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post #91 of 4269 Old 01-05-2006, 11:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alimentall View Post

Yes, but I mean *off* the forum in the real world.

My suspicion is that we in the forum spend more on HT than folks off the forum as a general class. If we weren't price conscious we would be buying in the >3500 MSRP category.

Quote:


Well, sure, but the price of a 720 DLP just went from about $5000 retail to $3000 retail. $2000 drop, but everyone seems to be convinced that it needs to drop $500 before it even comes out? Not understanding it.

Anyway, I'm just saying that this place gets amazingly negative, as though somehow we're "owed" more or something. I just can't find anything negative to say about a $3000 720 DLP 3000:1 contrast projector with a 20dB noise level That exceeds 100% of my expectations. But I'm a cup half full guy.

I don't think folks are being negative. It really is great news. The observation is that HC3000 is a great projector at a great price that's just a bit too expensive for many by about $500.

Saying another offering in the same price range leaves these consumers equally out of luck isn't being negative, its being wistful. For them the cup isn't half full or half empty. Its just empty. Or full of 480p.

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post #92 of 4269 Old 01-05-2006, 12:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nigel_ht View Post

I don't think folks are being negative. It really is great news. The observation is that HC3000 is a great projector at a great price that's just a bit too expensive for many by about $500.

It's a great projector at a great price for those with 9' ceilings or above. Mits is missing out on a big part of the market by their restrictive offset. Hopefully IF will remedy this, and if it's <$2400 even better.


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post #93 of 4269 Old 01-05-2006, 01:32 PM
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can someone help out a mathematically challenged person please?

is it possible to calculate throw now for the IN76 with those numbers above?

is it similar to the 4805?

"the one who has the most fun wins."
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post #94 of 4269 Old 01-05-2006, 01:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krasmuzik View Post

The SP4805 has had 10b processing since day one thru the entire analog video chain. Just because a trademarked press release features something - does not always mean it is new....

Another case of Krasmuzik FUD?

Did you miss the 10-bit DIGITAL video processing that braindew mentioned?


A projector with Genesis/Faroudja FLI-2310 chip and HDMI input should be able to do 10-bit digital video processing just like DDP3020 ASIC chip and HDMI input in HC3000. I am guessing Pixelworks chip can do the same. I am not sure.
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post #95 of 4269 Old 01-05-2006, 02:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krasmuzik View Post

And I have to wait until reps get back to work after CES.

Lets see how did the SP7205 get cheaper. PixelWorks instead of Faroudja (it had both before). Keeps the DC2 instead of DC3 in SP7210. Lost one of the control jacks. One year warranty instead of two. But you get the UFO case and the HDMI port and 50% better contrast for 10% less lumens. Good tradeoff?

Well presumably the new DMD DC2 is cheaper than the older DMD DC2s...thats a couple bucks. Different color wheel that's better or worse depending on your view of the Brilliant Color white segment.

Yah, probably all in all a good tradeoff.

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post #96 of 4269 Old 01-05-2006, 02:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jandawil View Post

It's a great projector at a great price for those with 9' ceilings or above. Mits is missing out on a big part of the market by their restrictive offset. Hopefully IF will remedy this, and if it's <$2400 even better.

The LG is an odd duck but has lens shift for around the same price. Too bad its not in the US yet. SOMEONE will make one with a usable offset for us folks with low ceiling.

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post #97 of 4269 Old 01-05-2006, 02:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billymac View Post

can someone help out a mathematically challenged person please?

Code:
SP4805    Throw: 1.77:1-2.13:1  Max width:   9'
IN76      Throw: 1.52:1-1.92:1  Max Width:  12' 

For a typical 92" screen (80" wide):

Short throw

SP4805 = 80 x 1.77 = 171.6" = 11.8'
IN76   = 80 x 1.52 = 121.6" = 10.1'

Long throw

SP4805 = 80 x 2.13 = 170.4" = 14.2'
IN76   = 80 x 1.92 = 153.6" = 12.8'

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post #98 of 4269 Old 01-05-2006, 02:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alimentall View Post

