13,611 Hours on an LCD Projctor!! Still looks like NEW!!e - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 28 Old 01-28-2006, 12:17 AM - Thread Starter
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I would like to place several MYTHS regarding LCD projectors to R.I.P. :

1. LCD's "Wear out"

Total Bunk!
I have 13,611 hours on this unit. This is close to TWO
YEARS OF CONTINUOUS USAGE!!! I'm posting this from the projector at 1368 x 768 native resolution, as I use it for PC, SAT, HDTV, Hell ALL entertainment!!

2. The Organic Blue Polarizer will crumble at (X) <LOW> hours.

The TRUTH of the matter is that the organic based blue polarizing filters will get "burnt" beyond cleaning at approx. 8-9,000 hours and require changing, and cost less than a bulb if you have the part #'s and change them yourself. The result will be a "like new unit" (Pink shading where the organic coating is wearing from the heat, when holding the blue polarizer to the light, you will see the burnt area, and it cannot be cleaned :(

(NOT to be mistaken with dust cleaning required on the green polarizer, same pink discoloration symptoms can occur with units with less than 5.000 hours)

Note: As the blue filter is being burnt, you can CLEAN it and see drastic improvement, just don't clean too hard. NO chemicals but use a good lens quality cloth on all polarizer, both input and output polarizer’s.

Remove them and wipe them gently, but NOT to hard. A compressed air dusting bottle won't do it!

Rule of thumb, if less than 5.000 hours, and you have ANY colors on a white output screen, it is MOST LIKELY just dust on the prism, polarizer, or LCD, or unlikely the backside of the LCD.

3. You must have your projector serviced at least every other bulb change.

TRUE, I smoke, and have a very hostile environment for my projector. If I could not open this thing up and clean the many mirrors, lens, LCD's, and polarizer’s, from the inside out using 98% Alcohol and non-dusting type cleansing sticks, I’d HAVE to give up on my projector at the 1/4 life of say 6000 hours MAX!

This accounts for all the “dust blobs†that mess with your viewing pleasure. You might blow them away with compressed air, or do a deep cleaning.


4. All Sony VPL-HS10's are defective and have a shut off problem.

I bought mine from Japan at product release and never had this problem.

5. There were many defective bulbs for HS-10/20.

I am now on bulb number SIX for this projector and NEVER had this issue.

6. The upgrade bug will force me to upgrade, when I'm happy with what I have just by reading AVS.
FALSE, I am still satisfied, and can WOW my guests with my "OLD" projector, BUT I’m tempted knowing I got all I could out of my current system.

7. You will get the same EXTREME long life cycle out of your projector.

FALSE, I have done MANY things to maintain this long product cycle:

A: Frequent filter cleaning and changing (Yes, I paid the $25 and bought the replacement filter with every bulb, and I didn’t wash it with soap to help clog it up and restrict the airflow)

B: I run my projector on LONG duty cycles, Sometimes I fall asleep with it on (Shame on me), but the worst thing you can do is FAST cycle your projector.

Examples of FAST CYCLING:

1. Turn it off and then back on BEFORE the bulb has had a chance to reach room temp. (1 hour) Wait at LEAST 45 minutes if you accidentally shut it off.

2. With this measure, It is best to keep the bulb energized if your watching the projector and plan to leave for a lunch for 1 hour and return and re-energize.

3. I run my projector on a Commercial grade UPS with four 1200 amp hour 12 volt cells. (I work for a Telco and have run my projector through a 6 hour power outage)

4. Never run your projector on a UPS like my previous statement, unless it’s a TRUE sine wave APC-Smart-UPS-3000 series!!

5. NEVER power off the projector with a loss of power! To do so with a power strip is THE WORST THING you can do that is under your control! This causes the bulb to actually get hotter than it is designed to as it cools down, and this is why your fan runs after you shut off the projector.

6. GOOD GOD, NEVER, EVER, THINK about tripping over the power cord while it is running, and plug it back in. and then immediately hitting the power button!!!!
(At the very least you will EXTREMLY-HOT-CYCLE The bulb, and IF it Fires, it may either EXPLODE, or just cause an RED scorching light bulb effect for a 1 second, as it MELTS the reflective coating off of the reflector before it goes back out. IT MAY NEVER FIRE AGAIN…….Or you could be cleaning glass shards from the projector.


Well, I hope this advice from a truly prudent old Sony-HS10 user can help someone else reach what I think? Is the HT record for the MAXIMUM hours on al LCD PROJECTOR?

