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post #181 of 889 Old 07-17-2006, 02:01 PM
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Rosso_Corsa,

The one year limitation on projector returns is news to me. I recently spoke with an employee at one of the stores and he specifically stated that the only section of the store that limits the time frame of returns is computers which is 6 months.

I wonder if they just recently changed their policy or if it's a Costco.ca policy and it differs from that of the stores?

One year is still very, very generous and nothing to complain about of course.

You can get a local Costco store to refund you money to your debit account if you used a card that they don't support. In other words any card other than Amex or Costco.

I know this because I returned a defective screen recently to one of the local stores in town and I had originally paid by Mastercard online at Costco.ca. The took the screen back at the store and informed me that since they don't support Mastercard, they would refund the funds to my debit card or my Amex card. I chose debit.

This is a handy thing to know for anyone in the same boat as I was that day.

Thanks for the clarification on the coupon book and buying prior to the date. I'll remember that for future reference.

Wayne
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post #182 of 889 Old 07-17-2006, 07:13 PM
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Hello Wayne,

Yes, this is interesting because it's the second time I was told it was 1 year. I suspect, however, that the 1 year policy isn't strict. They only tell us this to discourage rampant abuse, but if you showed up in 2 years with full receipt and documentation, I doubt they would put up too much resistance.

The first time I was told this was over email. Here is the entire transcript of the discussion with the costco online support:

Quote:
Dear Sam,

In response to your e-mail, items are accepted within 1 year, except for
computers/laptops, which is 6 months. Please let me know if you have any
other inquiries.

Thank you for e-mailing costco.ca,

Nadine M.
service@costco.ca


_____

From: IMCReply
Sent: April 6, 2006 1:39 PM
Subject: Re: Return Policy on A/V Receiver [CRE200604060000071910640869]


Hi Nadine,

Thanks for your response.

However, that is slightly ambiguous. What is 'suggested' isn't
necessarily what is 'accepted'.

What is the maximum amount of time before the product will not be
accepted as a return? Is it 6 months for all merchandise, or just for
computers/laptops?

Sam


On 4/6/06, service@costco.ca
> wrote:

Dear Sam,

In response to your e-mail, when returning merchandise, we suggest to
our members to return the item within 30 days. If you have further
inquiries please do not hesitate to reply to this e-mail.

Thank you for e-mailing costco.ca

Nadine M.
>
service@costco.ca

_____

From: IMCReply
Sent: April 5, 2006 11:11 PM
Subject: Re: Return Policy on A/V Receiver [CRE200604060000071910637302]


How long is the return policy for A/V receivers, like the Denon 3805
that's listed for sale on the website?

Sam

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post #183 of 889 Old 07-17-2006, 09:05 PM
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Okay now we know your name is Sam.

You want to know what I think? I believe that Costco doesn't like to put their lifetime warranty policy in writing. As a matter of fact, I remember speaking with a Costco employee several years ago and she basically told me that I'll never find that policy in writing. It's unwritten but they stand behind it.

So they're probably told when answering queries to say 1 year or six months for computers.

Like you said, I don't think anyone would have any trouble returning something if necessary beyond that point. For instance, my new H78 which I just purchased from them has a 2 year warranty. I'd like to think that if something goes wrong that I could just take it in for exchange or refund or upgrade within the two year period rather than sending it in to Optoma for repair.

Wayne
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post #184 of 889 Old 07-17-2006, 09:11 PM
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They probably just quote whatever warranty the product comes with officially. If I recall, the HD6800 only has a 1 year warranty which makes sense why they would only 'officially' accept returns up to that point.

Thanks for doing the detective work Sam, a 1 year return policy still makes me feel warm and fuzzy inside.

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post #185 of 889 Old 07-17-2006, 11:58 PM
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Well - I've not dealt with Costco.ca but here in USA Costco has returned me cash on the two items I bought on line with credit cards.
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post #186 of 889 Old 07-18-2006, 10:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosso_Corsa View Post

Hello Wayne,

Yes, this is interesting because it's the second time I was told it was 1 year. I suspect, however, that the 1 year policy isn't strict. They only tell us this to discourage rampant abuse, but if you showed up in 2 years with full receipt and documentation, I doubt they would put up too much resistance.

