #187 of 1081 Old 12-07-2005, 09:36 AM - Thread Starter
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Here you go: I got the service manual PDF courtesy of someone on here and made the following changes (which you must make in the POWERFUL, VIVID or DYNAMIC - as it applies to all three).


GROUP 105 on the service menu (LAMP IRIS)


Item 4: Lamp Iris POINT C: +4 (default) 0-255 (range)

reduce to 0: this effectively lifts the AUTO LAMP IRIS's CLOSED limit.


Item 10: LAMP IRIS ave time range: +4 (default) 0-8 (range)

8 being the slowest, 0 being the fastest - decrease of iris-reaction speed setting slowing it down so that it is more gradual in scenes and much less noticeable

I set it on 8, though you can experiment with these numbers as they are real-time settings, do be aware though that the on-screen menu influences iris while you are adjusting.


Normal service menu warnings apply.

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post #188 of 1081 Old 12-07-2005, 01:19 PM
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Thanks ROne for providing us your tweaks. Definite improvement over the Sanyo supplied settings. Your settings with a brand new bulb give a plasma like punch to the image. Fantastic! :-)

- JP in TOronto
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post #189 of 1081 Old 12-07-2005, 04:36 PM
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Hi all -

I recently purchased this projector and am very happy with it so far (I previously had a Sony VPL-HS2 for a few years). I've never messed around with the image much on my televisions (especially color), but I've been trying to learn about this the last few days by reading this forum and other sites, and I just ordered the AVIA DVD. I currently have the projector plugged into my 3 year old Toshiba progressive scan DVD player using component video. I've tried ROne's settings (with eyeball adjustments to brightness, contrast, and saturation), and that looks very good. Scenes with a lot of brown look too orange to me, and I unsuccessfully tried using the color managment tool to fix this.

I've tried fiddling with some of the color controls, but for many I'm not confident that I understand what the adjustment means. I don't expect to arrive at the best picture by messing around in this fashion, but I'd still like to understand the interpretation of these controls.

1) What property of the color are you changing with the RGB individual adjustments? Is it saturation (I'm assuming the Saturation control adjusts the three colors uniformly)?

2) Are the RGB offset and gain functions analagous to brightness and contrast functions, except for the individual colors? So, the offset adjusts the baseline dark end of the color and the gain determines the high end?

3) In the Color Management menu, is "Level" the same as saturation and "Phase" the same as hue?

Sorry if those are dumb questions - I'm still trying to digest the vocabulary and concepts surrounding color. If it's not possible to easily answer those questions, if someone could direct me to a resource that would explain these well, I would be very appreciative.

Thanks to all the people who share their thoughts here - this site is a very valuable resource, though there is an enormous volume of data to sift through.
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post #190 of 1081 Old 12-07-2005, 09:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daosteen View Post

3) In the Color Management menu, is "Level" the same as saturation and "Phase" the same as hue?

I'm wondering the very same thing. Asked that earlier and am still hoping for some clarification.
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post #191 of 1081 Old 12-08-2005, 12:29 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daosteen View Post

Hi all -



I've tried fiddling with some of the color controls, but for many I'm not confident that I understand what the adjustment means. I don't expect to arrive at the best picture by messing around in this fashion, but I'd still like to understand the interpretation of these controls.

1) What property of the color are you changing with the RGB individual adjustments? Is it saturation (I'm assuming the Saturation control adjusts the three colors uniformly)?

2) Are the RGB offset and gain functions analagous to brightness and contrast functions, except for the individual colors? So, the offset adjusts the baseline dark end of the color and the gain determines the high end?

3) In the Color Management menu, is "Level" the same as saturation and "Phase" the same as hue?

Sorry if those are dumb questions - I'm still trying to digest the vocabulary and concepts surrounding color. If it's not possible to easily answer those questions, if someone could direct me to a resource that would explain these well, I would be very appreciative.

Thanks to all the people who share their thoughts here - this site is a very valuable resource, though there is an enormous volume of data to sift through.

Firstly - how are you sourcing your Z4?

My D65 settings are based around a specific set up, there is a chance that if one element differes then adjusting the brightness or contrast to suit will shift the greyscale range and white will become too yellow or too red near the top end.

1) The RGB individual adjustmenst effect the color of White not saturation.

2) Offset = brightness of individual RGB approx 40% IRE based chart

Gain= contrast of individual RGB approx 70% IRE based chart

There is interaction between the two.

I am struggling to explain the colour management settings accurately as Sanyos documentation is very poor.

But I read Level as the intensity of the colour, phase I would imagine is HUE.

With colour management you may have to find several scenes to make adjustments that you are happy with.