If you can beat me, I’d like to compare notes, as well as screenshots with the Factory mode showing the hours, as well as the stack of old bulbs. I have mine 
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post #2 of 28 Old 01-28-2006, 12:05 PM
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thats right, show them dlpers
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post #3 of 28 Old 01-28-2006, 01:05 PM
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Scanman0: Your hypothesis on the LCD topic is extremly accurate. Well done.

You are actually the first person I have read a post from who uses a 'back up' power system to prevent the projector from 'hard'shutoff' bulb failure.

We all have power failures where we live so is everyone listening? ;)
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post #4 of 28 Old 01-28-2006, 01:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scanman0
I would like to place several MYTHS regarding LCD projectors to R.I.P. :

1. LCD's "Wear out"...
2. The Organic Blue Polarizer will crumble at (X) <LOW> hours....
4. All Sony VPL-HS10's are defective and have a shut off problem....
5. There were many defective bulbs for HS-10/20....
If we're using a sample of 1 to reach conclusions, than I would like to proclaim that the belief that DLPs can cause headaches and eye fatigue is TOTAL BUNK! I have over 1300 hours logged on a DLP, and not once did I ever get a headache or have eyestrain! :p

Just messing with you. Thanks for the post - lots of good info there. :)
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post #5 of 28 Old 01-28-2006, 04:31 PM
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scanman

I too am still using my HS-10 and have no plans to upgrade...still has that wow factor every time I turn it on. 13000 HRS, WOW....I think I have about 1500hrs (2/2003) and have never had the shut down problem or any problem for that matter.
.
Scanman, how do you access the panels? I have little holes above my 3 panels but I have not a clue on how to remove the metal shield covering them. Any advice?

I still say the HS10 was one of the best purchases I ever made......and it still has a few years left in it. Awesome projector.
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post #6 of 28 Old 01-28-2006, 07:35 PM
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I own LCD-DLP- LCOS machines and love them all in different ways. :)
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post #7 of 28 Old 01-28-2006, 08:09 PM
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Nice to hear about a positive experience after all the negative stuff you read. You're a lucky man, that sounds like a great unit you got, and of course, you took care of your unit as far as cleaning and maintenance goes, so here's an example for the rest of us.
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post #8 of 28 Old 01-28-2006, 08:44 PM
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You're an inspiration to us all ^^. When I finally can afford to get a projector and put together a home theater, I will try my darnedest to follow your shining example of how everyone should treat their projector! I wish more people took as much care as you do, 'cause maybe we'd have less whiny "something's wrong" threads :D.
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post #9 of 28 Old 01-30-2006, 08:40 AM
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13,611 hours of viewing in less than 2years = 18.64 hours per day, everyday. I feel sorry for you and your family.
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post #10 of 28 Old 01-30-2006, 08:54 AM
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How much do the bulbs cost? I wonder if it isn't worth it to just get a new projector every so often when the cost of the bulbs starts to exceed that of the projector.

David Mendicino
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post #11 of 28 Old 01-31-2006, 04:38 PM
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I have over 4000 hours on my LG lcd projector and it still looks great. I changed the first bulb at about 3000 hours even though the "change bulb" warning came up every time I turned it on for about a year.
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post #12 of 28 Old 01-31-2006, 05:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scanman0
5. NEVER power off the projector with a loss of power! To do so with a power strip is THE WORST THING you can do that is under your control! This causes the bulb to actually get hotter than it is designed to as it cools down, and this is why your fan runs after you shut off the projector.
I've heard both ways on this one. I believe Bob Williams of InFocus said that for the 4800 (or maybe it was the 4805) that cutting power was actually the best way as long as it wasn't going to be used for a while. The thinking partially being that the main reason the fan runs after you shut off the projector is because of your #6 (just in case you decide to try to fire it again). I could see heat buildup possibly being a problem after the bulb is off with no fans, but I haven't seen convincing evidence of it. I would think it would have to be someplace other than where the lamp is lit or the reflector on the back as I think they would start getting cooler as soon as the lamp goes off even without a fan.

--Darin

This is the AV Science Forum. Please don't be gullible and please do remember the saying, "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."
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post #13 of 28 Old 01-31-2006, 06:47 PM
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Could you give us some information regarding your lamps? How have they died and why? I´m on my first bulb with Sanyo PLV-Z3. I never power it on more than once a day and watch it for many hours straight. Counter is at ~1500 hours if I remember correctly. No dimming yet.
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post #14 of 28 Old 01-31-2006, 10:09 PM
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On the other side,: where I work they have several LCDs which run 6 hours/day for about 200 days/year, so around 1200 hours/year. After 4 years, 1/2 of them have a yellow cast to the picture and are being replaced. I have no idea how common that is or whether its related to how long the projectors are left on. Some projectors are accidently left on here for 24 hours and I don't know how often that happens; it could easily be an over heating problem at some point.
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post #15 of 28 Old 02-01-2006, 07:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orion456
4. Never run your projector on a UPS like my previous statement, unless it’s a TRUE sine wave APC-Smart-UPS-3000 series!!