The first time I was told this was over email. Here is the entire transcript of the discussion with the costco online support:

Hey Sam, they used to sell the Denon 3805 on the US website? How much?

Al
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post #187 of 889 Old 07-18-2006, 04:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosso_Corsa View Post

Hi guys, my first post here and first venture into FP-land.

Been considering the 6800/ HD72 among others and have been following this thread.

A couple quick questions for owners:

1.) How long is the power cord? I will be floor/ table-mounting and I want to know whether I need a power extension to the projector.

2.) I read that there is a hole in the bottom for a regular tripod screw. Can you confirm this and do you think it's feasible to tripod mount on the floor, using the tripod to adjust the height?

Thanks!

Sam


Power Cord is removable PC type, much longer cords are widely available.
Confirm unit has tripod mount.

As an update ..I received my projector and it came with 92" Greywolf II screen and
Optoma BM2006N Ceiling Mount + 5M DVI Cable.

Costco USA is selling this 92" screen for $249 US (Not available separately at Costco in Canada) and ceiling mount is selling for around $225-$300US at other sites; so this package seems like really good deal. (HD6800 Package at Costco USA includes 106" screen but no mount or cable for $1999 USA)

Spoke with Costco (again!) and confirmed can get $375 refund if within 30 days.

I am really pleased with unit so far!
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post #188 of 889 Old 07-18-2006, 05:15 PM
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sgorven,

Thanks for the update! Keep us posted on how you like it!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Sherwood View Post

Hey Sam, they used to sell the Denon 3805 on the US website? How much?

Al, they even had the 3806. I was *THIS* close to buying it.

If I recall correctly, $1200. A screaming bargain. Keep in mind they're a non-authorized dealer so no official warranty. But their return policy IS thier warranty, so...

I didn't want the 3805 cause it was silver (hate silver) but the 3806 was black.

I've got a Pioneer 1015 that's serving me well so I'm gonna hold off till they get the DD Plus generation of receivers are in.

While I'm planning my placement, how do I decide how high to mount the 92" screen if I am to sit about 12-13 feet away?
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post #189 of 889 Old 07-18-2006, 10:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosso_Corsa View Post

sgorven,

Thanks for the update! Keep us posted on how you like it!



Al, they even had the 3806. I was *THIS* close to buying it.

If I recall correctly, $1200. A screaming bargain. Keep in mind they're a non-authorized dealer so no official warranty. But their return policy IS thier warranty, so...

I didn't want the 3805 cause it was silver (hate silver) but the 3806 was black.

I've got a Pioneer 1015 that's serving me well so I'm gonna hold off till they get the DD Plus generation of receivers are in.

While I'm planning my placement, how do I decide how high to mount the 92" screen if I am to sit about 12-13 feet away?

Sam, yes that would be a great deal!

As for height of the screen at that distance, depends on projector mounting height and seating height. There should bea throe calculator on the Optoma site to determine the offset and mounting distance for the screen size you are planning on.

I like to be looking at about the middle of the screen, others preferred it raised a bit. Do you have FP setup now?

Al
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post #190 of 889 Old 07-18-2006, 11:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Sherwood View Post

Sam, yes that would be a great deal!

As for height of the screen at that distance, depends on projector mounting height and seating height. There should bea throe calculator on the Optoma site to determine the offset and mounting distance for the screen size you are planning on.

I like to be looking at about the middle of the screen, others preferred it raised a bit. Do you have FP setup now?

Al,

I've only ever had RPTVs.

The Optoma is going to be my first ever foray into FP. I'm a little hesitant because the last FP I saw was a DLP business projector at my uncle's house playing 480p onto his peach-coloured wall. He was so enthused by it I told him I liked the picture even though it was utterly ghastly.

But I've also seen the Infocus SP5700 a couple years ago in a properly set up room and it had my jaw dropped. And that was only 576p. From what I gather the HD72 should put out an image even better than that which has me very excited.

I've looked at Optoma's manual but was completely confused by the forumlas. I don't want to relearn my highschool geometry just to figure out the offset!

Their distance calculator on the Optoma website only provides throw distance and says nothing about how high my image would be thrown from the center of the lens.

I think what I'll do is figure out exactly where I want my screen, then place it there (and high enough to clear my center channel speaker, which will now be mounted on a wooden chest).