Anyway, I'm just saying that this place gets amazingly negative, as though somehow we're "owed" more or something. I just can't find anything negative to say about a $3000 720 DLP 3000:1 contrast projector

I guess it's hard to understand that $3000 is A LOT of money for some people.
This is the low end forum on the board. $3000 for 720p DLP isn't anything new. $2000 for a new model is.
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post #99 of 4269 Old 01-05-2006, 02:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cavu View Post

Code:
SP4805    Throw: 1.77:1-2.13:1  Max width:   9'
IN76      Throw: 1.52:1-1.92:1  Max Width:  12' 

For a typical 92" screen (80" wide):

Short throw

SP4805 = 80 x 1.77 = 171.6" = 11.8'
IN76   = 80 x 1.52 = 121.6" = 10.1'

Long throw

SP4805 = 80 x 2.13 = 170.4" = 14.2'
IN76   = 80 x 1.92 = 153.6" = 12.8'

thanks cavu!!!

so what I'm seeing there is that this has an even shorter throw than the 4805? and if my throw upstairs is 14' give or take, I'm going to have to go with a larger screen than 92"? would a 106" work?

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post #100 of 4269 Old 01-05-2006, 02:44 PM
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so for 106" screen, it would be:

92 x 1.92 = 176.64 = 14.72'

right?!

dang, was hoping i wouldn't have to change screen size. maybe i'll put it downstairs. i don't think 106 will get past the WAF

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post #101 of 4269 Old 01-05-2006, 02:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Septura View Post

I guess it's hard to understand that $3000 is A LOT of money for some people.
This is the low end forum on the board. $3000 for 720p DLP isn't anything new. $2000 for a new model is.

I hear that!!
Unfortunately $3K is WAY out of my budget, but 2K is fine....
I just don't want SDE at 100" size ( 11'), and I don't want any kind of Smoothscreen artificial blurring... I want clarity....
So I am EAGERLY awaiting news on these new units!!

I want MY Cigarettes, MINE Nurse Ratched!!

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post #102 of 4269 Old 01-05-2006, 02:52 PM
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Just talked to ProjectorPeople...they confirmed that the Optoma HD72 is $3999 MSRP...not the $2000 that was reported in the TI news release. So $3000 for HC3000 or IN76 seems more reasonable. Who are we kidding...these new generation price points are locked now (like new computers)...we will be riding $3000-$3500 for each new generation it seems. Sony bringing the HS-51A in at the HS-51 price ($3500) is another good example of that price point. They are going to let Panny, Sanyo, et.al. crowd fight it out for $2000 level which is paramount to grey market products.

Bring on 4K resolution, let's call it Super Duper Highest Definition (SDHD) the first media will be Violet Ray Disc (VRD). I am starting a VRD Forum in my garage(Toshiba and Sony need not apply)
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post #103 of 4269 Old 01-05-2006, 02:54 PM
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Does anyone know when these are supposed to be available for purchase?
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post #104 of 4269 Old 01-05-2006, 03:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by braindew View Post

Just talked to ProjectorPeople...they confirmed that the Optoma HD72 is $3999 MSRP...not the $2000 that was reported in the TI news release. So $3000 for HC3000 or IN76 seems more reasonable. Who are we kidding...these new generation price points are locked now (like new computers)...we will be riding $3000-$3500 for each new generation it seems. Sony bringing the HS-51A in at the HS-51 price ($3500) is another good example of that price point. They are going to let Panny, Sanyo, et.al. crowd fight it out for $2000 level which is paramount to grey market products.

you're not going to be paying $3000 for the IN76. that's msrp and i can tell you, there's a huge gap.

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post #105 of 4269 Old 01-05-2006, 03:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by braindew View Post

Just talked to ProjectorPeople...they confirmed that the Optoma HD72 is $3999 MSRP...not the $2000 that was reported in the TI news release. So $3000 for HC3000 or IN76 seems more reasonable. Who are we kidding...these new generation price points are locked now (like new computers)...we will be riding $3000-$3500 for each new generation it seems. Sony bringing the HS-51A in at the HS-51 price ($3500) is another good example of that price point. They are going to let Panny, Sanyo, et.al. crowd fight it out for $2000 level which is paramount to grey market products.