Bear in mind that I've only needed to make colour management adjustments to LIVING - not CREATIVE CiNEMA.

Hope this helps.

AE2000here.


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post #192 of 1081 Old 12-10-2005, 01:25 PM
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Was doing some browsing on fLeaBay and found a service manual for sale if anyone is interested. Item number is 8735708063 .

~Dave

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post #193 of 1081 Old 12-10-2005, 05:37 PM
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How do you get to the service section of the z4?

pressing menu + hdmi then up and down, doesnt seem to work for me,

am i doing it correctly?

thanks

*EDIT* never mind, i realized that you have to push menu and INPUT on the actual machine, not on the remote to get it going.

and for those of you who start fiddling with the settings, here's how it works

Pressing OK takes you to the next group # (you have to cycle back to get to one if you miss it)

Pressing up and down adjusts which data set within that group you are adjusting

Pressing left and right, adjusts the value of the data set.

Pressing power exits service mode

Don't forget to write down your values before tweaking, lol i accidently changed a few settings by accident and forgot the default values.

is there a way to get the service menu defaults back? (does a menu reset, reset the service menu settings?)

everything looks ok still, hopefully i didnt muck anything up to much
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post #194 of 1081 Old 12-11-2005, 03:03 AM
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I am finding color mgt a good tool to get better flesh tones, esp getting too much red shading out when using the Living mode, my favorite starting base. I am much more satisfied since using this tool. I find that I need to correct about three different shades in the flesh tones to get it looking natural. at least to me. I did a slight correction, mostly phase, to a light, medium, and then dark shadow flesh tone to get the reds lowered to where I wanted them. What is frustrating to me is each program or source seems to have been produced with a slightly different idea of what flesh tones should look like. I set it up for one show and it is great, then another show, say Miami CSI which seems to be shot using a yellow filter, and they are off enough to bug me a bit. Then the next show or movie is just fine again. Just an observation I thought I would share. Color management is a nice addition for Sanyo, but I also wish the manual explained better how to use it.
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post #195 of 1081 Old 12-11-2005, 08:55 AM
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I have a few questions.

(1) Are there any tips on getting better shadow detail? I am using ROne's Living and Cretive Cinema, and CKL's Creative Cinema settings and one of my own. It's not a problem with any live sporting event but many movies lose shadow detail. ( I have only been able to use Comcast HD so far with component connection as I am waiting for my hdmi cable.)

To increase shadow detail, I have (a) put Gamma to +1, (b) opened lens iris to 0, and (c) increased Brightness, or a combination of these. Is there anything else?

(2) I do not notice change when going through all of the Lamp modes. Going from Full to Eco and back again shows little increase/decrease. I expected major dimming or brightening but it's not there for me. Is this the same for others?

Thanks.

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post #196 of 1081 Old 12-11-2005, 09:19 AM
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I've tried rsone's settings, and that picture creates a very dim image for me for some reason, (im projecting onto a 106" screen) so that may be why, but its way to dim for my likeing. So far. Living with the avia tweaks are the best IMO so far. but im still tweaking.

also, is true that the same size image whether its projected at a short throw with a large zoom, is the same brightness as a long throw with high zoom?
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post #197 of 1081 Old 12-11-2005, 07:22 PM
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Pinpoint

I find the Living a much better base for tweaking. You may not have as much light control as Rone which would influence brightness. I seem to recall a post where a fellow measured the light output and concluded using a shorter throw for the same screen size was indeed brighter which surprised some folks. I hope I am remembering this right. If anyone else remember it different or can find the thread please let us know.
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post #198 of 1081 Old 12-12-2005, 01:17 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shelly View Post

I have a few questions.

(1) Are there any tips on getting better shadow detail? I am using ROne's Living and Cretive Cinema, and CKL's Creative Cinema settings and one of my own. It's not a problem with any live sporting event but many movies lose shadow detail. ( I have only been able to use Comcast HD so far with component connection as I am waiting for my hdmi cable.)

To increase shadow detail, I have (a) put Gamma to +1, (b) opened lens iris to 0, and (c) increased Brightness, or a combination of these. Is there anything else?

(2) I do not notice change when going through all of the Lamp modes. Going from Full to Eco and back again shows little increase/decrease. I expected major dimming or brightening but it's not there for me. Is this the same for others?

Thanks.

Shelly


Altering lamp modes does not directly effect shadow detail as such (though obviously it does effect light spill and therefore ansi-contrast).

Bear in mind (something that needs to be re-enforced constantly) - my settings are based around HDMI L2 VMR RADEON, it's very likely that component is at a different set of values on the Z4.

I really need to get my DVD player back to test this ... I will see what I can do tonight.

AE2000here.