And because I'm floor/low-table mounting the Optoma, I can figure out from there how many old textbooks I need to stack up to line up the picture. The HD6800 package comes with a ceiling mount but my 7.5 ft ceilings just won't work with it. In the HD72 thread here a guy with a low-profile mount couldn't even get it to work.

It's been two days and costco STILL hasn't shipped the unit. Most places ship on same day! I'm gonna call them tomorrow if I don't see a tracking number after work.

Any other comments on the offset and ideal screen heigh for a 92"? How quickly did your units ship?
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post #191 of 889 Old 07-18-2006, 11:22 PM
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Rosso, you should be pleased! I just jumped from 576P to 720P! No looking back! BIG difference for me..!
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post #192 of 889 Old 07-18-2006, 11:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosso_Corsa View Post

Al,

I've only ever had RPTVs.

The Optoma is going to be my first ever foray into FP. I'm a little hesitant because the last FP I saw was a DLP business projector at my uncle's house playing 480p onto his peach-coloured wall. He was so enthused by it I told him I liked the picture even though it was utterly ghastly.

But I've also seen the Infocus SP5700 a couple years ago in a properly set up room and it had my jaw dropped. And that was only 576p. From what I gather the HD72 should put out an image even better than that which has me very excited.

I've looked at Optoma's manual but was completely confused by the forumlas. I don't want to relearn my highschool geometry just to figure out the offset!

Their distance calculator on the Optoma website only provides throw distance and says nothing about how high my image would be thrown from the center of the lens.

I think what I'll do is figure out exactly where I want my screen, then place it there (and high enough to clear my center channel speaker, which will now be mounted on a wooden chest).

And because I'm floor/low-table mounting the Optoma, I can figure out from there how many old textbooks I need to stack up to line up the picture. The HD6800 package comes with a ceiling mount but my 7.5 ft ceilings just won't work with it. In the HD72 thread here a guy with a low-profile mount couldn't even get it to work.

It's been two days and costco STILL hasn't shipped the unit. Most places ship on same day! I'm gonna call them tomorrow if I don't see a tracking number after work.

Any other comments on the offset and ideal screen heigh for a 92"? How quickly did your units ship?

Sam, your choice of screen size places the projector anywhere between 10.6 and 12.7 feet from the screen. The offset from the center of the lens for this PJ at 12.7 feet is 17.4" and at 10.6 feet 14.5" (assuming my math is correct ), this is based on Optoma's specification for this PJ projecting a 1280x768 (16:10) image: offset=projection distance x 0.114

And as Dave Mack posted, this PJ should impress thoroughly when adjusted properly and projected onto any reasonable screen. Just don't show your uncle, he'll be jealous!

Al
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post #193 of 889 Old 07-19-2006, 08:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Sherwood View Post

Sam, your choice of screen size places the projector anywhere between 10.6 and 12.7 feet from the screen. The offset from the center of the lens for this PJ at 12.7 feet is 17.4" and at 10.6 feet 14.5" (assuming my math is correct ), this is based on Optoma's specification for this PJ projecting a 1280x768 (16:10) image: offset=projection distance x 0.114

And as Dave Mack posted, this PJ should impress thoroughly when adjusted properly and projected onto any reasonable screen. Just don't show your uncle, he'll be jealous!

Fabulous! Al, that was very helpful. Thanks!

I called Costco.ca this morning to pester them about my order. Apparently, they ship right from Optoma in Ontario. My order was sent to them yesterday and it should ship either today or tomorrow. So with any luck, I'll have it early next week.

Just for fun, I ended the call with this conversation:

...
Me: Thanks for the information! You've been very helpful. Just one final thing before I go: I was told that the return policy for items is one year. Is this correct?

Costco rep: Yes, that is indeed correct.

Me: But somewhere in the back of my mind I remember a costco representative telling me there was no time restriction on returns.

Costco rep: Well, we don't have a fixed one year restriction and it would depend on the situation. We look into each situation on a case-by-case basis and assess what we can do to help a member.

Me: I understand. Thank you.



So this further endorses our theory that the 1 year isn't set in stone. They just don't advertise it. Well now we know.