TI said street for under $2K.

"estimated street price of under $2,000."

I would have expected the MSRP to be lower. Eh...if it gets to Z4 territory I'm happy. Should be interesting to see if TI's prediction is true.

Nigel
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post #106 of 4269 Old 01-05-2006, 05:13 PM
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can anyone confirm if the IN76 will have brilliant color or not? There's no mention in the brochure.
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post #107 of 4269 Old 01-05-2006, 06:17 PM
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Just my 2 cents:

1000 video calibrated lumens, 3000:1 calibrated contrast, pre-calibrated D65, HDMI and M1, less than 20db (I hope), and IF it is less then $3000 (say $2599)...........

It's a steal.

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post #108 of 4269 Old 01-05-2006, 06:46 PM
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OK...I will take it for granted that krasmuzik is right about 10-bit color decoding in 4805 and new IN76(even though I have never seen that before now and have researched for 5 months on this topic...plus the fact that the 4805 has DVI input which is limited to 8 bit max). But, one last question if someone knows:

Will the IN76 have sealed optics? I know the HC3000 from Mits. does, and I am tired of dust blobs.

Bring on 4K resolution, let's call it Super Duper Highest Definition (SDHD) the first media will be Violet Ray Disc (VRD). I am starting a VRD Forum in my garage(Toshiba and Sony need not apply)
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post #109 of 4269 Old 01-05-2006, 07:31 PM
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I think when someone leaked some info briefly on avs a few months ago that the new Infocus did have sealed optics.....but I could be wrong.

But in my own way, I am King. Hail to the King, baby.


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post #110 of 4269 Old 01-05-2006, 08:05 PM
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Someone threw out 20db a few pages ago, no doubt as wishful thinking. I'd expect these to be more in the 30db range and yes, sealed optics for sure. Still not a perfect projector as I'm guessing the offset will be a little large for my needs, no lens shift and I still know nothing about DNX. On the other hand, I'm thinking it will have the famous Infocus D6500 calibration out of the box and the lumens/contrast specs will be a whole lot closer to reality than most other brands.

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post #111 of 4269 Old 01-05-2006, 09:51 PM
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Hi All.

Newbie to PJs and obviously very excited to hear IN76 news from CES. Currently shopping for my first PJ and was considering 7205.

From IN76 specs how do you think will 7205 compare to IN76 in terms of pic quality ? If IN76 street price indeed goes to 2K, how will the price of 7205 be affected ?

Also, from your experience is it a good idea to be early adopter of a new PJ or should wait until they fix all their bugs, etc.

Thanks, Davie.
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post #112 of 4269 Old 01-05-2006, 10:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krasmuzik View Post

That information came from Bob Williams ScreenPlay Engineer himself - you don't have to believe this "biased" Infocus dealer spouting "FUD" if you don't want to. In fact I was telling people the opposite (based on knowledge of the SP7205 design being common) until he corrected me and said they improved the design in typical Infocus fashion - the last one they did is the best. And thus the SP4805 indeed has 10b video controls on even the DVI input (even if the datastream is 8b - the whole point of 10b controls is adjustment flexibility). If Bob Williams said it - it is fact as far as I am concerned - since his team designed the damn thing. I will trust his information over yours any day of the week.

Kras

When I read your earlier post, I searched and searched the "old" 4805 thread for Bob's post on 10 bit controls for you - I could not find it for the life of me. Must have been in another thread.

Do you think that these PJs will have a preset for video dvi? That would be nice - I'm sure you remember the fun of figuring it out. And when do dealers get to purchase their demo models?

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post #113 of 4269 Old 01-05-2006, 10:26 PM
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The noise of infocus projectors is probably one of the biggest complaints about Infocus and I'm willing to bet Infocus will do something about it this time around.

I too remember Bob talking about the 10bit controls on the 4805.

Quote:


Hi All.

Newbie to PJs and obviously very excited to hear IN76 news from CES. Currently shopping for my first PJ and was considering 7205.