A true sine wave backup is not neccessary for a unit utilizing a switching power supply as long as the stepped wave is within the power supply's tolerances.
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post #16 of 28 Old 02-01-2006, 07:52 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scanman0
2. The Organic Blue Polarizer will crumble at (X) <LOW> hours.

The TRUTH of the matter is that the organic based blue polarizing filters will get "burnt" beyond cleaning at approx. 8-9,000 hours and require changing, and cost less than a bulb if you have the part #'s and change them yourself. The result will be a "like new unit"
Now tell us how much it'll cost if you don't have the parts and don't change them yourself as i'm sure most people are like myself and cannot remove circuit boards and clean these things never mind change them..... so what's the real cost to replace ?

I have a Panasonic AE700 and i have just changed the bulb ( no problem ) I opened the back to try and clean the panels and there was no way i was going to even attempt to remove everything necessary just to reach the panels.... I don't have the skill levels or expertise thus my panels were never cleaned........ which is annoying to say the least.
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post #17 of 28 Old 02-02-2006, 09:46 AM
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I have an old APC 500 UPS just for the projector in my setup. Works fine. Granted it'd be better if it was a full-time DC system for zero cutover time, but still, better than nothing. I have power outages all the time, and i'm 5 miles away from 2 power plants. (1 nuke, 1 coal)
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post #18 of 28 Old 02-02-2006, 11:09 AM
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May I also add never let your girlfriend unplug your pj while it's on, then plug it right back in only to have it actulally strike, but not realize it takes a few seconds for the picture to show up, so then turn it off and back on again right away because "she thought she broke it and was worried it wasn't working".

It will damn near give you a heart attack.

And make double sure never to let her do it because for some reason she wanted to plug in Christmas lights in mid january and like pretty much every girl I know doens't think about what's connected to a plug before pulling it.

Monster Gold Plated Optical Cables: http://monstercable.com/productPage.asp?pin=1263

Awesome user review: "Unreal quality. Sounded like I upgraded my speakers." :D
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post #19 of 28 Old 02-03-2006, 09:18 AM
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Haha :) ^
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post #20 of 28 Old 02-03-2006, 09:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MCH
13,611 hours of viewing in less than 2years = 18.64 hours per day, everyday. I feel sorry for you and your family.
I think you misread his post on the point about 2 years....

BTW, my blue polarizer 'only' lasted to about 6000 hours but I didn't do near the upkeep that scanman did :).

Jaime

If you can't say anything kind at least have the decency to be vague...
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post #21 of 28 Old 02-03-2006, 10:05 AM
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Send a message via Yahoo to JDLIVE
Just bought my second replacement bulb for my HS10, still going strong! I'd like to upgrade to something better (and quieter!), but obviously decided to hold off. I'm hoping to go for another 2 years or so and then look at a 1080p upgrade.
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post #22 of 28 Old 02-03-2006, 01:04 PM
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My HS10 is still going strong also with somewhere around 7K hours on it. Sure there have been other better projectors come along - but not better enough to make me pull the trigger. Now I'll just go ahead and wait it out for the <$5K 1080p projector (which I'm confident will be announced within the next 12 months) and probably a <$3.5K 1080p in the next 18 months.

I've gotta say though, the HS10's really been a workhorse and still delivers a nice picture. We're going to have our 3rd (or 4th?) SuperBowl party with it Sunday, and it never fails to awe the crowd.
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post #23 of 28 Old 02-03-2006, 03:32 PM
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Ok, here's a few people who didn't notice color "decay" at 2000 hours. Maybe you should e-mail TI.
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post #24 of 28 Old 03-15-2006, 12:22 PM - Thread Starter
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HOWTO: Replace Blue Polarizers on HS-10/20
I posted this in a long thread with an off topic, so for clarity I thought it would be best to start a new thread.

I have had several PM's asking about the blue polarizer replacement for the Sony VPL-HS10. So, I'll just respond here.

With my current total hours of 14,267, I've seen this workhorse show what is truly capable of.



Please take the time to read:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/show...772#post7320772



you can download the service manual at:

http://www.stevenhightower.net/hs10/ServiceManual.pdf

Yes, I did have to replace both the polarizers.