Optoma's warranty for the 6800 lasts only 1 year, so if something happens past that, it's nice to know Costco will be able to help if you ask nicely enough.
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post #194 of 889 Old 07-20-2006, 08:44 PM
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For those that have gotten the package, what kind of mount is it? I have 7.5ft ceilings and using the included 92" screen, will I be able to ceiling mount with the included mount?

Thanks!

Sam
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post #195 of 889 Old 07-21-2006, 10:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sgorven View Post

Power Cord is removable PC type, much longer cords are widely available.
Confirm unit has tripod mount.

As an update ..I received my projector and it came with 92" Greywolf II screen and
Optoma BM2006N Ceiling Mount + 5M DVI Cable.

Costco USA is selling this 92" screen for $249 US (Not available separately at Costco in Canada) and ceiling mount is selling for around $225-$300US at other sites; so this package seems like really good deal. (HD6800 Package at Costco USA includes 106" screen but no mount or cable for $1999 USA)

Spoke with Costco (again!) and confirmed can get $375 refund if within 30 days.

I am really pleased with unit so far!

ANY Rainbow effect!?
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post #196 of 889 Old 07-21-2006, 11:14 AM
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[rant mode on]

Still hasn't shipped. I'm getting antsy. Order placed on Monday and it's Friday and STILL hasn't shipped?! Costco customer service can't tell me anything more than, "soon."

What is taking Optoma so long!?

[rant mode off]
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post #197 of 889 Old 07-21-2006, 12:20 PM
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Rosso, I'd be pissed.

I feel your pain, bud!
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post #198 of 889 Old 07-21-2006, 03:16 PM
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Sam, RELAX man!

Same thing happened to me. I ordered it on a Saturday and it didn't come until a week from the following Monday, 10 days later.

The Costco website says it could take up to 10 days to deliver so everything's cool. I think that's 10 working days too.

As a matter of fact, I called Optoma Canada and spoke to Ryan and he confirmed that they had my order and that it would be shipping out late that week. I was talking to him earlier in the week so it seems that they need to get the order together sometimes. I suspect that when it takes a little longer to deliver, probably the screen has to be specially shipped from California since it's part of the package.

Anyway, hang in there! It's coming.

Wayne
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post #199 of 889 Old 07-21-2006, 09:30 PM
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Does anyone who ordered the HD6800 in Canada know what version of firmware is on their projector? I heard that they had resolved a few issues with the first version that went out.

Thanks.
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post #200 of 889 Old 07-21-2006, 10:01 PM
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Thanks for the assurance, Wayne!
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post #201 of 889 Old 07-29-2006, 12:43 AM
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I ordered my HD6800 from Costco.ca last Tuesday and I still haven't received it. It was shipped a week later this Tuesday...9 business days and still waiting. Looks like Monday will be my lucky day. Too bad, since I was really looking forward to playing with it this weekend.
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post #202 of 889 Old 07-31-2006, 09:17 PM
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It's been a full eleven -- yes, eleven -- business days and I finally have this little bugger in my hands. The delay appears to have been with Optoma themselves as they took almost all of the time waiting to ship my order. UPS was fantastic and delivered as promised. Aborro, you'll get yours soon!

But the aggravation built up from all the waiting was washed away as soon as I came home from work to three boxes. One looked like a laptop case (HD6800, of course), the second a box long enough for a samurai sword (ah, the screen) and the third was a little box labelled 'EP719' (EP719? Isn't that one of their business projectors?!)

That's the box I opened first.

Disappointingly, 'EP719' was not a fortunate mistake and I didn't get a free business projector as an apology for all the waiting. Instead, it held another box with a fresh BERING flush mount and a 5m DVI to DVI cable, as promised.

I destroyed the rest of the boxes with utmost care, revealing the contents:



Ta-Da! The HD6800/72 is so cute I had to hug the little bugger. Several times. The plastic squeaked sincerely, returning my affection.



The standard front 3/4 view. Preferred by photographers of all ages. Works on people, too.



To show you just how small and cute the Optoma is, here it is next to my boxy 1015TX. It looks like a tank by comparison. I felt like I was feeling the little PJ to the big bully.



Darling, time to accessorize! The box had identical items to the HD72. Even the manual is exactly the same. It shows an HD72i on the cover with the Faroudja label. There is no doubt that they are identical projectors, with the exception that the HD68 gets bulbs that are on the lower end of the tolerance for brightness, though even this is unlikely. Why go through the trouble?