From IN76 specs how do you think will 7205 compare to IN76 in terms of pic quality ? If IN76 street price indeed goes to 2K, how will the price of 7205 be affected ?

Also, from your experience is it a good idea to be early adopter of a new PJ or should wait until they fix all their bugs, etc.

Thanks, Davie.

If it's any indication, many 4805 users are still waiting for Infocus to fix a few 4805 bugs, but that's not stopping many satisfied 4805 owners (see the long threads on avs). If anything, you can try waiting a month after it's release, but I'm guessing if you're interested in the IN76 and it works for you, you'll probably jump soon after you begin reading initial impressions (that is, assumming they are good of course). I followed the initial 4805 impressions soon after its release until I could not take it anymore and jumped on it less than a month later.

But in my own way, I am King. Hail to the King, baby.


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post #114 of 4269 Old 01-05-2006, 11:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krasmuzik View Post

That information came from Bob Williams ScreenPlay Engineer himself

I believe this is Bob's original post ....
I just wanted to let everyone know that the Bravo D1 looks very good through DVI into the ScreenPlay 7200 test unit I have in my lab.

It produces the best looking DVD playback I have seen to date.

The Bravo D1 seems to output CCIR 601 standard video which only contains brightness values from 16 to 240, and this is consistent with the mastering of the DVD so this is fine. However, to take advantage of the full contrast ratio of the projector both brightness and contrast need to be adjusted. You can do this by setting brightness to 44 and contrast to 55.

If you are comfortable with the advanced menus, then I suggest instead of using the brightness and contrast control that you use the color offsets and gains. The brightness and contrast controls for the DVI input operate in 8 bits, while the color controls operate in 10 bits. So for the ultimate performance, leave brightness and contrast at 50, 50, and set the color offsets to 39 and the color gains to 66. This should eliminate any contouring due to loss of bit depth.

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[Ed: Settings mentioned for SP7200 only]

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post #115 of 4269 Old 01-06-2006, 08:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krasmuzik View Post

That information came from Bob Williams ScreenPlay Engineer himself...

Well...why did't you say that to begin with (those who have followed Infocus stuff are all familiar with Bob Williams). It is customary to say a statement such as "per Bob Williams of Infocus" when you throw out information that is not advertised.

Quote:
Originally Posted by krasmuzik View Post

I will trust his information over yours any day of the week

Uh...what information did I offer, I was seeking information.

And the quote from Bob Williams is from a 7200 thread...I would not have found that since we were speaking of 4805. But, that still doesn't confirm the Play Big specs...but, like I stated earlier...I will assume it for now. Sealed Optics sounds like another one of those "word of mouth" things...maybe I need to call Infocus to confirm these specs.

Bring on 4K resolution, let's call it Super Duper Highest Definition (SDHD) the first media will be Violet Ray Disc (VRD). I am starting a VRD Forum in my garage(Toshiba and Sony need not apply)
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post #116 of 4269 Old 01-06-2006, 08:42 AM
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While we're at it....
4805 and 10bit
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...46#post5820546

But in my own way, I am King. Hail to the King, baby.


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post #117 of 4269 Old 01-06-2006, 08:58 AM
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Calm down guys. Talk about the new projector line.

Someday maybe I'll actually WATCH my projector...
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post #118 of 4269 Old 01-06-2006, 11:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madpoet View Post

Calm down guys. Talk about the new projector line.

MP - what are your thoughts for a sticky on the new Infocus line (and the Optoma H72 as well)?

Thanks,
Mike
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post #119 of 4269 Old 01-06-2006, 12:13 PM
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If the IN76 street price at $2500.00(from authorized dealers of course) this is going to be a HOT deal.


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post #120 of 4269 Old 01-06-2006, 12:28 PM
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I'm really interested to see how the IN76 turns out. When I upgraded from the X1 to the 4805 I saw a huge jump in PQ. I'm wondering if I'd see the same type of jump if I upgrade to the IN76? I'm not too worried about the resolution difference as that's an obvious jump, but all the other aspects of a picture; color fidelity, contrast, brightness, etc.


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Reply Digital Projectors - Under $3,000 USD MSRP

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