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post #199 of 1081 Old 12-12-2005, 01:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PiNPOiNT View Post

I've tried rsone's settings, and that picture creates a very dim image for me for some reason, (im projecting onto a 106" screen) so that may be why, but its way to dim for my likeing. So far. Living with the avia tweaks are the best IMO so far. but im still tweaking.

also, is true that the same size image whether its projected at a short throw with a large zoom, is the same brightness as a long throw with high zoom?

You could just start with some of the settings listed and open the iris more - my screen is only 80" so you are absorbing a lot more light than me.

The trouble is opening the iris - produces a different greyscale unfortunately.

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post #200 of 1081 Old 12-12-2005, 08:12 AM
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I tried moving the projector about 6 feet closer to the screen (now sitting at about 15" instead of 21) and tried switching back to RSone's settings, and now it actually bright enough to watch, i watched the first part of gladiator, with my settings, then switched to rsone's and watched it again. I see a huge difference in the detail and black levels (dunno exactly what im seeing but it looks better then my settings)

The only issue now for me, is that the whole picture seems to have a slight tinge of blue to it, and the reds look a bit on the orange side. What is the best way to tweak these? Which blues and reds do i adjust ? (offsett/gain etc...?) or should i use the colour management tool?

thanks for your help guys
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post #201 of 1081 Old 12-12-2005, 08:25 AM - Thread Starter
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Blue hmmm.

Right - too much red in the picture is likely to be colour management, see my earlier post on the subject and how to tweak it out.

Tinge of blue - don't know about that - my settings are D65 - you could always step back the "B" from the main adjustment menu a couple of points.

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post #202 of 1081 Old 12-12-2005, 08:29 AM - Thread Starter
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PS. For the record I my projector is 13Ft back, throwing a 80" wide screen.

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post #203 of 1081 Old 12-12-2005, 08:46 AM
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Thanks RSone, ill try it out tonight when i get home,
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post #204 of 1081 Old 12-12-2005, 08:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ROne View Post

Altering lamp modes does not directly effect shadow detail as such (though obviously it does effect light spill and therefore ansi-contrast).

But should there be a noticeable increase/decrease in how bright the image is?

I notice very very subtle changes (if at all) when toggling through the lamp modes so I keep it on Eco to prolong lamp life, supposedly.

Shelly

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Had 6 dishes, now none.
Back to Comcast. Farewell Comcast, now back to Dish 120+HD. Farewell Dish.

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post #205 of 1081 Old 12-12-2005, 09:46 AM
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ROne, you're using the Spyder2Pro for calibrations correct? Thinking about ordering one. It would be good to get a different perspective since I have a 147" diagonal 2.35:1 screen(~116" 16:9 equivalent).
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post #206 of 1081 Old 12-12-2005, 10:22 AM
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Before buying a Sanyo I'd read a little more about their service and support:

Just do a search for Sanyo warranty on this forum....
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post #207 of 1081 Old 12-12-2005, 10:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by projectorjustice View Post

Before buying a Sanyo I'd read a little more about their service and support:

Just do a search for Sanyo warranty on this forum....

This is a tweak thread for current Z4 owners. Please stay on topic.

We are aware of warranty issues of some.

Shelly

Farewell Voom. Farewell Directv. Farewell Bell Express Vu. Farewell Dish.
Had 6 dishes, now none.
Back to Comcast. Farewell Comcast, now back to Dish 120+HD. Farewell Dish.

Returned to Comcast 06/2012.

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post #208 of 1081 Old 12-12-2005, 10:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by projectorjustice View Post

Before buying a Sanyo I'd read a little more about their service and support:

Just do a search for Sanyo warranty on this forum....

We really don't need your kind of riffraff here. Like Shelly said, this is the Z4 TWEAK thread, where 99% of all posters and viewers have already purchased a Z4. So your obvious and blatent attempts to deter folks from buying a Z4 will only fall on deaf ears, and everyone reading through the thread shouldn't have to weed through meaningless posts like yours and this one too. They want to discuss how to get the best performance out of their projectors. So please do us a favor, either contribute something contructive to the thread, or get lost. If I'm off base here then I relent, but I think it's obvious what your motives are.

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post #209 of 1081 Old 12-12-2005, 11:17 AM
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Researching Sanyo warranty has a lot to do with this thread.

Tweaking from the service menu may void your warranty.
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post #210 of 1081 Old 12-12-2005, 11:31 AM
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Quote:
Researching Sanyo warranty has a lot to do with this thread.

Tweaking from the service menu may void your warranty.

Yes, but this is the tweak thread. I think that everyone here is aware that tweaking their projector may void warranties in certain cases. If not, they are aware now.

Let's get back on topic.

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