So far so good. Everything appears new (not refurb) and accounted for.



Time for the GrayWolf II. Having read most posts on the GrayWolf thread, I've been more than a little hesitant about this screen. People have been getting the incorrect screens (GrayWolf I instead), dents on the case and for one, even dirt and rust all over the product. The QC has been more than sub-par and people were wondering whether Optoma was repackaging refurbs and used items as new. Shameful.

But first impressions are good. The case looks fine (though with multiple minor scratches) but the paint is fresh and there is no obvious sign of dirt or rust. I even got the right version! GWII! Rejoice!

I hug the screen lovingly, even harder than I hugged the 6800. It does not squeak back.

I was just about to break open the champagne when I turned it over and saw this:



My case is bowed! NOOOO!!!! Booooo!!! I take the bottle of champage and swiftly pour it down the toilet.

Shame on Optoma. Add me to the GWII Bum Unit Club.



Bum units make me sad. But I like saying 'bum unit'.

Bum unit.

I want to call Optoma and say to the person who answers, "Hi, I just bought a your GrayWolf II screen and I think I got a bum unit."

This distracts me temporarily untill I decide to hook the DVD player and place the projector on the coffee table, shooting at the screen. Ignition!

First impressions are not good. I put the zoom to max (only 10ft~ away), adjust the focus and throw on Episode II Star Wars. Everything looks wrong and while the image is pretty big, I feel like I am watching my uncle's crummy Toshiba DLP business projector. Motion artifacts. WTF, mate? The picture is so... narrow. I don't remember 2.35:1 being THIS wide.

Then I remember that I had unplugged the DVD player and it must have lost its settings! 5 minutes of fixing later and BOOM, the little Optoma is REALLY in business! I was in 4x3 mode! What a ******! I also fiddle with the user menu settings like the degamma (to film), BrilliantColour (to 4), colour temperature (to 1) and whatever else I remembered from the countless reviews that doubled as bedtime reading over the past 2 weeks.

I have some ambient light but with the exception of the gray blacks, everything looks bright and punchy. The colours look pretty decent, even shooting at my off-white wall. Even with enough ambient light to walk around the room without stepping on other people, the little PJ put out a very watchable picture. Satisfying, even.

This is a good place to talk about my background. The only HDTV I've owned has been a Pansonic 47" PT47WX42 set, so I'm used to the CRT Colour Saturation, contrast and deep deep blacks.

But I got DLP lust pretty quickly. The last time I saw a DLP Front Projector was at the local specialty store, 1.5 years ago where they had the Infocus SP5700 on display in a light-controlled room showing the Fast and the Furious. The picture was surprisingly bright, contrastly and had a very liquid film-like quality. This was NOTHING like the DLP RPTVs I had seen at Best Buy.

I was floored and wanted one, bad. Sadly, they were something like $5k and that was $3k more than I had to spend. Don't forget, the SP5700 was just a 576p!!!

Fast forward 1.5 years later and here I am with an even better machine for less than $1.7k (subtracting the screen, mount, cable and soon-to-be-refunded August rebate). What progress!

Anyway, the screen still isn't up because I'm deciding how high to place it. I tried having the picture nice and high (eye level with near bottom of screen) and it was surprisingly strain-free. Then I lowered it to eye level with the 1/3 from the bottom of the screen (as recommended by most people) and while it was slightly more pleasant, it didn't look as nice with my 7.5 ft walls. This is a 92" image.

It just felt bigger higher up because it filled the wall more evenly. And I didn't have to tilt my head up, only my eyes. I also have more space for the center channel in case I want to mount it higher (I used to have the CC above my RPTV). But on the other hand I know that the lower screen would be less fatiguing to watch over long periods. What do you guys think?

Finally, I got my first taste of Rainbow Effect. I had an image on pause and darted down the look at the remote. Parts of the screen (the whites) flashed with rainbows! All I had to do was move my eyes across the image real fast. I still see very little of it during real material but I can definitely see it if I tried. It was worse sitting up close and worse during high-contrast scenes (as reported). I guess it's just something you have to live with. It's no so bad that it's distracting and I'm pretty certain your brian learns to filter it out. The eyes and brain have amazing information filtering ability. Just try playing Geometry Wars on Xbox 360 to 1million points! That'll teach you to filter out bright lights.