You have to remove ALL connectors and unscrew and remove the entire C board. Don't worry about marking the connectors as they are all keyed and can only be placed on the board correctly. Be carefull of the headers conncting the C board to the riser boards below it. Refer to diagram 1-2-4 (C-Board Removal)

Be very carefull when unhinging and removing the three ribbon cables from the LCD pannels, as the plastic is VERY brittle on the little snaps that hold the cables in place. I broke one side of one of them and had to use a bit of epoxy to hold it back in place.

After you remove the c board you can remove the polarizers. Remove the screw and you can slide the Blue OUT Polarizer straight up with fine tweezers. (9-885-029-41) $175.36

You can also remove the blue IN Polarizer the same way. (9-885-029-40) $162.00

If you burnt one of them so bad that the blue is weak, you have burnt both of them to the point that they will need to be replaced as a set.

Refer to diagram 4-4-2 (Optics).

To order the parts directly from Sony Parts, call:
1-800-538-7550 Option #1.

Or just place the part #'s in at the Official Sony site and buy online.

https://servicesplus.us.sony.biz/sony-parts.aspx

I called and they only have one polarizer in stock with a 2 week backorder for the other one. They are becoming popular parts with the age of the hs-10/20.

Edit: Good point I should have included:
Quote:
Originally Posted by davmp
One thing of note is that Sony ships the polarizers with a cling film on the polarizer. On one of them that I got, there was just a small air-bubble underneath the film to indicate the film was there. At first, I thought they had shipped me a polarizer with a blemish! The second one had a printed line on the film as well as the bubble and that's when I realized the film was there. Make sure you remove the film from both before putting them in!

-- Dave


Also, to save some coin, you should inspect them before you order. It appears that the outer one failes much worse than the inner one (Closer to the bulb.) I saw damage to both, and demand a great picture. Dave was aible to get away with changing just the outer one. YMMV.
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post #25 of 28 Old 03-15-2006, 01:17 PM
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Wow, incredible!!
Although, for projectors like the AE-900 where the rebates have totaled more than $800, you get to the point of questioning whether you should invest $400 in the price of a bulb that is around 1/3 the cost in the projector. ;) Then of course there is the time you spend with other maintainance issues for an older pj as well.
I say, buy a new pj and enjoy having up to date features and be done with it. ;)

Craig

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post #26 of 28 Old 03-15-2006, 02:41 PM
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I usually go on the 1/3 rule. When the bulb costs 30% or more of the price of a new projector then I upgrade. It usually takes 2-3 years for me to reach the maximum bulb life so the newer technology and better features make it worth while. :)

This or course only applies to projectors which are under 2000$. My ruby has a bulb price which is scary for the amount of hours it is rated for. My panny 900 falls under my category designation.
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post #27 of 28 Old 03-16-2006, 03:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suffolk112000
Wow, incredible!!
Although, for projectors like the AE-900 where the rebates have totaled more than $800, you get to the point of questioning whether you should invest $400 in the price of a bulb that is around 1/3 the cost in the projector. ;) Then of course there is the time you spend with other maintainance issues for an older pj as well.
I say, buy a new pj and enjoy having up to date features and be done with it. ;)

Craig

Well,

I did take all this into account each and every time I bought another bulb, filter, or even the polarizers. You also have to take into account the fact that you will still face the same issue when you place another 3000 hours on the cheaper unit.

Then there is custom mounting already in place, and lets not forget about throw distance. I enjoy the fact that the HS-10 has a LONG throw, and keeps the projector in the back of the room with a short cable to the HTPC.

I thought about getting the HS-51, but cannot justify the expence for a slightly better lcd pannel with a lower resolution. I may even go one more bulb on this projector if nothing fails.

BTW, I'm now up to 14,264 hours of total useage!

Im trying to hold out until I can get a true 1080 native resolution replacement at a price that will place it in THIS forum.

I have run this projector from when it was only avail from the grey market in japan, before sold in the USA.

I meant to say from the 1st post, that I have hours close to two years of continuous usage. Not that I ran it continuously for two years.
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post #28 of 28 Old 04-14-2006, 03:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Just thought I'd bring this thread back to the top.

Ordered ANOTHER bulb. This thing will not die. The colors are still correct, but my bulb is starting to dim.

True to form, it started to dim at about 2,200 hours instead of the 2,800 Hours I was getting with Cinema mode turned on.
It's worth it to me, as I run a filter and loose a bit of lumens there.


Bulb #7 is on the way, directly from Sony parts at $279. Seems the bulb market has softened a bit. Yay!


I now have 14,645 Hours on this beast :cool: :cool:
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