Anyway, Im gonna go play with the new PJ some more and hook up some speakers. I can't believe I watched almost all of SW II with no sound. I'm turning into a professional lip-reader.

More to come...
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post #203 of 889 Old 07-31-2006, 09:29 PM
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Thanks for posting your thoughts, I'll be joining the HD6800 club in a week and it's nice to finally see some pictures of the package. I'd really appreciate some pictures once you get the screen mounted as I'm going to have to deal with 7.5' walls as well. Thanks.

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post #204 of 889 Old 07-31-2006, 10:10 PM
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Interesting thread. I was hoping the coupon would be available in the U.S., but alas, that isn't the case. I bought a pj from Costco and returned it with no problems. I'm sure they make more money on pjs by having such a great policy than they lose by getting returns. That being said, I just bought the HD72 because of the rebate, plus I found a forum member dealer who has a 30 day no risk return policy without the nauseating "restocking" fee. I don't need to be able to return a pj a year later, but I would like to have the ability to install one and watch an hour or two in my setup to make sure I like the image, the noise level, etc. I honestly don't see how dealers who charge a 15-20% "restocking" fee for any return no matter what actually gets business.
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post #205 of 889 Old 07-31-2006, 11:01 PM
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Wow, so there isnt going to be a 300$ off in the USA?

From those pictures I dont see any holes on top for a ceiling mount.... How would a ceiling mount work? Would the hd72 mounts work?
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post #206 of 889 Old 07-31-2006, 11:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TweakGames View Post

Wow, so there isnt going to be a 300$ off in the USA?

From those pictures I dont see any holes on top for a ceiling mount.... How would a ceiling mount work? Would the hd72 mounts work?

That's because the holes are on the bottom, you have to turn your theater upside down... sorry couldn't resist!

The PJ mounts upside down when on the ceiling, then a setting in the menu flips the picture right side up.

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post #207 of 889 Old 07-31-2006, 11:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Sherwood View Post

That's because the holes are on the bottom, you have to turn your theater upside down... sorry couldn't resist!

The PJ mounts upside down when on the ceiling, then a setting in the menu flips the picture right side up.


Ok, thanks, thats what I was thinking just wanted to make sure. :0) Any confirmation if the USA will have 300$ off on the projector?
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post #208 of 889 Old 08-01-2006, 02:40 AM
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I put up the Gray Wolf and watched Monsters Inc in complete darkness.

HOLY MOLY. What a difference. Screens are mandatory.

I can't even describe how stunned I am. This is coming from CRT RPTV. I have never, ever seen DVD this good. I didn't even know DVD could be this smooth, this liquid, this contrasty and punchy and SHARP and 3D.

This is simply amazing and shocking to me to see how far digital FP has gone. This little Optoma is just so BRIGHT and stunning, I've run out of words to describe what I just experienced.

People werent exaggerating when they compare modern FP to HUGE plasma screens. That's what it actually looks like, no hyperbole. To think, this is how far they've come and I can't believe what I paid for this. No way.

I will never buy an RPTV again. It's FP only from now on. Having that image fill the entire wall -- this is what HT is supposed to be like!

Objectively speaking, besides from absolute black level and shadow detail, the Optoma beats my CRT RPTV in every single way. It's sharper, punchier, more contrasty, more fluid, everything. I haven't done a DVE calibration, though and I hope that it'll deepen those blacks. Right now they look gray at best, alot like the blacks on an LCD panel.

I am in utter shock. I suspect I will be even more shocked when I hook up the Xbox 360 tomorrow, along with its 720p movie trailers...
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post #209 of 889 Old 08-01-2006, 07:55 AM
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Good to see you're a happy camper Sam!

Eleven days is one day over their guarantee for delivery. You might want to give Costco an earful about that so that they know Optoma isn't always sending out the product in a timely manner.

Enjoy tweaking your new toy. I'm still pinching myself with my new H78DC3 that I purchased about 6 weeks ago. Still tweaking too.

Wayne
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post #210 of 889 Old 08-01-2006, 09:25 AM
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hold on... The Costco.ca ships the HD6800 with the Optoma GreyWolf screen???
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